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  1. #1
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    With Teeth: Tentative Sequence

    UPDATE: this file upload to archive.org is faked and not from the actual CD (which is probably real). See discussion further down the thread

    --------------------------------------


    So, I don't think I missed a discussion about this, but if so, someone please point me towards it.

    That "With Teeth (Tentative Sequence 12.23.04)" internal record label advance CD was posted two months ago, I guess:
    https://archive.org/details/withteet...quence12.23.04

    No one noticed? 2007 NIN ARG fans are ashamed to be in the same fandom as you!

    Anyway, it seems to check out. The auction closed on 1/24. If it was mailed by Amoeba on 1/25, that means the auction winner probably received it by 1/28, the same date it was uploaded to archive.org. I thought it might be a fake upload, because the cover art uploaded to archive.org is just a cropped version of the eBay cover image. But as we delve into the audio content below, we see it must be genuine.

    1. Every Day is Exactly the Same 3:51 - It appears to be identical to "Every Day is Exactly the Same (Edit)" from a promo CD, rather than the album version.

    2. Getting Smaller Every Day 3:39 - It appears to be the same as the album version, except without segues at the beginning and end of the track.

    3. Only 4:45 - This is what cemented for me that this was genuine. Starting at 4:05, it has a different vocal ending, never heard before AFAIK (these lyrics were on the lyrics poster). Vocal effects missing at 2:55

    4. The Hand That Feeds 3:37 - Different intro before the vocals come in.

    5. Cages 5:01 - This one seems farthest from the album version in terms of mixing and mastering. It has the full unsegued intro (as previously heard on the Instrumental version). The falsetto outro (starting at 4:23) is missing the piano, and is slightly different at the very end (because it was modified when the piano was added).

    I haven't done a full A-B comparison on all the tracks, so there may be additional subtle differences (like the missing vocal effect on Only) that I missed. Anyone else find any differences?

  2. #2
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    Fuck me, this is amazing.

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    With Teeth: Unfinished 11.30.04

    This one had interesting enough differences. I can only imagine what's on the 2-disc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post


    With Teeth: Unfinished 11.30.04

    This one had interesting enough differences. I can only imagine what's on the 2-disc.
    Do certain people have this one? yeah i really want that disc 2, i bet the first disc is just early versions of songs but disc 2 is stuff we have never heard before and i wonder how different those versions of not so pretty now and non entity are, this one needs to leak!

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    https://mobile.twitter.com/rob_sheri...107755008?s=21

    Rob Sheridan on the origin of the disc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    So, I don't think I missed a discussion about this, but if so, someone please point me towards it.

    That "With Teeth (Tentative Sequence 12.23.04)" internal record label advance CD was posted two months ago, I guess:
    https://archive.org/details/withteet...quence12.23.04

    No one noticed? 2007 NIN ARG fans are ashamed to be in the same fandom as you!
    I downloaded it then. I also posted about it around that time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninlive View Post
    I downloaded it then. I also posted about it around that time.
    You didn't tell us that you found a download for it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    You didn't tell us that you found a download for it!
    LOL my bad!!!! I thought it was common knowledge.

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    The fact that this was just sitting on archive.org for months without anyone noticing is hilarious to me.

    But I'm glad it's actually out for us to parse now. If only that other one would pop up somewhere...

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    This is amazing, thank you for pointing it out!

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    This could be fake. Apparently the Only vocals were included with the multitracks? I never got those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    This could be fake. Apparently the Only vocals were included with the multitracks? I never got those.
    Yeah, they were, but that doesn’t mean TR didn’t initially use them in the demo. Plus Rob saying he recognises it means it must be authentic.

    We really, really need that second disc uploaded. Plus a demo of “Home”? Yes, please! More hounding Rob on Twitter, folks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erneuert View Post
    Yeah, they were, but that doesn’t mean TR didn’t initially use them in the demo. Plus Rob saying he recognises it means it must be authentic.

    We really, really need that second disc uploaded. Plus a demo of “Home”? Yes, please! More hounding Rob on Twitter, folks.
    Rob said he recognized the disc / packaging in the picture. I don't think there's been a direct, confirmed link between that photo and the songs that were uploaded. I think that's where the uncertainty lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    This could be fake.
    Yeah, I'm also not sure about EDIETS. Why would this 2004 sampler include a radio edit of a track which wasn't a single until 2006? Doesn't make any sense.

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    Now that I've actually listened through, the fact that EDIETS is just the edit from the promo CD seems off. Why would the demo be shorter than the album version, and match up exactly with a random edit from a promo?

    I dunno. Even if it's authentic, to be honest, it's a little underwhelming given how similar all of the tracks are. Now, if that other one were to show up, the full album with additional demos, that'd be the real gold mine.

    Also, don't harass Rob on twitter. It puts him in a bad spot because he can't just go around talking about unreleased NIN content. Plus, he's moved on, and dragging him back over and over is shitty.

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    Is this really all there is?

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    Yeah, the 'radio edit' of EDIETS is actually a professional remix done after the album came out, and the additional "Only" vocal is from the multi-track session given away to fans. It's certainly possible that this version of "Right Where" is also reconstructed by a fan from the 5.1 surround mix, and the clean guitar intro from "Getting Smaller" is just short enough that it could be from the instrumental version.

    Sad to say it but I don't see compelling evidence this is the genuine article.
    Last edited by botley; 03-27-2020 at 01:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Yeah, the 'radio edit' of EDIETS is actually a professional remix done after the album came out
    Source? How do we know the edit was made after the album?

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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    Source? How do we know the edit was made after the album?
    I swear there was an Interscope press package that came with one of the European promo CDs, I can't find it now. The Interpol remixes and the radio edit were commissioned specially for the single.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    I swear there was an Interscope press package that came with one of the European promo CDs, I can't find it now. The Interpol remixes and the radio edit were commissioned specially for the single.
    This is correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    I swear there was an Interscope press package that came with one of the European promo CDs, I can't find it now. The Interpol remixes and the radio edit were commissioned specially for the single.
    Ninwiki info is fairly sparse.

    Pretty sure this upload is fake. With Teeth 5.1 is relatively easy to remix. If not, it's disappointing. The CD itself could still be real. I hope the person who paid $1200 is happy.

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    Dude just released 90 odd minutes of 1930s orchestra music with his name attached to it. Do you really think he gives a rip what we think about five works in progress from a 15 year old album? Or anything else we theorize about here?

    It would be hilarious if he were to actually read this stuff and drop in like "You people are unreal. But here are those Bad Witch instrumentals you seem to want so bad, in reward of your diligence and persistence.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Sad to say it but I don't see compelling evidence this is the genuine article.
    I agree with the points that botley makes here.

    Sorry everyone, but I got got. I was trying to be sufficiently skeptical. There were plenty of things that were making warning bells go off, like the eBay artwork, the EDIETS edit, how RWIB seemed to be just a strange collapsed mono sound field. But Only really got me because I didn’t know about the multitracks. And I didn’t consider the multichannel mixes for modifying something like RWIB.

    It’s annoying that some people spend so much effort to waste people’s time. Oh well, at least we have a discussion thread about the promos now, instead of the information being scattered in the auction and questions threads.

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    Another thing I noticed with these is that THTF has lower volume than the rest. That makes the upload seem fishy.

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    The timing in "Only" is off. Vocals are not on beat, could be taken from multi-track.

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    It's all good - happens to the best of us.

    Nice work, team ETS.

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    Agreed. The fact that EDIETS is a such a radically different mix that was released much later is evidence enough. From what I recall, Reznor and Moulder produced With Teeth. I find it hard to believe they would have considered having a track on there that sounded like a totally different record. Also, why would a tentative tracklist sent a label include so few tracks?

    I think the next MAJOR question here is: as a community how can we reach the individual(s) who has their hands on the much longer tentative track list CD that Rob confirmed looked authentic and is linked above? I think that's where the real With Teeth era gold is.

    If we are able to listen to the unreleased tracks on that, we'll have likely heard all the finished (or near finished) work that came out of the With Teeth sessions. I remember around the release of With Teeth Trent said he had enough material left over to fill about half of another full length record. Through observation and releases over the years we can know most likely what tracks he was referring to. We've heard many but not all.

    1. Based on the Deluxe Edition With Teeth release and the new and improved lyrics posted we can see that The Warning (at least lyrically, potentially musically as well) was reworked and made it's way onto Year Zero.

    2. Not So Pretty Now was performed live and later released.

    3. Non Entity was also performed live, stripped down to piano and drum machine, and the studio track was later released.

    4. Cover It Up (based on what the person in possession of the CD says) became the musical foundation for The Idea of You.

    5. The End we've never heard.

    6. Good Day we've never heard.

    That's 6 tracks. About half of a full length record.

    If we can convince whoever has that CD to share, that is likely all there is left to hear from that time.
    Last edited by Sequenteon; 03-27-2020 at 09:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sequenteon View Post
    Agreed. The fact that EDIETS is a such a radically different mix that was released much later is evidence enough. From what I recall, Reznor and Moulder produced With Teeth. I find it hard to believe they would have considered having a track on there that sounded like a totally different record. Also, why would a tentative tracklist sent a label include so few tracks?

    I think the next MAJOR question here is: as a community how can we reach the individual(s) who has their hands on the much longer tentative track list CD that Rob confirmed looked authentic and is linked above? I think that's where the real With Teeth era gold is.

    If we are able to listen to the unreleased tracks on that, we'll have likely heard all the finished (or near finished) work that came out of the With Teeth sessions. I remember around the release of With Teeth Trent said he had enough material left over to fill about half of another full length record. Through observation and releases over the years we can know most likely what tracks he was referring to. We've heard many but not all.

    1. Based on the Deluxe Edition With Teeth release and the new and improved lyrics posted we can see that The Warning (at least lyrically, potentially musically as well) was reworked and made it's way onto Year Zero.

    2. Not So Pretty Now was performed live and later released.

    3. Non Entity was also performed live, stripped down to piano and drum machine, and the studio track was later released.

    4. Cover It Up (based on what the person in possession of the CD says) became the musical foundation for The Idea of You.

    5. The End we've never heard.

    6. Good Day we've never heard.

    That's 6 tracks. About half of a full length record.

    If we can convince whoever has that CD to share, that is likely all there is left to hear from that time.
    The guy's name was Ross something or other. He posted pictures (it was "demo" versions of NSPN and 'Non-Entity'), the room blew up, he disappeared. I took that to mean he was bullshitting. Until I hear IOY with alternate lyrics, I'm going to consider the case closed.

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    I'm gonna see what I can dig up. I know bullshitting about having unreleased tracks, etc is the norm. Though, when Rob Sheridan was shown pics he recognized the CD and remembered it's purpose. I have a hunch this is the real deal. I'll post back with findings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sequenteon View Post
    Also, why would a tentative tracklist sent a label include so few tracks?
    Per Rob's tweet, this was not just for the record label. They produced these for other purposes, including sending them to potential collaborators. And press, apparently:
    https://www.theninhotline.com/archiv...ticle.php?id=2

    So the existence of this promo was known previously, but not the appearance or contents. The fact that Rob recognized the promos, and that the one-disc conforms to previously known info indicates to me that they are probably genuine. It's just this download which is bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sequenteon View Post
    Does anyone here have any links to posts on facebook where this CD was originally mentioned (it was allegedly first mentioned by someone on the facebook group Nine Inch Nails Collecting and Trading...but I looked at every post on that group and couldn't find it) or any posts on ETS about this disc?
    Here's the previous discussion about it on ETS: https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/showthread.php?p=480625

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