David Bowie

[fillow]

This cover? Are you fucking kidding me?

[burnmotherfucker!]

What's that sound? Money leaving my pocket

[chuckrh]

What's that sound? Money leaving my pocket

David the Merciless from beyond the grave!

[botley]

There is also an expanded version of Toy coming in January — a whole extra disc of alternative mixes, and another with 'Unplugged and Somewhat Slightly Electric' takes!

This is interesting for me, because there have already been several 'alternate' mixes out there on the leaked version and the B-sides from Heathen etc.

[paul_guyet]

Wow. SO massively bummed and underwhelmed by all this. Did I spend $750 on this thing that massively bums and underwhelms me? Yes. Because fuck you. But they barely scratched the surface of, to me, Bowie's most interesting years. They could have remastered the IAOA EP, they could have included the incredible Beck remixes of "Seven" (both the good one and the absofuckinglutely bizarre one), they could have done ONE new mix of ANY of these albums like they've done with, what, every other box set so far?! This isn't a box set for Bowie fans, it's a box set for people who think Bowie stopped making music after "Let's Dance".
But hey...check out the new "Low" beer koozies! Nothing says "let's celebrate perhaps the most challenging entry in Bowie's 'Berlin trilogy' than keepin' yer brewski cold! FUHBALL!

[chuckrh]

Wow. SO massively bummed and underwhelmed by all this. Did I spend $750 on this thing that massively bums and underwhelms me? Yes. Because fuck you. But they barely scratched the surface of, to me, Bowie's most interesting years. They could have remastered the IAOA EP, they could have included the incredible Beck remixes of "Seven" (both the good one and the absofuckinglutely bizarre one), they could have done ONE new mix of ANY of these albums like they've done with, what, every other box set so far?! This isn't a box set for Bowie fans, it's a box set for people who think Bowie stopped making music after "Let's Dance".
But hey...check out the new "Low" beer koozies! Nothing says "let's celebrate perhaps the most challenging entry in Bowie's 'Berlin trilogy' than keepin' yer brewski cold! FUHBALL!

My Bowie Stylophone arrived a few days ago. Cool toy. Bought in a moment of weakness.

[Toadflax]

Yikes on that price; I didn't buy the previous box sets, so I didn't realize they were this much.

It's frustrating, because (as is the case with many NIN fans), this is the Bowie era that's most special to me. If it weren't for the Outside & Hours re-issues from a few years ago, I would be salivating at this, but having gotten those back then, it makes this set a bit less attractive. So basically my conundrum is do I buy this or just buy the albums I'm lacking piecemeal when they're released individually? Tricky!

[botley]

Yikes on that price; I didn't buy the previous box sets, so I didn't realize they were this much.

They weren't! Vinyl prices have shot up every year since the reissue program started in 2015, as demand continues to go up, and manufacturing capacity has basically flatlined.

It's frustrating, because (as is the case with many NIN fans), this is the Bowie era that's most special to me. If it weren't for the Outside & Hours re-issues from a few years ago, I would be salivating at this, but having gotten those back then, it makes this set a bit less attractive. So basically my conundrum is do I buy this or just buy the albums I'm lacking piecemeal when they're released individually? Tricky!

Oh if you are willing to wait, you can definitely pick up the versions of Black Tie, Buddha & Earthling from this box when they are sold separately for much cheaper next year, probably around $30–$40 each.

That 6x10" Toy:Box vinyl is not looking to be cheap either, unfortunately. I may double dip, however, and get the CD version of that in addition to the big vinyl box. I think the art is awesome! The Curious Case of Bowie Button...

[Toadflax]

Oh if you are willing to wait, you can definitely pick up the versions of Black Tie, Buddha & Earthling from this box when they are sold separately for much cheaper next year, probably around $30–$40 each.

I know... buuuut I'm still probably gonna get this.

[burnmotherfucker!]

With the past sets, for the most part I thought the sound was improved a lot with the new remasters and I loved the new mixes some of the albums got along the way. But with this era, I've always thought they got the sound right the first go around. Especially when it comes to Outside, Earthling, and Heathen. It'll be interesting to see how much they tinker with the sound with these.

[botley]

With the past sets, for the most part I thought the sound was improved a lot with the new remasters and I loved the new mixes some of the albums got along the way. But with this era, I've always thought they got the sound right the first go around. Especially when it comes to Outside, Earthling, and Heathen. It'll be interesting to see how much they tinker with the sound with these.

Yeah, I am wondering that too. I don't expect there will be a lot of tinkering, maybe they've added little more compression to bring earlier recordings (like Black Tie White Noise, which we know Nile Rodgers was working on remastering) into line with the sound of the later ones. It gets tricky in this era, because the original masters are (I assume) largely standard-def digital to begin with, so there's not going to be a huge difference in fidelity — EXCEPT, perhaps, on the vinyl pressings, where spreading out the material over more real estate and improving on lacquer-cutting choices will hopefully make a big difference.

[burnmotherfucker!]

Yeah, I am wondering that too. I don't expect there will be a lot of tinkering, maybe they've added little more compression to bring earlier recordings (like Black Tie White Noise, which we know Nile Rodgers was working on remastering) into line with the sound of the later ones. It gets tricky in this era, because the original masters are (I assume) largely standard-def digital to begin with, so there's not going to be a huge difference in fidelity — EXCEPT, perhaps, on the vinyl pressings, where spreading out the material over more real estate and improving on lacquer-cutting choices will hopefully make a big difference.

Black Tie White Noise is one I would love to see get a fresh new sound. I was way late to my Bowie fandom but at this point I have basically been able to connect with all of his records with the exception of a few. BTWN is on that list and so is Hours so I'm looking forward to see if that changes. The rest of the 90s stuff is, for me, up there with Ziggy, Low, and basically all his great records as some of his best work. Still blows my mind how consistent his discography is over such a long period of time without getting repetitious or boring. Even the worst records of the 80s have tracks I love. And the remixed Never Let Me down really brought out some better ideas that were hiding in there. I don't expect that kind of miracle with the 90s stuff but I'm ready to hear it. Excited about the RE:Call discs too as I've really enjoyed the ones up until now.

[Toadflax]

Yeah, I am wondering that too. I don't expect there will be a lot of tinkering, maybe they've added little more compression to bring earlier recordings (like Black Tie White Noise, which we know Nile Rodgers was working on remastering) into line with the sound of the later ones.

I'm not an audiophile like you guys, but the title track of BTWN is definitely something that always feels flat and quiet to me when it comes on a playlist next to other stuff, so I'd definitely be interested in hearing a new mix.

[burnmotherfucker!]

I'm not an audiophile like you guys, but the title track of BTWN is definitely something that always feels flat and quiet to me when it comes on a playlist next to other stuff, so I'd definitely be interested in hearing a new mix.

I wouldn't really consider myself an audiophile either, not sure I even have good enough hearing to be one. But with some of those early Bowie records, they really sounded tiny. Most of the remasters and mixes thus far have been improvements if you ask me. They are fuller and louder without being overly compressed so they sound good in a playlist or mix next to modern stuff. Hunky Dory and even Ziggy still are a bit too thin but it may just be the nature of those recordings. Everything Visconti has remixed has been good I think, his Space Odyssey mix is the only one I bother with these days and his Lodger was also an improvement. The new Station to Station was much improved. And it certainly doesn't take an audiophile to spot the difference between Never Let Me Down and Never Let Me Down 2018. So I'm for as much of these remasters and especially remixes as we can get.

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter as much and albums could still have a huge amount of dynamic range. Just one album a time and a volume knob is all you'd need. But if you care about playlists and mixtapes and such it really is necessary to bring things up to modern standards otherwise like you said it would just feel flat and quiet when it comes up in a mix alongside other stuff.

[chuckrh]

Black Tie White Noise is one I would love to see get a fresh new sound. I was way late to my Bowie fandom but at this point I have basically been able to connect with all of his records with the exception of a few. BTWN is on that list and so is Hours so I'm looking forward to see if that changes. The rest of the 90s stuff is, for me, up there with Ziggy, Low, and basically all his great records as some of his best work. Still blows my mind how consistent his discography is over such a long period of time without getting repetitious or boring. Even the worst records of the 80s have tracks I love. And the remixed Never Let Me down really brought out some better ideas that were hiding in there. I don't expect that kind of miracle with the 90s stuff but I'm ready to hear it. Excited about the RE:Call discs too as I've really enjoyed the ones up until now.

Hours is brilliant. The songwriting is top notch along with the performances.

[botley]

Looking a little bit closer at the track list for Re:Call 5, I notice they didn't choose to include many remixes this time (understandable, as there were a LOT of them in this era and it's already 4 discs of LPs). That means we don't get to hear a remastered version of the full-length NIN remix of "I'm Afraid of Americans" (of course, the single edit version of it is included), nor the Reznor "Alt. Mix" for "The Heart's Filthy Lesson". I wonder if those will get another reissue, perhaps as picture disc singles?

[chuckrh]

Looking a little bit closer at the track list for Re:Call 5, I notice they didn't choose to include many remixes this time (understandable, as there were a LOT of them in this era and it's already 4 discs of LPs). That means we don't get to hear a remastered version of the full-length NIN remix of "I'm Afraid of Americans" (of course, the single edit version of it is included), nor the Reznor "Alt. Mix" for "The Heart's Filthy Lesson". I wonder if those will get another reissue, perhaps as picture disc singles?

A standalone deluxe package of Outside would be most welcome. That record was way ahead of it's time. Still one of the best shows (out of literally hundreds) that I've ever seen. Bowie doing "Hurt" still gives me shivers.

[Toadflax]

Looking a little bit closer at the track list for Re:Call 5, I notice they didn't choose to include many remixes this time (understandable, as there were a LOT of them in this era and it's already 4 discs of LPs). That means we don't get to hear a remastered version of the full-length NIN remix of "I'm Afraid of Americans" (of course, the single edit version of it is included), nor the Reznor "Alt. Mix" for "The Heart's Filthy Lesson". I wonder if those will get another reissue, perhaps as picture disc singles?

Yeah, it's unfortunate for NIN fans that Reznor's contribution to those tracks isn't getting much of a focus in this set. As someone mentioned, the inclusion of an IAOA EP would be amazing. But as you said, it would be nice if they came out as supplemental releases.

Man, this is was such a formative time for me with music in general but especially with Bowie. Outside was this dark, weird, NIN-esque thing that remains one of if not my favorite Bowie album. Then Earthling had more direct NIN involvement while also being this excellent standalone electronica thing in Bowie's career. Those solidified my Bowie love, after which Hours, Heathen, and Reality all hit home for me in a big bad way, especially Heathen, which in some ways felt like an aesthetic follow-up to Outside.

I also started getting into classic Bowie at that point, especially Let's Dance, Ziggy, and Low, but where most Bowie fans got into him through those earlier albums, it was this era that really sparked my love for the man and his music.

[elevenism]

@Toadflax , Outside may well be my favorite album of all time, by anyone, and Heathen is definitely up there.

But so, ok: here's the reason I'm posting. I've always had a feeling that there was more to Blackstar: maybe an entire second half, that was intended to be released in the future...I was thinking 2021 or 2026. I don't think I've ever mentioned this publicly.

I was looking at the Bowie discography on Wikipedia today, while grumbling to my wife how much it disgusts me that Toy wasn't considered "good enough to release" during Bowie's LIFE, much to his dismay, but now it's coming out as some expensive deluxe set so ANOTHER record company can make money off of completionist fans, but that's not the point.

The POINT is that, under "unreleased albums," there is an entry for "post Blackstar album."

The notes say, and I'm paraphrasing, that Bowie recorded at least five MORE "demos," according to Visconti, thinking that he had a few more months to live.
I read that and thought, OH, SHIT. What if I'm RIGHT?

That being said, we already got No Plan. Is that what No Plan is? I don't think so, though. Doesn't No Plan contain a couple of songs from Lazarus?

So. Five demos. Five could ACTUALLY be seven. And, how far along were these demos? ARE they even really just demos, or are they finished?

The bottom line, here, is that I've always had this feeling that Bowie recorded another album during the Blackstar sessions, to be released five or ten years into the future.

And if "post Blackstar album" is not the same as No Plan, well...

I dream of something like that.

[Toadflax]

I've always had this feeling that Bowie recorded another album during the Blackstar sessions, to be released five or ten years into the future.

I mean, I doubt this is the case, but if anything could top Cohen and Bowie recording albums chronicling their own deaths, it would be recording an album to be released years into the future.

[fillow]

I mean, I doubt this is the case, but if anything could top Cohen and Bowie recording albums chronicling their own deaths, it would be recording an album to be released years into the future.

You know, recording a whole another album in complete secrecy and then instructing Visconti and everyone else who played on it to keep their mouth shut would be just like Bowie. I will not be surprised to see a new record out of nowhere come 2026.

[Toadflax]

You know, recording a whole another album in complete secrecy and then instructing Visconti and everyone else who played on it to keep their mouth shut would be just like Bowie. I will not be surprised to see a new record out of nowhere come 2026.

Let's be sure to switch on our TVs to channel two around that time.

[paul_guyet]

I don't know about a whole new album (as incredible and Bowie as that would be), but once the Lazarus soundtrack came out, I made a playlist integrating the three new Bowie tracks and it feels like the real/full/true Blackstar to me. Seven tracks always felt a bit sparse.

[Erneuert]

Random question… with that shelved “Toy” album, why was that the title of the album but the song itself is called “Toy (Your Turn To Drive)”? And what does/did the title “Toy” stand for anyway?

@elevenism - do you know the answer to this? Love Heathen.

[burnmotherfucker!]

I don't know about a whole new album (as incredible and Bowie as that would be), but once the Lazarus soundtrack came out, I made a playlist integrating the three new Bowie tracks and it feels like the real/full/true Blackstar to me. Seven tracks always felt a bit sparse.

I did the same thing. I didn't really plan it but those 10 tracks are the album for me now. I know they were supposed to be for the stage production or something right? But I'm kind of surprised they weren't considered for the album. No Plan fits in especially well. Either version, 7 tracks or 10, its one of my favorite albums of all time.

[Toadflax]

I don't know about a whole new album (as incredible and Bowie as that would be), but once the Lazarus soundtrack came out, I made a playlist integrating the three new Bowie tracks and it feels like the real/full/true Blackstar to me. Seven tracks always felt a bit sparse.

Nice. How did you order the tracks?

[paul_guyet]

Nice. How did you order the tracks?

1. Blackstar
2. 'Tis A Pity
3. Lazarus
4. Sue
5. No Plan
6. Girl Loves Me
7. Killing A Little Time
8. When I Met You
9. Dollar Days
10. I Can't Give Everything Away

Sometimes I'll throw in the Farewell mix at the end if I feel like breaking down completely.

I find this doesn't disturb the flow of the album and actually enhancing the whole thing.

[paul_guyet]

I did the same thing. I didn't really plan it but those 10 tracks are the album for me now. I know they were supposed to be for the stage production or something right? But I'm kind of surprised they weren't considered for the album. No Plan fits in especially well. Either version, 7 tracks or 10, its one of my favorite albums of all time.

So, APPARENTLY the three tracks were written for the stage show (which I saw THE DAY before he died), but I don't know if I believe that. They fit PERFECTLY in the running order of the album.
And it's become one of my favorites as well. The song "Blackstar" is one of my all time favorite Bowie tracks.

[chuckrh]

So, APPARENTLY the three tracks were written for the stage show (which I saw THE DAY before he died), but I don't know if I believe that. They fit PERFECTLY in the running order of the album.
And it's become one of my favorites as well. The song "Blackstar" is one of my all time favorite Bowie tracks.

The video is the stuff of dreams & nightmares. Haunting.

[elevenism]

@elevenism - do you know the answer to this? Love Heathen.

Dude, I've wondered for a long time.

And, here's my best guess:
Toy was mostly meant to be comprised of songs that Bowie, aka JONESY, wrote when he was really young.

I think it's meant to refer to youth.