US Abortion Bans

[allegro]

I'm not all the way back online, but I wanted to lay this gem on you guys:



Top period tracking app says HELL YES they'll share your data with police. Mega tech companies like Google, Facebook etc, won't say, which means they will, too, I'm afraid.

Edit: so, impending technotheocracy?

Pregnancy tests work as soon as 10 days after UNPROTECTED (damned iPhone) sex.

Plan B can prevent up to 96% of pregnancies when taken within 5 days of unprotected sex. Plan B prevents the release of an egg from the ovary.

Waiting for a “period tracker” is the risky way to determine if you are pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy.

Period trackers are mostly for telling you when you’re ovulating for when you WANT to get pregnant, or for when you don’t want to be on your period while on vacation.

But you can have what appears to be your “normal” spotty period and still be pregnant.

If a person has had either failed birth control or unprotected sex, they should immediately get Plan B, and take a pregnancy test after 10 days. You then have up to 10 weeks (70 days) to use mifepristone or misoprostol.

[nmitchell86]

I thought Plan B was if your pull-out timing was off. The "life begins at conception" people want to claim that it's a human being as soon as fertilization happens, so to them Plan B is a form of murder.

You're not dealing with sane people.

You are right that we are not dealing with sane people. And you're also right, Plan B is for if your "pull-out timing is off". Plan B only works on non-fertilized egg. As soon as you nut in the coochie, it does not mean the egg is fertilized and conception. Conception can actually take place up to a day later. Bottom line, Plan-B will not induce an abortion eight weeks after conception. S C I E N C E. It's fun to argue with the right-wing shit heads, (I get it) but time is money and shit is real right now. Women who need reproductive health care (real serious situations...) need Mifepristone in a good situation or an actual procedure. More access to the right drugs will help clandestine reproductive health services.

[allegro]

it does not mean the egg is fertilized and conception. Conception can actually take place up to a day later.

Sperm can live in the reproductive tract for 5-6 days.

Anyone using “pull-out timing” should not be having sex. Middle school Sex Ed teaches that a small amount of sperm leaks out during the process of intercourse, enough to impregnate.

[elevenism]

Pregnancy tests work as soon as 10 days after UNPROTECTED (damned iPhone) sex.

Plan B can prevent up to 96% of pregnancies when taken within 5 days of unprotected sex. Plan B prevents the release of an egg from the ovary.

Waiting for a “period tracker” is the risky way to determine if you are pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy.

Period trackers are mostly for telling you when you’re ovulating for when you WANT to get pregnant, or for when you don’t want to be on your period while on vacation.

But you can have what appears to be your “normal” spotty period and still be pregnant.

If a person has had either failed birth control or unprotected sex, they should immediately get Plan B, and take a pregnancy test after 10 days. You then have up to 10 weeks (70 days) to use mifepristone or misoprostol.

Damned fine advice.

My point, though, is the horrifying (very) near future vibe in this piece of news.

Many of these tech companies that own our information either refuse to say, or flat out say they WILL, share the info of women seeking abortions in states with bans, with the cops. I THINK that, depending on the impending law and the state, they can be LEGALLY compelled to share such information.
Edit: and I'm not just talking about period tracking apps. I'm talking about DMs and emails and shit.

This, to me, sounds like the plot of a black mirror episode, or a dystopian future sci-fi film.

And ten times out of nine, many states will be coming for that Plan B, too.

If I were a woman, I wouldn't necessarily be expecting access to Plan B, legally, in the near future.

[allegate]

I swear, these bastardes.

[Jinsai]

now the Texas AG is suggesting he wants to look at upholding and defending the state's sodomy laws if SCOTUS wants to put them up for review.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-paxton-lgbtq/

[elevenism]

now the Texas AG is suggesting he wants to look at upholding and defending the state's sodomy laws if SCOTUS wants to put them up for review.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-paxton-lgbtq/

Holy fucking god. See, I thought this might happen, in multiple states, but not this FAST.

So let's just look at Texas as an example of how this shit might play out, because i know this place.
Trump won Texas in 2020 with 52% of the vote. That's PRETTY goddamn close to a 50/50 split.
Furthermore, average moderate texas Republican voters, in my experience, DON'T support shit like this: not abortion bans, not sodomy bans.
Libertarian minded Republican voters GODDAMN sure don't support it.
The only people down for this insanity are theo-cons, and I guess, homophobes, in the sodomy case.
Regular ass conservatives want SMALL government, NOT governmental overreach.
So, 99% of dems will oppose such bans, and likely half of Republicans, in this state.
What in the fuck will that look like? You wind up with MASSIVELY unpopular, restrictive law.
This stuff is the will of the MINORITY of the minority party: the one who's won the presidential popular vote once in 30 years.
And then, texas is NOT the only state like this. Look at Georgia, Louisiana, etc. This is how a LOT of this country is.

A red wave could enshrine a lot of this into FEDERAL law, OR, states with bought off politicians, many of whom don't actually CARE about this shit, could codify or resurrect wildly unpopular STATE laws, and have these decisions held up by this toxic ass, fucked up, hyperpartisan SCOTUS.

I still can't believe this shit is really happening. Like I've seen documentaries about these fringe lunatics, and the calculated, decades long rise of the evangelical right, but I never dreamed they'd get here.

Do we see massive partisan changes? Historic social unrest? Does the US even SURVIVE this shit?
Seriously, The ole' American experiment appears to be breaking at the seams. This isn't supposed to be minority rule through the judicial system.

THIS state already blocked pre Roe abortion law from going into effect, temporarily, but there will likely be a countersuit.

[allegro]

@elevenism , you’re forgetting that a whole shitload of the religious right have recently migrated to your state, “escaping” their “woke” states.

[elevenism]

@elevenism, you’re forgetting that a whole shitload of the religious right have recently migrated to your state, “escaping” their “woke” states.

This is true. Awful bastards.

But, STILL.
I was just using this state as an example. Again, what I'm describing is a shitload of the damn COUNTRY.

And I mean, HOW many people came here? Under no circumstances do I think it's enough to create a situation wherein ANY kind of majority, or anything NEAR a majority, supports a total abortion ban, or reinstating sodomy laws.

In fact, I live in the reddest district in the damn country, and there's no chance of majority support for that shit HERE, because Amarillo is halfway cool, as is Witchita Falls. It's the same story as the rest of the state, and a lot of the country: 70% of people in this district live in an urban environment, with punk rock shows and tattoo shops and all that cool shit.

I'd even speculate that it'd be hard to get majority support for those things in this TOWN of 2000.
The people I know are red because they see it as the "freedom" party, and/or they like guns, NOT because they want bedroom activities litigated or total abortion bans.

I just don't see these measures gaining widespread support ANYWHERE, really.
And I'm literally in the goddamn likeliest spot on the map, quantitatively, where they seemingly WOULD be popular.

[Jinsai]

Never mind that those old sodomy laws aren’t specifically targeting anal sex, but oral and in some cases anything non-missionary, and it doesn’t have to be homosexual. In a modern application, anti sodomy laws would be just as laughably prude as they are homophobic, and for that reason alone, the threat of revisiting legal action against sodomy isn’t something we need to worry about realistically happening, it’s the emboldened thought that counts.

Theres a bunch of old cranky, dusty laws still on the books just because we never bothered to put them away... like about how to properly harness up your horse outside the saloon, to blatantly unconstitutional stuff like laws preventing an atheist from running for political office.

[allegro]

Kansas is letting voters decide:

https://www.kwch.com/2022/06/24/kans...-rights-aug-2/

[allegro]

Just now in the Washington Post:

A Florida judge on Thursday blocked a new law to ban abortions in the state after 15 weeks of pregnancy, saying the measure is unconstitutional because it violates the privacy provision of the state’s constitution.
The temporary injunction by Leon County Circuit Judge John C. Cooper is expected to take effect as soon as a written order is signed. The law is slated to take effect Friday. The decision comes nearly a week after the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, leaving it up to states to regulate abortion.
The state is expected to appeal to the Florida Supreme Court, where Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) has appointed three of the seven justices.

Note that SCOTUS isn’t intended to get involved in STATE Constitution issues, AND this latest SCOTUS decision deliberately kicked decisions BACK to the individual states.

This is VERY interesting.

If they got enough voters to the polls in each state to vote on these referendums (abortion, etc.), there would ABSOLUTELY be state constitutional amendments providing privacy, equality and individual rights.

[elevenism]

@allegro re: needing warrants, a metric fuckton of our data is for sale, through data brokers. Law enforcement has already used such brokers to prosecute people for other crimes in recent years, no warrant needed.

And the menstrual cycle app, Stardust, which is insanely popular, SPECIFICALLY stated that they'd provide data to law enforcement pursuing women potentially seeking abortion procedures WITHOUT the requirement of a warrant.

So i wouldnt count on Alphabet or Meta or Uber or ANY of the companies who dodged the question, to behave any differently. I mean, they want gvmt support, right?
They'll do whatever it takes to protect the bottom line.

as far as crossing state lines, my understanding is that multiple state legislatures/anti abortion lobbyists are already looking at legislation to keep women from seeking abortion in other states, with the caveat being that the DOJ would consider it a violation of interstate commerce.

But then, that's THIS DOJ.

And regarding sharing information online, well, I hear you.
But it's become SO integrated into our society, to speak to friends online.

Suppose such legislation IS reached in a state, and Texas Cheri emails NM Sharee, asking about clinics...

I mean, you're right: the whole privacy bullshit already went out the window.

I'm just thinking about the ramifications in a post roe society. I read a few articles, found this breaking points segment, and, yeah. It freaks me out.
@Jinsai my original post mentioned hetero sodomy, but I edited it out as i was specifically using my state as an example, where heterosexual sodomy is NOT on the books at this time.
I DO remember a terrifying 1991 article in a stolen Playboy, about a woman successfully having her ex husband prosecuted for going down on her.

[elevenism]

Furthermore, for me, the most fucked up thing about ALL of this, aside from the thing itself, is that all of this shit is coming down to the courts.

SCOTUS says this, texas and Florida judge say that, etc.

This is not gvmt of/by/for the people. Rather, this is government by legal argument.

[Pillfred]

To be clear they are not figuratively talking about prosecuting women who cross state lines or attempt too??? Is this a possibility? Because to my ignorant ass that seems very fucking suspect.

*Just found this. Seems like it will be unlikely.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ban-dobbs.html

[elevenism]

I don’t care if they’re “already looking at” ways to prevent women from seeking abortions in other states; that’s strictly unconstitutional AND it’s fucking impossible. What are they gonna do? Put state border control on every inch of every border, armed with pregnancy tests and ultrasound equipment?

Get a grip.

It’s about as possible as taking people’s guns.

They’re only SAYING they want to do this TO GET VOTES.

Wellllllll, yeah.

This is why my psych lady told me to limit my news intake.

My mind always goes to the darkest possible place, and I appreciate what you're saying, here.

STILL, though, I'm highly concerned about the future of this country wrt litigation from appointed judges vs legislation by elected officials

[allegro]

Just found this. Seems like it will be unlikely.

Exactly. It's not only unlikely, it's logistically impossible!!!

Think about it: States can't even manage to control UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS from traveling between states. We can't manage to find people with EXPIRED VISAS!!

How the FUCK do we think that they're going to be able to do anything about "PREGNANT people?!"

It's not like during pre-emancipation south: "Look! There's a NEGRO!!!! WE DON'T ALLOW ANY OF THEM TO BE FREE IN THESE HERE PARTS! LET'S HANG 'EM!"

Pregnant people don't suddenly sprout a rash in the shape of a P on their foreheads.

[allegate]

Pregnant people don't suddenly sprout a rash in the shape of a P on their foreheads.

I mean...they kind of do sprout something.

[allegro]

I mean...they kind of do sprout something.

It takes a while to notice.

Ever watch this show?

[Pillfred]

@allegro


That’s what I was thinking. I had heard idea kicked around and I was sure there’s no way this can be a real possibility. That said I wouldn’t be surprised if some Governor tried to enforce it. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if mine still does. (Noem)

*mention formatting issues

[Jinsai]

I’m getting hesitant to say “but that’ll never happen.” Never forget how advanced our tech is getting at following you around. There’s also that fact that they’ve identified people from the Jan 6th crowd who were wearing masks at the event. As much as I want to see these assholes sit the revolution out in jail, it’s still disconcerting

[allegro]

I’m getting hesitant to say “but that’ll never happen.” Never forget how advanced our tech is getting at following you around. There’s also that fact that they’ve identified people from the Jan 6th crowd who were wearing masks at the event. As much as I want to see these assholes sit the revolution out in jail, it’s still disconcerting

Tech follows you after the fact. It doesn’t stop you in a car before. Only armed police do that.

If this happens, this country will be pretty much totally gone, entirely. Loss of all rights, let alone abortion rights.

That’s a police state, where pregnant women (trans people will likely be killed immediately) are imprisoned, likely with ankle monitors.

If we fear this might happen (ala Handmaid’s Tale … or, hell, the first 200 years of this country for black and indigenous people), get out now, before it’s too late.

All females will have their money cut off because funds are tagged at the bank by gender, and your passports will be locked down. White females able to reproduce won’t be able to leave. Housed in maternity camps.

Yeah, that’s true dystopia.

[elevenism]

Exactly. It's not only unlikely, it's logistically impossible!!!

Think about it: States can't even manage to control UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS from traveling between states. We can't manage to find people with EXPIRED VISAS!!

Except they DO use social media to find and deport undocumented people.
That's the precise thing that led to my concern.

And yeah, after the fact with tech: as far as cars? uber is losing money and needs gvmt support.
They'll probably give up the info, and people WILL be prosecuted.

I know I'm the doomsday motherfucker or whatever, but I wouldn't call any of this impossible.

Edit: and YES. Police state. Handmaid's Tale. Year Zero. That's EXACTLY where I'm afraid we're going, here: not all at ONCE, mind you, but incrementally? Absolutely.
I've been talking about this shit since the early 2000s.

Perhaps this shit will be stemmed by a new soc-lib counterculture

[elevenism]

@allegro I honestly feel like you're fucking with me in public, now. I didn't say Ohio to anywhere. I don't know shit about Ohio or illanoise...it might as well be another fucking planet to me. Is Illinois a town in Chicago?
Jokes aside.
I said Texas to new Mexico.
That WILL happen.

Yeah, no, I read a book a week for like 20 years, but I missed Huxley and Bradbury and Orwell, and Kate Chopin, and Gilman, and Trumbo...all that stuff was labeled "transgressive." So I wasn't allowed to read it.

I DIDN'T read Atwood, yet, to be fair.
But I did watch the tv adaptation. (Sadly, this sounds like another joke, but it isn't. I'll read it soon).

My point, here, is that a lot of this stuff is coming to fruition.

And I feel like several metric fucktons of leftitists aren't seeing the "writing on the wall," to quote a line from Lil Wayne. It's amazing that he came up with that.

ANYWAY, this is NO FUCKING JOKE.

I'm just fucking FLOORED that I'm the only person here concerned about some of these issues.

It's time to get serious. I'm done fucking around.

There's some shit I'd like to do...

Anyway, the time to stand up is coming SOON.

[elevenism]

Well, at least that.

I'm on the fence this time, though, as to whether I should calm down or not, even with friendly intervention.

I DO know that constant worry like this isn't good in the mental health department.

But these fuckers are already talking about a full on nation wide abortion ban.

[GulDukat]

Here is what is in Biden's executive order.

[elevenism]

Apparently, i'm not the only one worried about interstate travel for abortion.

Last thursday, Congressional Republicans blocked a bill to protect the right of women to seek abortions across state lines.

A second, similar bill just passed the house, but I'll eat my hat if it clears the senate with a filibuster proof majority.

Every house Republican voted against the first bill, and 205 of 208 voted against the second bill.

Missouri, Texas and Arkansas (at LEAST) are already aiming to prosecute such women, with Texas planning to use the "bounty bill" approach.

YES, interstate travel has been protected since, what, the late 1800s? But I sure don't trust this supreme court to uphold SHIT when it comes to abortion.

These are preemptive federal attempts to block dystopian shit we already KNOW some states will try. Missouri, Texas and Alabama are already hard at work passing such measures.

[elevenism]

While I'm at it, per CNN, a Texas woman was forced to carry a DEAD FETUS for TWO WEEKS, because the procedure to remove a dead fetus is pretty much identical to an abortion.
Therefore, because multiple doctors were terrified of running afoul of the Texas law, they refused to perform the procedure.

Carrying around a dead fetus can cause everything from permanent sterility to organ failure.

[versusreality]

This country is disgusting.

I want receipts for all these Republican politicians who had secret abortions with their mistresses.

I'm sure Trump is on that list too.

[Pillfred]

While I'm at it, per CNN, a Texas woman was forced to carry a DEAD FETUS for TWO WEEKS, because the procedure to remove a dead fetus is pretty much identical to an abortion.
Therefore, because multiple doctors were terrified of running afoul of the Texas law, they refused to perform the procedure.

Carrying around a dead fetus can cause everything from permanent sterility to organ failure.

My niece just lost a baby I was worried they may pull some shit like that here in S.D. but luckily she didn’t have to wait. I can’t imagine having to deal with both things at the same time.