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Well, I read this on the film's Wikipedia page: "Director Todd Phillips said that he intentionally left it ambiguous as to whether Arthur becomes the actual Joker as seen in traditional Batman stories or inspires a separate character"Originally Posted by Haysey
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Saw it, great movie. The whole incel thing was much ado about nothing.
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Hate the idea of the latter being true.
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Was pretty good. I'd watch it again.
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Everything I could want from one of these stand alone comic book movies is right here.
Borrows from and homages some of Scorsese’s best offerings. Phoenix is always superb but this is a high point to end this decade on. How many actors get a decade with performances like I’m Still Here, The Master, Her, Inherent Vice, You Were Never Really Here and this? He’s one of the best we’ve got and the whole supporting cast crushes it as well.
Gorgeously shot. I love how those wide angle establishing shots almost make Gotham look beautiful from afar but up close it’s as dilapidated as the city in Seven. There are some images in this that stand out as the most memorable in a while.
The whole incel bullshit is just that, this is a movie about poverty and income inequality and a drastic lack of empathy and mental health services. Maybe some media outlets are sad they didn’t get the powder keg they hoped for.
I think it’s amazing that this year we got these wild turns from Hangover alumni with Mazin making Chernobyl and Phillips making this. I would have never guessed that franchise would lead to these amazing works. This isn’t for everyone but this is the first comic-based movie in a while to remind me that they can be actually great movies divorced of franchises and they don’t have to all feel like bloated action and humor heavy commercials for the next installment. Phoenix adds a sense of humanity that sells the whole thing and it’s his film from beginning to end. Really hoping this leads to more of these daring and stand alone versions of well-known characters.
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I have no idea why incel was brought into the conversation. It's almost like people imaged this being another movie. Shame on reviewers who gave the impression that this movie was all about that.
Small complaint--I wish that the actual soundtrack with the songs used was available, not just the score. It was a really cool mix of stuff.
she/her/hers
i think it's because the joker became an icon for those types of dudes on places like 4chan, and people worried that making a gritty/realistic version of the joker in a movie where he incites violence would rile up those who already idolized the character. it's not that far fetched, especially given how little it takes to set off the people who tend commit mass violence (or even smaller acts of violence), but i think it's also a bullshit "let's blame the movies" stance.
that said, phillips' "you can't make comedy anymore because everyone gets offended so that's why i made a non-comedic movie" remark is bullshit. just write better comedy, dude.
This Cannot Continue
That would make SO much more sense to me, the film did feel it was less "THE" Joker and more "A" Joker. Like if the actual Joker came along and murdered Arthur and assumed all his followers and thus given himself a pretty good cover story to keep his background secret. I dunno if the film does enough to support this though, but it would make the film work a lot better for me.
As a side note if anyone wants this Joker poster DM me and i'll figure out a way to get it to you, i don't really want it and it would be a shame to just throw it away.
This Cannot Continue
Not sure that'll happen now, i didn't initially pick up on it but they most defiantly used a Gary Glitter song towards the end, and thats a BIG NO NO...at least here in the UK.
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fun fact: I worked at the theater where a certain family is running out of towards the end of the movie. I live about 15 mins from many filming locations in this movie in Jersey City and Newark NJ. I saw them shoot some scenes.
Behold the morning star
I have to say, three key elements to this magnificent film. Phillips, Phoenix, and the beautiful and talented Hildur Guðnadóttir.
I’m comparing her score to John Carpenters Halloween. I don’t think the movie wouldn’t have had the same impact if it wasn’t for her score. That , matched with Phoenix performance was a match made in Arkham.
I can’t wait to see this again.
This movie is going to look glorious on 4k. Shot on film, no cgi, wonderfully lit and shot. I can’t wait.
Also, this movie comes back into my head and small details about why Arthur is the way he is creeps back into my head and gives me that feeling again. Best part is, you don’t know if any of it was real.
Last edited by Conan The Barbarian; 10-07-2019 at 06:19 AM.
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Did anyone else feel that the score was a little too loud at times?
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Do you know if any of the film was shot in NY? The theater he goes into to meet Thomas Wayne looked EXACTLY like the King's Theatre in Brooklyn to me.
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Yes it was loud but it didn't bother me. It added to the tension. Spoiler: One point in the movie where I stopped my suspension of disbelief is when Arthur is at the Murray's show and confesses to killing three people. If I was the producer of the show I would had stopped it right away, don't know why they kept on rolling the cameras. Or were the policemen that were chasing Arthur so badly beat up that they couldn't alert other policemen about this guy almost to be confirmed the killer of the three yuppies? (this is something I could actually believe, that the policemen were in a coma or something). How come Gary, the little person, did not alert the police right away, after witnessing that murder??? What I'm trying to say is that Arthur should have been stopped long before he shot Murray. All these things kinda took me out of the movie.
Last edited by cahernandez; 10-07-2019 at 01:17 PM.
Throbbing Member
Really thought the movie was great. I did think certain parts were loud, of course on purpose, and one scene actually frightened me -when the gun went off in the subway, not saying there was a gun around me but it was just really intense. Also while dealing with depression in my life it made me feel even more depressed, so I guess that’s good....I enjoyed how they actually surrounded some of the atmosphere with the actual comic book Batman, you know cause the movie is called joker and the laugh was fantastic. I tried to imitate the laugh but failed miserably.
Last edited by Rdm; 10-07-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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It was filmed in NYC too, not just Newark & JC.
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I can't take more than five seconds of those guys.
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yes.
Newark Theater, and Lowe's Classic Theater (the one I used to work at) used. some areas of Journal Square (in jersey city) and Dowtown (JC) were used. lot of exteriors of Newark street shots, mixed with NYC.
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I love when Mike and jay disagree this much; makes for a better episode. There were like 2 or 3 times where Mike was just like "nope. You are wrong", and I have to agree. Seemed like Jay had a bone to pick with the film, and Philips in particular, which made it impossible for him to enjoy it. I feel like I usually agree with Jay more, but I'm 100% with Mike on this one.
Last edited by imail724; 10-08-2019 at 09:58 AM.
Quiet Member
This movie is amazing. I felt really bad for Arthur and despised him as soon as he became the violent, psychotic Joker. Joaquin Phoenix, what can I say? Probably my favorite actor ever.
Clickbait media completely exaggerated in the violence thing. Deadpool, for example, was much more violent. But well, Marvel and Disney are simply shielded from any criticism or controversy anyway. ALWAYS playing itself helps a lot in that regard obvisouly.
I love that this movie exists. I love this movie was made in this era of over-senstiveness. I love how the media was desperately wanting mass shootings to happen during Joker sessions but nothing so far.
Throbbing Member
What a fantastic, gripping film. I felt uncomfortable during some of it which was rare for me during a film. Terrific acting from Joaquin Phoenix.
I think the incel thing is totally ridiculous - if anything the film holds a mirror right up to what's going on in the world right now, societal and political. That's what I took away from it anyway.
The Virus Inside
Really enjoyed this film. Solid 8/10. haven't seen too many movies this year which I've really liked, but this was such a well made film. I'm shocked Jay didn't like it as much either. I couldn't really see eye to eye with his criticisms. Oh well. I enjoyed it. That's all that matters in the end.
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I love Red Letter Media!
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I really liked it, once I let go that this is not a movie 100% about the iconic villain. I had some major gripes with it, but as a stand alone movie this was a thrilling ride that reminded me alot of "Falling Down" and "The Machinist", with a little "Taxi Driver" thrown in there aswell.
No words need to be said about Phoenix acting. This was just brilliant. You could really feel his pain when laughing which made for the most unsettling part of the movie on my end.
I too have to agree that the media is seeing something in this movie, that I truly can't. Maybe I'm alway too detached from movies knowing that this is fiction I'm seeing, but while the movie made me feel uneasy at times and was very gripping, I can't see how this might inspire anyone more than comic books, books, video games and other movies. It's the same old rule: don't seek explanations in the arts. If the seed is there, it will bloom either way.
Now let's dig in. What else did I like?
Spoiler:
- Phoenix of course. This man is brillaint and unsettling in what he does. The laughter might be the best Joker laugh since Hamill, yet I would have wished for it to be more iconic towards the end. As Arthur becomes the Joker, I would have liked to see him be more in control of his condiition. Yet this was amazingly done either way!
- The degree of violence was perfectly balanced. It felt harsh and real when it happend. True outbursts instead of a mindless gore-fest. No John Wick moments that made you laugh in the face of death, but just true and cruel brutality on both sides.
- The soundtrack really elevates most of the scenes and reminded of some of Hans Zimmer's takes on the Joker. Eventhough these soundscapes are being used in pretty much every horror or psycho thriller these days, it fit very well in here.
- The last line was glorious!
What did I not like? Alot, but does it matter? Not really...
Spoiler: - Alot of people will hate this movie as it shows the Joker in a totally new light. Personally I see it as a one-shot comic book that allows a different view. Is Phoenix THE Joker? Is anyone THE Joker? This character is too ambigious and too old in comic book history to have a definite portrayal. Personally I think Mark Hamill's Joker is the best, even the Arkham games pay the character tribute in a way that clicks with me the most. But still, Phoenix manages to portray a thin line between loser, loner, charismatic murderer and cheerful trickster. The scene where he mocks the beaten up police man? The scene where he shoots the last business guy? When he confronts the camera after shooting Murray? THAT's where I was: "Wow, it's him!"
- I really don't like when characters faults are the cause of childhood trauma. While this might be the case for a lot of shortcomings in our society and for people to carry a burden, it's a rather boring explanation for a supervillain. In light of the film and what it wants to portray, it certainly fits. But this is an aspect I don't really like in this particular setting. For this character I would have wished for a true downfall instead of being risen in poverty and terrible circumstances.
- The connection to Batman was not enjoyable at all to me apart from the pole sliding. Why was Alfred such an asshole? And unfortunately I highly dislike Brett Cullen as an actor, but I'm glad it didn't go to Baldwin... Still, to shoehorn the Waynes into this movie fell a little flat in my eyes. I guess it all made sense in the end, but did we really need to see the murder in crime alley again?
- I wish the Joker himself would have been a little funnier at times, maybe more of a comedian indeed like in "The Killing Joke". I would have loved to see him struggling on stage more rather than getting beaten up by kids. He was a little bit too much of a loser for me with not alot of composure. Then again, there were scenes where I felt, "Yes, that's Joker and yes, that's the man who will rise to become Batman's biggest foe!". It was a little unbalanced for me as the scene with Murray could have been a little bit more tense. I would have liked Joker to be more in control and not feel so akward before shooting Murray. Then again, it serves the movie that it wants to be, not necesarily the Batman/Joker lore. He's still part Arthur, part Joker and not the fleshed out villain he will become.
- While I adore Zazie Beetz I didn't really get why that story thread had to be in the movie. The scenes with here were nice and enjoyable, but ultimately not necessary for the story imho. Or did these indeed subconciously give the film a lighter note when needed? Fill me in what you think guys!
Somebody above mentioned that he loves that this movie exists in these particular times. And I have to agree wholeheartedly. While I didn't like many aspects this one felt fresh, altough movies like this used to be made in the past. Let's hope they return!
Alot to dislike if you have a clear image of what the Joker should be in your mind. Yet as a standalone movie, this was magical. I felt terrible afterwards yet comically alive. Do I want to see it again? I don't know. Will I see it again? Probably.
Behold the morning star
I have to disagree with some criticism over if this is joker or not. It’s been stated that this is just a telling or what comics fans call an “ elseworld “ tale. Phillips did a great job adding bits and pieces of jokers throughout the film and always points to the panel in killing joke when joker talks about his origin. One person ( not here) mentioned how 79 years of joker lore made it feel like they missed the point of joker. As if the viewer completely missed the point that it’s just a different version and not a comic cannon version of the character.
Keep in mind that Arthur is the narrator here, and he is unreliable when it comes to his perspective. Which is why I don’t think Thomas Wayne is the asshole he is made out to be, it’s just that what Arthur thinks of him.
The beauty of this movie is that it makes you think what’s real or not. So many theories coming from fans. Phillips has mentioned one day he will explain what they were aiming for, but for now doesn’t want to ruin the viewers experience.
Edit: I didn’t want to double post, but fantastic job on Jaquin really getting pseudobulbar down in the movie and Phillips for writing it in. They sorta brought awareness to this condition
After watching this, I really do sympathize with this who suffer from this.
Last edited by Conan The Barbarian; 10-10-2019 at 07:53 AM.
Behold the morning star
Sorry for the double post,
https://gocreativeshow.com/cinematog...lawrence-sher/
God is an American
Not to my world. And it sounds like the world this film inhabits isn't a world I'm interested in seeing mirrored.
Behold the morning star
Behold the morning star
I feel like people go full stupid when either trying to act progressive or just have some sort of chip on their shoulder when it comes to this movie. I have never seen this shit with any film.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/m...ntroversy.html
This is fucking ridiculous.
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