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Thread: The Poopy Diaper Vinyl Thread

  1. #301
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    If you have lots of pops, clicks, and crackles on all of your new records, that's your equipment, not the records.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by otnavuskire View Post
    If you have lots of pops, clicks, and crackles on all of your new records, that's your equipment, not the records.
    This is a little too simplistic. After all, every pop, click, and crackle corresponds to the stylus making contact with something other than the groove - a scratch, some dust, or grime. So the condition of the records is really the key factor. Not to mention that some pressings just aren't that good and have a certain amount of noise baked in. Of course, different styluses will be more or less sensitive to these things. But - above a certain very low (e.g. Crossley) threshold, and generalising slightly - it's more often the higher-end cartridges which are more sensitive to these things; a entry level MM cartridge (say, an Ortofon 2M red) is liable to be less sensitive than a decent MC cartridge, since they're less sensitive generally. You'll get a lot more detail, particularly in the higher frequencies, with a decent MC cartridge, but this can cut both ways, and it'll be more sensitive to noise than a more basic cartridge (this is a bit of a generalisation, since stylus profile is also a factor, but again, the 'better' profiles tend also to be more sensitive). Similarly, if your phonostage has a poor high frequency response, then pops, clicks, and crackles are all going to be less obvious. In general, then, I think that better equipment is actually liable to expose you to more noise, which is why it becomes more important to keep your records nice and clean.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    This is a little too simplistic. After all, every pop, click, and crackle corresponds to the stylus making contact with something other than the groove - a scratch, some dust, or grime. So the condition of the records is really the key factor. Not to mention that some pressings just aren't that good and have a certain amount of noise baked in. Of course, different styluses will be more or less sensitive to these things. But - above a certain very low (e.g. Crossley) threshold, and generalising slightly - it's more often the higher-end cartridges which are more sensitive to these things; a entry level MM cartridge (say, an Ortofon 2M red) is liable to be less sensitive than a decent MC cartridge, since they're less sensitive generally. You'll get a lot more detail, particularly in the higher frequencies, with a decent MC cartridge, but this can cut both ways, and it'll be more sensitive to noise than a more basic cartridge (this is a bit of a generalisation, since stylus profile is also a factor, but again, the 'better' profiles tend also to be more sensitive). Similarly, if your phonostage has a poor high frequency response, then pops, clicks, and crackles are all going to be less obvious. In general, then, I think that better equipment is actually liable to expose you to more noise, which is why it becomes more important to keep your records nice and clean.
    This is why I said "on ALL of your new records." Yes, some pressings will have flaws straight from the factory. But if every new record you buy sounds bad, it's the equipment. Or, as you said, you're not properly cleaning.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by otnavuskire View Post
    This is why I said "on ALL of your new records." Yes, some pressings will have flaws straight from the factory. But if every new record you buy sounds bad, it's the equipment. Or, as you said, you're not properly cleaning.
    Oh for sure. I just wanted to combat the myth (that's rife on discogs) that a preponderance of this kind of surface noise - snaps, crackles, pops - is likely due to poor equipment. Above a very low quality threshold, it isn't. Though of course, with poor equipment you're liable to get other forms of noise - various kinds of distortion, rumble etc. And so if, as you say, things always sound bad, that is a likely culprit.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    Trent releases Quake on vinyl.....And people are bitching and moaning about no download code.
    Trent releases new shirt designs.....And people are bitching and moaning about the sizes of the shirts.

    Starting to see why this guy despises a large portion of the fanbase
    This coming from the guy who is ALWAYS complaining about something...

    When it comes to download codes, I think all anyone is asking for is a little consistency. Broken, Downward Spiral, Deviations 1 and the With Teeth remaster came with them. Many records come with them. In this day and age, why is it so hard to give people an option? It's also pretty disappointing when you consider how Ghosts I-IV was released twelve years ago. Deluxe editions, various digital formats, and CD and vinyl for everyone. Granted, that was an independent release and Trent probably had more control over that, but it's still frustrating to see it go like this, especially when other artists (with way less money at their disposal) are able to do it with relative ease.
    Last edited by BRoswell; 09-23-2020 at 10:38 AM.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    This coming from the guy who is ALWAYS complaining about something...

    When it comes to download codes, I think all anyone is asking for is a little consistency. Broken, Downward Spiral, Deviations 1 and the With Teeth remaster came with them. Many records come with them. In this day and age, why is it so hard to give people an option?
    Given their history, I'm assuming there's a good reason why they haven't come with download codes (something legal around licensing perhaps?), so maybe they should just say why they don't on the product listing?

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascender View Post
    ...so maybe they should just say why they don't on the product listing?
    They should at least tell you on the page that it doesn't include the option to download. I don't really need an explanation why (I can come to my own conclusions about stuff like that), but considering the precedent that was set with previous releases, it seems a little sneaky to not say anything about it.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by otnavuskire View Post
    If you have lots of pops, clicks, and crackles on all of your new records, that's your equipment, not the records.
    No, the point is you're rolling the dice every time you purchase a vinyl that things could possibly sound bad. There's plenty of vinyl releases with terrible reviews for quality. If I'm going to support a format, I want consistency. Did every record I played sound bad? Of course not. But I had enough times when it did that I gave up on the format. I never got a CD or a digital file that was pressed shittily.

    And that's my problem with vinyl, quality wasn't consistent enough, arriving unscathed wasn't consistent enough, audio noise wasn't consistent enough. Who wants to drop a bunch of money on a chance that this may be a crappy pressing. I'm a music lover, not a gambler. My Tomorrow's Modern Boxes was a crappy pressing. I don't wanna deal with the hassle of having to argue with customer service for a replacement. I don't got time for that nonsense. And just like the people who are mad about the Quake vinyl not having a download code when every other reissue did... no consistency.

    And, again, I don't like my music broken up into bite sized sections where I gotta get up and switch sides or switch records altogether every frigging 15 minutes. That's why I prefer The Fragile CD edition. The way songs flow into each other. It feels like a real journey. On vinyl, it's like a journey where every 15 minutes someone is stopping to take a selfie or take a piss. The flow and experience is ruined. The smell or feel of picking up a vinyl record does not enhance my journey whatsoever.

    For me, the negatives outweigh the positives with the vinyl format.
    Last edited by neorev; 09-23-2020 at 11:18 AM.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    For me, the negatives outweigh the positives with the vinyl format.
    All perfectly reasonable. Vinyl is a fetish, and - though I'm a fetishist myself - there are lots of good reasons not to get into it.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    They should at least tell you on the page that it doesn't include the option to download. I don't really need an explanation why (I can come to my own conclusions about stuff like that), but considering the precedent that was set with previous releases, it seems a little sneaky to not say anything about it.
    They kinda' already did that but in a reverse logic from what you are thinking. All that include a download, it is stated in the product description. "SELECT YOUR CHOICE OF DOWNLOAD FORMAT UPON EMAIL RECEIPT." So, if it's not listed in the product description, then there is your answer.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmitchell86 View Post
    So, if it's not listed in the product description, then there is your answer.
    But again, there's a precedent that's been set by previous releases having them. If you include them with previous releases, people are going to assume that's a standard feature whether or not it says so on the page. A simple "Download Code Not Available With This Product" would solve the problem.

  12. #312
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    I wish they'd go back to Columbia Records, as I thought "Welcome Oblivion" was the perfect vinyl release.

    UMe is my second place since FLAC downloads were included in the confirmation email & they had a download code with minimalist artwork on the reverse side.

    Capitol Records takes last place since their vinyl didn't include the minimalist art & no FLACs for WATCHMEN. That said, they did a killer job with the WATCHMEN vinyl releases & I hope they get recognized for a packaging/soundtrack grammy.

    At this point, I am comfortable in my music piracy by purchasing the vinyl release for the artwork & liner notes and then stealing the high-res digital files to play on my devices and home stereo.
    Last edited by FULLMETAL; 09-23-2020 at 05:30 PM. Reason: props for watchmen

  13. #313
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    UMe is the only choice available for Interscope releases.

    Regarding digital downloads provided in the confirmation email, that’s entirely a retail outlet decision (i.e. the NIN Store), not record-label dependent. Email confirmation downloads were provided for UMe, Capitol, and Columbia releases, as well as some that may have been on other labels too (soundtracks).

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post

    Capitol Records takes last place since their vinyl didn't include the minimalist art & no FLACs for WATCHMEN. That said, they did a killer job with the WATCHMEN vinyl releases & I hope they get recognized for a packaging/soundtrack grammy.
    I don't think Capitol had anything to do with the Watchmen soundtracks, those were Null Corporation / UMe, just like Bird Box Extended.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    I don't think Capitol had anything to do with the Watchmen soundtracks, those were Null Corporation / UMe, just like Bird Box Extended.
    No, it was actually Capitol for all 3.

    https://nincatalog.com/trent-reznor-...-vinyl12-1586/
    https://www.reddit.com/r/nin/comment...s_insert_card/

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Ah, I must have missed that line on those cards. Thanks! Universal Music Group owns Capitol and UMe anyway, so it's a bit of a distinction without a difference, but well spotted.
    Last edited by botley; 09-23-2020 at 08:52 PM.

  17. #317
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    The difference is UMe includes download codes, but Capitol Records does not.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post
    The difference is UMe includes download codes, but Capitol Records does not.
    Quake is UMe and no code.

    Add Violence and Bad Witch are Capitol and include codes.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Quake is UMe and no code.

    Add Violence and Bad Witch are Capitol and include codes.
    I didn’t feel the need to buy Quake on vinyl, so that’s news to me. However, I’m looking through my AV & BW vinyl and do not see any download codes.

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post
    I didn’t feel the need to buy Quake on vinyl, so that’s news to me. However, I’m looking through my AV & BW vinyl and do not see any download codes.
    They did provide download codes for AV and BW

    https://nincatalog.com/add-violence/

    And although I don't have it noted on the nincatalog site, here is the email i got from Bad Witch Order

    "Thanks for ordering from us. This email confirms your order of the following items:

    BAD WITCH LP + TEE + BUTTON PACK + SLIPMAT + MESSENGER BAG - MP3 / XL x 1"

  21. #321
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    Yes, if you purchased AV & BW from NIN.com you received a digital download. That ties back to @TheBang's comment here #314. That's not what I'm talking about.

    If you purchased AV & BW from a record store, you didn't get a download code (unless you purchased in the UK and got one from thesoundofvinyl.com).
    Last edited by FULLMETAL; 09-24-2020 at 03:21 PM. Reason: circling back

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post
    If you purchased AV & BW from a record store, you didn't get a download code (unless you purchased in the UK and got one from thesoundofvinyl.com).
    Sorry, I didn’t realize only the UK copies got the code inserts.

    Quote Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post
    I didn’t feel the need to buy Quake on vinyl, so that’s news to me.
    I’m actually holding out a sliver of hope that the US copies of Quake will include a code insert. I don’t think any US copies have been received yet.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    I’m actually holding out a sliver of hope that the US copies of Quake will include a code insert. I don’t think any US copies have been received yet.
    I don't think that's going to happen, unfortunately.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    I never got a CD or a digital file that was pressed shittily.
    I guess you've never heard an album produced by Rick Rubin then.

    Jokes aside, I agree that music should be released digitally in lossless formats, and each TR release that moves further from that is increasingly disappointing to me. I have a vinyl collection, and I purchased the Quake and TSN records, but more than that physical copy I would like that remastered audio on my hard drive. In this particular case it may be a ridiculous legal thing, but with the relative difficulty of acquiring FLAC versions of Watchmen just before this, I'm just hoping that we're not moving towards a new normal of mp3s and vinyl being the only options. I'd still buy them, but it would be a glaring flaw in my collection.

    I'm pretty sure that won't be the case though.

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    I guess you've never heard an album produced by Rick Rubin then.
    Oh snap!

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    I guess you've never heard an album produced by Rick Rubin then.

    Jokes aside, I agree that music should be released digitally in lossless formats, and each TR release that moves further from that is increasingly disappointing to me. I have a vinyl collection, and I purchased the Quake and TSN records, but more than that physical copy I would like that remastered audio on my hard drive. In this particular case it may be a ridiculous legal thing, but with the relative difficulty of acquiring FLAC versions of Watchmen just before this, I'm just hoping that we're not moving towards a new normal of mp3s and vinyl being the only options. I'd still buy them, but it would be a glaring flaw in my collection.

    I'm pretty sure that won't be the case though.
    Yeah, same. I like the vinyl experience for the artwork and I like hi-res digital flac files for the best audio I can get.

    I have been trying to improve my vinyl experience, but no matter what i do I get so much noise, even after cleaning the records. It's a lot of fuss.

    I do love the idea that vinyl has a longer shelf life than any digital format though. It's nice to know that I have this music for a lifetime. But I often imagine what could be done outside of the norm. I actually LOVED the physical component for that reason. I think more should be done in that direction. Visuals can take whatever form you want them to now, to accompany the digital files.

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max View Post
    I have been trying to improve my vinyl experience, but no matter what i do I get so much noise, even after cleaning the records. It's a lot of fuss.
    What sort of noise? And how are you cleaning them? If you're getting a lot of noise on everything then the problem might not be dust/debris in the grooves. If the noise is a lot of popping then maybe you have a static problem.

  28. #328
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    Ah yes, "tracking down where that noise is coming from". It's a lot like riding a bike in that you only notice it while it's in motion and you can't do anything about it then either, just stop moving, make adjustments, and try again.

  29. #329
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    I feel like it's really easy for the whole experience of listening on vinyl can easily turning into "listening on vinyl" activities that never end, and not actually being able to just listen to the record. Like Do I have the right equipment, am i cleaning it right, why is there noise, why is the record wobbling, is this a good print of the record in the first place... before you know it you are a crazy old Gandolf-looking audiophile in a Hawaiian shirt who never actually listens to records for what they are saying, but just for how it sounds. I feel the pull sometimes, but it makes me realize this is way more complicated than it needs to be and i run back to digital.

  30. #330
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    Amazon currently has a promotion for buy 3 for price of 2 on select items, including vinyl and some NIN albums are part of this: The Downward Spiral, With Teeth, Not the Actual Events, Add Violence, The Fragile: Deviations 1, Watchmen: Volume 1, Watchmen: Volume 3

    I'm not sure if this is just for Prime members!

    *10/17 edit - TDS and With Teeth are no longer part of the sale*

    *10/19 edit - that's a wrap!*
    Last edited by halo eighteen; 10-19-2020 at 09:08 AM.

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