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Thread: Biden 2021 - "Listen, Jack."

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I was referencing the dumbass Q conspiracy that Trump would take over on March 4th.

    It’s great he’s boring. I just wish he and fellow Dems would start pressuring Sinema and Manchin. This is exactly how the Dems will lose in 2022 if they keep foolishly trying to work with Republicans and not uniting for much needed changes.
    No, didn't you hear? That was a leftist/liberal lie because they infiltrated Q. The real real date is March 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by versusreality View Post
    as wacky as the Republicans are, and even as divided as they are, they still seem laser focused to win in 2022. Sadly, I feel because of this, they have a shot. I'm not sensing that urgency from the Dem side.
    Standard operating procedure for the Democrats: make all kinds of noise when they're the minority and then squander it all away when they have the majority doing almost nothing but lip service. They really seem to be controlled opposition at this point.

    But hey, at least we finally have a woman of color involved in ordering drone strikes in the Middle East. #progress #resist

  2. #92
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    Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory - Democrat slogan for years now.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I was referencing the dumbass Q conspiracy that Trump would take over on March 4th.

    It’s great he’s boring. I just wish he and fellow Dems would start pressuring Sinema and Manchin. This is exactly how the Dems will lose in 2022 if they keep foolishly trying to work with Republicans and not uniting for much needed changes.
    They HAVE been pressuring Manchin and Sinema. Manchin wants the Covid relief to end at couples who earn $75k, he thinks that’s “wealthy.” The guy has MILLIONS, but thinks a couple making a combined $75k per year in an urban area are rich and not in need Covid relief. He’s likely not been to a grocery store lately, where he’d see how the price of groceries has risen to RIDICULOUS levels. I hate him. But he is in a state full of Republican voters and he only cares about his own ass. Biden can only pressure so much; the other Senate Democrats and Schumer need to apply the most pressure. Likely this kind: “If you don’t get on board, the DNC won’t give you any campaign money when you run for re-election because you are a DINO.”

    ESPECIALLY regarding HR-1, which is THE most important piece of legislation in our history. If we can’t get that passed, we are toast. We must pass it without the filibuster if necessary, but it MUST pass.

    Unfortunately, the Democrats don’t really control the Senate. They share control and can only control in a few circumstances. They need about 10 more Senate seats for ACTUAL control. 12 if you want to wipe out the Sinema and Manchin bullshit.

    The Senate isn’t the House, they can’t whip votes like in the House.

    ONE vote in the Senate stopped the ACA from being destroyed, and that was from a Republican (John McCain). Even the Republicans can’t always get everyone on board. Seven Republican Senators voted to convict Trump. The Republicans are more divided than Democrats right now.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2021 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    ESPECIALLY regarding HR-1, which is THE most important piece of legislation in our history. If we can’t get that passed, we are toast. We must pass it without the filibuster if necessary, but it MUST pass.
    I've been reading about that, it's all common sense bipartisan stuff. What are republicans talking points on why it's a bad thing? I can't see a single bad thing about any parts of this thing.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by versusreality View Post
    as wacky as the Republicans are, and even as divided as they are, they still seem laser focused to win in 2022. Sadly, I feel because of this, they have a shot. I'm not sensing that urgency from the Dem side.
    Have you not been paying attention? The Democrats have been pushing HR-1 and HR-4. HR-1 won in the House. Biden has been tweeting his support. The Republicans have been losing their fucking minds over this.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ll-what-is-it/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...c78_story.html

    The House late Wednesday passed expansive legislation to create uniform national voting standards, overhaul campaign finance laws and outlaw partisan redistricting, advancing a centerpiece of the Democratic voting rights agenda amid fierce Republican attacks that threaten to stop it cold in the Senate.


    The bill, titled the For the People Act, was given the symbolic designation of H.R. 1 by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), and it largely mirrors a bill passed two years ago in the early weeks of the House Democratic majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    I've been reading about that, it's all common sense bipartisan stuff. What are republicans talking points on why it's a bad thing? I can't see a single bad thing about any parts of this thing.
    There isn’t; they are crooked assholes. And they push this bullshit propaganda that says that millions of people voted by mail using fake addresses. WHICH IS BULLSHIT.

    There is NOTHING in the Constitution about registering to vote or IDs.

    Bottom line is that if more people vote, they lose. So they do everything they possibly can to stop as many as they can from voting. They’ve been doing that for hundreds of years. Suppressing votes is now the only way they can win.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2021 at 01:59 PM.

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    Not really sure where to put this:


    What the hell is wrong with her?

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    What the hell is wrong with her?
    She likely wanted to end the nearly 24-hour debate and get immediate relief to her constituents. (Sen. Ron Johnson made them READ MORE THAN 600 PAGES OF THE BILL IN ORDER TO STALL.)

    Sinema said the Senate should "hold an open debate and amendment process on raising the minimum wage, separate from the COVID-focused reconciliation bill." She's openly supported raising the minimum wage. But, the Senate parliamentarian already said that this is not possible and will require a "sunset" clause if it passes with a simple majority under reconciliation, which means it would not be permanent.

    Angus King voted against it, the only other Independent in the Senate besides Sanders. Angus King went to law school. So did Kirsten Sinema. Bernie Sanders didn't.


    This issue will all be revisited in the future, for sure.


    We also need a bigger fix than just raising the minimum wage. The whole system broke many years ago when people were forced to rely on minimum wage jobs as "careers." We need to get people into better careers. We need to figure out how to do that, so that people get WAY more than minimum wage, with benefits, including sick and vacation pay, a 401K, their education paid for, etc.

    When factory jobs etc. were around, people made good money, could maybe even buy a cottage "up north," put money away for retirement, and you used to even get a pension. Then those factory and manufacturing jobs went away, the "college" requirement came along, and those who couldn't go to college were forced into what's effectively poverty jobs. Nobody will ever be able to support a family in Chicago on $15 per hour. You're lucky you can pay rent in Chicago making $25/hour. A bigger smarter fix is Government-paid job programs or Government-paid trade school programs or tax incentives for employers to pay for their employees' educations, etc. to get people OUT of these jobs, vs. accepting it as a "living wage" which it will NEVER BE.
    Last edited by allegro; Yesterday at 09:26 PM.

  9. #99
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    Bring back the CCC.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    Bring back the CCC.
    And the WPA.

    And the NYA.

    Andrew Yang is right; most of what are minimum wage jobs, now, will no longer exist in the not-too-distant future. Automation will take over the vast majority of those jobs.

    UBI is the future. Something similar to FDR’s New Deal but with education and infrastructure (and not just “green”) is the future. Otherwise, we will have millions of unemployed and unemployable homeless people.

    The truth is that ALL wages have been stagnant for over 40 years, and haven’t kept up with inflation. Most Americans aren’t making wages that are sufficient to pay all the bills plus put money away for their kids’ education or for retirement, no matter their wage, even on fairly decent wages. All wages are relative to the minimum wage, which is “minimum” per the Fair Labor Act of 1938 to prevent sweatshop labor and not to provide a “living wage.” The Federal Government never cared about living wages. If it did, it’d pay us directly.
    Last edited by allegro; Today at 05:08 AM.

  11. #101
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    If Sinema explained why she voted the way that she did, I might understand it, but to give a thumbs down, rather flippintly, and trot out of there like that, she looked like she was in high school. She's in the U.S. Senate ffs.

    She's telling people that 15 bucks an hour isn't possible, while wearing designer clothes and a handbag. I'm sorry, but those optics were terrible and she looked like a huge, out-of-touch asshole.

    Also, Vice President Harris and 50 senators could overrule the parliamentarian
    Last edited by GulDukat; Today at 09:33 AM.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    They HAVE been pressuring Manchin and Sinema. Manchin wants the Covid relief to end at couples who earn $75k, he thinks that’s “wealthy.” The guy has MILLIONS, but thinks a couple making a combined $75k per year in an urban area are rich and not in need Covid relief.
    Ah, I was going to say that 74k for a single income is not altogether a bad cuttoff point if there's going to be one, but maybe I'd be in favor of a gradient scaling towards aid based on need. But 75k for a combined household income... I guess it depends on where you live, but that would barely cover my year's rent when I was living in a single bedroom apartment in West LA.

  13. #103
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    UBI will be just another minimum wage, will keep minimum wage down, will eventually be an insufficient oint, and be used not to find important programs

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    UBI will be just another minimum wage, will keep minimum wage down, will eventually be an insufficient oint, and be used not to find important programs
    I dunno, the wealthy are always getting what amount to handouts but don’t want one single penny going to anyone else. UBI and equitable wages to everyone takes away their wealth growth, so of COURSE they’re against anything like that. Worse yet, they convince a lot of the working class to prop up the elite’s wealth via fear that the elite may MOVE and take all the wealth and jobs “somewhere else.” Yeah, right, they ain’t going anywhere, they CAN’T! But their propaganda game is strong.

    Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. UBI has a snowball’s chance in hell in any of our lifetimes.

    When I was working for my Dad in high school, the minimum wage was $2.65 per hour, in 1978.

    In 1979, it went to $2.90/hour.

    In 1980, it went to $3.10/hour.

    In 1981, it went to $3.35/hour.

    It didn’t go up again until 1990, to $3.80.

    Trust me, I was making minimum wage until 1985, and then just above minimum after that, and it wasn’t ANYWHERE NEAR a “living wage.”

    I had friends who worked for Chrysler in entry-level Union jobs and they were making $8.50/hour.

    In 1986, I had to live in a ghetto and see armed robberies around my flat all the time because I had such shitty wages. And things haven’t changed much in overall wage growth in this country in 40 years. Except now the American Corporate College System suckers people into hundreds of thousands of permanent debt in a shell game of poverty avoidance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Ah, I was going to say that 74k for a single income is not altogether a bad cuttoff point if there's going to be one, but maybe I'd be in favor of a gradient scaling towards aid based on need. But 75k for a combined household income... I guess it depends on where you live, but that would barely cover my year's rent when I was living in a single bedroom apartment in West LA.
    Exactly.

    This $15/hour “living wage?” That GROSS wages, so $31,200/year for a 40-hour week. But by the time you deduct FICA and Federal and State taxes in all big cities, you have about 75% of that left. So that’s $23,400, or $1,950/month.

    The average rent in Chicago is $1,800/month. Who can live on an extra $150/month for “everything else?” Cell phone, electric bill, transportation, healthcare, food, etc.

    If you make $25/hour and work 40 hours/month, you’d gross $52k and net about $39k, that’s $3,250/month.

    But if your rent is $1,800/month, that leaves $1,450/month for “everything else.” And that can go FAST. You’re one medical disaster from homelessness.

    HUD considers $31,850 for a single wage as “very low income” in Chicago:

    https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/...ome_limits.pdf
    Last edited by allegro; Today at 06:41 PM.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    If Sinema explained why she voted the way that she did, I might understand it, but to give a thumbs down, rather flippintly, and trot out of there like that, she looked like she was in high school. She's in the U.S. Senate ffs.
    The thought out there is that it was kind of a John McCain thing. She’s from Arizona. John McCain voted thumbs-down solely on procedural basis, and so did Sinema.


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