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Thread: US Abortion Bans

  1. #31
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    Aaaaaaand the Texas abortion ban is back.

    “ Texas appeals court reinstates strict six-week abortion ban, two days after it was lifted”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...188_story.html

    @elevenism : That all sounds like hit dogs will holler. Your excuse to women is like saying “not all white people” to black people. The state of Texas is still responsible for these anti abortion laws. Period.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-08-2021 at 10:33 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Aaaaaaand the Texas abortion ban is back.

    “ Texas appeals court reinstates strict six-week abortion ban, two days after it was lifted”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...188_story.html

    @elevenism: That all sounds like hit dogs will holler. Your excuse to women is like saying “not all white people” to black people. The state of Texas is still responsible for these anti abortion laws. Period.
    The right wing supermajority in the GOVERNMENT is responsible for these anti abortion laws, NOT the people.

    I don't OWE anyone an explanation, much less an EXCUSE, because I had NOTHING to do with this, aside from using social media to let everyone know that it disgusted me, and voting against every Republican I could.
    Furthermore, i'm PRETTY sure a majority of people in this state are opposed to this shit. A LOT of people here CAN'T VOTE.

    That's like me suggesting you owe people affected by Trump's travel ban, and trans people banned from the military, an apology or an excuse.
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-08-2021 at 11:52 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    The right wing supermajority in the GOVERNMENT is responsible for these anti abortion laws, NOT the people.
    Those people in the government got there by being elected. By a majority of voting people.

    This country is absolutely responsible for Trump.

    White people are responsible for Trump.

    Absofuckinglutely.

    It’s one thing coming into the abortion thread and saying “this Texan would like to apologize for Texas and the anti-abortion bans taking place.”

    It’s another to come into this thread and say “not all Texans” and “don’t look at ME!”

    That’s like “MY family never owned slaves” or “some of my best friends are black.”

    That’s not ally language.

    If the majority of people are against something, then those people need to stand up against it. Against racism, against sexism, etc. Otherwise it never goes away.

    Look at the El Paso mass shooting. Those people who were shot? Their ancestors have been in Texas since the 1500s. But some white asshole in the suburbs of Dallas drove all the way to El Paso to shoot Hispanic people at a Walmart. And that’s what Texas means to him.

    Roe v Wade, 1973. Jane Roe wanted to get an abortion but her state wouldn’t let her.

    You know where Jane Roe lived? TEXAS.

    And anti-abortion activists have claimed Texas as Mecca ever since. It started there, and they want it to end there.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-09-2021 at 12:08 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Those people in the government got there by being elected. By a majority of voting people.

    This country is absolutely responsible for Trump.

    White people are responsible for Trump.

    Absofuckinglutely.

    It’s one thing coming into the abortion thread and saying “this Texan would like to apologize for Texas and the anti-abortion bans taking place.”

    It’s another to come into this thread and say “not all Texans” and “don’t look at ME!”

    That’s like “MY family never owned slaves” or “some of my best friends are black.”

    That’s not ally language.
    I REALLY don't think there's anything wrong with what I'm saying.
    This state is gerrymandered to fuck.
    About a sixth of our population is undocumented, and they'd almost all vote left if they could.
    And in this state, just like in this COUNTRY, the Republican party is overrepresented.
    Yes, I'm very sorry for the pieces of shit who put this in place, and I've said that. I vote against them every chance I get.
    But I REALLY don't think it represents the will of the majority of people here.
    And I've goddamn sure done everything I could to oppose it.
    It's not just "this Texan" who is diametrically opposed to this shit. It's 48 or 49% of us, plus quite a few of the 5 million undocumented people here. On top of that, the supermajority that's been running this country since the 90's has created the single most suppressive voting system in the country.
    So, no. Not every American is responsible for the idiocy of Trump, and not everyone in Texas is responsible for the actions of the state government. In FACT, in BOTH cases, I'd argue that the majority of each group of citizens is in opposition.

    And THAT'S why, with any luck, this shit will NOT stand long, or become a trend.
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-09-2021 at 12:22 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    But I REALLY don't think it represents the will of the majority of people here.
    THAT
    DOESN’T
    MATTER

    Tell the 14-yr-old girl who has to travel to another state to get an abortion because she didn’t even know she was PREGNANT until 8 weeks that “most Texans are actually pro choice.”

    See how meaningful that is to her.

    Then go read this:
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-a...-other-states/

    https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...-state-clinics

    The Republican Party isn’t over-represented in this country; there’s actually a fuckload of Republicans in this country.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-15-2021 at 10:40 AM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    THAT
    DOESN’T
    MATTER

    Tell the 14-yr-old girl who was raped and has to travel to another state to get an abortion because she didn’t even know she was PREGNANT until 8 weeks that “most Texans are actually pro choice.”

    See how meaningful that is to her.

    Then go read this:
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-abortion-law-pushes-women-to-clinics-in-other-states/

    https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...-state-clinics

    The Republican Party isn’t over-represented in this country; there’s actually a fuckload of Republicans in this country.
    I don't understand what you're getting at.
    I'm vehemently opposed to pro life bullshit.
    I have a pro choice t shirt, ffs.
    What is it that you want me to say?
    I feel like you're trying to blame me, PERSONALLY, for decisions made by an unfairly biased gvmt, which I oppose.
    I'm disgusted and infuriated by the decisions made by the gvmt here, just like I'm disgusted and infuriated with the US gvmt about 90% of the time.

    Secondly, the right IS overrepresented in Congress, according to multiple studies and news pieces I've seen.
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-09-2021 at 12:51 AM.

  7. #37
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    Edited: You’re a person without a uterus. I don’t even know why peoplr without a uterus are in abortion threads at all.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-11-2021 at 09:55 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    You’re a dude. I don’t even know why dudes are in abortion threads at all.
    I'm an ALLY. I want to figure out how to help FIX this shit.

    And, yes, despite the "not all men" comparison, I DID want to make it clear that I firmly believe that MOST of us don't approve of this theocratic dominionist insanity.

    But I hear you.

    I will leave this piece of news showing that this state is gerrymandered to right wing hell, and is considered to be an example of EXTREME gerrymandering.
    I'll also state that the majority of Americans in general are against pretty much all of this theocratic dominionist bullshit.
    but after that, I'll see myself out.
    The right does not represent the will of the people.
    This is straight up minority rule.

    https://laferianews.net/?p=9119

    I don't wanna argue anymore.
    I've said enough.
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-09-2021 at 03:15 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    You’re a dude. I don’t even know why dudes are in abortion threads at all.

    I'm a dude. I also have a uterus.

    Don't shit on people unless they give you a reason to shit on em, ok?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    You’re a dude. I don’t even know why dudes are in abortion threads at all.
    Because abortion bans affect people we care about?

  11. #41
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    sex and gender being two different things gets complicated when comes to topics like reproductive health. i call people with or without a uterus ďdudeĒ all the time. the gist of the sentiment expressed here is that people without uteruses shouldnít weigh in on the healthcare of those with a uterus. itís easy to be like ďoh well this law sucksĒ if you donít have a uterus but that doesnít exactly address the injustice that the law actually serves to the people who need abortion services.

  12. #42
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    I don't think it's good to get mad at people who are simply trying to be supportive though. Yes, it's something that I don't have to deal with directly, but abortion is about more than just the physical procedure. There's everything leading up to it and everything that comes after, which can have an effect on everyone. Living in a very, very conservative area, I know all about the emotional fallout that can come from someone having an abortion, especially when someone's family is not supportive of it. I think it's narrow-minded to say that it's "not your issue". I've heard people say the same thing about various other issues. "It doesn't affect you directly, so why should you care? It's not your issue." It's because we're human beings at the end of the day, and we should care about others, even if we're not all going through the exact same experiences. I care because I'm aware of what people have gone through because of these bans and because I'm empathetic to their struggles. Does it affect me directly? Nope, but that doesn't mean I don't care.

  13. #43
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    I think what elevenism was trying to get at is that the people of Texas are not a monolith. More Texans vehemently oppose this law than support it, but the state has been so gerrymandered over the last 30 years that the government of Texas does not represent the way the state really is. And now it looks like the gerrymandering and the overrepresentation of far-right conservatives is about to get a lot worse.

    That said, I think that the reproductive rights/justice movement needs allies across the entire sex and gender spectra as it affects everyone, not just those of us with uteruses. We should be able to get sterilization procedures when we want them, no questions asked. We should have full access to STI testing, contraceptives, fertility treatments, pre- and post-natal care, and treatments for conditions that can impact our sexual health and our reproductive health. All laws like the one in Texas are doing is making it a lot harder for everyone except the very privileged to do just that. How many people are going to die of sepsis because they can't get a D&E/D&C in a timely manner while they have a miscarriage? How many will be resigned to carrying a non-viable pregnancy to term because they don't have the resources to travel to Colorado and get the treatment they need? How many people are going to once again end up with horrible infections, or be rendered sterile, or even die because they sought out an underground abortion?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo3375 View Post
    but the state has been so gerrymandered
    Gerrymandering does not affect Senate races, or Governor races, or Presidential elections.

    @BRoswell - I’m not “mad” at anyone. I’m tired. This has been battled for 48 fucking years.

    Right now, those of us in states with the right to abortions are busy organizing ways to get those who need safe options for abortions to other states. We are providing an “underground railroad” for those in need. Many of us are offering to drive vans to pick up and deliver people who don’t have any funds to get them to other states.

    That’s how dangerous it’s gotten. There are ticking clocks.

    Words about how “we aren’t all that bad” - that’s not important. It’s worrying about something that isn’t important. It’s diverting attention from the actual topic.

    The bottom line is that 100% of pregnancies are caused by cis males. And condoms are 99.9% effective. And nearly all of these laws were passed by cis males.

    Coming into an abortion thread to defend a precious state while losing sight of what’s happening is beyond myopic.

    “I bleed red white and blue, but not for the US. I bleed lone stars.”

    In a thread about people potentially bleeding to death? Read the room.

    Quote Originally Posted by sick among the pure View Post
    I'm a dude. I also have a uterus.
    I meant no offense, I know him personally; you’re right, though; I should have used different language. I apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by leo3375 View Post
    How many people are going to die of sepsis because they can't get a D&E/D&C in a timely manner while they have a miscarriage? How many will be resigned to carrying a non-viable pregnancy to term because they don't have the resources to travel to Colorado and get the treatment they need? How many people are going to once again end up with horrible infections, or be rendered sterile, or even die because they sought out an underground abortion?
    Yup. Or can’t get to another state that provides a legal and safe abortion or procedure.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-11-2021 at 09:33 PM.

  15. #45
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    the thing is people without uteruses have been passing legislation for people with uteruses that is harmful. thatís why i think people without them should butt out. itís a private healthcare decision that state representatives should be able to make for no one. the fact that we even have to discuss it in 2021 is disappointing and terrifying. itís purely political theater for the conservative base. they donít care how many children are in foster care. they donít care if a person is ready and able to be a parent. they donít care about anything except forcing people to give birth against their will. they donít fucking care AT ALL. itís fake self righteous bullshit thatís none of their business.

    (drift: dude is genderless to me. no one uses dudetteÖright?!)

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    no one uses dudetteÖright?!)
    We used to use the term
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude

  17. #47
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    The law is insane on so many levels, but this right to sue abortion providers or people who assist in any way is where it goes into absurd dystopian fiction territory. Maybe there’s a clause to specifically deter this, but couldn’t a rapist sue his victim for trying to get an abortion? What if the father of the baby was the victim’s actual father? Could he then sue his daughter or collect 10k for blowing the whistle on anyone who tries to help her get a safe abortion?

    I feel kind of disgusted even asking that sort of question, but I’m not one of the sick fucks who crafted this evil legislation

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    The law is insane on so many levels, but this right to sue abortion providers or people who assist in any way is where it goes into absurd dystopian fiction territory.
    Here’s the full text of the law. It’s really sneaky and tricky. It’s deliberately written to try to lock out any attempts to kill it or subvert it.

    The person having the abortion is supposedly exempt from any lawsuits, but I’m not so sure.

    https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB8/id/2395961

    Sec. 171.208. CIVIL LIABILITY FOR VIOLATION OR AIDING OR
    ABETTING VIOLATION. (a) Any person, other than an officer or
    employee of a state or local governmental entity in this state, may
    bring a civil action against any person who:
    (1) performs or induces an abortion in violation of
    this subchapter;
    (2) knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets
    the performance or inducement of an abortion, including paying for
    or reimbursing the costs of an abortion through insurance or
    otherwise, if the abortion is performed or induced in violation of
    this subchapter, regardless of whether the person knew or should
    have known that the abortion would be performed or induced in
    violation of this subchapter; or
    (3) intends to engage in the conduct described by
    Subdivision (1) or (2).
    (b) If a claimant prevails in an action brought under this
    section, the court shall award:
    (1) injunctive relief sufficient to prevent the
    defendant from violating this subchapter or engaging in acts that
    aid or abet violations of this subchapter;
    (2) statutory damages in an amount of not less than
    $10,000 for each abortion that the defendant performed or induced
    in violation of this subchapter, and for each abortion performed or
    induced in violation of this subchapter that the defendant aided or
    abetted; and
    (3) costs and attorney's fees.
    Last edited by allegro; 10-11-2021 at 09:32 PM.

  19. #49
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    Redistricting/Gerrymandering DOES affect the STATE congress, @allegro
    They do the same thing at the state level that they do at the federal level.

    And, YES. what @leo3375 , said is what i was getting at, that Texas is NOT a monolith. Everywhere i look, i see US being portrayed as a piece of shit, collectively. i wanted to make it clear that the MAJORITY of us do NOT support these draconian measures.
    That's it.
    It sucks that our arguing took up so much of the thread, because yes, women's voices are more important in this case.
    That being said, do you seriously want to exclude men from this discussion?
    Are we saying that if I'm unable to bear children, i'm not allowed to have an opinion on Women's Issues?
    Aren't these issues that affected my grandmothers and great aunts? Didn't they affect my aunts and my mother?
    Does this issue not affect my cousins, and second cousins, and sister in law?
    How about all of my female friends?
    What about my stepdaughter, or my niece?
    What about THEIR female friends?

    We're supposed to shut up? You think that HELPS, if 49% of the species, who are potential allies, stay silent?
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-12-2021 at 04:32 AM.

  20. #50
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    @elevenism the thing is, your defense for Texas is practically monolithic and even jingoistic. You are proud of a state heritage and, I guess “all that it stands for,” but the end reality is that Texas is a staging grounds for this sort of draconian shit for a reason. You can’t “take the bitter with the sweet” and then focus on the reasons to celebrate it all, when we are really talking about how, now, that’s what Texas has become as far as a political powerful entity and why it is literally the continuing line in the sand to upend women’s rights.

    To talk about the good stuff that you love about the state in this context is almost a non sequitur. It hardly matters. I have many close friends who live in Texas. Nobody is suggesting that all residents of the state are troglodytes. Of course they’re not. But come on… Texas has passed a law attempting to retry Roe v Wade, and we’re talking about the good stuff that has nothing to do with that?

    Sorry… your state passed a law empowering snitches and revoking women’s rights… the flip side to that is you’re going to have to hear a bunch of outraged people scream “fuck Texas” in response
    Last edited by Jinsai; 10-12-2021 at 09:49 AM.

  21. #51
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    defending the supposed merits of a state while discussing its tyrannical abortion laws isnít allyship. texas is a shithole imo for many reasons that all have to do with policy and politics. i say this as a person who lives in georgia where we barely squeaked by with biden last election. elected representatives are trying to push a similar abortion law here. i will be writing to the reps that work on this legislation. i will support local organizations like amplify and planned parenthood that fight by lobbying. i will offer support to candidates that are opposed to laws that hinder reproductive rights. i will not wax nostalgia about georgia in the face of peopleís rights (including mine and my daughterís) being taken away.

    not having a uterus and being an ally arenít universal unfortunately. like i said before, it seems like the people pushing this kind of policy donít have a uterus. so yes, itís time for them to shut up and listen to the people who need these services and care. the best way as a male to support abortion rights is to vote for candidates that are for reproductive health rights. the second best way is to voice your opposition directly to those enacting the harmful laws. you can learn who those people are by searching your states legislation website. if you oppose this legislation, they need to hear from you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    @elevenism the thing is, your defense for Texas is practically monolithic and even jingoistic. You are proud of a state heritage and, I guess “all that it stands for,” but the end reality is that Texas is a staging grounds for this sort of draconian shit for a reason. You can’t “take the bitter with the sweet” and then focus on the reasons to celebrate it all, when we are really talking about how, now, that’s what Texas has become as far as a political powerful entity and why it is literally the continuing line in the sand to upend women’s rights.

    To talk about the good stuff that you love about the state in this context is almost a non sequitur. It hardly matters. I have many close friends who live in Texas. Nobody is suggesting that all residents of the state are troglodytes. Of course they’re not. But come on… Texas has passed a law attempting to retry Roe v Wade, and we’re talking about the good stuff that has nothing to do with that?

    Sorry… your state passed a law empowering snitches and revoking women’s rights… the flip side to that is you’re going to have to hear a bunch of outraged people scream “fuck Texas” in response
    I will.concede that.
    It's fucking horrible.
    Yes, i'm a paragon of Texas patriotism. But what's happening now is awful.
    Say Fuck Texas all you like. I understand. I JUST wanted to make it clear that I PERSONALLY believe that THIS bullshit is NOT what the majority of people here want.
    But, I hear you. I wasn't, in fact, going to say anything else about it, until you @tted me.
    We're as disturbed by this shit as the rest of you. And I'd also like to say that when you see huge protests being conducted by residents of your state, many of whom are lifelong friends, "fuck Texas and texans" is, well, it's fucking demeaning. But, i'll take it.
    IDGAF about the USA. I guess I'm feeling what some of you felt with Trump.
    I won't make ANY MORE arguments about Texas.

    My last post was mostly about men's ability to be allies.
    @sweeterthan , I've emailed my representatives, both state and federal, regarding this issue, as I do that regarding ANY issue about which I'm serious.
    I message Ronny Jackson of the federal house district 13. I message senators Cornyn and Cruz.
    I message Four Price, who is my state congressman.
    I message all of these people weekly.
    I'm not going to defend Texas anymore.

    But, do you seriously think men shouldn't speak on this issue, like, at ALL?
    Last edited by elevenism; 10-12-2021 at 04:04 PM.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    But, do you seriously think men shouldn't speak on this issue, like, at ALL?
    I never said "at all". I said it seems like people without a uterus should listen to those with a uterus. Abortion is considered a "hot button issue" that gets the conservative base riled up. Those voters think they have the right to make reproductive decisions for all because of the Bible or something without ever giving a second thought to what happens after these babies are born. Those people should definitely stfu. If they actually trusted their god, they'd live and let live.

    I'll never forget the feeling I had when RBG died. I saw it on twitter and ran out of the room my kids were in. I was scared. I knew what it meant coz DumbDumb was president. The whole thing is infuriating because Roe vs. Wade settled this for all people. It shouldn't be up for discussion EVER. Its not anyone's business EVER. I don't give a fuck if you're the sperm donor. This is about healthcare. Not your body. Not your choice.

  24. #54
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    I would like to apologize to anyone I've offended in this thread.
    It just sucks when you're passionate about something, and that thing becomes awful. I assume some of you were USA patriots, and lost THAT. I never really was- that's why my little location thing says Republic of Texas.
    I've definitely done more talking than listening, here, and when I look back at all of it, I feel somewhat ashamed of myself.

    I'm sorry, y'all, if I seemed like I was being an asshole.

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