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Thread: Joker

  1. #31
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    The more harrumph-ing I see from over-sensitive white people (of which I can be sometimes) about this, the more I want to see it. It is just a movie, and there are way bigger fish to fry in the world honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    We're all here because of a particularly transgressive band. I think it's a goddamned miracle that TDS hasn't been blamed for suicides.
    Didn't a congresswoman call NIN basically a rap group citing the lyrics of "Big Man With a Gun"? He has sold a lot of records and concert tickets, but it is kind of remarkable how Trent avoided some of the more stickier controversies people like Marilyn Manson and a few other groups did in the 90's. He put out such a transgressive image and sound, but wasn't as roundly reviled by the moral majority morons and the religious right.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by onthewall2983 View Post
    Didn't a congresswoman call NIN basically a rap group citing the lyrics of "Big Man With a Gun"? He has sold a lot of records and concert tickets, but it is kind of remarkable how Trent avoided some of the more stickier controversies people like Marilyn Manson and a few other groups did in the 90's. He put out such a transgressive image and sound, but wasn't as roundly reviled by the moral majority morons and the religious right.
    Manson was a much easier target to go after with his music videos and imagery. As known as NIN was, Manson's image was way bigger and more in your face. NIN didn't constantly shove it in your face like Manson did. It was easier for the news to take a pic of Manson or some video clip and make him out to be a monster promoting the world to murder. The news loves this shit. They eat it up. They'd rather put us all in danger just so they can get a "scoop" that'll attract viewers.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post

    Something else: did anyone think, before hyping this film up as being possible inspiration for these incel fucks, that doing so might actually inspire someone to do something stupid? Putting that kind of discussion out there is more dangerous than the film if you ask me.
    AMEN brother!

  4. #34
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    I could care less about the "controversy," but...

    I gotta say, I'm not sure I really needed a Joker origin story in my life. There's something about whole idea of giving him this lame backstory that sort of deflates the character for me. It's like how Darth Vader used to be menacing and intimidating, and then we all saw the prequels and found out that he's actually just this annoying little idiot underneath that suit.

    As it is, Joker's campiness makes him a challenging character to depict in a cool way. The Ledger/Nolan approach is probably the best way to handle it, just making him an enigma of wild chaos with no logical origin story whatsoever. This emo "humanized" victimy sob story just seems kinda dumb and misguided. To me, this kind of backstory horseshit has a way of making characters LESS interesting and less iconic.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    annoying little idiot underneath that suit.
    NooooOOOOooOOoOOOoOooOoooOOooooOOOOooOoooooo! *takes a bow*

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    I could care less about the "controversy," but...

    I gotta say, I'm not sure I really needed a Joker origin story in my life. There's something about whole idea of giving him this lame backstory that sort of deflates the character for me. It's like how Darth Vader used to be menacing and intimidating, and then we all saw the prequels and found out that he's actually just this annoying little idiot underneath that suit.

    As it is, Joker's campiness makes him a challenging character to depict in a cool way. The Ledger/Nolan approach is probably the best way to handle it, just making him an enigma of wild chaos with no logical origin story whatsoever. This emo "humanized" victimy sob story just seems kinda dumb and misguided. To me, this kind of backstory horseshit has a way of making characters LESS interesting and less iconic.
    to me, the Joker has become something akin to, idk, a tarot card. He's like a new archetype.

    Therefore, there can be endless iterations and interpretations.

  7. #37
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    I guess it all comes in to where you appreciate the character from. I can totally understand people who like him mysterious. That's something I loved about The Dark Knight; his background changed. Like a joke.

    I think this is taking a tragic angle to the character, similar to the Killing Joke, and I think it's worth an exploration. We'll see how good or bad it is. It's got some weight in its hands though. If it drops this ball....

    BUT... I hope it's dark as hell, intense, and I hope it pisses off everyone who's clutching their pearls.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    I could care less about the "controversy," but...

    I gotta say, I'm not sure I really needed a Joker origin story in my life. There's something about whole idea of giving him this lame backstory that sort of deflates the character for me. It's like how Darth Vader used to be menacing and intimidating, and then we all saw the prequels and found out that he's actually just this annoying little idiot underneath that suit.

    As it is, Joker's campiness makes him a challenging character to depict in a cool way. The Ledger/Nolan approach is probably the best way to handle it, just making him an enigma of wild chaos with no logical origin story whatsoever. This emo "humanized" victimy sob story just seems kinda dumb and misguided. To me, this kind of backstory horseshit has a way of making characters LESS interesting and less iconic.
    I'm with you on this one.

  9. #39
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    I have my ticket for Sat. Regardless of how it's being received (and hopefully nobody is inspired to actually do anything stupid at screenings) i'll give it a fair shake, i like the character, but only as foil for Batman. Anything (so far) with him not fucking with the Bat just hasn't done it for me.

  10. #40
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    Got our IMAX tickets for Sat. afternoon. Can't wait!

  11. #41
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    You guys are lucky! This isn't the case often but this time you earlier than Europe. Will have to wait until October 8th to see it, but I'm really psyched.

  12. #42
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    I can't believe that anyone is suggesting this movie will make crazies do crazy shit. Like at all. Even more so that it's apparently a real thing. Haven't checked outside of the comments I've read here. This sort of thing is how we let the terrorists win. We all gonna act like we've forgotten about Natural Born Killers? Come on now.

    Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

  13. #43
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    I think some folks are just merely making an observation for the potential that this movie would be an understandable rallying point for 4channeers and alt-right kekimanian douchebags, it's something they can see themselves in and find an excuse or justification for their shitty behaviour. This doesn't have to mean the movie must be scrubbed from existence, I just won't be surprised if the sewage of humanity makes a symbol out of this is all.. kinda like how ammosexuals and ooo-rah America like The Punisher so much.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelastdisciple View Post
    I think some folks are just merely making an observation for the potential that this movie would be an understandable rallying point for 4channeers and alt-right kekimanian douchebags, it's something they can see themselves in and find an excuse or justification for their shitty behaviour. This doesn't have to mean the movie must be scrubbed from existence, I just won't be surprised if the sewage of humanity makes a symbol out of this is all.. kinda like how ammosexuals and ooo-rah America like The Punisher so much.
    dude, I hope not. I hope the alt right doesn't commandeer the joker. Fuck. But you certainly might be right. These are strange, nasty times.

    Aside from that, what ALSO wouldn't surprise me is a copycat Dark Knight shooting. My brother and them lived close to that theater for awhile, and just seeing it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

    I won't be catching this shit in theaters, that's for damn sure. :/

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    dude, I hope not. I hope the alt right doesn't commandeer the joker.
    Hate to break it to you dude, but we're not putting that genie back in the bottle. I still see that image crop up now and then.

    Alt angle from the same period.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Hate to break it to you dude, but we're not putting that genie back in the bottle. I still see that image crop up now and then.

    Alt angle from the same period.
    oh, fuck me. I forgot about the Obama thing.

    What I'M afraid of, though, is the joker becoming some sort of right wing mascot.

    The whole vibe, to ME, though, seems to be more nihilistic than political. We'll see.

  17. #47
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    This whole conversation is just so weird to me, ive always been left leaning and I grew up in a time where the left was the champions of free though and speech. If a film like this came out in the 90s, it would be the right that would outraged at it.

    I think a good majority of the so called alt-right are centeraliats that have been pushed away by some of the extream views the lefties have adopted (ie censorship) and feel like they have nowhere else to go.

    I usually dont wade into theses conversation, but this thread has gotten me thinking.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    This whole conversation is just so weird to me, ive always been left leaning and I grew up in a time where the left was the champions of free though and speech. If a film like this came out in the 90s, it would be the right that would outraged at it.

    I think a good majority of the so called alt-right are centeraliats that have been pushed away by some of the extream views the lefties have adopted (ie censorship) and feel like they have nowhere else to go.

    I usually dont wade into theses conversation, but this thread has gotten me thinking.
    I think it's worth noting that calls for outright censorship are from an extremist portion of far-left people. For example, I'm as liberal as they come and I don't think the government should be stepping in to shut this down or anything like that. I do, however, think that studios have a moral obligation to compare their content to the current climate and ask themselves if it's really such a great idea to release something at a specific time. For example: a few years ago, a crazy old asshole killed his mother, dumped her body in the basement, set the house on fire, then started murdering the first responders.

    The same week or month, some cop-drama show was supposed to have a huge episode that was all about...well, basically the same thing. The network or production company or someone decided - without even being asked - to pull that episode, because they realized it wasn't a good look. They realized there were obvious parallels between that and a real tragedy, and they decided that the very real grief that would be caused by essentially glorifying that behavior was not worth the profits, so they just ran a rerun that night. Movie studios could do the same thing. I mean, how many fucking superhero movies are there already anyway? Have an original idea for a change. Maybe one that has a remotely positive message.

    *shrugs*

    (edit: after re-reading, I realized that an extra "h" turned "worth noting" into "worth nothing", which greatly changed my point.)
    Last edited by theimage13; 10-01-2019 at 09:32 PM.

  19. #49
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    Thing that scares me is that if this film had come out 6-7 years ago there wouldn't have been much of anything to get worried about, it's that in the last few years the absolute WORST people have found their collective voice, through various chan forums and the darker reaches of the internet and even some more mainstream outlets, and will actively use this kind of film as inspiration to do fucking unthinkable shit. When Natural Born Killers came out anyone that looked to the film for inspiration were looked at as isolated nut jobs, now they have their own fucking set of followers online...that fucking scares me!

    I don't want films like this to not be made, but we also have to take a wider look at what's happening in the world when we make them.

  20. #50
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    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...?origin=web-hf

    The director literally just admitted that the problem at hand is real, and that he's guilty of it. His actual reason for making Joker: it was too hard to make a comedy because people are realizing that the really offensive shit people used to rely on isn't actually funny, so instead he made a movie about a guy feeling sorry for himself (i.e. someone in his position) going out and becoming a psychotic murderer because he couldn't get what he wanted.

    How do you not see why people are a little concerned about the tone of this?

  21. #51
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    I hope this movie won't inspire men into becoming murderers same way I don't want Captain Marvel to influence women on becoming moronic humorless men-haters.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthier View Post
    I hope this movie won't inspire men into becoming murderers same way I don't want Captain Marvel to influence women on becoming moronic humorless men-haters.
    While I haven't yet seen Captain Marvel, movies with female leads are not automatically misandric.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthier View Post
    I hope this movie won't inspire men into becoming murderers same way I don't want Captain Marvel to influence women on becoming moronic humorless men-haters.

    Found the future Joker.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...?origin=web-hf

    The director literally just admitted that the problem at hand is real, and that he's guilty of it. His actual reason for making Joker: it was too hard to make a comedy because people are realizing that the really offensive shit people used to rely on isn't actually funny, so instead he made a movie about a guy feeling sorry for himself (i.e. someone in his position) going out and becoming a psychotic murderer because he couldn't get what he wanted.

    How do you not see why people are a little concerned about the tone of this?
    I think its because outrage is a commodity. I think its something that has been a commodity for a while, he told the Wrap. Whats outstanding to me in this discourse in this movie is how easily the far left can sound like the far right when it suits their agenda. Its really been eye-opening for me."

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...?origin=web-hf

    The director literally just admitted that the problem at hand is real, and that he's guilty of it. His actual reason for making Joker: it was too hard to make a comedy because people are realizing that the really offensive shit people used to rely on isn't actually funny, so instead he made a movie about a guy feeling sorry for himself (i.e. someone in his position) going out and becoming a psychotic murderer because he couldn't get what he wanted.

    How do you not see why people are a little concerned about the tone of this?
    I'm much more concerned about his "woke culture" comment to be honest. Dude sounds like yet another out of touch older gentlemen who's pissed because nobody's interested in films featuring jokes that come at the expense of minorities. Fuck off with that noise. God knows what kind of morons he's activated with those comments.

    At this point, with all this controversy, I've lost most of my interest in seeing the film right away. I'll just play it safe and watch it when it comes out on Blu-ray.
    Last edited by BRoswell; 10-02-2019 at 12:46 AM.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pillfred View Post
    “I think it’s because outrage is a commodity. I think it’s something that has been a commodity for a while,” he told the Wrap. “What’s outstanding to me in this discourse in this movie is how easily the far left can sound like the far right when it suits their agenda. It’s really been eye-opening for me."
    ...the fact that extremists can sound crazy no matter what they're pushing for was eye-opening? Sounds like a bright fella.

    (To be clear, there are radical left ideas that I hate just as much as radical right. Just saying...how is that breaking news to anyone?)

  27. #57
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    Marcus Theatres in Bloomington went ahead and changed their bag policy because of this movie. The article, however, is not very comforting. The first place they talk to, Landmark Cinemas, is a hotbed for high school fist fights. That's not exactly the place I want telling me everything is going to be okay. I've witnessed fights where the security was outnumbered, and they hung back waiting for police backup.

  28. #58
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    Go to about 8:00 if you wanna feel the most awkward you've felt in a few days...


  29. #59
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    This is all absolutely ridiculous.

  30. #60
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    It's odd that he would agree to have that footage played and then act all weird about it. I am assuming that he agreed to it.

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