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Faceplams: Ohh yeah, you gotta experience it, with your fucking phone turned off!Originally Posted by Reaps
Throbbing Member
Ohh yeah, you gotta experience it, with your fucking phone turned off!
Throbbing Member
I like both CD and vinyl. CD's are great for the Jeep and the vinyl has a nice warm sound, (at least on my set up.) I still play CD's on the HiFi too, I have a huge collection (gen X'er here.) But I have a nice connection to vinyl as in HS my brother and I where into the DJ scene. I wouldn't back scratch on my uTurn belt drive TT but listening to vinyl takes me back to my younger days for sure. So yes, I'm the guy that would buy both formats, hands down no problem.
On a side note, should this thread be moved to somewhere more visible? It's a little weird buries in the score section… just my opinion.
Active Member
As cool as the Definitive Edition of The Fragile is, I still prefer the mixed/blended original CD version, though I do hate how 10 Miles High cuts out after the intro. 10 Miles High is one of my favorite Fragile era tracks. The way the album tracks flow into each other, it really adds to the whole journey feel, which I feel is kinda missing in the vinyl edition and its constant breaks between tracks. I wish Trent would do a CD continuous mix kinda version but also include 10 Miles High, The New Flesh, and Appendage.
Active Member
As someone who's a fan of NIN, and has listened to them on EVERYTHING (except cassettes. fuck cassettes), I actually do find a fuller, deeper sound when listening to good vinyl on good headphones. The sonic elements seem to have...I don't know...more space, is the best way I can put it.
But, however TR decides to release his music, I'm going to find a way to listen. I don't care what format it's on.
Again, except cassettes.
Fuck cassettes.
Active Member
Aww, they still have their place...in memories. I still remember lying next to my cd/cassette player in the dark listening to my dubbed PHM cassette. I think that was the only thing I listened to for a solid month.
Throbbing Member
Cassettes weren't really given a fair shake - most cassette decks were not particularly good, and pre-recorded cassettes were not good either. However, a home recorded cassette made on a decent deck can sound really rather nice.
As an aside, I'm actually quite sceptical about the longevity of the vinyl revival for similar reasons - a lot of the decks that have been flying off the shelves as part of the recent boom are pretty terrible Crosley-type machines, while the pressing quality of a lot of new vinyl is pretty iffy. Once the novelty wears off I suspect a lot of people will decide that actually their vinyl rigs sound inferior and will lose interest. A shame, because - like cassette - when it's done well it sounds fantastic.
words.exe
As much as I love the DE reissues, I think The Fragile in particular would be a great candidate for a truly definitive digital/CD release that has the full vinyl track list +appendage, uses the extended versions of the songs from the vinyl, keeps the Decay half of Ripe, and retains the CD crossfades.As cool as the Definitive Edition of The Fragile is, I still prefer the mixed/blended original CD version, though I do hate how 10 Miles High cuts out after the intro. 10 Miles High is one of my favorite Fragile era tracks. The way the album tracks flow into each other, it really adds to the whole journey feel, which I feel is kinda missing in the vinyl edition and its constant breaks between tracks. I wish Trent would do a CD continuous mix kinda version but also include 10 Miles High, The New Flesh, and Appendage.
Almost certainly just a pipe dream at this point, but why not dream?
Banned
Theres a reason CDs obliterated vinyl in the 80s/90s. They sound better. They are less expensive. They take up less space. None of those things have changed with the vinyl "resurgence". Eventually people will lose interest in vinyl and this resurgence will slowly fizzle out. Heed my words. 5 years from now vinyl will be on the back burner and CDs will once again reign supreme. I already have several friends who jumped into vinyl head first 2 or 3 years ago and they already got burned out with it
Take this Bird Box vinyl for instance. 80 bucks for the vinyl plus another 60 bucks for shipping in some cases. 140 dollars for something that also takes up several feet of space. For the grand old price of 20 dollars you could have a double CD that takes up 10 inches of space that sounds better....
The artists that seem to be doing "vinyl only" are boomer Neil Young types and the artists who seem to do "streaming only" are mumble rappers and pop artists. Trent seems to be stuck in the middle. His apple friends wrongly told him CDs are dead and the aging Gen X'er in him once again has a hard on for vinyl. It still blows my mind the narrative vinyl is in and CDs are out lmao. In 2019 CDs outsold vinyl by 116%. CDs at their lowest and vinyl at its peak and its still not even an issue. Its just niche collecting. I guarantee half these NIN fans on this forum slobbering all over their vinyl weren't even listening to vinyl 10 years ago until master Trent told them its cool. I just hope Trent isn't stupid enough to release future NIN albums on vinyl only because that would be a fucking disgrace.
Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 11-29-2019 at 05:58 PM.
Administrator
His "friends" that told him CDs are dead are probably his accountants, dude. Spreadsheets are hard to argue with.His apple friends wrongly told him CDs are dead
Nine Inch Nails fans have always been ahead of the tech curve - NIN's CD sales dropped off as digital downloads and streaming were simplified. No one at Apple had to tell Trent that, he could see it himself on Oink and What and on Napster before that.
Ten years ago? In 2009, if you wanted a copy of The Fragile on vinyl, you paid about $300. Year Zero, YZR, The Slip, and Ghosts had all been released on vinyl and selling well in that medium. It's not that people didn't like vinyl, it's that it wasn't financially accessible to most fans. While I suspect that vinyl sales took a hit in the 90s because that's what happened everywhere, by 1999, NIN fans were actively seeking out vinyl, whether or not Trent told his stories of listening to LPs as a kid. You've crafted a narrative in your head that doesn't follow reality, dude.I guarantee half these NIN fans on this forum slobbering all over their vinyl weren't even listening to vinyl 10 years ago until master Trent told them its cool.
I don't know if the vinyl compulsion will continue - these things take up a lot of space, and let's not even talk about the sustainability issues behind the manufacturing - but CDs are not coming back.
Throbbing Member
Okay I'll bite.
'Sound better' is debatable. Speaking for myself, having invested pretty heavily in both digital and analogue playback, I can say that each does some things better than the other. What I think is true is that you don't need to spend so much to get CDs to sound passable. But why bother when you can have a digital media player which, in terms of sound, can wipe the floor with any comparably priced CD player. I do agree though, for the reasons I mentioned above, that the vinyl revival is more fragile than tends to be acknowledged. But I think your prediction that CDs will make a comeback is wildly optimistic, to say the least. I know how you feel though - I was a big fan of the minidiscIt'll be interesting to see sales figures for 2019 - I'd expect a further contraction, but we'll see.
On vinyl only releases, actually they've been around for a long time and kept the pressing plants in business during the years when most people had abandoned the format. If it hadn't been for persistence of a small but robust market for vinyl only releases - mostly in electronic and experimental music - the infrastructure would not have existed for the revival to get going.
Active Member
Okay, but you forgot about the part where CDs were the best way to listen to music on the go back then, which isn't the case anymore. A lot of people don't care about collecting a physical medium these days; they just want to listen to music, and streaming lets them do that. I have no idea what the state of vinyl will be in 5 years, but there is no way CDs will "reign supreme" ever again. They may even become the #1 physical medium again, but everything from paperwork, money, music, books, movies and video games is being moved to digital these days and will continue doing so.
Shit, I don't know if I know a single person who buys CDs on a regular basis anymore. I know a handful of people who collect vinyl, but I'd say 90% of my friends haven't purchased music in physical form in a few years.
Stubby Member
If it's a band I really like, I usually by a copy on CD and a copy on vinyl. Otherwise, just CD...or digital if that's the only option. I prefer to have something official though. Of course, then I end up adding them to my portable blu-tooth player.
Throbbing Member
On the topic of TR and vinyl only releases, worth noting that the very first nine inch nails release was initially vinyl only. DII was originally issued just as a 12" - which, as early interviews make clear, was TR's plan. The CD version of DII was released after the release if PHM to capitalise on its success.
Throbbing Member
To everyone on this thread, I think we are on the same page here in how we feel overall for the most part. But...
I will say a lot of people are starting to realize that "Digital Only" is not all that it's cracked up to be. Case in point... all the people that have lost digital movies and music in services like Apple and Amazon due to licensing issues. Games on PlayStation and Xbox for the same reason. Hell, not everything makes it to the digital services anyways. Having the physical medium is the only full prof way to ensure you can continue to enjoy what you bought. I understand the reasoning behind digital only but, what you're really buying there is an extended license (for how ever long that lasts.)
As for vinyl and CD, I'm the fuckit kind of consumer. I'll buy both if available or either or. I really don't care, whatever is available. I am a product of the 90's and have always had both CD's and vinyl (partly because I was into the DJ scene) even tapes (but seriously, fuck tapes, I've had to many tapes "eaten" even on nice clean tape decks.) Tapes can sound good but way to many moving parts to be reliable... Anyways back to my point... CD's are great for the car and vinyl sounds great on my HiFi but I'll play CD's on my HiFi system as well and I'll stream stuff because I don't have everything (although I wish I did, haha.) All the technical issues aside between CDs and vinyl can be overcome by proper care, cleaning/ handling and usage. It goes both ways (ever hear a CD skip?) I will say I treat burned CD's like shit as I can recreate it. Official bought CDs, I treat them like GOLD just like my vinyl, very carful to not scratch them. Digital is convent but not forever (unless you download your purchases and upload them to a paid cloud service so you never have to worry about a failed hard drive because you give a shit about what you bought. Of course anyone who's doing that would treat vinyl and CDs appropriately because, they give a shit.)
On side note, do I use to many parenthesis?
I think the real conversation here should not be between CD and vinyl and which is better but, physical and digital and how that will work for you.
Active Member
My question here: Why can't we buy a book of artwork and a digital download? If the physical artwork is so important (and I happen to agree - I miss the days of leafing through the cd artwork), why the hell can't the physical artwork be sold at an LP scale in addition to the download? This way you have high quality sound combined with the physical element which wouldn't be as damaged as vinyl? The books would tolerate delivery better, non? This negates the elitist mindset that I think the vinyl route has. I have neither the money nor the space nor the time for vinyl - sue me: it isn't compatible with my life. Yet I do miss the moments in time I have for contemplative listening with a physical component. But I'm not beholden to CDs, nor do I think streaming is the way forward for artists like NIN. Give me another option. There has to be a middle ground.
Throbbing Member
Those are all excellent points.
However, if one buys a vinyl with a digital download, a CD isn't really needed. With the NIN related releases, you can also get a high quality FLAC or WAV download. One could listen to the files, and use the vinyl as the physical package.
What it boils down to is the CD potentially being a cheaper option, but it doesn't give you any benefits that the vinyl/digital package doesn't already have.
Banned
CDs never went away. Outsold vinyl by 116% this year. CDs will NEVER turn into cassettes or even VHS and become obsolete. They may slide but even at their lowest selling, they still sell the most units. Nice Billboard article about how labels are rethinking CDs.
https://www.billboard.com/articles/b...physical-music
A couple of years ago all we heard about was how blu rays are obsolete and streaming is everything. Now you hear more and more about film collectors collecting blu rays because they prefer physical media. Eventually the same will happen with music. The masses will eventually realize what hardcore collectors already know. That physical media is important. The love for physical media will never go away from hardcore film/music collectors. That is why DVD/CD/Blu Ray and yes vinyl will always have a market because there will always be enough hardcore music/film collectors who want the physical product.
The real battle shouldn't be CD vs Vinyl. It should be physical media Vs streaming......I cant take someone serious who tells me they are a Joy Division fan and their entire Joy Division collection is on a fucking icloud. gtfo
The people buying CDs in 2019 are no different than the people buying vinyl in 2019. They are mostly hardcore music collectors who prefer physical media as their main preference....The casual music fans are the ones who bailed on CD and don't listen to vinyl and who flocked to streaming as their main preference (For the most part. Some serious collectors may prefer digital because it takes up less space/they travel a lot but the majority of stream 1st people are casual music fans)
Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 11-29-2019 at 10:52 PM.
Throbbing Member
Actually, despite your repeated attempts to stoke one, there shouldn't be any kind of battle at all. It doesn't really matter what you can or can't take seriously. Collectors of physical media do not exhaust the pool of people for whom music is a hugely important part of their lives. I know plenty of serious music lovers who stream more or less exclusively. Physical media is a fetish - one I willingly partake in, but a fetish all the same. It used to be the only way that people could access the music they loved, and so it wasn't just supported by folks like me that also like physical things. But now there are more convenient options, and so the fetishists are being left behind. Denigrating people who prefer streaming as "casuals" is both insulting and inaccurate. Your claims about the future of CDs sales are pretty wild - sure, they probably won't go away, but will they bounce back? Almost certainly not, precisely because these days you can be a serious music lover without having to amass a collection of shiny plastic discs (or anything else).
.net (24.24.2.1447)
Computers rarely have CD drives built in anymore. Hifi CD players have been a niche product for decades already. I'm fairly sure CD walkmans haven't been manufactured for years. Sure you can buy affordable USB CD drives. I do. But I don't know anyone else in person who does. CDs are on an inevitable decline into obscurity.
Active Member
Really?? It's this kind of elitist crap that I can't stand.
Not everyone has tightly knit lives that afford the space for physical media.
I'm thankful for digital because I lost all of my physical components about 10 moves ago. Just because I don't have a stack of CDs or vinyl doesn't make me any less of a fan of any band.
Active Member
Then why are computer companies beginning to remove optical drives from their units?
I'm not saying that CDs are about to suddenly blink out of existence, but to say that they're not on a decline is silly.
Last edited by BRoswell; 11-30-2019 at 09:08 AM.
Throbbing Member
CD makes no sense. Digital FLAC files are better sound quality and vinyl has superior artwork. CD’s should go away. Trent offers the best by giving you both for one price. He understands the best that each format offers and is giving his art the best platform possible.
Throbbing Member
One more thought about this - every artist cares about HOW their work is received. A painter doesn’t want their painting hung up in a Wendy’s bathroom in Macon, GA. An actor wants you to see their film on the big screen, not in a degraded mp4 on a flip phone.
is Trent some kind of pretentious asshole for caring about the medium that his work is presented on? No, he’s an artist, which is why most of us are here. Otherwise we’d be listening to streaming singles from the latest pop one hit wonder entertainer. That’s not who we are though. we came for the art. So show some respect for the artist. If you can’t afford everything, great. Me neither. That’s okay. Don’t like the medium? Accept it. Find another artist to love if this isn’t your thing.
its not all about consumerism. It’s about art. Gripe and moan or let yourself be challenged and taken on a journey. I choose the latter.
RA-MEN ROPPAI
Yeah, that's trash gatekeeping logic. It's the "I own everything released by a band and have seen them live 420 times, so that makes me the biggest fan" argument.
I couldn't tell you Trent Reznor's birthday off the top of my head. Guess I'll go lurk BTS forums.
.net (24.24.2.1447)
Not true.
Banned
They are definitely on the decline. But they will never go the way of Betamax/cassette/VHS where it becomes obsolete.....The worst case scenario for CDs is they may turn into what vinyl turned into in the 90s. On the decline but still with enough of a market to never go away
Administrator
Don't quote me and say "CDs never went away" - according to the RIAA, there were about as many CDs sold in 2018 as there were in 1987.
Also folks, you can't just say "FLACs sound better than CDs" - many FLACs are CD rips, and are identical to CDs. Some FLACs have better fidelity, and in some cases that's the end result of a new transfer with modern mastering, but it's got nothing to do with the format itself.
Memb, Member, The Membest
Yeah, FLAC is a container. It can be 11 kHz mono cellphone recording of mp3-sourced cassette playing in car.
CD is a container that can sound the same - only in above example it will upscale 11 kHz to 44 and play mono on 2 channels.
Medium itself is no guarantee of fidelity.
It's shame that neither DVDs nor BluRays turned into consumer-friendly music format, though.
I'd love to be able to play Ultimate Definitive The Fragile (or, realistically, just Deviations which, ahem, exists. Or Ghosts. Or Dragon Tattoo. Or fucking Stadium Arcadium) through without changing discs. I promise to turn off my fucking phone.
Last edited by BenAkenobi; 12-01-2019 at 01:20 AM. Reason: words
RA-MEN ROPPAI
This. I know quite a few people, myself included, that still burn DVD's and BR's of hi-res music.
Throbbing Member
Indeed. At the end of the day, it's art. It's between the artist, the piece, and the person who listens to it. The artist presents his creation a certain way, he drops it into the world. And then it's up to anyone to do whatever they want with it.
What's at the center of that ? The piece itself.
Whatever the way its presented is, accept it and appreciate it as an integral part of the art, or just take the music alone.
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