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Thread: US Abortion Bans

  1. #1
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    US Abortion Bans

    Virtually every red state has been trying to do away with abortion lately. Missouri has just become the latest.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/mi...-live-updates/

    Which states are next? And will this eventually lead to a federal ban?

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    You will see more republican held state-legislatures do the same. My takeaway is that these states are laying the groundwork for an eventual challenge that goes to the Supreme Court once these restrictions are struck down by federal judges. The goal is to repeal Roe v Wade, plain and simple and John Roberts will be the swing vote. It's horrendous.

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    I don't believe it will happen. I don't think we'll see a federal ban.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    I don't believe it will happen. I don't think we'll see a federal ban.
    There are 4 Supreme Court justices who would disagree with you while the fifth one huddles in a corner trying to figure out what his legacy is going to be. I take nothing for granted with anything anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    There are 4 Supreme Court justices who would disagree with you while the fifth one huddles in a corner trying to figure out what his legacy is going to be. I take nothing for granted with anything anymore.
    honestly, I'm scared, too.

    As I just posted in the trump thread, I'm honestly afraid that we might be on the cusp of the end of America as we know it. May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts.

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    Roe v Wade was a non-partisan decision. If this goes before the Supreme Court, hopefully clearer heads will prevail

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    And, what's REALLY fucking crazy, is that the bible doesn't mention any sort of specific law against abortion. There are verses that people use to claim that it does, in a vague way, but, there are also verses which SUPPORT abortion.

    I've a friend who is a DoC minister, and, he is VEHEMENTLY opposed to this abortion ban bullshit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    And, what's REALLY fucking crazy, is that the bible doesn't mention any sort of specific law against abortion. There are verses that people use to claim that it does, in a vague way, but, there are also verses which SUPPORT abortion.
    "The life of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11) is the one that I remember from the top of my head, due to it having been interpreted in my Christian school as being anti-abortion because the fetus develops its own bloodstream at some point. It is extremely vague because I don't think the concept of abortion even existed to most people in Jesus' time or before.

    "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is another one I heard being used to justify opposing abortion, even though there have conveniently been numerous exceptions to the rule.

    Basically, the "pro-life" people tend to be evangelicals who cherry-pick Bible verses to justify their views.

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    Remember Exodus 21: 22-23?
    “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she has a miscarriage, and there is no serious injury (to the WOMAN,) the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. "

    So, that's 22. 23 goes on to say that, if the WOMAN is harmed, it's eye for eye and tooth for tooth.

    This, to me, shows that the unborn child was NOT considered a person: otherwise, the person who causes the woman to miscarry would be a murderer. Instead, the person causing the miscarriage is only expected to pay a fine. But if the WOMAN is killed, then the person who bumped into her is killed. The woman is a person, the fetus is not.

    There are more verses like this, that show the OPPOSITE of the right wing evangelical view.

    You're absolutely right about the cherry picking.



    Last edited by elevenism; 05-24-2019 at 02:49 PM.

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    And in a bit of positive news, a federal judge just blocked a ban in Mississippi!
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/24/polit...dge/index.html

    Only time will tell if other bans get blocked anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    And, what's REALLY fucking crazy, is that the bible doesn't mention any sort of specific law against abortion. There are verses that people use to claim that it does, in a vague way, but, there are also verses which SUPPORT abortion.

    I've a friend who is a DoC minister, and, he is VEHEMENTLY opposed to this abortion ban bullshit.
    Count me as another Christian in ministry who is absolutely disgusted with this. Abortion has been documented in early Greece, Rome and Egypt. It almost certainly existed in the time that Jesus Christ was thought to have been alive (although it would have looked far different). If it were the heinous crime that it is currently thought to be by political conservatives, then why wasn't it mentioned in the Gospels or Epistles?

    I honestly think that the reason this is all happening now is because the GOP caught wind of how they overplayed their hand with some of their evangelical base. I follow a lot of stuff from Christian culture every week, and after the first year of Trump's presidency, I saw quite a few articles from theologically conservative Christians (and would call themselves pro-life) who were questioning the GOP's stance on abortion. Because after all: at one point in the Presidency they held all the power to tear down legal abortion if they wanted to, and they didn't make any significant moves until just recently. It confused a lot of evangelicals. Add in the children in cages, add in some of the other immigration policies that would potentially make adoption harder, add in Republican politicians getting their mistresses pregnant and trying to get abortions and...well. They were pissed. They were finally beginning to see the hypocrisy of it all.

    More than a few of them finally woke up and realized that the majority of Republicans don't give a lick about saving babies at all. They realized that the GOP was just using abortion as bait to whip evangelicals into a frothing frenzy, and a not-insignificant portion of these pro-life evangelicals are done with the Republican party and have written about it online. GOPer's keep tabs on the pulse of evangelical America, because typically that's their most faithful voting base. I feel like this is the Republican hail-mary pass because they know the ship is sinking and are trying to whip the base up again in a last ditch effort to retain power.

    It's been very odd and depressing to observe all this from where I sit. I have a child with severe disabilities, we could have aborted late term due to their severity, but obviously chose not to. A lot of people want to use us as some sort of shining beacon of pro-life ethics, and we are SO uncomfortable with that for a number of reasons and slap it down hard when it comes up. I'm still not sure why we made that decision (not that I re-think my choice on this. We love our daughter the way she is.) but I'm highly aware that this is a HARD life that we chose.

    But that's just it: we got to make a choice. I just want other women to be able to make a choice too. And these anti-abortion efforts are bound to hurt women who already have the least amount of choices in life; marginalized women who already get too many options taken away from them. But that seems to be sort of the point, doesn't it?

    Anyway, that comment kind of got away from me there. But yeah, sucks bad.

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    I stated this in that other religion thread and I’ll repeat it, here:

    These abortion bans aren’t really about Jesus or God or babies.

    They’re about maintaining the white majority.

    Exhibit A: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...nsus-projects/

    Exhibit B: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/u...-decrease.html
    Last edited by allegro; 05-24-2019 at 08:58 PM.

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    https://www.thecut.com/2019/05/embry...7j9dKP9-YR7hs0

    Should be required reading before anyone gets to vote on anything regarding abortions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    https://www.thecut.com/2019/05/embry...7j9dKP9-YR7hs0

    Should be required reading before anyone gets to vote on anything regarding abortions.
    This is excellent, thank you.

    I actually HOPE this gets argued before the higher courts.

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    "Texas teen attacks new abortion law in high school graduation speech" - Hell yes, Paxton Smith!

    https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-57343832

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    There is a website that urges people to report women who have had an abortion after six weeks.

    That's 1984 right there.

    I think people just assumed that Roe v. Wade would be the rule of the land forever. This is why the election of 2016 was so damn important. Now we have a Supreme Court with a conservative 6-3 super-majority. I'd be surprised if Roe isn't overturned, or weakened to the point where red states can basically outlaw abortion, which is what's happening in Texas.

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    There's a state senator here trying to get a similar bill passed next year. She's even in support of a ban in cases of rape and incest because "we just magnify the hurt and injury by also killing the baby". No, you magnify the hurt by forcing a woman to carry a child that will remind her of the trauma she went through every single day. People like that think these children are little miracles simply because they don't have to see them or raise them. Out of sight, out of mind.

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    DoJ presser in 10 minutes on the topic


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    great thread about the law and enforcement.

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    well, the whole thing is definitely sparking a lot of opportunist moments to overturn civil rights in a broader sense. How anyone could look at this shit and be ok with it is beyond me.

    https://twitter.com/JoeMyGod/status/1439589370416095238
    Last edited by Jinsai; 09-20-2021 at 09:13 AM.

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    a state legislator in Florida today introduced an abortion band law extremely similar to the one in Texas. Chilling stuff going on if this shit stands.

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    they’re gonna do it in georgia too. the whole thing is gross.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    so this is encouraging news.

    "Federal Judge Halts Enforcement of Texas Abortion Law"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/u...rtion-law.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    so this is encouraging news.

    "Federal Judge Halts Enforcement of Texas Abortion Law"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/u...rtion-law.html
    I came here to mention that. It's still going to be fought out in the courts.

    I'm a Texan, obviously. I've got ancestors in the Stratford Cemetery who died in the mid 1800s: aka the people who were here both when Texas was part of the US, and when it wasn't.
    I'm chock full of Texas spirit, and piss and whiskey. I bleed red white and blue, but not for the US. I bleed lone stars.
    But here's where I'm starting to get confused. This is the LONE STAR state. In my mind, it's supposed to be, like, the FREEST state. In Texas, you take Texas History BEFORE American history, where you learn about the old school spirit of texas.
    What I'm getting at is that these abortion bans are anathema to the spirit of Texas as I was raised to understand it.
    Also, I assumed that Texas would be one of the first states to legalize weed.
    Bottom line, the First Three Hundred and their primary descendants were NOT aiming for a fucking Sharia Law style Theocracy, I don't think.

    Something got lost along the way, or, more specifically, co-opted.

    And it sucks.
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-07-2021 at 02:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Also, I assumed that Texas would be one of the first states to legalize weed..
    here’s where you’re totally losing me. Texas treats weed like it’s crack. You mandatory go to jail for small cultivation. There’s also no really free gambling and you can’t buy hard liquor on a Sunday or on Christmas. I think a lot of this “rootin tootin badass Texas freedom” stuff has been a smokescreen lie forever. Last I heard they recently changed the law to let you buy beer before noon. FREEDOM!!!!

    Texas is all about scaring away liberals and people into that hippie stuff. Honestly, I’d imagine that the majority of Texas support for this abortion bullshit is more tied to the hope it’ll scare away the godless liberals back to wherever they’re coming from. The only way TX is gonna catch up on weed legalization is if they goof up more technicalities in fumbling attempts to be ok with CBD

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    @Jinsai but do you feel what I'm saying?
    Again, i'm like 6th generation, if not seventh.
    And I'm a Texas history buff.

    (Edit: Regarding weed, i think it's about money for the government. They don't want to lose all of that daily drug bust income from the INSANELY huge border with Mexico. that's all i can figure, honestly. Drug busts, private prisons and such.)

    It USED to be about liberty.

    I THINK I can pretty much pinpoint when it all changed. Remember, Texas was a Democratic stronghold until the early eighties.
    And, what happened around that time? Falwell and Billy Graham and all these cocksucking "religious" vampires endorsing political candidates.
    You know, the "moral majority" bullshit.
    It was the birth of the "evangelical" voter, and the beginning of what I PERSONALLY view as a violation of separation of Church and State. These fuckers started being told that an ideology drawn from a set of books spanning multiple millennia, the last of which was written a couple thousand years ago, commanded them to support Reagan and Bush.
    That's how it started, I think.
    THAT BEING SAID, as much as Texas is being held up as a paragon of lunacy or whatever, look at the voting numbers.
    Ted "please come get him and take him back to Canada @botley " Cruz won his latest senate race by less than than 2% of the vote.
    I'M a fucking legacy Texan, and a LOT of my friends think a lot like I do.
    We've got Antifa, and underground militant leftists. We've got a fuckton of left leaning people in general. We've got multiple cities where racial minorities are the majority.
    You'll meet some of the most hardcore hippies and gutter punks you could imagine in Austin especially, but also in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio.
    We've got atheist club meetings.
    We've got organized Satanism in every major city.
    We have massive Pride parades.
    Texas is a lot like the US in general, in that the right is overrepresented.
    Yes, most Texans lean right, but we're talking like 52/48, not 90/10.

    ALSO, it's not that Texas is trying to scare off liberals. It's that extreme conservatives from other parts of the country, including YOUR area, are coming HERE.
    And a lot of these people don't belong, because they're missing the most important custom of this state, which is FRIENDLINESS.

    Anyway, i digress.

    I'm a Texan first, and an american second.
    And i'm tired of US being blamed for something that infuriates at LEAST 50% of the people who LIVE here.

    It's no different than blaming the entire US for trump.
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-07-2021 at 08:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Ted "please come get him and take him back to Canada @botley " Cruz
    Acceptable, but y'all gotta take Saskatchewan in trade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    I'm a Texan first, and an american second.
    I'm a woman first, and an American second. And I'm meaningless.

    I don't "belong" to any particular state in this country.

    My family goes back to the late-1800s in Michigan.

    And I moved.

    Because my rights and the rights of women and the marginalized mean more to me than my own egotistical bullshit history.

    Your state has been taken over by right-wing extremists, DECADES AGO. I don't care how warm and fuzzy YOU feel about Texas, or how you try to spin it.

    A Federal circuit judge temporarily halted the Texas law, not a Texas judge. There are people in other STATES using the Texas law to sue the doctor in Texas ("interpleader"), that's how fucked-up that Texas abortion law is.

    Michigan, I'm from Michigan, yup. But, it's a fucking hillbilly bullshit state full of fucking yahoos. MILITIA assholes tried KILL THE GOVERNOR in Michigan. I don't care if you set Michigan on FIRE. G's mother's family history in Kentucky and Tennessee goes back to the late-1700s. And you couldn't pay him a million dollars to live in either place.

    Personally, I want to circulate a petition to sell Texas back to Mexico.

    This is the abortion thread. You will never ever ever ever ever have an abortion. This isn't the place for you to wax nostalgic about your family history, dude. Or try to explain to women whose rights to their bodies are being grossly violated how great everything is, and it really isn’t that bad, and there’s really some cool people out there. We understand that not 100% of people in any state are assholes. The problem is that the assholes have had all the power in your state since before you were born.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-08-2021 at 07:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    I'm a woman first, and an American second. And I'm meaningless.

    I don't "belong" to any particular state in this country.

    My family goes back to the late-1800s in Michigan.

    And I moved.

    Because my rights and the rights of women and the marginalized mean more to me than my own egotistical bullshit history.

    Your state has been taken over by right-wing extremists, DECADES AGO. I don't care how warm and fuzzy YOU feel about Texas, or how you try to spin it.

    A Federal circuit judge temporarily halted the Texas law, not a Texas judge. There are people in other STATES using the Texas law to sue the doctor in Texas ("interpleader"), that's how fucked-up that Texas abortion law is.

    Michigan, I'm from Michigan, yup. But, it's a fucking hillbilly bullshit state full of fucking yahoos. MILITIA assholes tried KILL THE GOVERNOR in Michigan. I don't care if you set Michigan on FIRE. G's mother's family history in Kentucky and Tennessee goes back to the late-1700s. And you couldn't pay him a million dollars to live in either place.

    Personally, I want to circulate a petition to sell Texas back to Mexico.

    This is the abortion thread. You will never ever ever ever ever have an abortion. This isn't the place for you to wax nostalgic about your family history, dude. Or try to explain to women whose rights to their bodies are being grossly violated how great everything is, and it really isn’t that bad, and there’s really some cool people out there. We understand that not 100% of people in any state are assholes. The problem is that the assholes have had all the power in your state since before you were born.
    I didn't say a Texas judge temporarily halted the ban, I don't think.
    And I'm DAMN sure not trying to explain away the horrors being committed here, wrt women's rights.
    I GODDAMN sure never said it "wasn't that bad."

    So I see my state gnmt fucking up. And I see a mockery being made of what I basically consider my COUNTRY, and I feel like I should say something. I feel like I should make it clear that not ALL of us think that way, because it's IMPORTANT to me.
    @allegro the bottom line is that I don't want people thinking "Texas- oh yeah...everyone who lives there is against women's rights. They're all pro life extremists."
    Last edited by elevenism; 12-05-2021 at 08:59 PM. Reason: Removed some assholery

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