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Thread: Trump 2020-21 - Epilogue

  1. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Side note: His brother's funeral was held in the East Room of the White House because "I think he'd be greatly honored. He loves our country. He loved our country so much...."
    He wants to establish a monarchy... as if his title warrants a "national funeral" for his brother or something by extension of his presidency. I don't have any hard feelings for him really... RIP. But it doesn't need to happen with a White House funeral. This is one of those moments that politicians and sociopaths cling to, this moment where "it's wrong to criticize what I'm doing" and then weaponize it. Like "oh don't disrespect the troops, because then you hate our military and so therefore we should be able to do whatever we want militarily, because god bless america and our military might... and don't say that Trump is politicizing his brother's death... that would undermine all the times you've been sad about people dying. C'mon, just think about how awful you'd feel if someone accused you of doing that... if you were president... and... whatever"
    Last edited by Jinsai; 08-24-2020 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #1172
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    I dunno, I remember watching Trisha Nixon’s Rose Garden wedding on TV when I was a kid, so I didn’t think of this Rob Trump funeral as that big of a deal. It was private, they put the stiff in the East Room for a few hours and it made it easier for Trump to avoid having to go to an actual funeral home during Covid. Notwithstanding any of this “Rob would be honored” shit (because he’s DEAD). And the Trump family has to pay for stuff like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    This isn't verbatim, but had an argument with someone recently where they asserted that "it doesn't matter how you feel about anything, it doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong. If you care about that, you're going to lose. Unless your primary goal is winning, you are going to lose in politics." This person also felt that it was great that the democrats were so easily distracted by moral bitching, and that Republicans were smart enough to not do things like throw Al Franken under the bus. It was all about a strategic thing, like a board game. It was like I was talking to this fucking person like "what's the best strategy to win in Monopoly?"
    It’s true, really.

    The reality is that 50% of eligible voters don’t vote.

    And the vast majority of eligible voters don’t use social media, or at least don’t pay enough attention to really notice anything political on it.

    The vast majority of eligible voters aren’t going to be informed by, let alone swayed by, Twitter or Facebook, because they don’t even use either one.

    Claudia Conway screaming into the ether about BLM won’t change one god damned thing.

    My Twitter account got locked down and I’m in Twitter jail for 12 hours today for “spreading false information about an election.”

    Except I didn’t tweet any original content regarding same; I’d only retweeted a few well-known news reporters. So some angry MAGAs reported me to Twitter, and Twitter’s algorithms lock down without analyzing. Likely because I reported Trump for one of HIS shitty “mail fraud” tweets.

    It’s all just cat and mouse bullshit that’s meaningless.

    I give up. I’m done “resisting.” I’m going back to reading books and avoiding migraines.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-24-2020 at 01:59 PM.

  3. #1173
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post

    I give up. I’m done “resisting.” I’m going back to reading books and avoiding migraines.
    Well, I'll be right there with you in three months if we lose this thing... but until then

  4. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    ...I didn’t think of this Rob Trump funeral as that big of a deal.
    I mostly agree with this so long as the family truly pays for whatever it cost to host the ceremony. But it'll probably go on the long laundry list of shit they say is out-of-pocket but is actually picked up by the taxpayer.

    In the end, it was all performative because he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself.


  5. #1175
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    I mostly agree with this so long as the family truly pays for whatever it cost to host the ceremony.
    Presidents pay out-of-pocket for WAY more stuff that happens in the White House than I ever realized.

    They receive a BILL for all private functions.

    They get a salary and the staff comes with the house but I guess they pay for nearly ALL the food and stuff for private functions PLUS any extra staff necessary. So if he has a funeral, he pays for a casket, all funeral-related expenses, and even the food served at lunch if there is one.

    Here’s one article: https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blog...pay-groceries/
    Last edited by allegro; 08-24-2020 at 04:55 PM.

  6. #1176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Well, I'll be right there with you in three months if we lose this thing... but until then
    I have my yard sign, ordered another one when Harris was announced (as an update), I’m voting, but there’s nothing more I can do. I’m pulling way back. I can’t even plan an escape to another country if he wins. Because Covid. So, I’m checking out in my head. My anxiety levels are just too high, this government just sucks right now. I hate too many Americans right now.

  7. #1177
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    anything to make a buck. I just hope he does something between now and November instead of waiting until after to drop something big.

  8. #1178
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post


    anything to make a buck. I just hope he does something between now and November instead of waiting until after to drop something big.
    What could anyone possibly drop that would matter?

    Trump openly admitted to entering the dressing room at his Miss Teen USA pageants knowing that there would be naked underage girls in there. He's been proven to have colluded with Russia to win the last election. He's killed millions of Americans. He's holding children in concentration camps apart from their families. He admitted to sexual assault before the last election. He's been connected to Epstein multiple times and wished Maxwell well. He didn't build his wall. He's trying to prevent voting by dismantling the post office. He's pushing snake-oil cures for covid-19. He's called white supremacists very fine people. He cut funding to the WHO during a global pandemic. His election campaign people was filled with convicted felons. He almost started world war 3. He tried to get the Ukrainian president to investigate Hunter Biden to help his campaign by withholding military aid. He fired Comey because Comey was investigating him for his campaign collusion with Russia. He passed sweeping tax changes that will help the rich and bankrupt everyone else. He's an enemy of the free press. He promotes dangerous conspiracy theories. He's bragging about passing basic cognitive tests. He gave positions of power to his children instead of people who know what they're doing. He wanted to trade puerto rico for greenland. He tried to ban Muslims from entering the country. He commuted Roger Stone's sentence. He tear gassed protesters for a photo op. He chose to delay testing at Kushners recommendation because they thought the pandemic would hit democratic states harder and be politically advantageous. He urged protesters to revolt against social distancing measures enacted by Democrats. And there's probably even more that I'm just forgetting for some reason.

    There is nothing that could be dropped that could be worse than what's already out there.
    Last edited by M1ke; 08-24-2020 at 09:23 PM.

  9. #1179
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    pretty much... Trump could "decloak" as Hitler re-incarnate and it wouldn't matter!! AND, the most fucked up part is, Biden could pull his fleshmask off and reveal that he's some lizard demon thing or whatever just fucking kill me...

    ...and I'd still crawl through shards of broken glass to vote for him!

    The point is, I don't believe ANYONE who says they're undecided at this point. These fucking people just want attention.
    EVERYONE is decided.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 08-24-2020 at 11:19 PM.

  10. #1180
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post


    anything to make a buck. I just hope he does something between now and November instead of waiting until after to drop something big.
    No Republican thinks Cohen is credible enough to care.

  11. #1181
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    Don’t know why we should trust him either... he had a chance to tell the truth under oath when it mattered. Instead he showed pretty much nothing, dropped “bombshells” like “Trump is racist!” and generally wasted everyone’s time because he wanted to sell his book. It doesn’t matter whose side he’s on, Cohen is scum... and yes that’s EXACTLY the kind of asshole Trump would hire to be his fixer. There’s no redemption arc for him.

  12. #1182
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    "(He said) that men would "parachute in here on us," "shoot some of our innocent babies," and "they'll torture our children, they'll torture some of our people here, they'll torture our seniors."

    A quote from Jim Jones audio recording as he was committing mass murder to his followers...doesn't sound much different from Trump/Republicans...it's actually eerie

  13. #1183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Don’t know why we should trust him either.
    Democrats and Trump-haters are already NOT voting for Trump, so nothing Cohen says is going to tell them anything they don't already know.

    Point being that Cohen is just an echo chamber for Democrats, and also a possible source of $$ - which he SHOULDN'T BE, because NOBODY should forget that Cohen is a shitty attorney, a piece of shit, a guy who willingly protected Trump and committed illegal and fraudulent acts to protect and enable Trump.

    Just because Cohen is now dropped dime on Trump doesn't make Cohen a "good guy."

    Cohen is trying to drum up publicity to "drop something big" just to save his own ass and get $$ for his family before he goes back into prison and won't be able to earn any money, again.

    There is nothing he can "drop" that will mean anything to anyone, because he is a useless, unreliable source.

  14. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I know that seems like the case, because how could it not be the case, but you're wrong. The truth is, a lot of people check in or out for about a week before each election.
    I think this woman is correct.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-25-2020 at 05:15 PM.

  15. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    There is nothing he can "drop" that will mean anything to anyone, because he is a useless, unreliable source.
    Unless he has REAL receipts for these skeletons, then it might actually matter. If it's just up to "his word" and whatever he writes in this book, yes, of course that's useless, and of course, nobody should give him money for anything.

  16. #1186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Unless he has REAL receipts for these skeletons, then it might actually matter. If it's just up to "his word" and whatever he writes in this book, yes, of course that's useless, and of course, nobody should give him money for anything.
    Nobody is going to believe him; they didn't believe him when he testified before Congress.

    Trump could eat a baby and Trump voters won't care; they're voting for Trump the leader and what they can do for him, not Trump the guy.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-25-2020 at 05:16 PM.

  17. #1187
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    Quote Originally Posted by versusreality View Post
    "(He said) that men would "parachute in here on us," "shoot some of our innocent babies," and "they'll torture our children, they'll torture some of our people here, they'll torture our seniors."

    A quote from Jim Jones audio recording as he was committing mass murder to his followers...doesn't sound much different from Trump/Republicans...it's actually eerie
    My dad was in the army and was given the task of having to pick up the bodies from the Jones' mass murder. It really fucked him up mentally and he had a hard time processing what he saw some 20+ years after the fact.

  18. #1188
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    My dad was in the army and was given the task of having to pick up the bodies from the Jones' mass murder. It really fucked him up mentally and he had a hard time processing what he saw some 20+ years after the fact.
    holy shit! i’m so sorry he had to deal with that. i find it both horrifying and intriguing that he experience it like that. i’ve seen some stuff on tv but i’m sure it in no way compares to being there.

  19. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    My dad was in the army and was given the task of having to pick up the bodies from the Jones' mass murder. It really fucked him up mentally and he had a hard time processing what he saw some 20+ years after the fact.
    that is horrible to hear, I'm sorry to hear that. having listened to the tape and saw the NBC footage...it legit forever tainted my mind. I don't even want to imagine being there for the after math in real life...

  20. #1190
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    I never got my dad to talk about it (was too worried about PTSD) but I would have liked to ask a few questions just to fill my curiosity.

  21. #1191
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotoriousTIMP View Post
    I never got my dad to talk about it (was too worried about PTSD) but I would have liked to ask a few questions just to fill my curiosity.
    I had a fascination with that for a while, read a ton about it. Truly awful. I feel bad for people like your dad. Total mess.

  22. #1192
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    Jim Gaffigan is going off today.



    Last edited by allegate; 08-28-2020 at 11:52 AM.

  23. #1193
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    Pope John Paul II covered up literally thousands of priests who were sexually abusing children, yet he was canonized. He’s the “real” Catholic? Fuck you, Lou Holz.

  24. #1194
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    Green screen dress, big mistake


  25. #1195
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    We Don’t Know How to Warn You Any Harder. America is Dying.

    We Survivors of Authoritarianism Have a Message America Needs to Hear: This is Exactly How it Happens, and It’s Happening Here.

    Right about now, something terrible is happening in America. Society is one tiny step away from the final collapse of democracy, at the hands of a true authoritarian, and his fanatics. Meanwhile, America’s silent majority is still slumbering at the depth and gravity of the threat.

    I know that strikes many of you as somehow wrong. So let me challenge you for a moment. How much experience do you really have with authoritarianism? Any? If you’re a “real” American, you have precisely none.

    Take it from us survivors and scholars of authoritarianism. This is exactly how it happens. The situation could not — could not — be any worse. The odds are now very much against American democracy surviving.

    If you don’t believe me, ask a friend. I invite everyone who’s lived under authoritarianism to comment. Those of us how have?
    We survivors of authoritarianism have a terrible, terrible foreboding, because we are experiencing something we should never do: deja vu. Our parents fled from collapsing societies to America. And here, now, in a grim and eerie repeat of history, we see the scenes of our childhoods played out all over again. Only now, in the land that we came to. We see the stories our parents recounted to us happening before our eyes, only this time, in the place they brought us to, to escape from all those horrors, abuses, and depredations.

    We survivors are experiencing this terrible feeling of deja vu right now as a group, as a class. We talk about it, how eerie and grim this sense of deja vu is. It’s happening all over again! Do you remember this part of your childhood? When the armed men roamed the streets? When the secret police disappeared opponents? When the fascist masses united — and that was enough to destroy democracy for good? We talk about it, believe me — but you don’t hear it because we have no real voice. America’s pundits are named Chris and Jake and Tucker. They are not named Eduardo and Ravi and Xiao and Umair. But Chris and Jake and Tucker can’t help you now. They don’t know what the hell they’re dealing with. They literally have no idea because they have no experience whatsoever.

    The only people who do right now in America are us survivors. Let me remind you, by the way, what happens we speak out: we lose whatever credibility and status we have. The moment I began to warn of this, I lost my column in HBR, my cable news appearances, and so forth. Don’t cry for me. Understand me, my friend, know me. If we had a voice, we survivors, we would be warning you as loudly and strongly as we possibly could.

    All of us. We would say:

    This is not a joke. This is not a drill. When we survivors of authoritarianism experience, as a group, a class, a cohort, something that we never, ever should — the horrific deja vu that the horrors of our childhoods, that our parents knew, are happening, all over again, here, something is much, much more wrong than you know.

    Now let me make all the above concrete. I am going to use the example of Kenosha to draw out things that perhaps only we survivors can see — or at least that we see first and easiest. Things that the “real” American is either still playing dumb about, or is still mum about, and both equate to the same thing: silence, which is complicity, in times like these.

    When we look at Kenosha, we survivors, and you “real” Americans, do we see the same thing? Do we feel the same gravity, pain, urgency? You will have to tell me. Here is what I see, that I’m 100% sure every survivor sees — but I doubt “real” Americans fully see yet.

    What happened there? A young man was radicalized by the movement that fascist President led. The fascist President spoke of hated minorities as animals and vermin. He led his faithful in chants of hate, moments that built the bond of the tribe between them. Soon enough, that President was speaking of peaceful protesters as anarchists and revolutionaries and seditionaries. And the question that the fascist raises was left hanging in the air. “My people, my flock — what do we do with traitors?”

    The answer, to a young man like that, is what it was in Nazi Germany, in the Islamic World, in every fascist collapse since time began. We kill them. So off he went with his rifle — and killed innocent people. Perfectly innocent people.

    There is a crucial lesson there. America already has an ISIS, a Taliban, an SS waiting to be born. A group of young men willing to do violence at the drop of a hat, because they’ve been brainwashed into hating. The demagogue has blamed hated minorities and advocates of democracy and peace for those young men’s stunted life chances, and they believe him. That’s exactly what an ISIS is, what a Taliban is, what an SS is. The only thing left to do by an authoritarian is to formalize it.

    But when radicalized young men are killing people they have been taught to hate by demagogues right in the open, on the streets — a society has reached the beginnings of sectarian violence, the kind familiar in the Islamic world, and is at the end of democracy’s road.

    How did the state’s law enforcement respond? In America, they’re simply called “the police.” They let him do it, and then they protected him. The killer was only brought to justice because there was a national outcry after the act was caught on video. If none of that had happened, he probably would never have been. The police were forced to act, in other words.

    What do we survivors see in that tiny parable? Crucial institutions have already been captured by the extremist factions who stand against democracy. Do all those cops think of themselves as fascists? Of course they don’t. So what? Mullahs don’t think of themselves as hate preachers, either. What else do you call someone who gives a violent young man with a gun a free pass to kill people, though? Someone who tries to shield him after the murder? A good and decent person?

    The police in America might not all think they are fascists. Certainly, not all of them are. But what is certain is that some significant number of them are captured. They are sympathetic to the forces which are now attacking democracy. They prioritize those forces over democracy, freedom, peace, justice.

    Let me give you an example. My friend Ben is a London copper. He abhors the violence in America. His jaw is dropped by it. He rejects carrying a gun, or even a taser. Do you see how big the gap, the problem is?

    If the police force is captured by the extremists — at least many police forces, it seems, then harder questions are raised. What about the armed forces?

    They’re democracy’s last line of protection. What happens when a Trump, a Saddam, a Gaddafi, refuses to leave office? The military must remove them — or if it doesn’t, it becomes their plaything. That game of brinksmanship is exactly how Saddams and Gaddafis capture militaries. By daring them to, and when they don’t — bang! — their back is broken.

    That’s another thing we survivors see very clearly right now, but “real” Americans might not. The capture of a police force is not just the capture of a police force. It threatens the whole fabric of a democracy. The monopoly on violence that the people’s agents should have is being transferred to the authoritarian. Why else would police forces beat people on the streets? Give hateful young men a free pass to kill people?

    It all points to the beginnings of true violence, not just at the hands of the radicals — but aided and abetted by the state. That is the point at which a democracy finishes collapsing — and never comes back. Because once the state is free to do real violence — who is going to protest? Speak out? Even criticize?

    Let me make that point crystal clear, by continuing my example. What happened next in Kenosha?

    Trump threatened to send in “federal agents” — and then he did. Which “federal agents”? The ones he used just a few weeks ago, in Portland. The “Homeland Security” force which has become the precise equivalent of his Irani Republican Guard or SS: a paramilitary which isn’t accountable to the people, any democratic institution, wears no badges, can’t be identified, and is controlled only by the authoritarian, at his discretion and whim.

    What did Trump’s stormtroopers do in Kenosha? They disappeared people, just like in Portland. They simply picked groups of people, roared up in unmarked cars, and…abducted them. To where? To jails. For what reason? For no reason — there were no warrants involved, no due process, no Constitutionality whatsoever. People were simply made to vanish. Like in the Soviet Union. Like in Saddam’s Iraq or Gaddafi’s Libya. Like in Nazi Germany.

    Again, the “real” American will think I’m exaggerating at this point, so let me say it again. This is what more or less every survivor of authoritarianism thinks, not just me. The only people who don’t think, who still dismiss these comparisons as alarmist are the ones who have never experienced authoritarianism. Those of us who have? We know that abductions by paramilitaries in unmarked cars at the whim of a tyrant are really, really bad.

    Why? They point to the complete breakdown of the rule of law. The rule of law only means something when an authoritarian can’t simply disappear people from the streets, ordering his paramilitary to do it, ignoring the constitution, discarding due process — with total impunity. But all that is exactly what Trump can do.

    He now has the nascent powers of a Gaddafi or a Saddam. No, I’m not kidding. He doesn’t have the full powers, to be sure — but he certainly has the beginnings of them. Maybe he can’t have people tortured in jail yet — but he can have almost anyone he likes in America picked up and disappeared.

    So how far away do you think even worse abuses of power are? When a tyrant can have almost anyone in a country they like disappeared, how far away do you really think torture is? Rape? Murder? I’m not being hyperbolic. I’m trying to speak to you like an adult. Will you listen?

    Let me finish my story of Kenosha, then, before the reality of authoritarianism overwhelms us both.

    What happened next?

    Nothing.

    There was a deafening silence. America’s intellectuals and pundits didn’t say authoritarianism, didn’t say fascism — again. America’s good cops didn’t exactly stand up for democracy. America’s generals didn’t assure the nation they’d intervene. America’s people didn’t wake up.

    What happened after an authoritarian showed he had the power to have people disappeared — people who protested the killing of innocents which itself was inspired by the authoritarian, at the hands of a young radicalized man — was…

    Nothing.

    People didn’t pour into the streets of the capitol, by the millions. The nation’s intellectuals and columnists didn’t call for the head of state’s resignation. The opposition didn’t immediately start a global movement to observe these abuses of power.

    Nothing happened.

    And so the predictable is really what happened.

    The authoritarian’s numbers rose in the polls. That is because there is always some significant number of people who respond to violence, brutality, hate. Unless they are reminded, sternly, forcefully, that there is something better. That this is not who we must be. That this is the wrong path.

    In America, that is not happening. Not nearly enough to fight authoritarianism, and win. That’s not my opinion: it’s a factual reality. Trump is rising in the polls, and is now at the point where the slightest secret hate vote — all those polite soccer moms who say they’d never vote for him, and then do, in the heat of the voting booth — will give him an outright victory. He won’t even have to contest a loss, as he’s sure to do. He will just win.

    And then American democracy will be over.

    Because the last and final thing we survivors of democracy know is that truly terrible things are on the way then. Yes, really. Men who can put kids in cages and radicalize younger men to do real violence? They don’t want you to live in peace, freedom, harmony, and goodness. They want you to live in fear, despair, and terror. And they will begin using extreme violence to do it.

    A second Trump term? It will involve all of the following. Shock troops on the streets. Disappearances becoming everyday events.

    Critics and dissidents being tortured in hidden jails. Expression and thought being monitored for any negative portrayal of the fascists. Hated minorities institutionally dehumanized and resegregated. It will involve levels of such horrific violence and brutality that Americans still cannot understand or grasp precisely because they have been lucky enough to have never yet personally experienced them.

    So leave it to us. We survivors. We dispossessed ones. The exiles and orphans of modernity. The ones who have never felt like we belonged. The gift we always could have given you was to protect you from this. But even the good Americans never gave us room as true equals in their promised land. That is how America got here. By never letting us in, even though we were here. We could have told you how it happens, and what “it” means.

    But it is not too late to listen to us.

    This is your last chance to hear our warning.

  26. #1196
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    I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but Trump's defending the Kanosha shooter.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...-gunman-406377

  27. #1197
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    funny how the "law and order" president won't say that Rittenhouse having that gun as a minor was illegal. and then defends him.
    Last edited by versusreality; 08-31-2020 at 09:02 PM.

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    it’s bullshit. he wanted to shoot someone. his intent is clear. i hate everything about this kid and what he represents. he’s everything trump wants. the conservatives who are lapping it up and calling him a hero are sick.

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    Wait til he inevitably pardons him

  30. #1200
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
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    Trump, to the mayor of Portland: "He has to call... All they have to do is call, and the trouble will end."


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