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Thread: does A Warm Place contain inverted Downward Spiral motif?

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    Question does A Warm Place contain inverted Downward Spiral motif?


    Somewhere sometime ago I read that A Warm Place has hidden Downward Spiral motif.
    Last year, while working on a cover version (unfinished) I noticed this interesting thing.
    As I don't have any musicial education except for stuff I taught myself,
    I ask people with proper education and knowledge to step up here.
    If it is TDS motiv - that changes interpretation of this song in album.
    One moment of solace, memory of happier times for protagonist.
    You can judge by yourself.
    If I am right - don't forget to credit me somewhere.

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    It's a stretch to say the least. Both songs are in completely different key signatures, use completely different melodies, and have completely different rhythms (even backwards).

    I don't have perfect pitch but I can tell you without a doubt that A Warm Place inverted sounds almost nothing like The Downward Spiral motif.

    There are some small similarities. If there is anything here, the music has been extremely twisted to the point of non-recognition. This may be the point; TR has been known to self-reference often.

    The Downward Spiral was even released in reverse on the Not The Actual Events vinyl B-side. Listening to that, it doesn't resemble A Warm Place in the slightest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by katara View Post
    It's a stretch to say the least. Both songs are in completely different key signatures, use completely different melodies, and have completely different rhythms (even backwards).

    I don't have perfect pitch but I can tell you without a doubt that A Warm Place inverted sounds almost nothing like The Downward Spiral motif.

    There are some small similarities. If there is anything here, the music has been extremely twisted to the point of non-recognition. This may be the point; TR has been known to self-reference often.

    The Downward Spiral was even released in reverse on the Not The Actual Events vinyl B-side. Listening to that, it doesn't resemble A Warm Place in the slightest.
    it's inversed not reversed. that's a big difference.
    regarding the key change and scale - happens in other tracks.
    main difference - length of the notes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stlkr View Post
    it's inversed not reversed. that's a big difference.
    regarding the key change and scale - happens in other tracks.
    main difference - length of the notes.
    That's not the only big difference: the second note is repeated in the regular motif, and the intervals are different except for the first two notes. If you went as far as to play the TDS melody over top of your inverted version you'd hear that they clash pretty badly after those first two notes. Basically, you can say that one is a climbing step-wise melody, and the other is a descending step-wise melody, but in terms of content they're quite different. But good catch on those first two notes!

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    There is a slight similarity, but it's not very close to the original motif.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stlkr View Post
    it's inversed not reversed. that's a big difference.
    regarding the key change and scale - happens in other tracks.
    main difference - length of the notes.
    If you read my post, you'll find that I only reference the reversed TDS as a throwaway comment in the very last sentence. You are correct that 'inverted' doesn't mean 'reversed'.

    The other thing that makes this idea unbelievable is that A Warm Place is (apparently unconsciously) based on Crystal Japan by David Bowie. Even that's not exactly the same, though the melodies and instruments chosen are incredibly similar.
    With this information, if A Warm Place truly features TDS motif inverted, that would mean it would have to have been one of the first songs written for the album, as that would be the origin of the motif. He was influenced by Crystal Japan, wrote A Warm Place, then inverted and twisted that melody to become the backbone for the whole of the LP. Therefore, The Downward Spiral (song) is actually A Warm Place inverted rather than the other way around (which it's not; they're mathematically barely alike). In a way, this is an interesting concept, especially given recent events in the Trilogy which frequently calls back to Bowie. To me, this idea is utterly ludicrous. Possible, sure, but absurd all the same.

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