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Thread: Graduating from NIN

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    Graduating from NIN

    So, a thing that I've noticed now that I'm basically an old man is that a lot of my old friends who were also into NIN when we were teenager, no longer listen to NIN. When I've asked them about it, the answer is generally something along the lines of "I grew out of that stuff".

    But I never did. NIN have remained my favourite band for 20+ years now, and I'm yet to hear anything else that even comes close. It makes me wonder if I'm stuck in a state of arrested development (although I do think that NIN basically grew up with me). But it occurred to me to ask ETS, see whether others had the same experience, or whether they even had kinda moved on from NIN themselves but still stuck around because they remained at least slightly interested in NIN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slopesandsam View Post
    So, a thing that I've noticed now that I'm basically an old man is that a lot of my old friends who were also into NIN when we were teenager, no longer listen to NIN. When I've asked them about it, the answer is generally something along the lines of "I grew out of that stuff".

    But I never did. NIN have remained my favourite band for 20+ years now, and I'm yet to hear anything else that even comes close. It makes me wonder if I'm stuck in a state of arrested development (although I do think that NIN basically grew up with me). But it occurred to me to ask ETS, see whether others had the same experience, or whether they even had kinda moved on from NIN themselves but still stuck around because they remained at least slightly interested in NIN.
    I'd wager that a lot of (but not all) people who "grow out" of NIN are probably growing out of music in general. While people's tastes change as they age, another thing that happens a lot is that people become less interested in music as a whole. The average age that Americans stop seeking out new music is around 30-32 years old. You'll see a lot of people that only listen to what they listened to in their youth, along with people who pick a handful of bands to follow as they age. A lot of the time that's where the misplaced anger you see online comes from when an older band changes their sound. It's people who have stuck with that one band and ignored new music who are now without the sound that they've dedicated their listening habits to.

    That said, some people also just change with age. There's definitely stuff I don't listen to now that I listened to when I was younger, and not all of it is strictly because it's bad and I've realized it with maturity, but because it just doesn't strike me the way it once did. And there's nothing wrong with that.

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    A lot of people (myself included) came to strongly associate certain phases or elements of NIN's work with an era in their life; a youthfully angry, or yearning, or rebellious part of themselves, which they saw reflected in the lyrics or artistic attitude. Then, some people let that part of themselves shrink and wither, and perhaps feel that everything attached to it has to drop away: those are the people that supposedly "outgrew" NIN and bands like it. They can always reconnect later in life, however.

    On that note, I have a weird fantasy that there will be people in nursing homes one day listening to cuts from Pretty Hate Machine and The Downward Spiral for music therapy on some weird futuristic headgear, using it to help trigger memories in the later stages of dementia. Personally, I'm looking forward to arguing with my cranky old audio friends who can't hear shit above 2kHz anymore about which mastering is better to use in 2081's low-atmosphere conditions.
    Last edited by botley; 09-25-2019 at 09:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    A lot of people (myself included) came to strongly associate certain phases or elements of NIN's work with an era in their life; a youthfully angry, or yearning, or rebellious part of themselves, which they saw reflected in the lyrics or attitude. Then, some people let that part of themselves shrink and wither, and feel that everything attached to it has to drop away: those are the people that supposedly 'outgrew' bands like NIN. They can always reconnect and come back to it later in life, however.
    That makes sense. I had a pretty happy childhood, did well at school, got along with my parents, etc. So even though I was listening to and loving stuff like TDS and TF (and Manson, Tool, etc), the emotions expressed on those albums didn't reflect emotions I was feeling at the time. I could see how someone who felt like those albums served a specific purpose emotionally could feel like they'd grown out of them once they'd moved past that stage of their life. Possibly even those albums would only serve to remind them of a time that they'd prefer not to dwell on anymore.

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    I saw a comment on Youtube the other day which said that NIN was an "entry-level" band. Got me thinking that maybe my taste was immature, but then again, NIN has shown a great deal of maturity recently, especially in Hesitation Marks and the Trilogy.

    Listening to songs like The Background World and While I'm Still Here make me think that these people have no idea what they're talking about. Entry-level to what, exactly?

    Seems like many of these people just hear one album or one song and don't bother to explore anything further than the hits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    I saw a comment on Youtube the other day which said that NIN was an "entry-level" band. Got me thinking that maybe my taste was immature, but then again, NIN has shown a great deal of maturity recently, especially in Hesitation Marks and the Trilogy.

    Listening to songs like The Background World and While I'm Still Here make me think that these people have no idea what they're talking about. Entry-level to what, exactly?

    Seems like many of these people just hear one album or one song and don't bother to explore anything further than the hits.
    Don't let these people get to you, I assume that the person in question meant that NIN was an entry-level to "Industrial" music. NIN is credited as bringing this harsh sound to the public and some people don't like that. It is true that Trent's song-writting was far more mass-appealing and acessible than say Skinny Puppy, I don't think anyone's gonna deny taht. But I think Trent did an amazing job at applying pop-songwritting while still keeping that harhs sound to his music and still having interesting experimental structures in certain songs, he knows how to write tracks which go away from rules and experiments but he can also write singles and hits which appeal to many, that doesn't matter to some people though, they didn't like the sound of Industrial being made acessible and having big hits I assume.

    Even if Trent himself was displeased with the Industrial label the media gave him, it doesn't matter, when the majority whom haven't dwelved deeper into the genre hear the word "Industrial" most would say "Nine Inch Nails", which annoys the ones who are passionate about the said genre, which is understandable honestly as NIN isn't straight-forward "Industrial" in the likes of "Throbbing Gristle", I do believe that NIN is "Industrial Rock" or Industrial Metal" (depends on the album), but calling that "Industrial" is like calling Sonic Youth "Noise" and not "Noise Rock".

    NIN itself shouldn't be dismissed due to that, but some people most likely would due to the reasons stated above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    A lot of people (myself included) came to strongly associate certain phases or elements of NIN's work with an era in their life; a youthfully angry, or yearning, or rebellious part of themselves, which they saw reflected in the lyrics or artistic attitude. Then, some people let that part of themselves shrink and wither, and perhaps feel that everything attached to it has to drop away: those are the people that supposedly "outgrew" NIN and bands like it. They can always reconnect later in life, however.
    I reconnected. I listened from a young age until high school, PHM - TDS. Wandered off came back for WT and YZ, then wandered off until NTAE came out. I've spent the last year or so going through things that I missed, and I probably listen to NIN every couple of days or damn near every day. It's a comfort for me during some seriously fucked up shit going on. But this is the outlier - it's the only music from my youth that I still consistently listen to.

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    I think I graduated to different more recent NIN for the bulk of my listening (YZ, the Trilogy, some scores). But I still get awed when I go back to the classics. Last week, it had been at least a year (maybe a few ) since I listened to the TDS all the way through (actually listening and not just as background). I came away thinking, "is there a better three song sequence than Closer Ruiner The Becoming? Why don't I listen to this more often?"

    NIN's also no longer the band I listen to the most at the moment (that would be Gunship). However that's been true for many points in my life, but if you take any 5 year period, NIN is still probably in the lead for most average airplay.

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    Most adults find no joy in abstract art, their minds prefer straightforward presentations and formats.

    That is why many adults stop listening to old and new NIN, but keep Pearl Jam on repeat.

    I have a very eccentric side to me which makes standard presentations and formats mind numbing. I have to admit even the new Tool album isn't all that amazing, I too can jam out for 12 minutes playing various scales and hammers on my guitar. However, MJK is killer. I prefer Puscifer.

    For us, it was and continues to be about the music; for the others it was about a real life Eric Draven sans makeup who pushed the boundaries of the scene in 1994, and gave us Marilyn Manson. Unlike adults, youth are capable of experimenting and trying new things, they also seek out anything with a bit of angst... etc...


    Humans are too easily impressed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HurtinMinorKey View Post
    (that would be Gunship)
    Not to hijack this thread or anything but I just checked out Gunship (Thank you @HurtinMinorKey !)

    Pretty good but more importantly, it is kind of hard in an older age to find new music. This could be a contributing factor to how people in our generation are falling off music listening. It's hard in the ever changing medium. MTV is gone and that was a pretty key medium for kids of the 90's to find new music. I've never heard anything like Gunship on any radio station plus that medium is all pre-programed, airtime paid for non-sense. I know that is not much different from MTV back in the day but at least MTV was willing to push boundaries of what was acceptable. Radio stations are only pushing shit that will keep advertisers on board. Streaming services are not all that much better. How come pay for Spotify and I stream stuff like nin, TOOL, NOFX, Depeche Mode and Slipknot and my front page keeps showing me Drake and other rappers who's music is in no way relatable to anything in my playlists? Are any of these paid streaming services really digging into my playing habits to recommend music that would be good or would be able to relate to?

    All these music outlets ignore about 99% of new music. I know it's out there but how do I find it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmitchell86 View Post



    All these music outlets ignore about 99% of new music. I know it's out there but how do I find it?
    Use spotify for 6 months and it will learn and adapt to you. I'm blown away sometimes by how well it knows my taste and the songs/artists Spotify introduces me to, old and new.

    Just yesterday it played 'Lovesong' by Sonic Jihad for me, I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THIS SONG and I instantly added it to my favz.


    This week Spotify introduced me to 'Andy Stott' which is like HTDA met up with Squarepusher and did acid.
    Last edited by snaapz; 09-26-2019 at 03:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snaapz View Post
    Use spotify for 6 months and it will learn and adapt to you.
    Thanks, that's good to know. I've been on Spotify for about a month and a half now and was starting to get to the WTF point and cancel. I've give it more time.

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    I'm 47 and I don't understand this notion of "outgrowing music" except maybe people into boy-bands (but, again, if you still enjoy it, so what). I'm grateful that Trent has been even more prolific in the later stages of his career (as opposed to the long droughts between his first few albums). Further, to me, he keeps pushing the limits and I enjoy each new entry, while still enjoying his early works. On a somewhat related note: I've often feared that I'd someday reach an age where I was one of those old guys, complaining that nobody makes good music anymore. Fortunately, for me, the fear is still unfounded: I continue to find interesting, new bands over the years. I love music, old and new, and if that means I am experiencing "arrested development" so be it.

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    From around my mid 20s to my mid 30s I went through a phase of feeling like I'd outgrown nine inch nails, but thankfully I outgrew it.

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    i'm older than dirt (58) & Trent is about my favorite musician at this point. he's been near the top for me since TDS & i really freaked on TF. when Bowie passed, Trent went to the top of the mountain for me. so lucky i saw the tour with both of them!

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    The problem is putting the ego forward a bit too much. To "outgrow" doesn't mean anything with art, it's almost pejorative. You don't outgrow "this stuff", but you can outgrow the person you were when you connected to a certain music of a certain someone, though. Your self is based on previous you in all its existence, much like all the NIN albums are the continuation of the previous albums.

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    I'm 22, while there are certainly albums/artists I outgrow (Simple Plan lol), a lot of stuff from my youth staid without qny shame and I found a new found appreciation for them.

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    If you've outgrown it... remix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizfan View Post
    If you've outgrown it... remix it.
    Brb remixing Simple Plan's "I'm Just A Kid" to make it more Industrial

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    I found NIN from the Crow soundtrack my older brother had. This was, I think, about 2002 or 2003 and I was 12-13 years old. Then in 2005 With Teeth came out and I became a fanatic fan listening to everything in the back catalog and collecting everything I could get my hands on (not really that easy living close to the polar circle in small, little Finland). I was super into YZ ARG and everything but as I grew older I found myself listening to more and more calmer music. I found acoustic folk music at about 16 years old and as NIN and Manson and other rock acts started to fade in interest, the folk scene grew and grew. Today I listen to about 90% modern folk and then the other 10% miscellaneous pop, rap etc. But very little rock these days (29 years old). I just gets too stressed out from listening to screaming, both vocals but also screaming guitars and other instruments. I once in a while goes back to NIN or Slipknot and blasts a couple song but more than that is just too much and I have to put on something calmer.
    So I kinda "outgrew" them. Or just found another version of myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FRDU View Post
    I found NIN from the Crow soundtrack my older brother had. This was, I think, about 2002 or 2003 and I was 12-13 years old. Then in 2005 With Teeth came out and I became a fanatic fan listening to everything in the back catalog and collecting everything I could get my hands on (not really that easy living close to the polar circle in small, little Finland). I was super into YZ ARG and everything but as I grew older I found myself listening to more and more calmer music. I found acoustic folk music at about 16 years old and as NIN and Manson and other rock acts started to fade in interest, the folk scene grew and grew. Today I listen to about 90% modern folk and then the other 10% miscellaneous pop, rap etc. But very little rock these days (29 years old). I just gets too stressed out from listening to screaming, both vocals but also screaming guitars and other instruments. I once in a while goes back to NIN or Slipknot and blasts a couple song but more than that is just too much and I have to put on something calmer.
    So I kinda "outgrew" them. Or just found another version of myself.
    Did you then, or do you now, find yourself responding at all to stuff like Still or Ghosts or the soundtrack stuff? Nice to hear from a Finnish fan!

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    This has occurred to me as well, but it's so easy to just wash away that thought by remembering how much of an impact this band has had on my life. I'm 37, and have been a fan since I was - 12? 13? - I don't recall exactly, but somewhere around '94-'95 right when TDS was out. They became my favorite band so quickly after, and nothing has ever changed that. I've moved on to a lot of different musical tastes over the years, but NIN has consistently remained my "desert island" band, and I don't ever see that changing. I have those friends that used to be fans of the mainstream singles, etc, and still are, but nobody I'm close to consistently revisits the entire discography. Most have "moved on" for one reason or another, like you said, but I don't see it as a matter of holding on to the past, or immaturity; I see NIN as something that has been a consistent inspiration, comfort, and excitement to me, so I love holding on to it. It's basically become a hobby that I always look forward to. Like revisiting a favorite film, or re-reading a favorite book. On top of that, I'm always looking forward to the new stuff, whether it's the EP Trilogy or the latest soundtrack work (fair enough if you're not as excited by the soundtracks), because it means new content, new sounds, and something new for me to experience.

    In addition to that, how many bands/artists reinvent themselves as much as Trent? I talk to so many people that love The Downward Spiral, but hate Year Zero. Or love Pretty Hate Machine but don't like anything after, etc etc. It's exciting to have so many albums to revisit covering 30 YEARS of material, all of which sound so different. And it's OK if there's some you don't like. I don't revisit The Slip as much as The Fragile, but I still enjoy it. I like Bad Religion, but you could make the argument they have barely changed their sound in 30 or 40(?) years. I think there's a place for both of these types of artists, but I tend to gravitate toward reinvention of sound because it's more interesting, and I like variety. I think that's a huge reason why I still find NIN so appealing. If every album sounded like TDS I probably wouldn't listen to them as much.

    So yes, I know exactly what you mean and have just decided who gives a shit I absolutely love this band and this material and it's so much more than what the casual fan has the impression it is. When I talk about going to a NIN show or a recent release half the time I hear "they're still around?" and I have to remind myself oh yeah I'm a diehard fan and a lot of casual fans have no idea of the depth of this catalog, which is too bad for them but whatever. I enjoy the music and ironically, it makes me happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Did you then, or do you now, find yourself responding at all to stuff like Still or Ghosts or the soundtrack stuff? Nice to hear from a Finnish fan!
    I've always had difficulty listening to instrumental music so never really been a fan of Ghosts or the soundtracks. Still has been played quite a lot. Especially a couple years ago I had a period when I listened to it pretty much. But even that doesn't really cut it for me that much. It's more of a nostalgia thing when i listen to it. The folk/singer-songwriter scene just calls to me more these days.

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    If being a mature adult means listening to folksy acoustic singer songwriters and nothing else then just call me a child, I’m happy with that!

    To be fair I don’t think it’s anyones intention here to imply they’re more mature or adult than anyone else but that’s the implication of the phrase ‘to grow out of’ and that’s why I dislike it as a phrase and concept when related to popular culture. The first pop album I ever heard in its entirety was Dare by The Human League when I was 8 and I still love it

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorzelG View Post
    If being a mature adult means listening to folksy acoustic singer songwriters and nothing else then just call me a child, I’m happy with that!
    I did absolutely not mean that listening to harder music is for children. I just found myself growing towards a different sound. That's why I used quotation marks on the word "outgrew" as I'm not sure about that being the correct word to use. I just found myself liking this other genre a lot more. For me a lot of it also has to do with letting go of the teenage angst I had and not being so pissed off at the world all the time. I've always been searching for a inner calm and I'm a lot closer to that with calmer music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FRDU View Post
    I did absolutely not mean that listening to harder music is for children. I just found myself growing towards a different sound. That's why I used quotation marks on the word "outgrew" as I'm not sure about that being the correct word to use. I just found myself liking this other genre a lot more. For me a lot of it also has to do with letting go of the teenage angst I had and not being so pissed off at the world all the time. I've always been searching for a inner calm and I'm a lot closer to that with calmer music.
    Yes I didn’t think that’s what you actually meant but I don’t see NIN as this really hard band or about teenage angst even, I was 19 when I got into them in the Pretty Hate Machine era. To me NIN were the bridge between synth pop of my youth and the harder rock and metal I was getting into, they brought me back to synth pop and electronic music - like people talk about how hard Broken is like its the most tough to listen to music of all time, and I’m thinking ‘have you ever heard Slayer?’ ???

    also I’m already a really calm and patient person. I’ve never really had that ‘this really spoke to me personally’ reaction to any music. Like some people say they have to Nirvana. A lot of 80s synth pop to me was about escapism and getting out of the humdrum reality of life. (Like Duran Duran were my favourite band in my teenage years and it did make me want to travel but I wasn’t personally identifying with the lyrics, I just loved to sing them) I just love the music outside of myself and I like getting other perspectives on life that aren’t mine, through books as well as music

    Hmm sorry not sure why I felt the need to share all that but this topic just got me thinking about music and why I like what I like even now
    Last edited by WorzelG; 09-30-2019 at 03:29 AM.

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    As I get older, I find that the themes and ideas in NIN's music are not really age-specific. At any stage of life, we can all have shit that we go through and emotions that can be ugly. It's not human to be fully equipped at all times to deal with anything and everything that life throws as you. This is why art in the vein of NIN (or anything else that has some existential themes) can still speak to even a reasonably well-adjusted adult.

    I understand having a calmer or more positive disposition at an older age and not feeling that same connection with the music, but it's still possible to be on both ends of the spectrum, too. I'm a WAY better version of myself as I stare down the barrel of 40 than I ever was before. Even so, I still have times when I get emotionally fucked up, and I still have a vested interest in NIN for the artistry. NIN spoke to me HARD as a teen in the 90s, and it's always meant the world to me and been like a trusted old friend.

    Another point I'd like to make is that while a lot of bands from the same era as NIN arguably turned shitty or turgid at some point, NIN has always been pretty high quality. This makes it a hell of a lot easier to continue to be a fan. Compared to some of the other bands that I latched onto as a teen, like Pearl Jam or U2 for example, NIN have continued to move forward in a direction that doesn't ever feel forced or like pandering to a specific audience, even if it might not always feel "correct" to some fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slopesandsam View Post
    So, a thing that I've noticed now that I'm basically an old man is that a lot of my old friends who were also into NIN when we were teenager, no longer listen to NIN. When I've asked them about it, the answer is generally something along the lines of "I grew out of that stuff".

    But I never did. NIN have remained my favourite band for 20+ years now, and I'm yet to hear anything else that even comes close. It makes me wonder if I'm stuck in a state of arrested development (although I do think that NIN basically grew up with me). But it occurred to me to ask ETS, see whether others had the same experience, or whether they even had kinda moved on from NIN themselves but still stuck around because they remained at least slightly interested in NIN.
    This topic will always strike a nerve with me because I never believed that there was ever such a thing as being too old or too mature to listen to Nine Inch Nails, nor does it make any sense to me. Granted, coming from a person that still enjoys the stuff of his childhood and incessant nostalgia trips, could be as to why it make it all the easier for me to defend it.

    So, let's say a fan from the start was 11 in 1989 and enjoyed Pretty Hate Machine when it came out, becomes a huge fan for life.

    Fast-forward to right now, a good 3 decades later in 2019, and that same exact fan at 41, dedicated, loyal and committed has been enjoying Bad Witch since last year.

    It just makes it look like as if one should tell that 41 year old, "Sorry pal, but you surpassed the appropriate age limit to be a NIN fan a long time ago. No more NIN for you."

    Not to mention, it kind of undermines that fans that are also as old or even older than Trent Reznor himself, even if that weren't to necessarily be the intention.

    I'll still admit that I still find this topic to be interesting nonetheless though, because it helps me see how the same things can be looked at in so many different ways. (Which is one of the main points and overall purposes of a forum.)

    I've mentioned it a while back in the Random NIN Thoughts thread, but NIN songs to me can be relatable to all ages and not just people under 25, or people under 18. Hurt and Every Day Is Exactly The Same are still among the simplest, largest and overall best examples for this.
    Last edited by Halo Infinity; 10-12-2019 at 05:32 PM.

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