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Thread: The Poopy Diaper Vinyl Thread

  1. #121
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    My personal favorite is when people on Discogs are (constantly) bitching about the quality of a vinyl pressing of [insert any title here], and someone drops the obligatory "The vinyl sounds fine, check your mediocre turntable if you're having issues.." reply, which is bound to smoke out elitist pricks like rats. It's never not funny..

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Something sometimes lost in this discussion: TR grew up listening to vinyl. Vinyl is nostalgic to him the way cds are to a lot of us. And when it begins to make less and less fiscal sense to manufacture a cd...it’s probably an easy decision to make.

    In the mid 90s, artists like Beck and Thurston Moore were releasing albums/EP's on vinyl and not even offering a CD of those particular releases. This was at a time when vinyl was in the graveyard. Those guys can claim how they always repped vinyl. I don't remember Trent releasing any albums/EPs on just vinyl back then. Every LP he released had a CD release as well. But in the last few years, once vinyl became popular again, suddenly he hops on the vinyl only bandwagon and is claiming how he always preferred it...Errrr ok....I also remember him doing interviews in the mid 90s claiming how he was listening to Bowie Rykodisc CDs because they had bonus tracks on them. I also remember him saying how he was a member of Columbia House when he was a teenager. Columbia House didnt ship vinyl....For someone who hates streaming (as Trent clearly does) and prefers his fans consume the physical product, you would think he would be happy fans want to buy CDs instead of downloading for free.....
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell; 11-12-2019 at 01:35 PM.

  3. #123
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    with CDs you can instantly hit that little button and skip to the next track. Albums, at least, you had to go to the trouble of moving the needle. With an album you had this big piece of art, something on the inside and the vinyl. You know, it was a cool thing. CDs are ugly little pieces of shit; art's gone. - TR, 1994

    I've been in denial ever since CDs came out. CD packages suck. They can unfold 15 times, but they're still shitty little pamphlets. It's not a sleeve, there's no real estate, and there's no room for art. It's in a shitty, plastic, exploding jewel box. They're shit.
    - TR, 2005

    I'd say he's been pretty consistent.

  4. #124
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    I think what's happening recently with media in general is that we've hit a critical mass with what's possible. From the mid-20th century until a few years ago, we were constantly building toward convenience and accessibility. We went from records, which required you to be stationary, to things like CDs and tapes, which allowed you to listen on the fly, to iPods, where you could keep a ton of music on you at all times, to streaming, which allows you to listen to (more or less) listen to anything anywhere.

    Each of those paradigms shifts was exciting, but now we've pretty much reached the end of the line, and I think that's part of what has caused the resurgence of vinyl. The battle for convenience is over, which is causing people to appreciate a format that takes a step back from the instant gratification we've gotten so used to. And of course, for some, streaming is all they've ever wanted and all they'll use from now on, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

    (I just saw Terminator: Dark Fate, and I realized how unexcited I was by all the effects, largely because of the same issue. Now that CGI lets us do anything, we're not nearly as impressed with it anymore. Compare that to something like the Mission: Impossible movies, where it's still exciting to watch crazy Ethan Hunt hanging off the side of a plane, because we know crazy Tom Cruise was actually hanging off the side of a plane.)

    But now look at it from an artist's point of view. Each of those paradigm shifts is both an advantage and a disadvantage to an artist. "Now people can listen to my music on the fly on CD... but they can also skip/shuffle songs instead of listening to the album." "Now people can have all of my songs on their iPod at once... but they can also just listen to one of my songs before switching over to something else." "Now anyone with Spotify can stream my music... but they can also listen to every other artist in the world instead."

    So someone like Trent is always going to experiment with different ideas, from digital-only releases like the original release of The Slip to multi-format releases like Ghosts to vinyl-only releases like The Fragile: Deviations 1. Since the vinyl mission statement of 2016, Trent's focus on CDs has waned, with the CD versions of the trilogy being treated more like an afterthought than anything else. Who knows where it'll go from here, but as I mentioned a few pages back, if they felt there was enough of a demand for CDs, they would make CDs, plain and simple. Also, this is to say nothing of the fact that film/TV scores are likely to fall under a different set of rules than NIN releases, as Trent and Atticus are almost certainly not the only people who get to decide how their score work is released.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadflax View Post
    ...now we've pretty much reached the end of the line...
    just wait til we can get chips implanted directly into our brains to stream that sweet sweet music! /s

    even as someone who almost constantly needs background noise (tv or music will do) when i'm not actively listening to something, i would never want something like that.

    also, your entire post is spot-on. <3

    i'd always rather see slightly "off" (or even straight up shitty) practical effects than even the best CGI, not because i'm some elitist, but because my brain has a much easier time with suspension of disbelief when something is real and was crafted in the physical world, even if i can see the people pushing it down the hallway on a dolly :: cough cough the engineer in hellraiser cough ::
    i think that relates directly to my affinity for vinyl. i'd rather be able to hold something in my hands that, while it may have imperfections, pulls me into an experience. and again, that's not to discount CDs being able to do that, but i am a sucker for the big artwork.
    Last edited by eversonpoe; 11-13-2019 at 01:27 AM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    For one, why take a comment so personally? Who cares if he makes a snide comment regarding a specific format? He's not shitting on you or your collection. He has an opinion based on a whole host of factors, decades of experience, and input from his management, his financial advisors, a label, etc. In the case of Watchmen, there is an additional layer with HBO management. In an increasingly difficult retail marketplace pressing the cd apparently isn't worth the effort / cost.

    Not personally as my response was to another member saying they didn't see Trent's words as bashing the format, but your response proves the point of my post that he was clearly shitting on the format as you called it a snide comment.

    Also, HBO presses their soundtracks on CD all of the time, so it's not HBO. Big Little Lies, The Leftovers, Game Of Thrones, etc. scores got a CD release.

  7. #127
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    IIRC the CD releases of the EP trilogy didn't arrive until quite some time after the vinyl and digital releases. So perhaps there is a CD for this planned and we can't be sure one way or the other until a bit more time has passed.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
    That actually doesn't matter to the point I was making. I was talking about the inherent technical limitations of the format...
    Forgive me if I misunderstood but I thought you were asserting that 16 bit sample size was not sufficient. I'm not challenging that from a technical perspective (we could go there if you want), I was talking about what you can perceive. If one can't perceive any audible information in the extra space, what's the point of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
    but to answer the question; no. I haven't compared 24-bit WAV to 16-bit CD lossless for the same tracks (although I did just compare the 24-bit WAV, 4608kbps, of Ruiner to the High Resolution Stereo version from the Super Deluxe edition of The Downward Spiral, 1013kbps, at the same playback volume annnnnnd.... the WAV sounds a tiny bit brighter to my ears).
    I very deliberately wrote double-blind listening test and you have responded with compare. Did you perform a double-blind listening test? Any comparison test short of that is a waste of time. Personally I like X/X/Y tests:

    Quote Originally Posted by squishyball manual
    X/X/Y testing is a form of A/B/X testing in which the order of all samples is randomized and the position of the 'X' sample is not known ahead of time to be in the third position. In each trial, the user selects which of sample 1, 2 or 3 is believed to be the sample that is different from the other two. This test is useful for determining if any differences are audible between two samples and to what confidence level. It is a stronger version of the A/B/X test that eliminates sample order bias.
    You are right to point out the need to normalize for average volume. I believe squishyball (the software I linked to) supports replaygain metadata for this purpose.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    Also, HBO presses their soundtracks on CD all of the time, so it's not HBO. Big Little Lies, The Leftovers, Game Of Thrones, etc. scores got a CD release.
    Sure, but were any of those scores meta-narrative ARG type things? I wouldn't be surprised if the Watchmen score as a whole gets a vanilla CD release early next year, but with what they're doing with the staggered, fake release thing, it makes sense they would stick to one format for the initial pressing.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadflax View Post
    Sure, but were any of those scores meta-narrative ARG type things? I wouldn't be surprised if the Watchmen score as a whole gets a vanilla CD release early next year, but with what they're doing with the staggered, fake release thing, it makes sense they would stick to one format for the initial pressing.
    Possibly, but my response was to this comment that HBO management wouldn't press CD cuz it isn't worth the effort and cost, when HBO does indeed press CDs. Even Netflix and Lakeshore Records have released their scores on CD. There's clearly a market still.

  10. #130
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    This post will officially end the debate. This is for Trent and all the "CDs are dead and obsolete" and "theres no market for CDs anymore" people...Great article obliterating the bullshit false narrative that vinyl is outselling CDs in 2019...Vinyl is generating equal revenue because a vinyl LP sells for 2 to 3 times the cost of a CD. Look a little closer and you will see twice as many CDs were sold in the first half of 2019 compared to vinyl...Actually CDs have outsold vinyl by 116% THIS YEAR... 18.6 million CDs sold in the first 6 months of 2019 which averages out to around 37 million CDs sold in 2019......37 million CDs sold in 2019...CDs have outsold vinyl by 116% this year.... Vinyl at its best selling rate is still getting stomped on by CD sales. Oh yeah heres another article from Billboard talking about how CDs for Tool and Taylor Swift and Post Malone are flying off the shelves and now major labels are rethinking their anti CD strategy because they realize CDs are still big revenue….. That ends the whole "CDs are dying and obsolete" narrative


    http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2019/10/09/no-vinyl-records-arent-outselling-cds-do-the-math/

    https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...physical-music
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell; 11-12-2019 at 10:08 PM.

  11. #131
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    How do I 24/48 on a CD? Please advise.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    This post will officially end the debate. This is for Trent and all the "CDs are dead and obsolete" and "theres no market for CDs anymore" people...Great article obliterating the bullshit false narrative that vinyl is outselling CDs in 2019...Vinyl is generating equal revenue because a vinyl LP sells for 2 to 3 times the cost of a CD. Look a little closer and you will see twice as many CDs were sold in the first half of 2019 compared to vinyl...Actually CDs have outsold vinyl by 116% THIS YEAR... 18.6 million CDs sold in the first 6 months of 2019 which averages out to around 37 million CDs sold in 2019......37 million CDs sold in 2019...CDs have outsold vinyl by 116% this year.... Vinyl at its best selling rate is still getting stomped on by CD sales. Oh yeah heres another article from Billboard talking about how CDs for Tool and Taylor Swift and Post Malone are flying off the shelves and now major labels are rethinking their anti CD strategy because they realize CDs are still big revenue….. That ends the whole "CDs are dying and obsolete" narrative


    http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2019/10/09/no-vinyl-records-arent-outselling-cds-do-the-math/

    https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...physical-music

    You missed the most important part:

    "Instead it’s the case that vinyl is outearning and generating more revenue than CDs."
    More revenue is more important than how many units get sold. Companies are making more money off vinyl than off CDs, even if they're not selling as many vinyl copies. Also, what about digital sales and streaming versus CDs? Oh, and there's no mention of how niche releases (i.e. soundtracks) do when the same comparison is made.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    Also, what about digital sales and streaming versus CDs? Oh, and there's no mention of how niche releases (i.e. soundtracks) do when the same comparison is made.
    During the first half of 2019, vinyl sales accounted for 4% of the market, whereas paid subscriptions to streaming services accounted for 62%:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...h-riaa-880959/

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avarik View Post
    How do I 24/48 on a CD? Please advise.
    can't tell if joke or not joke...

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avarik View Post
    How do I 24/48 on a CD? Please advise.
    How do you do 24/48 on vinyl? Same answer : you don't.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    That ends the whole "CDs are dying and obsolete" narrative
    Not quite.

    The article you link to certainly shows that it would be incorrect to say that vinyl was currently outselling CD. The thing is, no one said it was. The disparity between units sold for each format is, as the author notes, obvious - no math required. The Rolling Stone article that he's talking about does not say that records are outselling CDs - it says they're poised to do so - that is, on the basis of current trends, it won't be long before they are. The basis for that prediction is not the single stat showing that, despite shifting fewer units, vinyl sales generated almost the same revenue as CD sales in the first half of 2019. The prediction that vinyl is poised to outsell CDs is based on year-on-year rates of decline in CDs sales versus rates of growth in vinyl sales. But really, in the context of a discussion about the death of CD, the comparison with vinyl sales is just a distraction. The key point is simply that, for both revenue and sales, CDs have been declining year-on-year since 2000, and the decline has yet to bottom out - indeed, the rate of decline has recently jumped. Check out the graphs here, particularly the second one. In 2017, 87.7M units sold, versus 52M in 2018 - a decline of over 40%. So, from an industry perspective, CD is dying a long death - no false narrative here, just look at the numbers. But who knows, perhaps the combined powers of Tool and Taylor Swift will be enough to reverse this trend.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    Maybe if he said, "For those who prefer to consume media via oversized resin discs," then maybe you got a point, but he was clearly talking shit on the CD format.
    The NTAE vinyl is described on the sticker as "The preferred edition of Not The Actual Events". This text hasn't simply been omitted on the CD release, it's actually blacked out. It's all quite passive-aggressive.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    For someone who hates streaming (as Trent clearly does)
    What? Didn't he was involved in helping make Beats Music streaming services? Releasing exclusive EPs on it? And after being bought by Apple, he released a couple of exclusive releases on Ping (who remembers that useless semi-social aspect of Apple iTunes where the artist could "interact directly to their fans").

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixML View Post
    What? Didn't he was involved in helping make Beats Music streaming services? Releasing exclusive EPs on it? And after being bought by Apple, he released a couple of exclusive releases on Ping (who remembers that useless semi-social aspect of Apple iTunes where the artist could "interact directly to their fans").
    He was very clear that he was getting involved in Beats/Apple Music streaming on a business/consultant level to try and build something which didn't suck. He then gave up and is no longer involved.

  20. #140
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    Point is everyone has a choice to listen to their music on vinyl or CD or streaming or even cassettes. There's no right or wrong way to listen to music. I just don't get into the whole "I like vinyl and people who listen to CDs suck" or "I have CDs and vinyl people suck" arguments. I have thousands of CDs and I will continue to add to my collection. To be honest the main reason I don't get started on vinyl is because I know if I ever start collecting vinyl, I won't be able to stop until I have every fucking album of every band I like and I don't feel like dropping 50 grand or more on vinyl. I am a hardcore music collector. If I start with vinyl, it won't stop until I get 9999999999999999999 records. My only issue is this narrative CDs are dying and on the way out which is nonsense. CD sales might be declining but they are still selling 40 plus million CDs a year and big name artists still sell lots of CDs and they still outsell vinyl by 116%. CDs are not going the way of Betamax in the 80s or cassette tapes in the 90s or VHS in the 2000s where it becomes almost an obsolete format. There will always be a market for CDs. If anything CDs may go the way of vinyl in the 90s. On the decline, but still having enough of an audience to keep them afloat until the eventual comeback....

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    I just don't get into the whole "I like vinyl and people who listen to CDs suck" or "I have CDs and vinyl people suck" arguments.
    Who says this? I don't recall anyone here saying this.

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Who says this? I don't recall anyone here saying this.
    Trent Reznor says it.....Also check the name of the thread


    Every debate on here about CD vs vinyl turns into a pissing contest of CD people shitting on vinyl people and vinyl people shitting on CD people. Can't we all just get along?

  23. #143
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    As a FLAC elitist, I like to talk down to those who still listen to mp3s.

  24. #144
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    pfft, you listen to FLAC? Probably 16-bit too. If it's not a 32-bit .wav I don't want to hear it.

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Can't we all just get along?
    this is why i still like having you around, man. sometimes you're right on the money and just want everyone to have a good time on here. <3

    i'm all about letting people enjoy what they enjoy. as long as it's not hurting anyone, who gives a shit?
    people in chicago flip out if you wanna put ketchup on your hot dog (i never put anything but cheese on a dog so it's a non-issue for me) and it's just like...who fucking cares? how does it affect you when someone puts a certain thing on their food? are they making you eat it? no? then shut up about it.
    the same thing applies to format preference. "you like vinyl? cool! hope you enjoy listening to your records. do you catalog them?" "you like CDs? cool! do you have any cool box sets?"
    it's so much easier to be nice and excited for someone but so many people choose to be dicks and i just don't get it. /rant

  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Every debate on here about CD vs vinyl turns into a pissing contest of CD people shitting on vinyl people and vinyl people shitting on CD people. Can't we all just get along?
    Uh, you were just as much a part of it as anyone else, especially with your sarcastic post a few pages back.

    Also, I hope Trent & Atticus release the next Nine Inch Nails album on 8-track only just to take the piss out of more uptight fans.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Can't we all just get along?
    Not dismissing people who like vinyl as 'revisionist hipsters' would be a good place to start - we're hardcore music collectors, like yourself.

  28. #148
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    Alright.... I like my streaming services. I tried testing my headphones with the blindtests of wav vs 128 vs 320 and I couldn't tell the difference in a quiet room (well maybe the 128). So in the bus or at work, I don't think I could care. I won't buy better headphones (yet, maybe ANC). I won't stop streaming (yet) and go all flac (or pay extra for Tidal HD) where I don't know how I'm going to sync all this between my devices and family account and everything.

    BUT! I would like to buy something. Vinyl seems a little bit useless if I don't have a record player. I'm not sure I want to invest (from 150 to 300$) and take the time to listen to what I am already listening to in the bus or at work. At home, I don't have much time for it. Collector's editions are too expensive and doesn't impress my wife or friends :P CDs are useless. I liked the idea of physical components, but that was scrapped. So now, I try to buy accessories now. Pins, shirts, stickers, tickets, books. But living in Canada, shipping cost is high. (I'm way toooo rational on my spendings)

    Back to vinyl. If I were to buy a record player, that wouldn't be for the sound, it would be to take the time to sit down and do "nothing" while listening to a favorite album. Which is something I don't do now. The idea is interesting. But I can do that with my phone plugged in my amp/speakers. And I can play custom playlist. So, I'm still thinking. I really tempted by the Watchmen trilogy. Then I'm scared on how many vinyls I would buy....

    So, thanks for listening.

  29. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixML View Post
    BUT! I would like to buy something. Vinyl seems a little bit useless if I don't have a record player. I'm not sure I want to invest (from 150 to 300$) and take the time to listen to what I am already listening to in the bus or at work.
    Why not invest in a network player that you could hook to your amp? Something that can play your files, stream from your subscribed streaming services, and that you can control from your couch with your phone. Easy to build for not much over $100, and it'll sound better than your phone.

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Every debate on here about CD vs vinyl turns into a pissing contest of CD people shitting on vinyl people and vinyl people shitting on CD people. Can't we all just get along?
    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    this is why i still like having you around, man. sometimes you're right on the money and just want everyone to have a good time on here. <3

    it's so much easier to be nice and excited for someone but so many people choose to be dicks and i just don't get it.
    It's definitely the case that some people are dicky about their preferred format, but it's pretty easy to shut them down, since almost all of us fall into the category of "listen however the fuck you want."

    But the bigger conversation here is about whether artists (specifically NIN & TR/AR) should be obligated to put their music out on CD. This of course inevitably turns into arguments about which format is better, more popular, etc., which is unfortunate, but it's definitely a more interesting debate than "my format can beat up your format."

    I've always been on the side of just getting whatever format a thing comes out in and being totally fine with it. I haven't seen any great arguments from other people about why artists should be obligated to put things out on CD, but it's been interesting to hear everyone's thoughts. Most of the arguments tend to be, "they should put things out on CD, because I listen to CDs," which is ridiculous, but the more nuanced arguments on both sides have been pretty cool to read.

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