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Thread: NIN supports reproductive rights and Planned Parenthood. Get over it.

  1. #1
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    NIN supports reproductive rights and Planned Parenthood. Get over it.

    NIN posted on Facebook about the whole planned parenthood/Bans off my body movement, saying they support it, and it's getting some very heated comments in the comment section.
    NIN is mentioned on the list of supporting artists on the poster:


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    Those comments are W I L D. It always amazes me that a band rooted in political themes to the point of creating an WHOLE ENTIRE ALBUM ABOUT THE SUBJECT has "fans" who say shit like "stay out of politics".

    Where you been, bud?

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    Wow, it's mostly men lecturing women in the comment section about the evils of abortion. Color me shocked.

    I'd say a decent portion of NIN fans are so utterly deluded that they have created a Trent in their heads that flat-out doesn't exist. Where could they possibly get the idea that he would be anything other than pro-choice? He's talked about this, repeatedly, for YEARS. In fact, that article that the NIN Hotline released just the other day has Trent talking about abortion rights. That's from what, 1993? This is not new information, at all.

    The abortion thing wears me out, both as a woman and as a Christian working in ministry who gets bombarded with arguments about this day in and day out. I'm luckier than most because of the political diversity of my church, but still. If you are in evangelical circles this conversation literally never stops. It's exhausting to feel like you have to justify your bodily autonomy over and over again. It feels like there is a significant population of people who refuse to recognize your dignity simply because you are female. But it's never a rational, calm discussion about why pro-lifers disagree and looking together for ways to reduce unwanted or non-viable pregnancies through mutual understanding: it's just people telling you that you hate children and are a whore who should keep her legs closed. Want proof? Check out that comment section on Facebook.

    I know it's silly because I don't know Trent, but I'm grateful to him for this. I got a little weepy when I first saw it, and I feel like a goober admitting that but it meant a LOT to me. He had to have known some of his fans would shred him for it, but he did it anyway.

    If you are still lurking on here Trent, thank you.
    Last edited by eachpassingphase; 08-26-2019 at 05:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eachpassingphase View Post

    I know it's silly because I don't know Trent, but I'm grateful to him for this. I got a little weepy when I first saw it, and I feel like a goober admitting that but it meant a LOT to me. He had to have known some of his fans would shred him for it, but he did it anyway.

    If you are still lurking on here Trent, thank you.
    Its not silly to be grateful an artist you appreciate supports a common cause, especially this cause. Iím glad to see them in the list while at the same time disappointed the list isnít longer.

    Iím looking forward to his rebuttal.

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    Comments are the only reason I browse the interwebz and I realize how many basket cases there are out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cdm View Post
    Its not silly to be grateful an artist you appreciate supports a common cause, especially this cause. I’m glad to see them in the list while at the same time disappointed the list isn’t longer.

    I’m looking forward to his rebuttal.
    I hope he lays waste to them. He does not need their money or their permission to speak openly about his political views. He's an American with the right to vocalize his political views like everyone else. The "shut up and sing" crowd only seems to care when it isn't their views being shared. I don't spend hours stalking Billy Corgan's social media bitching about HIS politics (even though I find them repugnant). So why is the opposite end of the spectrum doing it to Trent?

    Honestly, the weird pushback he's gotten from a certain percentage of his fanbase lately is creepy. He got it when he called Trump an "asshole" in an interview as well. I remember when he would put pictures of Bush up on screens during shows and publicly air his grievances about how the government handled Katrina, if there were swarms of hyper-conservative fans bitching about that then I sure don't remember it. I remember non-fans clutching their pearls, but mostly fans dug it. Maybe it was just too long ago and I don't remember now. But it really does seem curious to me that he's getting so much push back so hard now. Almost like some fans swallowed the fascism pill REAL hard in the last few years who weren't even interested in politics back during With Teeth and Year Zero. Some of the profiles commenting have virtually empty or fairly new profiles as well, so there's some trolling happening as well.

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    I am as pro choice as anyone but when TR has been silent for 6 months and has not said a word about any sort of Fragile 20th anniversary special, nothing about Bird Box deluxe, nothing about new NIN or HDTA and makes zero social media posts on any forum and shows 0 interest in interacting with his fans via twitter/fb/ETS....But then breaks his silence by posting political stuff....Like dude, just fuckin release the 20th anniversary of The Fragile and the Bird Box deluxe. I could give a fuck about politics. Save that shit for Richard Patrick...*havent read the comments section yet. About to read it now. I am sure it is filled with enlightening feedback. L oh el*

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    A Trent "Go fuck yourself" appearance would be glorious right now. It's been about 18 months, right? I can't believe that it is 2019, and bodily autonomy is still considered a "political" issue.

    Oh man imagine all of them burning their NIN merch like they do with jerseys of athletes who dare to speak about anything but sports.

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    I think [the conservative fanbase] has always been there but it’s easy to ignore when it is lyrics or concert imagery that disappears in a flash. Spell your feelings out in a tweet or in an interview...that’s more tangible for some people, harder to ignore.
    Last edited by cdm; 08-27-2019 at 05:44 AM. Reason: clarification

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    I am as pro choice as anyone but when TR has been silent for 6 months and has not said a word about any sort of Fragile 20th anniversary special, nothing about Bird Box deluxe, nothing about new NIN or HDTA and makes zero social media posts on any forum and shows 0 interest in interacting with his fans via twitter/fb/ETS....But then breaks his silence by posting political stuff....Like dude, just fuckin release the 20th anniversary of The Fragile and the Bird Box deluxe. I could give a fuck about politics. Save that shit for Richard Patrick...*havent read the comments section yet. About to read it now. I am sure it is filled with enlightening feedback. L oh el*
    Thereís not gonna be a 20th anniversary of the Fragile dude. We just got the album remastered in 24/96 and 4LPís worth of bonus material also in 24/96.

    You want it yourself? Go to store.nin.com and buy both versions of the Fragile, unzip your downloads which you get immediately and fucking listen.

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    Twenty-Five Years Later, Oliver Stone’s ‘Natural Born Killers’ Is, More than Ever, the Spectacle of Our Time

    Works of art that were once radical tend to find their cozy place in the cultural ecosystem. It’s almost funny to think that an audience ever booed “The Rite of Spring,” or that the Sex Pistols shocked people to their souls, or that museum patrons once stood in front of Jackson Pollock’s splatter paintings or Warhol’s soup cans and said, “But is it art?” In 1971, “A Clockwork Orange” was a scandal, but it quickly came to be thought of as a Kubrick classic. Yet “Natural Born Killers,” a brazenly radical movie when it was first released, on August 26, 1994 (25 years ago tomorrow), has never lost its sting of audacity. It’s still dangerous, crazy-sick, luridly hypnotic, ripped from the id, and visionary. I loved the movie from the moment I saw it. It haunted me for weeks afterward, and over the next few years I saw it over and over again (probably 40 times), obsessed with the experience of it, the terrible lurching beauty of it, the spellbinding truth of it. It’s a film that has never left my system.
    read the rest of the article via the link on variety.com

    (this was posted on the official nin site but the news page is still totally fucked for me)

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    How can anyone who is a right wing evangelical Christian have got into NIN in the first place? Have they read the lyrics, it doesn’t even compute

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    I can only imagine the "fans" angry at Trent's stance on abortion are newer fans and the same people angry that politics are in their video games and that their comicbook movies have black/female leads now, there's no way they were around 12 years ago for the whole Year Zero tour.

    They are also idiots.

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    I laughed at how TR supposedly 'broke silence' with this. Last time I checked, NIN website broke silence two weeks ago with Woodstock anniversary tee, then again this week with new score news. But yeah, how dare they post anything else instead of updates on new HTDA and The Fragile XX that only exist in some fans imagination.
    Last edited by fillow; 08-27-2019 at 08:56 AM.

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    Fully in support that Trent has posted the PP message. I'm a male - but i don't understand why all these other people insist on enforcing rules on women - it's their bodies, they have to go through it, let them choose.

    The men who insist on 'pro-life' run to an abortion clinic the second the accidentally knock up their mistress anyway - bunch of hypocrites.

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    This thread is gonna be splitted again soon... and I will once again included in it... damn why am i posting this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haysey View Post
    ...there's no way they were around 12 years ago for the whole Year Zero tour.

    They are also idiots.
    Don't be so sure. It's definitely the latter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    I am as pro choice as anyone but when TR has been silent for 6 months and has not said a word about any sort of Fragile 20th anniversary special, nothing about Bird Box deluxe, nothing about new NIN or HDTA and makes zero social media posts on any forum and shows 0 interest in interacting with his fans via twitter/fb/ETS....But then breaks his silence by posting political stuff....Like dude, just fuckin release the 20th anniversary of The Fragile and the Bird Box deluxe. I could give a fuck about politics. Save that shit for Richard Patrick...*havent read the comments section yet. About to read it now. I am sure it is filled with enlightening feedback. L oh el*
    Facism, minority oppression, concentration camps, climate change - there are things more urgent that warrant our attention more than the 20th anniversary of The Fragile. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if he spent a lot of this year worrying about the fact that his loved ones are non-white and live in America rather than what funky bleepity blops go on the next album.

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    I read the comments in that NIN post on fb. 5K "NIN fans" cursing eachother out, insulting eachother and screaming bloody fuckin murder....Mission accomplished? Thats why I say when musicians talk politics, it does not lead to healthy intelligent debate. It leads to a shitshow of people on social media melting the fuck down. 100% of the time. If Trent read those comments after 5 minutes his eyes must be bleeding. Lars and Kirk from Metallica were talking politics nonstop 2 years ago and it lead to the exact same thing. All their fans attacking eachother on social media until Hetfield called them both in a room and told them to shut it the fuck down. No more politics. They havent said a peep since. If Trent thought his twitter escapades in 2009 were toxic, see what happens if he starts going political. It will be a fucking cesspool of hatred and shit and trolls and people screaming bloody murder at eachother. Who wants that garbage?

    My point about how we get no NIN news etc is more about how TR used to GLADLY interact with his fanbase. He used to post on ETS, he always gave updates on the NIN forums, he did Q & As, twitter etc. In the last several years he has made a conscious effort to stop interacting with his fans. My guess is he has Maynard levels of disdain and content for part of the fanbase and doesn't want to be bothered with them. He even threw ETS under the rock last year with a diss shot. So when he stays clear of social media because he doesn't want to deal with his lowly fans but only appears once a year to promote a political agenda or to ask for money for his friend Mike Garson (money Trent could have made tenfold if he held a benefit concert at the Palladium which woulda sold out in 5 mins)....it just looks bad.....If he was interacting all the time like he used to and did this stuff, its no big deal. But when you make it clear you want NOTHING to do with your fans on social media...except when you need money for a friend or want to promote political stuff, its like yeah ok.....How bout that Fragile reissue ? Speaking of which....




    Quote Originally Posted by tricil View Post
    There’s not gonna be a 20th anniversary of the Fragile dude. We just got the album remastered in 24/96 and 4LP’s worth of bonus material also in 24/96.

    You want it yourself? Go to store.nin.com and buy both versions of the Fragile, unzip your downloads which you get immediately and fucking listen.
    You mean those instrumental versions of the songs? So much better than demos and unreleased songs with vocals and SBD recordings of live shows....
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell; 08-27-2019 at 12:21 PM.

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    You got that right.

    Deviations > The Fragile

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    My point about how we get no NIN news etc is more about how TR used to GLADLY interact with his fanbase. He used to post on ETS, he always gave updates on the NIN forums, he did Q & As, twitter etc. In the last several years he has made a conscious effort to stop interacting with his fans.
    We've gotten news it just doesn't always come directly from him. If recent history is a judge, projects need to be at a certain level of completion for him to go to Twitter and say "Hey we did a thing". Apparently none are at that level yet. But we've still gotten news they are scoring Watchmen and films X, Y, Z and working on an expanded version of Mid90...and this is on top of the stuff that hasn't even been announced yet. Oh and the next round of vinyls. What more do you want?

    As for his interaction, or lack thereof, can you blame him? I mean the irony in your posts above...

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    I put the main NIN Facebook group on ignore after NIN expressed support for Planned Parenthood because I was expecting a massive meltdown over it. It seems I wasn't wrong in expecting people to freak out like they just remembered that TR has been openly liberal for quite a while now (so him being pro-choice should surprise absolutely no one) despite, just last year, making some anti-Trump comments, scoring a climate change documentary not long before that, releasing a concept album based on fears of what Bush administration policies would eventually lead to, and planning to protest Bush with an MTV performance, among other things. Maybe I've been underestimating the large number of "casual" fans who are only familiar with "Closer" and "Head Like A Hole" coming out of the woodwork upon being forced to comprehend the thought of TDS-era being well behind us.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post

    My point about how we get no NIN news etc is more about how TR used to GLADLY interact with his fanbase. He used to post on ETS, he always gave updates on the NIN forums, he did Q & As, twitter etc. In the last several years he has made a conscious effort to stop interacting with his fans.
    Do you remember why that all stopped? It wasn't for no reason.

    His "fans" started making unprovoked, racist comments about his wife (then girlfriend) and then shit all over him while he raised money for a guy who was dying from health issues. He wasn't being "political" at the time, he was just living his life, falling in love and trying to do some good in the world. The politics were brought to him by hateful people, not the other way around.

    He has every reason in the world to care about social/economic/political issues and to speak up about them, because they are affecting him and the people he cares about personally. He's got kids and other family members of various ethnic backgrounds, and people of color can tell you how scary the political landscape of the US is right now. It's nearly impossible to remain apolitical in his position. And why should he? Just because it creates infighting among his fan base? Why is preventing twitter bickering more important than speaking up for what's right?

    I understand the temptation to remain as apolitical as possible to avoid arguments and drama. Really, I do. I'm not trying to drag you here, I've held the exact same view you are expressing. But there are people in the world who don't have the luxury of trying to remain neatly in the center because politics will be brought to their doorstep no matter how much they try to stay neutral.

    We have an obligation to the people who live in our communities, who go to our schools and who work alongside us to speak up when something is wrong. Even if it's unpopular, even if it hurts you or makes things complicated socially for you. And "not being political" is in and of itself a political position. It may feel like it isn't to those who aspire to it, but choosing nothing is still a choice and will still have implications for those who chose something different.

    I know people want to separate art from cultural and political issues, but they have never in the history of the world been separate. Ever. Artists create while they observe themselves and the world around them. Art is inherently political, even if you never create something about a candidate or issue on a ballot somewhere. Are you singing a song about a person you love? That's an inherently political song depending on who it is you love and how you express that love. Did you paint a picture on the ceiling of a church somewhere? It's a political depending on what church you painted it in and what church is the predominate influence on the culture at the time, and so on.

    My point is that I think it's a mistake to assume that art can be nonpolitical at all. Furthermore, art is the best sort of thing that can cause the viewer/listener to reflect upon their own views, ideas and perception of the world. It's able to touch people and get their brain churning in a way that simple discourse can't always manage. So I think it's an even bigger mistake to assume that artists should try to be apolitical, because they have a tool that many people don't have to add to the discourse, even if you don't like what they are adding to it.

    Anyway, just my thoughts on the matter. I see what you are saying here and I know a lot of people feel the same way. I just think that viewpoint isn't consistent with how art has historically influenced culture.

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    I can't stand 99,99999% of the left wingers and at the same time I am an atheist and I am pro-abortion (too many people on Earth already and most abortions happen among leftists, so it means less future leftists, lol).

    I've reached a point in my life where I can't stand politics and agendas at any form being shoved down my throat. I can't stand militants just as I couldn't stand my aunt who asked me why I was not going to church anymore.

    In the end, they are equals. Trying to say how I should live my life, how I should think, how I should behave, what I am allowed to speak and what I'm not.

    I know most of you are left leaning and I know facepalms will rain down on me and you'll probably ban and censor me (Hooray for tolerance!), but fuck it, that's who I am.

    I couldn't care less about Trent's political views (or any artist's view for that matter), I couldn't care less about his stupid FB fans either. Dear world, you suck. Cheers!

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    The reason Trent stopped interacting was mostly due to fans being fucking awful misogynistic and racist shitbags to his wife. I wouldn't have any interest in directly interacting with them after that, either. Can't blame Trent for that disaster at all.

    And if people live in the States right now, have a platform and aren't using it, they are complicit.

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    He used to interact on this board but not since his account was outed for seemingly no reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthier View Post
    I can't stand 99,99999% of the left wingers and at the same time I am an atheist and I am pro-abortion (too many people on Earth already and most abortions happen among leftists, so it means less future leftists, lol).

    I've reached a point in my life where I can't stand politics and agendas at any form being shoved down my throat. I can't stand militants just as I couldn't stand my aunt who asked me why I was not going to church anymore.

    In the end, they are equals. Trying to say how I should live my life, how I should think, how I should behave, what I am allowed to speak and what I'm not.

    I know most of you are left leaning and I know facepalms will rain down on me and you'll probably ban and censor me (Hooray for tolerance!), but fuck it, that's who I am.

    I couldn't care less about Trent's political views (or any artist's view for that matter), I couldn't care less about his stupid FB fans either. Dear world, you suck. Cheers!

    You, like everyone else in the world, are a political creature who exists within a political structure, even if you don't believe that you are or are purposely trying to avoid it. Within your own post you made several very political statements while decrying people who also make political statements.

    I'm pretty far left, but I hope you'll hear me when I say sincerely that I am not interested in telling you what to think as much as encouraging you to consider how you arrived at the political positions that you hold (because you indisputably hold political positions. You expressed them in black and white in your post). Consider how the positions you hold, even if they are positions of apathy or frustration may affect other people. Consider what the consequences may be for yourself and others if you are wrong or even just slightly off the mark. All of us have been at one point or another. Changing your mind after researching, thinking and listening is not a thing to be angry about or embarrassed about. It's just part of the human experience and it's normal.

    Other humans encouraging you to re-examine your views on the world, culture and politics is not slavery or oppression. It's encouraging you to a sort of freedom that nobody else can give you: the freedom to change your mind when you are presented with hard facts and shared experiences of others. That's sometimes awkward and even painful to do, but it's necessary. If you aren't willing to consistently examine yourself on the behalf of others, consider doing it for yourself. You don't have anything to lose by really dissecting what you believe and how you arrived at those beliefs. If nothing else, it will make you a more critical thinker and that's never a bad thing. Who knows? Maybe you will retain all of the same beliefs you did before a thorough self-examination. But probably not. You owe it to your fellow humans to examine your opinions regularly, and you certainly owe it to yourself.

    As for the response you get from people on one end of the political spectrum that you don't belong to: I get it. It can be hard to have respect for people who are screaming at you or insulting you for not sharing their political views. But there are very high stakes for real-life human beings. It's very hard to not be passionate and even angry about some of these issues. Their anger with your views (or lack of stance at all) might be justified. You don't have anything to lose by considering that.

    Again, this isn't a condemnation of you or your post, nor telling you that you absolutely MUST hold one position or the other. It's just an encouragement to evaluate your thoughts, as we all should. I'm sure everybody here has some views on culture or politics that have morphed and changed over time. We should be regularly challenging each other to think about what we know to be true.

    Lastly, I want to push back against something you mentioned about all sides being the same. You seem upset at the idea of people telling you what to think, and I would like to point out that by accepting the "both sides are the same" mantra, you've already been told what to think and have swallowed it whole. That mindset in and of itself is a bit of propaganda that lots of politicians and corporate entities are spending billions of dollars selling to you. The "enlightened centrist" point of view is something that has been packaged and sold to you by people who have a very vested interest in you feeling that way. Political apathy and centrism is a political position that is just as valuable as political extremism to those in power.

    Just something to think about. I hope you didn't read this and hear snark in my comment to you, because there was none intended whatsoever.
    Last edited by eachpassingphase; 08-27-2019 at 02:32 PM.

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    Given the subject matter, i feel this is apropos so I would just like to say...

    Wake up and give a shit!


  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balthier View Post
    I can't stand 99,99999% of the left wingers and at the same time I am an atheist and I am pro-abortion (too many people on Earth already and most abortions happen among leftists, so it means less future leftists, lol).

    I've reached a point in my life where I can't stand politics and agendas at any form being shoved down my throat. I can't stand militants just as I couldn't stand my aunt who asked me why I was not going to church anymore.

    In the end, they are equals. Trying to say how I should live my life, how I should think, how I should behave, what I am allowed to speak and what I'm not.

    I know most of you are left leaning and I know facepalms will rain down on me and you'll probably ban and censor me (Hooray for tolerance!), but fuck it, that's who I am.

    I couldn't care less about Trent's political views (or any artist's view for that matter), I couldn't care less about his stupid FB fans either. Dear world, you suck. Cheers!

    I am really perplex about how "liberal" came to mean anything other than pro-freedom. I don't see it happening outside of the USA (except because the world has been trained to love Coke and Hollywood, everyone thinks America is amazing and copies them). "Leftists" is a bit of a bullshit word (it's not even a word - I'm English, we invented the language) - but I get what you're angling at. What you describe is actually very left wing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Nicholas View Post
    I put the main NIN Facebook group on ignore after NIN expressed support for Planned Parenthood because I was expecting a massive meltdown over it. It seems I wasn't wrong in expecting people to freak out like they just remembered that TR has been openly liberal for quite a while now (so him being pro-choice should surprise absolutely no one) despite, just last year, making some anti-Trump comments, scoring a climate change documentary not long before that, releasing a concept album based on fears of what Bush administration policies would eventually lead to, and planning to protest Bush with an MTV performance, among other things. Maybe I've been underestimating the large number of "casual" fans who are only familiar with "Closer" and "Head Like A Hole" coming out of the woodwork upon being forced to comprehend the thought of TDS-era being well behind us.
    Putting the page on mute to save your sanity is legit an OK thing to do.

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    'Liberal' has been strategically weaponized in the US to have a negative connotation. They're doing the same thing when they say 'Democrat Party'. It's a conscious decision to make the terms derogatory.

    Wanting equal freedoms for all is not the same as dictating how one should live their life by way of restrictive legislation yet here we are. Both sides...
    Last edited by cdm; 08-27-2019 at 07:24 PM.

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