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Thread: US Abortion Bans

  1. #121
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    weird.

  2. #122
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    I remember when people who made wild and unfounded statements like this were considered fringe and now it's considered a real possibility.

  3. #123
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    Kansas voters (remember: Kansas is a red state) just voted NOT to overturn their constitutional right to an abortion.

    It’s the first time in American history that voters were given the right to decide, and RECORD numbers of voters showed up at the polls to preserve the right to choose.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Kansas voters (remember: Kansas is a red state) just voted NOT to overturn their constitutional right to an abortion.

    It’s the first time in American history that voters were given the right to decide, and RECORD numbers of voters showed up at the polls to preserve the right to choose.
    That's fucking awesome, and inspiring.

    But what of states that don't plan on PROVIDING a democratic choice?

    THAT'S what gives me the Fear, not to mention the possibility of a Federal ban.

  5. #125
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    solid take.



    not-so-solid take.
    Last edited by allegate; 08-03-2022 at 11:13 AM.

  6. #126
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    Here’s some comparisons of county-level voting and 2020 election votes:


    Rural examples:
    Hamilton County:
    81 percent Republican in 2020
    56 percent for the anti-abortion position yesterday


    Greeley County:
    85 percent R in 2020
    60 percent anti-abortion yesterday


    Urban (Kansas City):
    Wyandotte County:
    65 percent Dem in 2020
    74 percent for abortion rights


    Johnson County:
    53 percent D in 2020
    68 percent for abortion rights


    That doesn’t look like one side experiencing a wave or a spike in support. That reads like only a fraction of the Republican party actually supported the effort, and they were outvoted 2:1 by basically everyone else.


    In Kansas, there was hardly a contest to speak of. The "No" coalition -- which opposed a measure that would have removed abortion rights from the state constitution -- appears to be on track to win in a landslide. And it's no low-turnout fluke. The overall vote count on the amendment eclipsed 869,000 at around 1 a.m. ET.


    That figure exceeded Kansas' general election turnout in the midterm year of 2010 and was approaching the 2014 total overnight. And overall primary turnout in the state two years ago -- in the midst of a presidential campaign -- clocked in at just over 636,000. In the 2018 midterm primary, the figure was lower: 457,598.


    Interest in the ballot measure also heavily outweighed the other big statewide contests on Tuesday -- more than doubling the total votes cast in the Republican gubernatorial primary, won by Kansas Attorney General Derek Schmidt, according to a CNN projection, with about 350,000 votes as of early Wednesday morning.


    Democratic turnout was even lower -- another sign that the abortion issue transcends party lines. Fewer than 250,000 voted in the party's Senate primary and only a few thousand more punched ballots for incumbent Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly, who faces an uphill battle to win a second term.



    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/03/polit...sis/index.html
    the dog caught the car and is finding out he should have kept chasing it.

    for now, at least.

  7. #127
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    Thank you, Kansas voters! If anyone in the Midwest needs abortion services, head to Kansas, Illinois, or Minnesota. (Wisconsin and Michigan are still trying to figure things out.)

  8. #128
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    What a lot of people don't realize about Kansas anymore is that the biggest markets in the state have all gone Blue due to the very large number of young adults who attend college in the state. And at least here in KC, the young voters have done a really good job at holding everyone they know accountable to actually go out and vote. The state of Kansas is very much different now than it was when I was growing up in it in the 90s. Missouri is now the new old Kansas.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardp View Post
    What a lot of people don't realize about Kansas anymore is that the biggest markets in the state have all gone Blue due to the very large number of young adults who attend college in the state. And at least here in KC, the young voters have done a really good job at holding everyone they know accountable to actually go out and vote. The state of Kansas is very much different now than it was when I was growing up in it in the 90s. Missouri is now the new old Kansas.
    Possible dumb question, but how is this different than the SD marijuana referendum that the governor said "Nah" and struck it down anyway?

  10. #130
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    To build on that: The Republicans just learned "don't leave it up to the people, just pass the law with no input from the public"

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiak33 View Post
    Possible dumb question, but how is this different than the SD marijuana referendum that the governor said "Nah" and struck it down anyway?
    The current Governor of Kansas is a Democrat, so that helps.

    But, yeah, look at the referendum in Florida where the voters opted to allow convicted felons to vote.

    And the Florida legislature said “nah, we ain’t having that” and said you first have to pay off all fines, fees and restitution AND have to fully serve your time (so, you can’t vote from jail).

    https://ncpolicywatch.com/2022/05/02...es-for-voting/

    Can’t have ALL THOSE minorities we locked up to keep from voting actually VOTING!!

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post
    To build on that: The Republicans just learned "don't leave it up to the people, just pass the law with no input from the public"
    They’ve been doing that all along, this has always been their plan. They rarely want input from the voters, unless it serves them. They claim that voters don’t really know what’s in their best interests.

    Look at what happened in Michigan, when voters decided to have a non-partisan committee draw districts. All hell broke loose. The courts had to enforce it. Because what would either party do without gerrymandering?

    However, Michigan also decided, via voters, to make marriage “between a man and a woman” - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004...gan_Proposal_2

    Of course that was overturned by the civil rights decision of Obergefell v. Hodges. For now.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-04-2022 at 01:11 PM.

  13. #133
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    Indiana banned abortion today except in extreme exceptions. Goes into effect 9/15. While the Kansas news is great, it really is frustrating how the Dems let us get to this place, and now they and we are all scrambling trying to shore up things where we can.

    In the meantime, please consider donating to the Brigid Alliance like I do, and make it reoccurring if you can afford to. They are going to be doing the most hands on stuff to make sure women in these backwards ass states can safely get to the states where they can abort their pregnancies as much as they want.

    https://brigidalliance.org/

    We get people to abortion care, whatever it takes. For many Americans, the costs and logistical challenges of getting to an abortion provider are primary barriers to access, and it’s only getting harder. We book, coordinate and pay for travel, travel expenses, and child care, serving as a single, trusted point of contact for every step of the journey. Wherever someone needs to get to abortion care in the U.S., we find a way to get them there – through direct support and in collaboration with our network of partners.

  14. #134
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    Here's an article:

    Illinois abortion clinics have been flooded with patients since Roe overturning; new Indiana law could mean even more

    Here's something that many people might not realize:

    Illinois has a law that provides Medicaid coverage for abortion services. This includes temporary Medicaid coverage for VISITORS to our state.

    https://www2.illinois.gov/IISNews/24...nant_Women.pdf

    So we Illinois residents are paying for the abortion services for people in Indiana and all those other states that have assholes as Governors and legislators that ban abortions.

    And most of us are okay with that, but JUST LETTING YOU KNOW.


    And, now you know why ALL OF US kept SCREAMING why it was SO IMPORTANT to ELECT A PRESIDENT who could CHOOSE SCOTUS JUSTICES.

    Because we sure as FUCK can't control who voters in states elect to the House and Senate.

    Because VOTERS ARE SELFISH MORONS.


    I live in a SEA OF BLUE, surrounded by Pro Choice people.

    But Joe Manchin? He's STILL Pro Life. It's one reason why he's elected in a sea of red in his state.


    See STUPAK-PITTS AMENDMENT to the Affordable Care Act, 2008.

    The House approved the Stupak–Pitts amendment on November 7, 2009, by a vote of 240–194.

    The House was majority DEMOCRAT.

    That Amendment barred the use of Federal funds in the ACA for use in obtaining abortions.

    In 2008, a large group of Democrats in Congress were still heavily pro-life.

    And those Democrats got there because VOTERS put them there. Not Divine Right, not Magic Fairies, not Evil Lobbyists, etc. Nope, just plain old voters in private voting booths, voting for their own personal interests and beliefs and not giving one single shit about anyone else let alone big issues like minorities or women's equality.


    The ONLY things that protected a woman's right to choose for almost fifty years was Roe and Casey.

    The voters took that away, not "the Democrats." VOTERS elect people to Congress; VOTERS elect people as President. VOTERS tell their Congresspeople what’s important by electing them, and replacing them. STATE elections and STATE governments are MORE IMPORTANT than any other election.


    There has never, EVER been a time in the history of this country that any Federal legislation that would have provided women equal protection under the law, let alone rights to an abortion, would have passed. EVER. We are still controlled by men. We wouldn't NEED Federal abortion legislation had an Equal Rights Amendment to the Constitution that clearly provides women equal protection under the law passed.

    We have been DESPERATELY TRYING to get the ERA passed since the 1970s. It’s an amendment to the Constitution, so it may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.

    Let RBG, one of the greatest jurists in history as well as one of the greatest women’s rights advocates, explain:

    Last edited by allegro; 08-07-2022 at 02:13 PM.

  15. #135
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    Jesus fucking Christ on a Metaverse cracker: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7ze...r-for-abortion

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Jesus fucking Christ on a Metaverse cracker: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7ze...r-for-abortion
    Yeah, I'm officially done with using Messenger now, and I'll never say anything remotely beyond casual shit via it ever again. I'll limit it to things like "hey, that movie was good!"
    It's actually freaked me out in the past when people have sent me FB messages involving anything personal or sensitive. Like, WTF are you doing? You know they're reading all this shit right?

    Well, now everyone should know.

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Jesus fucking Christ on a Metaverse cracker: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7ze...r-for-abortion
    Messenger aside … 28 weeks?? That’s not legal in ANY state (of a healthy fetus where mom’s life isn’t in danger, that part was enshrined in ROE), let alone via fucking mifepristone and misoprostol. Why did they put it off THAT LONG??? That’s SEVEN MONTHS PREGNANT. Babies are born prematurely at 7 months.

    I’m pro choice, but come on people … my stepsister did this shit. Waited around to “decide” and couldn’t make up her fucking mind and then flew to WICHITA to try to get a late-term abortion. Doctors there said sorry, snooze you lose.

    She gave birth to a baby and that baby is now in her 30s.

    Time is of the essence, here. We must view abortion as a choice, but we must also be humane. Unless your life is in danger and the fetus is not viable, 28 weeks is FAR too fucking late to be making that decision.

    I suspect the FB warrant was granted not because this was an “abortion” case but because this veered into the “homicide” category. Especially the “concealing a dead human body” portion of the charges.

    If I’m spending $6 on chicken eggs that are from chickens that roamed freely on farms, and only buy cruelty-free products, and donate money to animal rights organizations, and am donating the entirety of my estate to same, then I sure as fuck am gonna follow my same principles that say that a 7-month-old fetus shouldn’t be chemically killed because her idiot mama and grandma couldn’t make up their minds for 7 whole months.

    It’s likely that SOMEBODY knew she “prematurely gave birth to a stillborn child” and suspected some bullshit like maybe she murdered the baby after it was born, which happens a lot, and reported her to authorities (read the affidavit attached to the linked article) and that is how the warrant for FB messenger and her computer data was obtained for an investigation because mama and granny weren’t being cooperative. NOT that FB is reading messages and tipped off authorities. This was done prior to overturning Roe, it’s a HEINOUS case, NO chemical abortion of a fetus is recommended beyond the 1st trimester, no abortion of a healthy fetus is done ANYWHERE AT ALL IN ANY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY beyond 23 weeks, and never was. Please let’s not die on THIS fucking hill.


    No, you probably shouldn’t do drug deals - or anything that could implicate you via a warrant - via cell phone or apps. That should have been known all along.

    If you are in your first trimester and you want abortion drugs, and abortion is illegal in your state, you can contact organizations outside of your state. If you pay cash for a pregnancy test, nobody will know you are pregnant. Never use a debit card.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-10-2022 at 12:04 PM.

  18. #138
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    @allegro I think the more problematic part here is that Facebook is being complicit with revealing (supposedly) private information that we all foolishly trusted them to keep private. Nobody read those terms and agreements. Apparently if people actually find out the full scope of how FB is spying on you, you would not touch the platform.

    I still do, out of absolute necessity, and maybe occasionally to rant or be a dork, but it's dangerous poison at this point... and them being able to blast whatever you used Messenger to say to incriminate you, I find that seriously objectionable just as a standard that we should hold to. These direct messages are, ostensibly anyway, private.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    and them being able to blast whatever you used Messenger to say to incriminate you, I find that seriously objectionable just as a standard that we should hold to. These direct messages are, ostensibly anyway, private.
    There is tons of caselaw proving that no data (with certain exceptions, like medical and data that is sealed per court order) is private. Not cell phone data, not app chat data, not hard disk or cloud data, not printed data, not financial data, not any data.

    If anybody receives a warrant in a homicide case, they are not going to risk their own financial welfare, including legal fees and costs, to protect your privacy when no case law supports that stance.

    Except where data is governed specifically by data privacy laws, all bets are off. Those laws also do not apply to warrants.

    Do not use Facebook's messenger app. Period. Hell, I'd go so far as to say do not use ANY app that requires the use of your actual name.

    Do not ever provide your actual data (name, birthdate, etc.) on any social media site.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-10-2022 at 05:50 PM.

  20. #140
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    This shouldn't be investigated as homicide. It's not homicide. She's seventeen. I don't know what access to healthcare is like in her part of Nebraska so I don't want to jump to conclusions about the circumstances around how they chose to terminate her pregnancy.
    Last edited by botley; 08-10-2022 at 05:47 PM.

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    This shouldn't be investigated as homicide. It's not homicide. She's seventeen. I don't know what access to healthcare is like in her part of Nebraska so I don't want to jump to conclusions about the circumstances around how they chose to terminate her pregnancy.
    1) Her Mom was helping her.
    2) Yes, she's 17. But, she waited until seven months of pregnancy. No state allows that. None, except where the life of the mother is at stake or the fetus is not viable. All states consider that a homicide in the U.S. at that stage of pregnancy.
    3) She had up to 20 weeks to obtain a legal abortion in Nebraska, with the consent of her parent.
    4) This is a homicide investigation. Emphasis on the investigation part. According to a law that’s been in place since 2010. She and her mom had friends put the fetus (perhaps baby - she said she gave birth in the shower; she may have actually murdered the baby after giving birth) in a box and had them bury it in a farm somewhere up north. The body has been exhumed and I imagine some sort of autopsy is being conducted (except she and her mom allegedly set the body on fire).

    Here's a chart: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-po...2:%22asc%22%7D

    28 weeks is the third trimester. That's past "viability" in every state. It was the point of viability even under Roe.

    The Roe trimester framework completely forbade states from regulating abortion during the first trimester of pregnancy, permitted regulations designed to protect a woman's health in the second trimester, and permitted prohibitions on abortion during the third trimester (when the fetus becomes viable) under the justification of fetal protection, and so long as the life or health of the mother was not at risk. The plurality found that continuing advancements in medical technology had proven that a fetus could be considered viable at 23 or 24 weeks rather than at the 28 weeks previously understood by the Court in Roe. The plurality thus redrew the line of increasing state interest at viability because of increasing medical accuracy about when fetus viability takes place. Likewise, the authors of the plurality opinion felt that fetus viability was "more workable" than the trimester framework. Under this new fetus viability framework, the plurality held that at the point of viability and subsequent to viability, the state could promote its interest in the "potentiality of human life" by regulating, or possibly proscribing, abortion "except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother."
    Last edited by allegro; 08-11-2022 at 10:54 AM.

  22. #142
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    There's legal aspects of this that I feel very eager to argue about, but I'm just going to enjoy some aspects of how much the chips are finally settling into place with regards to how I have desperately wanted them to, that I'm going to refrain from commentary at this point.

    I will just say that in some ways I agree with everybody for the most part.

    EDIT: the above post is best understood if you read it in the voice of the witch Ursula from The Little Mermaid movie
    Last edited by Jinsai; 08-10-2022 at 06:55 PM.

  23. #143
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    Perhaps some data will add perspective:

    https://healthcare.utah.edu/womenshe...to-deliver.php

    Health Outcomes for 28-Week Old Preemies

    Survival rates for infants born at 28 weeks gestation is between 80-90 percent. Babies born at 28 weeks old only have a 10 percent chance of having long-term health problems.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01517-z


    This case an extremist Republican wet dream because they assert that 28-week babies are aborted every day (not true) by baby-killing Democrats who can’t wait to kill 3rd trimester babies. Except it’s so rare, it’s why it’s being treated as homicide.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-11-2022 at 10:52 AM.

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Jesus fucking Christ on a Metaverse cracker: https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7ze...r-for-abortion
    Fuck The Supreme Court and the Republican Party.

  25. #145
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    Reading the documents obtained:

    Warrant for Facebook data:
    https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...45-view-img-19

    Norfolk, Madison County, NE. This property is outside the city limits of Norfolk but still in the County of Madison.

    On 04-29-22 C. Burgess and J. Burgess were taken to the scene and voluntarily showed me where the burial site of the fetus was, ot SESS Norfolk, Madison Co., NE. T. Barnhill also arrived on scene prior to the exhumation of the fetus. T. Barnhill showed us where the fetus was buried (the same spot the Burgess’ had showed us). We also leamed from T. Barnhill that J. Burgess and C. Burgess tried to burn the body of the fetus prior to it being buried. On 04-29-22 Sgt. Vrbsky and Deputy Dittbener, both of the Madison Co. Sheriff's Office, assisted at the scene and with the exhumation process. The body of a fetus that appeared to have thermal injuries to its body was exhumed in the spot the Burgess's and Bambhill had shown me.

    On 04-30-22 an autopsy on the fetus was conducted. An exact cause was unknown but the lungs didn't indicate they'd ever contained any air.

    Over the next days I would conduct more interviews and learn the fetus body had actually been buried 3 times at different locations (2 of the locations were at Madison County, NE)

    NNN On 06-06-22 I received the final autopsy report. The report stated the cause of the was undetermined. The findings were consistent with the fetus being stillborn but the placement of the fetus into a plastic bag raise the possibility of asphyxia due to suffocation.
    Last edited by allegro; 08-11-2022 at 11:16 AM.

  26. #146
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    so not mature enough to make a decision about the pregnancy but mature enough to have the pregnancy? so fucking vile.

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegate View Post


    so not mature enough to make a decision about the pregnancy but mature enough to have the pregnancy? so fucking vile.
    They should have moved her out of that shithole state Vs. using her as a case law example.

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    "Pain-Capable"? That is extremely disgusting.

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