thninchnails: hurt (stained) and heresy ep (fan made remixes)

[katara]

What Danny Hyde did for Uncoiled/Recoiled is pretty good. I like the remixes. However, it's obviously a cash grab, and he still hasn't admitted that it's fake. He pretty much just took some master tapes he had in a shoebox, moved some faders around and called it a day. Even I put more effort into this project. The difference is his name and affiliation with the band, which means he gets a mention on nin.com and distribution from a record label. Oh, and the thread for his fan remixes gets to stay on the main board.

Hot take!

This is fact. The Uncoiled/Recoiled remixes were produced after Danny was contacted in 2012 about various rumoured unreleased Coil remixes (which never existed).
I'd say the only music actually from the time were the short remixes of Gave Up done for Young Americans. Those were only on Uncoiled, are in various states of completion, and tbh aren't all that interesting, being short edits of an already-released remix.

You presented this as something potentially official; a remix EP of TDS songs from the Watchmen universe but to compare this with Saigon; there was no discernible way to figure out that this was fan made or not because... the remixes had great production value and did some neat things. So, unlike Saigon, it was really hard to tell if this was official or not until the bandcamp link got pulled (I wasn't involved with Saigon in any way, but knowing that it mentioned needing an EDS filter and the fact that the file was glitchy noise with a high quality audio recording of another show wrapped in made it clear that this was something for fun and 0% official). A lot of folks know bandcamp as a site where you can pay artists directly so the fact that this was featured on there gave it a sense of legitimacy, never mind the fact that I got text messages from old board friends asking me if this was real or not. You even engaged with people as a fellow consumer of this instead of rightfully taking credit for the cool thing that you did. That's confusing!

I actually thought it was very obvious it was false from the start. Bad quality artwork (I couldn't secure anything better), mega links, and no official notice on nin.com were telltale signs, or so I assumed.
When people started treating it as the real deal, I just went along for the ride.

I've definitely made some mistakes here. My apologies to anyone I duped.

[ItsJustDave]

A ton of research went into making each of these EPs. I contacted multiple people who worked with NIN previously (Charlie Clouser, Russell Mills, etc), getting permission to use samples and art, asking questions about sample sources, and so on.

I know who you didn’t ask for permission...

[Leviathant]

Just to address it since I got the @ -- I have been hands off w/r/t these two releases, aside from joining conversations with the mods and admins about the topic. For better or for worse, I avoid shouldering the entire burden of operating things that I otherwise kind of head-up, I'm sure many thoughtful paragraphs can be written about whether that's a positive use of communal resources or a lazy abdication of responsibility, or even an abuse of other people's time. I wasn't particularly bothered about them, but I did receive a notable amount of concerned questions, and I think that literally everyone else who's a mod or admin wasn't keen on what was going on here. One of the big reasons why I've always encouraged a small plethora of admins is so that no one person makes all the decisions.

re: Saigon, NINLive told me about this idea they had, and upon hearing about it, on my own accord I made the 'tape' overnight, to go with this other thing that was already being put out. I haven't made any big announcements of "IT WAS ME" from social media accounts, but I've said as much in threads on Reddit and ETS and Facebook. I was inspired rather heavily by the three nonsensical noise tracks that had been uploaded to nin.com/fragile back in 1999, which were later revealed to have been put up there specifically to occupy the time of people who were poking around at the server trying to find 'hidden' stuff.

So I guess one difference between what I did and what you did is that you tried to make something that sounded good, and I tried to make something that needlessly frustrated people. I guess you could extrapolate that further - fast forward ten years, and at best, the Saigon clip might get a mention in an obscure "REMEMBER LIFE BEFORE THE APOCALYPSE" blog. But these two EPs blur the lines just enough that you might end up seeing someone earning money off the bootleg market with them - arguably similar to what happened with Uncoiled/Recoiled. Additionally, sharing these on major platforms puts you in theoretically dangerous waters w/r/t intellectual property law, whereas ninlive/saigon was entirely self-hosted on a niche site that's not built into searchable music marketplaces.

Anyhow, those are some thoughts about the comparison you made. I feel like I'm pretty selective about who I burden with Admin permissions on this board, and I'll readily stand by the decisions they make. There's a lot of discussion that goes into actions like this, and no singular one of us has to approve or deny moderation actions. I'm always impressed at how thoughtful the team is when approaching moderation. It's much more thoughtful than I am in a lot of cases when I swing the banhammer or edit a post or split up and move threads - and that's a good thing.

[botley]

I actually thought it was very obvious it was false from the start. Bad quality artwork (I couldn't secure anything better), mega links, and no official notice on nin.com were telltale signs, or so I assumed.

That's not the fucking point, though, is it? If you assume an identity that isn't yours, and create a second account for yourself (bit of a no-no on most forums) then you're creating a different framework than if, posting as yourself, you had said "whoa, I found all this stuff on a hard drive I got at an auction/buried in the woods/blah, blah, blah" or whatever. If you're talking about an alternate-reality version of NIN, build some alternate space around it, beyond just starting an anonymous handle for yourself taken from the liner notes of Watchmen Vol. 3 that leaves people questioning whether the people who wrote that thing are attached to it. I don't remember much about TOTOM's roll-out of Strobe Light beyond just "this is fun, these tracks are funny" but it didn't for a moment cross my mind that the creator was attached to NIN, regardless of what section of the forum it lived in.

[katara]

Thank you, everyone who said nice things about my work.

[ItsJustDave]

Thank you, everyone who said nice things about my work.

I think the work is great, it’s the presentation that’s left me sour. As has been said before, you should have accepted ownership of this from the start.

I hope that you continue down this path and properly bring this piece of fan fiction to whatever conclusion you had originally planned, but do it under your name.

[sweeterthan]

we can't have nice things

passive aggression instead of open discussion is why YOU can’t have “nice things”.

ETA:
@katara chose to remove the remixes themselves. if there are no remixes, why have a thread or a duplicate account? that’s all that really happened. i’m not sure what katara wants from me or the admins here but everyone likes the music and encouraged them to make more. i was willing to discuss it privately with @katara but they were not responsive to me in any way.

edit2: the remixes have been uploaded. thread unlocked.

for posterity's sake, I uploaded both the EP's to archive.org and credited @katara as the creator: https://archive.org/details/thninchnails

enjoy.

[zeegrizzle]

These remixes rock so fuking much

[mauro995]

I hope we can still hear that second Hurt disc.

[piggy]

I hope we can still hear that second Hurt disc.

Yasss. The remixes are VERY cool.

[nmitchell86]

I for one think these are dope as fuck, thank you TNINs! As far as all the drama over this actually be fan made... So what, who cares? It's kinda' fun being stupid on the NINternet and feeding into the joke. I for one, am glad this came out, I needed a distraction, an escape from reality and all that is 2020. If you think about it, this is really no different than the kid over in the market place with the sweet spiral pins that he's giving away at cost (not making profit.) Fan made shit to celebrate why we are all actually here is pretty awesome.

[spahn]

I for one think these are dope as fuck, thank you TNINs! As far as all the drama over this actually be fan made... So what, who cares? It's kinda' fun being stupid on the NINternet and feeding into the joke. I for one, am glad this came out, I needed a distraction, an escape from reality and all that is 2020. If you think about it, this is really no different than the kid over in the market place with the sweet spiral pins that he's giving away at cost (not making profit.) Fan made shit to celebrate why we are all actually here is pretty awesome.

totally agree with this statement but i think the only issue is, don't try to come off as TR/AR. when this was released, i contacted some folks to inquire to the validity of the release, since it legit did look like something that may be released from the NIN camp.other than that, keep remixing, creating and sharing. these remixes are great as is that TDS pin!

[zeegrizzle]

I hope we can still hear that second Hurt disc.

If there is a second Hurt disc I might lose my mind lol. Would love to hear that!

[eversonpoe]

I finally listened to these. Great work, @katara! Thank you!

yeah i finally listened while i drove to/from the grocery store today and i like this new one even more than the Heresy EP (which i loved). some of the rhythmic choices with the vocal phrasing in the "burn" remix made my brain twitch a bit, but everything else is flawless. the "big man with a gun" remix was especially incredible, and the "hurt" remix with peter murphy's vocals actually made me like hurt again, which i haven't for a while...

[Tumnayar]

I enjoyed these, but can't seem to get the files downloaded correctly to listen to them on my computer, anyone else having this issue?

[ParaGun]

@katara great work, they are very enjoyable and indeed on par with official releases from that era. Keep up the good work! I also liked the mystification around the release.

[eversonpoe]

I enjoyed these, but can't seem to get the files downloaded correctly to listen to them on my computer, anyone else having this issue?

what format are you downloading? what OS are you using / what file extractor?

[stlkr]

I think big man with a gun sound better on katara remixes than original on TDS
::quickly ducks undet the desk to avoid flying objects::

[Tumnayar]

what format are you downloading? what OS are you using / what file extractor?

Downloading the direct files using Windows 10 and Foobar music player, nothing opens when I try to listen to it.

[piggy]

Downloading the direct files using Windows 10 and Foobar music player, nothing opens when I try to listen to it.

The files on archive.org are in M4A format, and it looks like that's not compatible with Foobar. M4A should be compatible with just about everything else, though.

[stlkr]

The files on archive.org are in M4A format, and it looks like that's not compatible with Foobar. M4A should be compatible with just about everything else, though.

they run on Android FOOBAR without problem. For Windows, try installing this http://www.cccp-project.net/
Let me know if this helped.

[TheBang]

The files on archive.org are in M4A format, and it looks like that's not compatible with Foobar.

ALAC files are natively supported on foobar

[piggy]

I don't use Foobar. I was basing that on a cursory Google search. Sorry.

[adamsrib]

Does anyone still have these in mp3 format? The archive files are m4a for some reason. Thanks.

[TheBang]

They’re lossless ALAC format, so they can be transcoded to whatever format you want without unnecessary quality loss.

[totom]

As you mentioned me, I will make the effort to listen to this.

False identities and hidden contents have a real importance in NIN world, so this is relevant, even before listening to one second of it, just as a concept and by the way it's released.

[barkhammer]

Would love to see the third instalment of this series show up sometime....

[totom]

I dig it.

What has @totom been up to lately? ;-)

Not much.

A bunch of projects that didn't go very far beyond a few ideas or just the initial concept, including one that's supposed to focus on NIN/TR-AR more peaceful output (Still, Ghosts, soundtracks...).

Maybe a "Bored of the pigs" EP like I made one with "Closer to Bored", focused on March of the Pigs.

Plus a few My Chemical Romance mashups lately, including some of them unreleased.

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