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Thread: Biden 2021 - "Listen, Jack."

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I was referencing the dumbass Q conspiracy that Trump would take over on March 4th.

    It’s great he’s boring. I just wish he and fellow Dems would start pressuring Sinema and Manchin. This is exactly how the Dems will lose in 2022 if they keep foolishly trying to work with Republicans and not uniting for much needed changes.
    No, didn't you hear? That was a leftist/liberal lie because they infiltrated Q. The real real date is March 20.

    Quote Originally Posted by versusreality View Post
    as wacky as the Republicans are, and even as divided as they are, they still seem laser focused to win in 2022. Sadly, I feel because of this, they have a shot. I'm not sensing that urgency from the Dem side.
    Standard operating procedure for the Democrats: make all kinds of noise when they're the minority and then squander it all away when they have the majority doing almost nothing but lip service. They really seem to be controlled opposition at this point.

    But hey, at least we finally have a woman of color involved in ordering drone strikes in the Middle East. #progress #resist

  2. #92
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    Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory - Democrat slogan for years now.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    I was referencing the dumbass Q conspiracy that Trump would take over on March 4th.

    It’s great he’s boring. I just wish he and fellow Dems would start pressuring Sinema and Manchin. This is exactly how the Dems will lose in 2022 if they keep foolishly trying to work with Republicans and not uniting for much needed changes.
    They HAVE been pressuring Manchin and Sinema. Manchin wants the Covid relief to end at couples who earn $75k, he thinks that’s “wealthy.” The guy has MILLIONS, but thinks a couple making a combined $75k per year in an urban area are rich and not in need Covid relief. He’s likely not been to a grocery store lately, where he’d see how the price of groceries has risen to RIDICULOUS levels. I hate him. But he is in a state full of Republican voters and he only cares about his own ass. Biden can only pressure so much; the other Senate Democrats and Schumer need to apply the most pressure. Likely this kind: “If you don’t get on board, the DNC won’t give you any campaign money when you run for re-election because you are a DINO.”

    ESPECIALLY regarding HR-1, which is THE most important piece of legislation in our history. If we can’t get that passed, we are toast. We must pass it without the filibuster if necessary, but it MUST pass.

    Unfortunately, the Democrats don’t really control the Senate. They share control and can only control in a few circumstances. They need about 10 more Senate seats for ACTUAL control. 12 if you want to wipe out the Sinema and Manchin bullshit.

    The Senate isn’t the House, they can’t whip votes like in the House.

    ONE vote in the Senate stopped the ACA from being destroyed, and that was from a Republican (John McCain). Even the Republicans can’t always get everyone on board. Seven Republican Senators voted to convict Trump. The Republicans are more divided than Democrats right now.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2021 at 12:10 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    ESPECIALLY regarding HR-1, which is THE most important piece of legislation in our history. If we can’t get that passed, we are toast. We must pass it without the filibuster if necessary, but it MUST pass.
    I've been reading about that, it's all common sense bipartisan stuff. What are republicans talking points on why it's a bad thing? I can't see a single bad thing about any parts of this thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by versusreality View Post
    as wacky as the Republicans are, and even as divided as they are, they still seem laser focused to win in 2022. Sadly, I feel because of this, they have a shot. I'm not sensing that urgency from the Dem side.
    Have you not been paying attention? The Democrats have been pushing HR-1 and HR-4. HR-1 won in the House. Biden has been tweeting his support. The Republicans have been losing their fucking minds over this.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ll-what-is-it/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...c78_story.html

    The House late Wednesday passed expansive legislation to create uniform national voting standards, overhaul campaign finance laws and outlaw partisan redistricting, advancing a centerpiece of the Democratic voting rights agenda amid fierce Republican attacks that threaten to stop it cold in the Senate.


    The bill, titled the For the People Act, was given the symbolic designation of H.R. 1 by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), and it largely mirrors a bill passed two years ago in the early weeks of the House Democratic majority.

    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    I've been reading about that, it's all common sense bipartisan stuff. What are republicans talking points on why it's a bad thing? I can't see a single bad thing about any parts of this thing.
    There isn’t; they are crooked assholes. And they push this bullshit propaganda that says that millions of people voted by mail using fake addresses. WHICH IS BULLSHIT.

    There is NOTHING in the Constitution about registering to vote or IDs.

    Bottom line is that if more people vote, they lose. So they do everything they possibly can to stop as many as they can from voting. They’ve been doing that for hundreds of years. Suppressing votes is now the only way they can win.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-05-2021 at 12:59 PM.

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    Not really sure where to put this:


    What the hell is wrong with her?

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    What the hell is wrong with her?
    She likely wanted to end the nearly 24-hour debate and get immediate relief to her constituents. (Sen. Ron Johnson made them READ MORE THAN 600 PAGES OF THE BILL IN ORDER TO STALL.)

    Sinema said the Senate should "hold an open debate and amendment process on raising the minimum wage, separate from the COVID-focused reconciliation bill." She's openly supported raising the minimum wage. But, the Senate parliamentarian already said that this is not possible and will require a "sunset" clause if it passes with a simple majority under reconciliation, which means it would not be permanent.

    Angus King voted against it, the only other Independent in the Senate besides Sanders. Angus King went to law school. So did Kirsten Sinema. Bernie Sanders didn't.


    This issue will all be revisited in the future, for sure.


    We also need a bigger fix than just raising the minimum wage. The whole system broke many years ago when people were forced to rely on minimum wage jobs as "careers." We need to get people into better careers. We need to figure out how to do that, so that people get WAY more than minimum wage, with benefits, including sick and vacation pay, a 401K, their education paid for, etc.

    When factory jobs etc. were around, people made good money, could maybe even buy a cottage "up north," put money away for retirement, and you used to even get a pension. Then those factory and manufacturing jobs went away, the "college" requirement came along, and those who couldn't go to college were forced into what's effectively poverty jobs. Nobody will ever be able to support a family in Chicago on $15 per hour. You're lucky you can pay rent in Chicago making $25/hour. A bigger smarter fix is Government-paid job programs or Government-paid trade school programs or tax incentives for employers to pay for their employees' educations, etc. to get people OUT of these jobs, vs. accepting it as a "living wage" which it will NEVER BE.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-06-2021 at 08:26 PM.

  9. #99
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    Bring back the CCC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    Bring back the CCC.
    And the WPA.

    And the NYA.

    Andrew Yang is right; most of what are minimum wage jobs, now, will no longer exist in the not-too-distant future. Automation will take over the vast majority of those jobs.

    UBI is the future. Something similar to FDR’s New Deal but with education and infrastructure (and not just “green”) is the future. Otherwise, we will have millions of unemployed and unemployable homeless people.

    The truth is that ALL wages have been stagnant for over 40 years, and haven’t kept up with inflation. Most Americans aren’t making wages that are sufficient to pay all the bills plus put money away for their kids’ education or for retirement, no matter their wage, even on fairly decent wages. All wages are relative to the minimum wage, which is “minimum” per the Fair Labor Act of 1938 to prevent sweatshop labor and not to provide a “living wage.” The Federal Government never cared about living wages. If it did, it’d pay us directly.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-07-2021 at 04:08 AM.

  11. #101
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    If Sinema explained why she voted the way that she did, I might understand it, but to give a thumbs down, rather flippintly, and trot out of there like that, she looked like she was in high school. She's in the U.S. Senate ffs.

    She's telling people that 15 bucks an hour isn't possible, while wearing designer clothes and a handbag. I'm sorry, but those optics were terrible and she looked like a huge, out-of-touch asshole.

    Also, Vice President Harris and 50 senators could overrule the parliamentarian
    Last edited by GulDukat; 03-07-2021 at 08:33 AM.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    They HAVE been pressuring Manchin and Sinema. Manchin wants the Covid relief to end at couples who earn $75k, he thinks that’s “wealthy.” The guy has MILLIONS, but thinks a couple making a combined $75k per year in an urban area are rich and not in need Covid relief.
    Ah, I was going to say that 74k for a single income is not altogether a bad cuttoff point if there's going to be one, but maybe I'd be in favor of a gradient scaling towards aid based on need. But 75k for a combined household income... I guess it depends on where you live, but that would barely cover my year's rent when I was living in a single bedroom apartment in West LA.

  13. #103
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    UBI will be just another minimum wage, will keep minimum wage down, will eventually be an insufficient oint, and be used not to find important programs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    UBI will be just another minimum wage, will keep minimum wage down, will eventually be an insufficient oint, and be used not to find important programs
    I dunno, the wealthy are always getting what amount to handouts but don’t want one single penny going to anyone else. UBI and equitable wages to everyone takes away their wealth growth, so of COURSE they’re against anything like that. Worse yet, they convince a lot of the working class to prop up the elite’s wealth via fear that the elite may MOVE and take all the wealth and jobs “somewhere else.” Yeah, right, they ain’t going anywhere, they CAN’T! But their propaganda game is strong.

    Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. UBI has a snowball’s chance in hell in any of our lifetimes.

    When I was working for my Dad in high school, the minimum wage was $2.65 per hour, in 1978.

    In 1979, it went to $2.90/hour.

    In 1980, it went to $3.10/hour.

    In 1981, it went to $3.35/hour.

    It didn’t go up again until 1990, to $3.80.

    Even then, minimum wage wasn’t ANYWHERE NEAR a “living wage.”

    I had friends who worked for Chrysler in entry-level Union jobs and they were making $8.50/hour. Even that wasn’t a living wage.

    In 1986, I had to live in a ghetto and see armed robberies around my flat all the time because I had such shitty wages. And things haven’t changed much in overall wage growth in this country in 40 years. Except now the American Corporate College System suckers people into hundreds of thousands of permanent debt in a shell game of poverty avoidance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Ah, I was going to say that 74k for a single income is not altogether a bad cuttoff point if there's going to be one, but maybe I'd be in favor of a gradient scaling towards aid based on need. But 75k for a combined household income... I guess it depends on where you live, but that would barely cover my year's rent when I was living in a single bedroom apartment in West LA.
    Exactly.

    This $15/hour “living wage?” That GROSS wages, so $31,200/year for a 40-hour week. But by the time you deduct FICA and Federal and State taxes in all big cities, you have about 75% of that left. So that’s $23,400, or $1,950/month.

    The average rent in Chicago is $1,800/month. Who can live on an extra $150/month for “everything else?” Cell phone, electric bill, transportation, healthcare, food, etc.

    If you make $25/hour and work 40 hours/month, you’d gross $52k and net about $39k, that’s $3,250/month.

    But if your rent is $1,800/month, that leaves $1,450/month for “everything else.” And that can go FAST. You’re one medical disaster from homelessness.

    HUD considers $31,850 for a single wage as “very low income” in Chicago:

    https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/...ome_limits.pdf
    Last edited by allegro; 03-10-2021 at 11:01 PM.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    If Sinema explained why she voted the way that she did, I might understand it, but to give a thumbs down, rather flippintly, and trot out of there like that, she looked like she was in high school. She's in the U.S. Senate ffs.
    The thought out there is that it was kind of a John McCain thing. She’s from Arizona. John McCain voted thumbs-down solely on procedural basis, and so did Sinema.


  16. #106
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    Yeah, I mean, dramatics aside, she voted the way she did and thereby let you know what she's about. Same with Manchin. Manchin is not a liberal - not even CLOSE. There's a part in that Woodward book where Trump is whining with McConnell about how he wants to stay cool with Manchin because he's his buddy.

    Fuck Joe Manchin. He's not fooling anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Yeah, I mean, dramatics aside, she voted the way she did and thereby let you know what she's about. Same with Manchin. Manchin is not a liberal - not even CLOSE. There's a part in that Woodward book where Trump is whining with McConnell about how he wants to stay cool with Manchin because he's his buddy.

    Fuck Joe Manchin. He's not fooling anyone.
    Manchin is in WEST VIRGINIA. It’s a fucking MIRACLE he was even ELECTED. His ass in on the line in 2024.

    Now Manchin is saying (as of like 10 hours ago) that he’s considering eliminating the filibuster.

    Which says to me that Manchin’s tea leaves are saying he’s toast in 2024. (Everyone else’s tea leaves say he is TOAST.)

    Sinema isn’t against raising the minimum wage; she’s just against doing it this way.

    Soooooooo ... the PROBLEM is that Republicans across the country are introducing legislation that will effectively block Democrats from voting. Kelly and Warnock are up for re-election in 2022. Warnock butt is really on the line. Georgia is not reliable.

    This means that unless HR-1 and HR-4 are passed, it’s likely that the Republicans will take control of the Senate and House in 2022 and will maintain that control for the unforeseeable future. Once in power, they will pass legislation banning mail-in voting. They will pass Federal legislation requiring IDs for voting. All of what they do will insure that the Democrats will never be in control of Congress ever again

    Any minimum wage legislation would be immediately reversed.

    This is not hyperbole.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-08-2021 at 12:38 PM.

  18. #108
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    ok...so anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by GulDukat View Post
    If Sinema explained why she voted the way that she did, I might understand it, but to give a thumbs down, rather flippintly, and trot out of there like that, she looked like she was in high school. She's in the U.S. Senate ffs.

    She's telling people that 15 bucks an hour isn't possible, while wearing designer clothes and a handbag. I'm sorry, but those optics were terrible and she looked like a huge, out-of-touch asshole.

    Also, Vice President Harris and 50 senators could overrule the parliamentarian
    She gave some bullshit reason afterwards about rules, and reconciliation, and how it shouldn't be included. As if that justifies it, or as if that's the real reason. It's called "seizing the moment". It's called wielding your power. It's called delivering on campaign promises. You think casual voters give a shit about the Senate rules? Meanwhile we have 2014 tweets from her demanding the minimum wage be raised. Totally bought off hypocrite. Her little curtsy act shows that her real reason was to give a big fuck you to the left, and to show her donors how much she is willing to be their tool. Just like Manchin & every other corporatist that voted against it. The two pieces of shit from Delaware that voted against it are widely known as Biden's mouthpieces in the Senate, so this was their way of showing Biden isn't really for it either. Harris proving that she'll just get in line too, but we knew that. At least we all now know where these people stand, and that none of them deserve an ounce of support.



    Biden & the Dems chances in 2022 & 2024 sinking rapidly. Leave it to the centrist shitheel Dems to always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You simply had to deliver on campaign promises. Promises you made just a few weeks ago! Instead, in simplistic terms that non-political people will take away from this:

    - some people that got checks from Trump will not be getting checks from you

    - you're prolly not going put your name on the checks that do go out. Yes it's crass, but who cares? People are stupid, and it worked for Trump (studies show he would have lost even worse if not for the stimulus checks). It's called raw power. Wield it.

    - you're reneging on the minimum wage campaign promise & there's no chance of it ever being brought up again in the Senate unless they fully remove the filibuster, and not just toy with it in some manner so they can pass HR-1.

    - 5 minutes into your admin you're already bombing brown people that low info voters, non-political types, leftists & conservatives have all made it clear we want you to stop and get the fuck out of the Mid East. They may have killed 1 US contractor. So we kill dozens of them. Yeah, seems fair and seems like what your voters want you to do.

    That child tax credit is their only hope for success in two years at this point. Let's see if they regroup and do more that will actually translate into voters sticking with them.

    PS. Biden's full throated support for the Amazon union push in Alabama was amazing. I couldn't believe he stuck his neck out that much. He should still go there in person imo.

  19. #109
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    Manchin knows he’s screwed but that’s his fence sitting to blame. Sure he hails from a republican stronghold, but it means nothing if he wins and then votes with republicans. I hate this RINO DINO thing, because it just further polarizes this situation, and really in my mind overcoming that polarized partisan divide is THE MOST important thing we need to work towards... but THE LAST route to that reconciling point is going to bloom with kissing Joe Manchin’s shrewd political ass.

    Honestly, at this point, we probably would find better luck hoping that Manchin’s republican replacement might secretly harbor some progressive ideas boiling in the background. Manchin is a mole/plant in the Democratic Party. With Manchin, you’re not going to be surprised. The guy is a piece of shit, and emblematic of everything wrong with American politics.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 03-08-2021 at 06:55 AM.

  20. #110
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    Minor point - Manchin and Sinema are both up in 2024, not 2022.

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    And it’s worth noting, even if it’s draining that we’re stuck till then, but there’s the optimistic side of me that is convinced we can possibly trick Manchin into throwing his buddy Trump under the bus to save his shitty political career, and I can smile while I bask in the general tears.

    I’m an optimist

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    Minor point - Manchin and Sinema are both up in 2024, not 2022.
    I knew Sinema was up in 2024. Thanks on Manchin, although that’s still too long.

    Kelly is likely to win his seat again in 2022, but Warnock? Georgia lawmakers are doing everything they can to make sure that does not happen. It will only take ONE seat for Democrats to lose the Senate majority. The House Democrats only have a 10-seat advantage; they used to have a 36-seat advantage.

    I’m not an optimist. Republicans have cheated far too many times to stay in power, they have amped this up, they aren’t going down. They will risk blowing out the Democratic Republic if necessary, they’ve made that clear.

    Sinema used to be full-blown progressive, but when she got to the U.S. Senate she became a centrist “negotiator” that they call a “chess player” and she refuses to change so it is what it is. She has been censored for not voting along party lines, she doesn’t care. The Democrats have a bigger chance of Manchin caving on the filibuster than Sinema. Forget it. She won’t do it. She’s always said she wouldn’t, she never said she would. The end. And with the odds of the Senate and House losing their majority right now, getting rid of that filibuster would be pretty damned handy to the Republicans once they’re back in power. Because they will be. Sooner than later.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-08-2021 at 12:41 PM.

  23. #113
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    I think circumventing the 60 vote threshold on the filibuster would do a lot of the good that filibuster removal itself would do, but I also think it likely that this is pre-fight posturing.

    Democrats are targeting voting rights next, and (unlike the stimulus) it’s legislation that Republicans desperately want to prevent. Democrats can talk about removing the filibuster all they want; Republicans know they won’t do it. But Joe Manchin going on TV and saying he’s open to reforming it? That looks a lot more like some thing that could be followed through on.

    They’re trying to scare Republicans away from filibustering a potential voting rights bill by showing them how they’d respond to that. If Rs don’t threaten or attempt to filibuster the voting rights bill, I suspect all this talk will go away.
    Dude is pretty good with analysis and I think he's on the money here.

    That said Rs are also big on 'kill your own" so who can say.

  24. #114
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    Passing thought I had on Biden's vaccine program. I'm thinking it's a huge investment in Merck/ J&J to provide for the US, but then after see profit when the US becomes a solid source for COVID vaccines. This also creates jobs. If this comes to fruition, this could put the US back on the world stage in a good light, and might even help our economy. It's just a hopeful idea. I'm not an economist.

  25. #115
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    The higher education portion of the Covid Relief bill made any education debt forgiveness over the next 5 years tax free. (Typically, debt forgiveness is treated as income.)

  26. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The higher education portion of the Covid Relief bill made any education debt forgiveness over the next 5 years tax free. (Typically, debt forgiveness is treated as income.)
    Dooooooooooooo it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Dooooooooooooo it!
    A lot of people already GET education debt forgiveness, like through PSLF. Or if you’re a teacher. Or if you’re totally and permanently disabled. Etc.

    But, yeah, if that OTHER one happens ...
    Last edited by allegro; 03-11-2021 at 06:01 PM.

  28. #118
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    ARRRRRRRRG.... come on Biden, I know you've got "bigger things to worry about," and everything is super screwed up right now, but the optics with the firing of white house employees for former pot history or failing a drug test is just bad optics. You can't honestly tell me that marijuana prohibition is in the cards here. It's pretty much done, so don't mess everything up by backing that horse at this juncture. Don't lose potheads here, because I swear, if you do, guess what the Republicans are gonna throw in as a side offering in 2024? They're gonna be all "libertarian" about it, and the democrats are gonna look old and lame if they push a cagey stance like this for four years.

  29. #119
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    WTF is going on here w/ Republicans trying to coerce Biden into having a live debate with Putin? What exactly would the debate be about?
    Matt Gaetz should pretty much just resign. The whole comparison to Rocky IV, but "the American would lose?!" That is crazy.

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    if they love Putin so much they should marry him.

    which would get them killed because Russia don't play that...but is that any great loss?

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