Trump 2020-21 - Epilogue

[Einzige]

Because he's trying to actually win an election?

Yes, you've got it. Elections are utterly ineffectual vehicles for sociopolitical change, and granting them legitimacy is in and of itself a conservative act

[versusreality]

Yes, you've got it. Elections are utterly ineffectual vehicles for sociopolitical change, and granting them legitimacy is in and of itself a conservative act

let us know how it goes when you try to burn down your local businesses. why wait? get the revolution started today!

[halo eighteen]

Why are we still interacting with this troll?

[Einzige]

Why are we still interacting with this troll?

The greatness of the Democratic Party.

[M1ke]

I think the point that Einzige is trying to make, is that small incremental progress that you'd likely get with Biden is equivalent to the drastic destruction of democracy you'd get with Trump.

And honestly, if that's not enough to make you realize how much value their is in debating something with them, then I can't help you.

[Einzige]

that small incremental progress that you'd likely get with Biden

my point is that this probably doesn't exist - we'll surely get an expanded cold war with Russia under Biden, and he's set to be more hawkish than Trump in the Middle East as well.

[allegro]

Violence does bring change

This country has seen violence and rioting and looting related to racial oppression since the '60s.

It brought very little to no change.

See this: Scars Still Run Deep In Motor City 50 Years After Detroit Riots

[Einzige]

This country has seen violence and rioting and looting related to racial oppression since the '60s.

It brought very little to no change.

It scared Johnson into signing the 1968 Civil Rights Bill, per the Kerner Report, and forced Nixon to pare back his plans to eliminate programs like HUD (whether or not legislative change is sufficient or relevant is a matter of debate, but the '68 Civil Rights act absolutely does not happen without the riots of a year prior). But, of course, the violence should be organized and opposed to the legislative process, contra the Civil Rights Movements' strategy of using it to force legislation.

No 1967 riots, no Kern Report, no 1968 Civil Rights Bill (with the sweet little anti-riot proviso tucked into Title X). That little real change emerged from the 1968 bill is simply a demonstration of the absolute limits of liberal capitalism and the failures of the left-wing of Capital as embodied in the Democratic Party.

[allegro]

Of course not. Which is precisely why supporting Biden is so ineffectual.

Biden, and the Democratic Party, and American left-liberals, are all just more flavors of conservative.

Because most American voters, including a huge number of the phony Che Guevaras on the left, only vote in Presidential general elections and maybe primaries. They don't care about local elections, including municipal elections, district elections, school board elections, etc. WHICH IS WHERE MOST CHANGE ACTUALLY OCCURS.

[Einzige]

Because most American voters, including a huge number of the phony Che Guevaras on the left, only vote in Presidential general elections and maybe primaries. They don't care about local elections, including municipal elections, district elections, school board elections, etc. WHICH IS WHERE MOST CHANGE ACTUALLY OCCURS.

I don't care about any elections, because I reject electoralism. If Bernie Sanders were elected President, with a Congress made up of five hundred and thirty-eight Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez clones and a Supreme Court stacked nine deep with DSA members, it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the structure of American Capital, which is objective and which transcends the political structure.

Fuck social democracy. Also, fuck Che Guevara and Soviet State capitalism.

[Wretchedest]

It's not that I think the Democratic party is effective it's that this guy is advocating a third party vote which is thousands of times more ineffectual.

And all it does is serve your fucking ego. There are people struggling in this country who benefit from social programs like Obama phones, who got off the street because of programs funded by federal healthcare grants. But that doesn't matter to you because you want everyone to see your big swinging dick. You're above it all! Wow look at them go

[allegro]

It scared Johnson into signing the 1968 Civil Rights Bill, per the Kern Report, and forced Nixon to pare back his plans to eliminate programs like HUD (whether or not legislative change is sufficient or relevant is a matter of debate, but the '68 Civil Rights act absolutely does not happen without the riots of a year prior). But, of course, the violence should be organized and opposed to the legislative process, contra the Civil Rights Movements' strategy of using it to force legislation.

No 1967 riots, no Kern Report, no 1968 Civil Rights Bill (with the sweet little anti-riot proviso tucked into Title X). That little real change emerged from the 1968 bill is simply a demonstration of the absolute limits of liberal capitalism and the failures of the left-wing of Capital as embodied in the Democratic Party.

Bullshit.

You're cherry picking and not counting things like SELMA and police brutality directed at blacks and Freedom Riders.

Violence like the riots and looting affects the neighborhoods where minorities live and work; it mostly serves to negatively affect their own neighborhoods, often permanently.

In the case of Kenosha, footage shows it was mostly white people doing the damage, not in their own neighborhood.

There are plenty of examples of change without any of that. One great example: the Black Friday protests in Chicago after the release of the Laquan McDonald dashcam footage in Chicago.

They were massive, organized, shut down the Mag Mile on its busiest shopping day of the year, hit retailers straight in the wallet without smashing one single window or burning down one building.

It led to the firing of the Police Superintendent, a Federal investigation into the CPD, and the Mayor not running for re-election.

[Einzige]

It's not that I think the Democratic party is effective it's that this guy is advocating a third party vote

I don't advocate a third party vote. All of the third parties are garbage (including ostensibly "Communist" ones like the CPUSA, which has been a Democratic Party appendage since the end of the Cold War, endorsing Kerry, Obama etc.)

Bullshit.

You're cherry picking and not counting things like SELMA and police brutality directed at blacks and Freedom Riders.

The impetus for the 1968 Civil Rights Act was literally as a response to the Kerner Report on the 1967 race riots. The 1968 Act simply proved ineffectual, because all civil rights acts are ineffectual, because legislative electoralism is useless.

[allegro]

I don't care about any elections, because I reject electoralism. If Bernie Sanders were elected President, with a Congress made up of five hundred and thirty-eight Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez clones and a Supreme Court stacked nine deep with DSA members, it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the structure of American Capital, which is objective and which transcends the political structure.

Fuck social democracy. Also, fuck Che Guevara and Soviet State capitalism.

Yeah, well, good luck with that.

I concur with the others, that you're just trolling in this thread.

There will be no change to our elections; it's written in our Constitution, The End.

[allegate]

I don't care about any elections, because I reject electoralism. If Bernie Sanders were elected President, with a Congress made up of five hundred and thirty-eight Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez clones and a Supreme Court stacked nine deep with DSA members, it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the structure of American Capital, which is objective and which transcends the political structure.

Fuck social democracy. Also, fuck Che Guevara and Soviet State capitalism.

so what do you believe in? Other than "nothing" and concern-trolling, that is.

[Einzige]

Yeah, well, good luck with that.

I concur with the others, that you're just trolling in this election thread.

There will be no change to our elections; it's written in our Constitution, The End.

"Our Constitution". Hence your conservatism.

[Einzige]

so what do you believe in? Other than "nothing" and concern-trolling, that is.

Left-Communism, of the sort elaborated by the American theorist Paul Mattick and the Dutch astronomer Antonie Pannekoek. I believe in the inevitability of the abolition of generalized commodity production for exchange and the value form. Democracy is superseded where production is for use.

[Einzige]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1968

This act was prompted by the riots of the prior year.

[allegro]

"Our Constitution". Hence your conservatism.

No, "our" refers to venue.

[allegro]

It's ALL drift. I'm no longer participating.


@sweeterthan : Can we please do something about this?

[allegro]

You know, I CAME HERE to post THIS:

This was going on yesterday in Kenosha, ignoring the Trump visit; this is the Kenosha I know and love:

[marodi]

On a lighter note: Iwu Jima is the new Yo, Semite.

[allegro]

On a lighter note: Iwu Jima is the new Yo, Semite.

And soup-throwing is the new militia.


You wanna know who uses soup as their logo, though?

Boogaloo Boys:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nt/3204899001/

[allegate]

Left-Communism, of the sort elaborated by the American theorist Paul Mattick and the Dutch astronomer Antonie Pannekoek. I believe in the inevitability of the abolition of generalized commodity production for exchange and the value form. Democracy is superseded where production is for use.

[Einzige]

This shit is embarrassing.

https://twitter.com/communistsusa/st...75089443074050

[sweeterthan]

It's ALL drift. I'm no longer participating.


@sweeterthan: Can we please do something about this?

it is drifting from trump so let’s get back on topic: worst president ever. @Einzige feel free to start a thread about....the evils of a two party system? american politics?

[versusreality]

This shit is embarrassing.

https://twitter.com/communistsusa/st...75089443074050

truth is, you probably should just leave the country. it will never turn in to what you want it to be. you may be better off in China or Russia, but that's not a guarantee. better yet, you can always start your own communist community in the jungles of Guyana if you'd like.

[Einzige]

truth is, you probably should just leave the country. it will never turn in to what you want it to be. you may be better off in China or Russia, but that's not a guarantee. better yet, you can always start your own communist community in the jungles of Guyana if you'd like.

I don't want "the country" to turn into anything. I want "the country", and all countries, to be dissolved by proletarian revolutions.

But again, liberals are all conservatives.

[Jinsai]

I don't want "the country" to turn into anything. I want "the country", and all countries, to be dissolved by proletarian revolutions.

And I want a flying pony. I will name him Whiskers, and when I fly upon his back, I will think back fondly upon this thread.

It's nice to want things. Anyway, back on topic, I want Trump to lose this election so the world doesn't end. Unlike the other shit we're talking about here, there's a real possibility of that happening.

[Einzige]

I want Trump to lose this election so the world doesn't end.

Trump is an utterly generic conservative Republican President (which is itself little different from milquetoast Democratic Presidents). Outside of his pretend-populist "outsider" rhetoric, there's absolutely nothing distinguishing him from his predecessors.