Marilyn Manson Sexual Abuse Allegations

[tony.parente]

The Hard Times out here killing it as usual.

[sweeterthan]

All of that was less than 25 years ago.

21 years ago.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say it was his fault. He made a bad choice to work with Warner, and an even worse choice giving him the high profile he did in the misguided cause of rebellion, but that's not a direct line to "at fault for crimes".

you are asking for accountability. that usually means legal justice or social justice.

Good questions.

they are editing him out of the show. is that enough?

as for cancel culture, I get it but I think it depends on the circumstance. Some people deserve it. I do not believe Reznor does but I do think so about Manson. I've never like him. Nothing about him is appealing to me. I've heard countless things about Reznor and there's tons of good and noble shit in there.

[ltrandazzo]

Admittedly, the timeline TR describes is more generous. Yes, MSG for Starfuckers and the video were in 2000, so 21, not 25 years. Even then, I remember the rockiness of their relationship. Music journalism in general has always been hard to navigate because I remember reading weird interviews with some of my favorite bands in the 90s/00s and they would say just the absolute goofiest shit. It's hard to take much of it seriously because it was always hard to tell what was theater and what was them being authentic because you could run into a misquote or embellishment from a writer and the musician chalks it up to "unintentional edginess" or whatever.

Anyway, that's probably beside the point. If you go look at Manson's IG page, Trent's IG page is listed as a follower along with Saul Williams. Is that an endorsement? Does it give weird credence to the quote from '17 that Manson gave about reconciliation? There are tons of rabbit holes to fall into and it's hard to find the truth vs. the fiction.

TR and Brian have had a love/hate relationship for a long time. Even though I consider myself a big fan of his, I don't hold Trent up as a paragon of any type of virtue because the man is flawed just like the rest of us. He's had absolutely horrible experiences, both self-inflicted and not that have shaped him into the person he is today. Everything that he says, even when it's contradictory is ultimately his truth. Maybe the Starfuckers collab was born more out of some weird necessity to grab a headline and get attention, especially since The Fragile was seen by the music industry as a giant flop. Does the two of them teaming up for that mean that they personally reconciled? Who fucking knows?

At the end of the day, Trent knows what his truth is along with anyone else he might have wronged in any way possible. I reserve this attitude in the wake of Me Too with him which is what I've had to apply to a lot of creative folks that I consider or considered myself a fan of - I will always appreciate the work and what it did in that moment. I do not know this person, so if anything comes out about them that would make me view them as less than, then I will do so believing their accusers and letting the facts bear themselves out. Everything else is speculation at this point. Trent having a fuzzy timeline of events does not make him a liar nor does it give credence to what this blue-checked writer on Twitter is saying. What I do know is that several women have come out and given GREAT detail on what Brian Warner put them through and I believe them. If anyone or multiple people come forward to do the same with Trent, I will believe them too. But until then, this is where we are.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Are we sure this twitter person slandering Trent isn't Andrea urban Fox crawling out of her sewer????

[Jinsai]

lol huh..?

Curious to hear what your experience entailed. I've met her on numerous occasions -- at charity events for animal rights, women's rights, children's rights -- and she was one of the nicest, most down-to-earth public figures I've probably ever met in my life. Right up there with Duchovny, who is also super chill..

EDIT: Nevermind, there's no good reason for me to explain it.

[eachpassingphase]

OTEP dropped some thoughts today.

https://www.facebook.com/otepofficia...65414177735131

"Lyndsay used to call our house In the early hours & I was told she hysterical bcz he was on another drug binge, threatening her life, throwing knives at her that stuck in the wall & verbally assaulting her. We offered many times to have her come to mine bcz he would NEVER come face ME with that bullshit (believe it) but sadly she wouldn't leave him. So, my ex would be calm and talk her down until Manson realized she was on the phone and he whoa'd down."

[allegro]

Are we sure this twitter person slandering Trent isn't Andrea urban Fox crawling out of her sewer????

Lol ugh you know that’s supposedly his ex-girlfriend.

[allegro]

EDIT: Nevermind, there's no good reason for me to explain it.

SHE didn’t know the movie but was pissed that you didn’t? I had to Google it, it’s from 1953. Wtf.

OTEP dropped some thoughts today.

https://www.facebook.com/otepofficia...65414177735131

"Lyndsay used to call our house In the early hours & I was told she hysterical bcz he was on another drug binge, threatening her life, throwing knives at her that stuck in the wall & verbally assaulting her. We offered many times to have her come to mine bcz he would NEVER come face ME with that bullshit (believe it) but sadly she wouldn't leave him. So, my ex would be calm and talk her down until Manson realized she was on the phone and he whoa'd down."

This confirms my suspicion: He’s afraid of certain women.

Heads-up to all women around him in the future, for any reason: Make him afraid of you.

Although, having been an ex- trophy wife whose husband directed nearly everything I wore, and when I didn’t he’d get really upset: Have any of us ever seen Rose McGowan wear a horridly ugly mostly-naked trophy dress to any soirée ever again?


As far as analyzing the TR / MM timeline: TR said he expressed his “dislike of Manson as a person and cut ties with him nearly 25 years ago.”

The specificity of “as a person” appears to exclude “as an artist” for a reason.

[Jinsai]

SHE didn’t know the movie but was pissed that you didn’t? I had to Google it, it’s from 1953. Wtf.

Yeah, and then she said in a shitty voice "I don't know where you went to high school, but Julius Ceaser is a play by William Shakespeare." Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah, I'm sure she's adorable with puppies too.

Anyway, I digress.

[botley]

As far as analyzing the TR / MM timeline: TR said he expressed his “dislike of Manson as a person and cut ties with him nearly 25 years ago.”

The specificity of “as a person” appears to exclude “as an artist” for a reason.

Doesn't change the fact that NIN released a DVD containing footage of them singing each others' songs together (with Manson's arm slung around TR like buddies) just 19 years ago. They were both still releasing CDs on the same boutique label imprint that TR started until, what, fifteen years ago? That's not the same as "cut ties", strictly speaking. The statement reads like a hasty attempt to put as much distance between them as possible, but really it's more complicated than we'd all hope.

[Jinsai]

Doesn't change the fact that NIN released a DVD containing footage of them singing each others' songs together (with Manson's arm slung around TR like buddies) just 19 years ago. They were both still releasing CDs on the same boutique label imprint that TR started until, what, fifteen years ago? That's not the same as "cut ties", strictly speaking. The statement reads like a hasty attempt to put as much distance between them as possible, but really it's more complicated than we'd all hope.

I guess
Maybe it's just "and then I started getting back into drugs and let an abusive person back into my life while his world was stalling out." I guess that would be a little more 'complicated' but, it's something I understand and probably not the cleanest way to say "fuck off!!!!!!"

[allegro]

Doesn't change the fact that NIN released a DVD containing footage of them singing each others' songs together (with Manson's arm slung around TR like buddies) just 19 years ago. They were both still releasing CDs on the same boutique label imprint that TR started until, what, fifteen years ago? That's not the same as "cut ties", strictly speaking. The statement reads like a hasty attempt to put as much distance between them as possible, but really it's more complicated than we'd all hope.

Yeah, but business is business. Money is money. Some of that may have been dictated by the label and management, or artistic shit. Or believing in Manson’s shit. TR was sucked into it, too.

But what TR seemed to imply is that he cut personal ties with him; he ain’t hanging out with him.

I agree that in a perfect world you ain’t making money from him, either. But MM was on his label. Kinda hard to remove himself from that.

You’re right in this, as hard as it is hard to accept. Hindsight is 20/20.

NIN had a BDSM attraction, but it also attracted a bunch of stupid macho sadistic assholes who showed up at shows. It’s why I wouldn’t go to any TDS shows. I was living that shit, I didn’t need to pay for it as entertainment. The whole marketing schtick was what begat Manson.

You’re right, it’s like admitting to being a part of white culture. Sure, we can say “oh, no, I believe in civil rights, blah blah blah.” But, like it or not, you contributed to the suppression of black people. And this is the same way; it’s all interconnected and the way to stop it is to see it, seeeeeeee it, admit it, and say I’m not going to be a part of that, instead of denying it and saying it ain’t me, no it ain’t me.

[allegro]

Yeah, and then she said in a shitty voice "I don't know where you went to high school, but Julius Ceaser is a play by William Shakespeare." Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah, I'm sure she's adorable with puppies too.

Anyway, I digress.

Omg, WTF.

Inexcusable.

Did you have your DEGREE IN ENGLISH LITERATURE by this point?

(Duchovny has his, plus a MASTERS in English Lit. Although, didn’t he end up being a ... ahem ... sex addict?)

[Jinsai]

Did you have your DEGREE IN ENGLISH LITERATURE by this point?

(Duchovny has his, plus a MASTERS in English Lit. Although, didn’t he end up being a ... ahem ... sex addict?)

no I’m pretty sure at that point I was studying for it and unsure what to declare. Duchovny came in a few times and seemed like a normal guy. A ton of celebs did. Some were a pain, but most weren’t. She was the worst.

but I digress.

[allegro]

I think it’s pretty fair to judge people by how they treat workers.

How she treated you is unacceptable.

[Wretchedest]

Man I derailed like a page or two of the tool thread in 2019 when I said that a story from my friend about maynard being cruel with concert security basically ruined the band for me.

With Manson... It seems like another case of "everyone knew and no one did anything" right now. It seems like even pretty much regular people knew, like I had a friend who he tried to pick up when she was just 16, and she been telling that story for like 20 years now... Always frustrating to see, no one intervening. The stuff with Evan Rachel Wood is just... So fucking weird and disturbing. Here's hoping in the future this shit gets stopped before it gets out of hand

[WorzelG]

Its so obnoxius that Perez Hilton is tweeted / instagramming stuff about the Manson allegations when he drew 'whore' and 'ho' on a picture of Evan Rachel Wood at the time she was dating him! Absolute toxic masculinity on display there - and again because the media is reporting it, they get away with any of their culpability in all of this. All the magazines with interviews where they saw him as hilarious, will there be any comeback from that?

[Haysey_Draws]

Its so obnoxius that Perez Hilton is tweeted / instagramming stuff about the Manson allegations when he drew 'whore' and 'ho' on a picture of Evan Rachel Wood at the time she was dating him! Absolute toxic masculinity on display there - and again because the media is reporting it, they get away with any of their culpability in all of this. All the magazines with interviews where they saw him as hilarious, will there be any comeback from that?

Wait...Perez Hilton is still a thing?! And they have a following?!

[WorzelG]

Wait...Perez Hilton is still a thing?! And they have a following?!

It would seem so!

[benoïde]

ERW’s IG posts are documenting all this.

On another point, here's an article I found of some interest in the New Yorker.

excerpt : "Thankfully, more contemporary artists are working in good faith to suggest a different way forward, exploding lingering norms and defying notions of what constitutes authenticity or rebellion. The pop producer and performer SOPHIE, an early progenitor of hyper-pop (SOPHIE died tragically last weekend, at age thirty-four), is a wonderful example of generous, nutritive transgression; so is Anohni , once of the band Antony and the Johnsons, who makes stunning, spectral electro-pop that’s fundamentally at odds with old ideas. Orville Peck, Lil Nas X, Kim Petras, Harry Styles—their success proves that singularity and disobedience no longer need to be tied to destruction."

[WorzelG]

There’s another Instagram poster anniejanaabrams who’s put up some disturbing stuff including voice recordings and screenshots. Seems like he was sent over the edge by the Metal Hammer interview which he calls a hatchet job and was threatening to kill himself to this woman. Hmm wouldn’t be a great loss

[Sutekh]

Yes it's true, for gen x/gen y, transgression was tied in with destruction and nihilism. I'm 35 now and some of my staff are in their early 20s - I'm astounded by healthy and positive they are. There really is hope for the future, it's kind of nice to be irrelevant. I think we (X/Y) all were dealing with how the boomers dragged us up, couple of lost generations in that sense. It's interesting that - in the end - millennials may have put an end to Manson's crimes

[WorzelG]

Yes it's true, for gen x/gen y, transgression was tied in with destruction and nihilism. I'm 35 now and some of my staff are in their early 20s - I'm astounded by healthy and positive they are. There really is hope for the future, it's kind of nice to be irrelevant. I think we (X/Y) all were dealing with how the boomers dragged us up, couple of lost generations in that sense. It's interesting that - in the end - millennials may have put an end to Manson's crimes

I've noticed that the younger generations in my family don't drink alcohol anywhere near as much as we do! Which is great, even my brother doesn't as he is 9 years younger than me and a different generation almost and its not like he didn't have terrible examples set by his older sisters at times! (well me specifically!). With the pandemic though and the shit economy that will ensue I hope they can make it intact

[Sutekh]

There’s another Instagram poster anniejanaabrams who’s put up some disturbing stuff including voice recordings and screenshots. Seems like he was sent over the edge by the Metal Hammer interview which he calls a hatchet job and was threatening to kill himself to this woman. Hmm wouldn’t be a great loss

Can't find this one, any links or screenies?

[WorzelG]

Can't find this one, any links or screenies?

I’ve had trouble linking specific Instagram posts here, but this should link to her profile. At this point, it’s getting so bad it actually feels more like revelling in salacious shit than actually doing anything helpful! Think I’m going to bow out of looking up anymore of this shit, life is bad enough lately

https://instagram.com/anniejanaabram...d=4ef8jp0nj8ru

[october_midnight]

Well that's interesting, didn't know she was involved in any way. I know who this person is, have seen her at many a concert back in the day. She lives in Vancouver. Yeesh.

[icklekitty]

Yes it's true, for gen x/gen y, transgression was tied in with destruction and nihilism. I'm 35 now and some of my staff are in their early 20s - I'm astounded by healthy and positive they are. There really is hope for the future, it's kind of nice to be irrelevant. I think we (X/Y) all were dealing with how the boomers dragged us up, couple of lost generations in that sense. It's interesting that - in the end - millennials may have put an end to Manson's crimes

Tangent, but Gen Y and Millenials are the same generation. Current age approx 25-40.

[Sutekh]

Tangent, but Gen Y and Millenials are the same generation. Current age approx 25-40.

Ah right - interesting, as someone in my 30s I feel more akin to gen X than people in their 20s

[Leviathant]

Tangent, but Gen Y and Millenials are the same generation. Current age approx 25-40.

Here I am, 41, still can't identify with a generation.

P.S. Marilyn Manson has always been a terrible person. Glad to see him being exposed to sunlight.

[poinoup]

Got a text from a friend asking if I wanted the book or the "God Is..." on VHS. I said she should go make a buck on eBay with it, some gonad will buy it.