Persecution of Religions

[Demogorgon]

And not too many decades ago, such atheists were raised by believers of one faith or another, and brought up in a Judeo-Christian culture that supported a common set of values.

The Mafia has been excommunicated by the Pope.

None of that refutes what I said.

[allegro]

The Mafia has been excommunicated by the Pope.

Read the definition of excommunication. And even excommunication is intended to be temporary punishment, to cause penance and eventual forgiveness.

Only Pope Francis excommunicated members of the mafia, but excommunication isn’t damnation. It excludes you from receiving the sacraments. But local Archdiocese can still ignore the Vatican.

The Holy Roman Catholic Church, itself, is guilty of running a pedophile ring of priests abusing children for thousands of years and is still covering it up, all of which is grounds for excommunication. It’s why I and my Catholic Husband and best GF and my Mother (raised in the Catholic Church, 12 years of Catholic school including two years of Catholic boarding school) no longer attend Catholic Church and will not give one penny to the church.

My best friend was sexually abused as a child. I was Godmother to her first born son in the Catholic Church. We were all christened as Catholic. We cannot and will not contribute to pedophiles.

You can speak for Judaism, but not for Catholicism.

Stay in your lane.

[allegro]

It could be that you had this class in Ethos

You didn’t read what I posted.

[Mantra]

With a lot of this stuff I'm basically a consequentialist in the broadest sense. A person's religion, beliefs, or philosophies mean nothing to me in and of themselves. What matters more is what these beliefs actually produce within the person and how they engage with the world as a result.

Like... Atheism is neither inherently good nor bad in the abstract. An atheist might tell themselves that it's fine to be a selfish asshole because we only get one life. In which case, I'd say that their atheism manifests itself in an unethical way. On the other hand, an atheist could decide that we all gotta help each other out and try to create the best society we can because, after all, these are the only lives we get. You could be Christian and devote yourself to nonviolence and working with the poor and fighting hatred, or you could just be a racist neocon. And I'd say the same applies to education, and anything else in life I suppose. Intelligence and education are not inherently ethical. Heidegger may have written "Being and Time," but he also became a Nazi, so ultimately it's hard for me to find much ethical value in his education or intellect. But there are countless others where their education results in a greater sense of compassion and love and fairness.

All that really matters is the end result. "By their fruits you will know them," and all that. Everything else is just a means to an end.

[Jinsai]

...which is why I'll run away from people awarding any particular outlook the special praise.

If religion is "best," then what's philosophy, how is philosophy truly different from religion when you subtract the supernatural aspect, and then do we have to wonder if we need to have a face-off with religion versus science (and of course it constantly does, because of course we have to go through this pantomime that will eventually get to the point it's going to get to), and then we consider the fact that theocracies are STILL real, so opposing religious ideas conflict with a religious law regardless of whether or not you want it to... And it all gets muddy.

Different gods are telling different groups of people to feel different things, but these beliefs are perhaps a LITTLE more powerful than a philosophical musing because they are ostensibly delivered from a supreme deciding power that's omnipotent and the end-point to debate.

Philosophy and its values and potential societal benefits are SUBJECTIVE. The same can be said of religious beliefs... except we have clearer examples of where this goes objectively wrong with religions.

[sweeterthan]

Edit: this thread is closed following admin review. Please feel free to continue to discuss the synagogue shooting in the following existing threads:

General headlines
https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...587#post454587

Gun talk
https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...aws-etc/page78

Religion
https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...Religion/page8