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Thread: Persecution of Religions

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    Take you own advice about the thicker skin. Get better arguments (that don’t involve backpedaling when your very first post reads like something Shitefart would pay you to write and you are justifiably lit up for it). I’m intolerant of stupid assholes that are ruining this country with their lies while they try to hide behind a cross. The kid gloves have been off since November 2016. It’s called having real values and knowing to rely more on science than any religion. Speaking of which, no religion should shape a country’s laws. I know the US isn’t the only place that repeatedly screws this up but we should really know better by now. I want progress and I’m sick of the people that want to Make America 1953 Again. I will not be nice to people killing the future. Fuck that cowardice.
    How am I hiding behind a cross when I'm not even a Christian?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    I thought it WAS a pretty interesting discussion, I was really enjoying it until a few of you got all paranoid and combative and mean and started trolling the thread without ever really contributing anything meaningful to the content.

    I’m disgusted.
    I haven't been trolling. All I've said, more or less, is that "obeying a strict set of commands written thousands of years ago about how to strictly go about things isn't the way to go about living your life." I'm not the one telling people how to live their life, outside of objecting to the idea that we should live by a strict set of ancient rules. You face palmed me for saying that I take in stuff from everywhere to inform my world view. I'm not even sure what you're objecting to, but I suspect it's something else that @Jaguar is objecting to here. Who knows though.

    You are completely missing my point earlier if you think I am from any viewpoint other than "let everyone live their life, as long as they leave me alone." That changes if you ask me what I think, but I don't care what people believe as long as I'm left alone.

    AND this thread is asking what people think, right? So I said what I think.
    I for one, I guess, am not going to mourn the fact that pclare isn't here to make this conversation more awesome.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 05-07-2019 at 08:53 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    I haven't been trolling. All I've said, more or less, is that "obeying a strict set of commands written thousands of years ago about how to strictly go about things isn't the way to go about living your life."
    Okay but how is that staying in topic?

    The Topic Header is: “Persecution of Religion”

    Then the original poster, IMO, doesn’t seem too soap-boxy; he poses some fodder for discussion;

    Last Saturday, another shooter went into a Synagogue and opened fire on Jews. I don't know about you, but I feel like every time I turn around lately, it's another church, another mosque, another synagogue being set on fire, or shot up, or bombed. Sure it's happened in the past, but not with this kind of frequency. When you add to this the governments who are outlawing certain religions, and torturing their practitioners and throwing them into jail (such as in China), you have to wonder...

    Tell me, when did religion become such a wickedness? When did the world declare war on it? When did tolerance go out the window?

    I am disturbed by all this.


    This is followed by some fascinating and very intelligent and informative responses to his question.

    Blaming religion, itself, for attacks on religious institutions with worshippers in them was also addressed and discussed as not always being the true motive of the terrorist; the true motive being white nationalism (viewing Jews as an undesirable ethnic group that must not replace white European Protestants), or racist, etc.

    So coming in here and digressing the topic to things like WHY people are religious in the first place is not only drift but it goes against the Constitutional freedoms that the shooters, themselves, wish to destroy.

    If you truly believed that people should live and let live, you wouldn’t even be IN this thread - since you evidently have nothing of substance to contribute related to the ACTUAL topic of the disturbing increase in anti-Semitic hate crimes, which the left has been addressing and the Right has been claiming they aren’t doing (although the FBI’s records indicate that the vast majority of these crimes are committed by far right groups) and Trump called the Charlottesville racists “good people” and publicly stated that he believes that White Nationalists are rare outliers.

    Live and let live includes defense of people’s right to do so without fear of death.

    It should also include the ability to partake in an intelligent discussion without being shouted down by people telling you that your “people” being killed kinda deserve it for being religious so stop playing the “victim.”

    I wasn’t talking about Pclare.

    I meant more like Achamoth and Elke.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post

    Blaming religion, itself, for attacks on religious institutions with worshippers in them was also addressed and discussed as often not being the true motive of the terrorist; the true motive being white nationalism (viewing Jews as an undesirable ethnic group that must not replace white European Protestants), or racist, etc.
    And this was another point I was making earlier.

    So coming in here and digressing the topic to things like WHY people are religious in the first place is not only drift but it goes against the Constitutional freedoms that the shooters, themselves, wish to destroy,
    You aren't going to have a discussion about the persecution of religion without an extrapolation that examines WHY people are religious in the first place.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    You aren't going to have a discussion about the persecution of religion without an extrapolation that examines WHY people are religious in the first place.
    Look, his TITLE HEADER SUCKED, OKAY?

    If you read his POST, it’s more about banning religions and about killing people who practice them.

    Then, because first posts don’t live in a vacuum, some astute posters, including one who works in Christian ministry, pointed out that murdering people of a particular religion isn’t usually about the religion; it’s usually more often about their race or ethnicity. Then the thread grew from there.

    Like the Holocaust. That wasn’t about religion.

    This was interesting.

    Then you guys showed up.

    Going way the FUCK off into the WEEDS about why people are religious in the first place is a useless discussion that has NOTHING to do with why people are KILLING said people, UNLESS you are proposing that people are killing religious people because they EXIST and the killings are an attempt to exterminate all religious people.

    Which is unfounded. And drift.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 09:29 PM.

  6. #66
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    so, you want a discussion where we talk about the motivations of people ABUSING their false piety to attack religious groups, but not look at what makes people believe this stuff in the first place, and why people cling to these beliefs. The people who believe this stuff are being weaponized, and they're hitting true-believer targets to send a message, but we can't talk about belief?

    So, I said my piece, but if THAT is where this is going, I'll bow out and you guys can enjoy the conversation you were enjoying before I completely ruined it by offering my two cents on the nature of belief and how I think it's central to the discussion.

    I'll see myself out.

  7. #67
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    @Jinsai : I think this thread went off the rails when people assumed, from the OP, that the original poster was Christian and felt persecuted, but he's Jewish, so several posts after that addressed him as if he's Christian, but he's not.

    The statistics don't show that religion drives killing Jews or Muslims or non-Protestant Christians, etc., as already discussed. The stats point to the current killings being motivated by white nationalism, exceptionalism, "othering," etc.

    And this has been going on for thousands of years. My answer to the OP is this: It's worse right now, but it's been WAY fucking worse, before.

    Like, um, PASSOVER is a good example?
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 10:10 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If our religion doesn't govern our lives, it's pretty impotent.
    Which it is. Religion only has power if we give it power. On its own, it's nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    It should also include the ability to partake in an intelligent discussion without being shouted down by people telling you that your “people” being killed kinda deserve it for being religious so stop playing the “victim.”
    I find the idea that people deserve to be killed for their religion abhorrent, and being accused of such thinking is incredibly misguided. I don't believe that, and if your takeaway from my comments is that I do, you should re-read them.
    Last edited by BRoswell; 05-07-2019 at 10:11 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    But, she makes those choices willingly
    I feel that any "life choice" you make before the age of ten and then stick to for the rest of your life, but felt at least troubled by the concept of abandoning it, is not really a "choice," but there I go again with my drift... even though we're talking about apostasy, which can get you killed in some parts of the world.

    But AGAIN, if your religious beliefs aren't spurring you into yelling at people about how they're going to hell or leading you to becoming politically involved in restricting others' rights, or not KILLING OTHER PEOPLE because of what you believe, then who cares what I think about it. AND YES, to be on topic, the people directing the killing are abusing convictions; the people pulling the trigger though are TRUE BELIEVERS.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 05-07-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    I feel that any "life choice" you make before the age of ten and then stick to for the rest of your life, but felt at least troubled by the concept of abandoning it, is not really a "choice," but there I go again with my drift... even though we're talking about apostasy, which can get you killed in some parts of the world.
    I deleted that portion of my thread to avoid drift, but in this case she was a fellow student in my college who's really intelligent and was getting a B.A. in English and then was going for a Master's degree. While wearing an abaya and a hijab. She got married to a guy in an arranged marriage. And she's GORGEOUS. It's all really foreign to me. But, lots of shit I'm used to is really foreign to people in other countries. My Mom mixes ginger and wasabi in her soy sauce at sushi restaurants then dunks her entire sushi into it then swirls it around until it's completely inundated in soy mix and she makes the sushi chefs want to commit hari kari.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 10:16 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    I deleted that portion of my thread to avoid drift, but in this case she was a fellow student in my college who's really intelligent and was getting a B.A. in English and then was going for a Master's degree. While wearing a hijab. She got married to a guy in an arranged marriage. And she's GORGEOUS. It's all really foreign to me. But, lots of shit I'm used to is really foreign to people in other countries. My Mom mixes ginger and wasabi in her soy sauce at sushi restaurants then dunks her entire sushi into it then swirls it around until it's completely inundated in soy mix and she makes the sushi chefs want to commit hari kari.
    Well, here's the end of my drift, but your mom is ordering a well done steak and smothering it in ketchup.

    But on topic, whatever makes her happy.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell
    I do not believe that religion should govern our lives
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar
    If our religion doesn't govern our lives, it's pretty impotent.
    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell
    Which it is. Religion only has power if we give it power. On its own, it's nothing.
    Okay, but "our" is a subjective term, here, right?

    Your "our" means you don't let religion govern your life.

    His "our" means that if religion doesn't govern his life, it's impotent.

    He's not asking his religion to govern your life, right? He's only saying that it governs his?

    The OP also said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    As a Jew, I've experience discrimination first hand. I've lived down the street from shootings and attended a synagogue that had been rebuilt after a fire started by a molotov cocktail. I've personally been accosted in the street, and I've been called every vile name in the book.

    Because of those experiences, I'm very sensitive to others being discriminated against: different races, women, LGBT, different religions, immigrants, different nationalities, etc. When one of us is discriminated against, all of us are.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 10:28 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Okay, but "our" is a subjective term, here, right?

    Your "our" means you don't let religion govern your life.

    His "our" means that if religion doesn't govern his life, it's impotent.

    He's not asking his religion to govern your life, right?
    It's not about his religion governing my life. My point is that religion only has power if we give it power. It has no power on its own, therefore letting something like that govern your life seems futile to me. It's his life and he can do what he wants, but I also can point out how I feel about that.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    It's his life and he can do what he wants, but I also can point out how I feel about that.
    And tell him how to feel about that?

    Which it is. [Impotent.] Religion only has power if we give it power. On its own, it's nothing.
    This avocado has no power until I stick it into my mouth. Until then, it's nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    I find the idea that people deserve to be killed for their religion abhorrent, and being accused of such thinking is incredibly misguided.
    I'm glad you find it abhorrent, that's good.

    I said to @Jinsai :

    It should also include the ability to partake in an intelligent discussion without being shouted down by people telling you that your “people” being killed kinda deserve it for being religious so stop playing the “victim.”
    I didn't quote you, but if you read through this thread you will find evidence from others.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-09-2019 at 03:18 PM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    It's not about his religion governing my life. My point is that religion only has power if we give it power. It has no power on its own, therefore letting something like that govern your life seems futile to me. It's his life and he can do what he wants, but I also can point out how I feel about that.
    Religion is like any object of power. It DOES have its own power. But it depends upon free will as to whether a person will avail itself of that power or not. Basically, if a person wants to change and better themselves, there is no better tool than religion. But not everyone chooses religion, and even many within a given religion don't avail themselves of its tools. It only works for those that grasp it by the horns and ride it for all its worth. Sorry for so many different metaphors! LOL

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Basically, if a person wants to change and better themselves, there is no better tool than religion.
    I completely disagree. I've seen the harm that religion causes on a global scale, and I'm not just speaking of terrorism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    And tell him how to feel about that?
    He doesn't HAVE to feel any which way about what I said. Why do you assume that I feel like I have some sort of power over him just because I'm speaking my mind?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    He doesn't HAVE to feel any which way about what I said. Why do you assume that I feel like I have some sort of power over him just because I'm speaking my mind?
    I don't. I don't get why you don't get the basic premise of letting people believe what they want, because they're not going to believe otherwise and this is just a circle jerk?

    shrug

    It's like my saying I hate eggplant, then 5 people come in here telling me how fucking delicious eggplant is. But I'm never going to be convinced that I like eggplant, even if eggplant has special cancer healing powers. On the other hand, I'm not going to go into the eggplant forum and tell them all how much I fucking hate eggplant, and counter every eggplant recipe with a suggestion that the eggplant is not fit for human consumption and that I have disdain for people who enjoy eggplant, and then the eggplant people chase me out of the forum and facepalm me until I have a sunburned appearance.

    Like, above, @Jaguar speaks from a philosophical and deeply personal level based on his own relationship with G-d, when he says that if a person wants to better themselves they can get it from religion, because he's obviously experienced that, himself. Then, you counter that you COMPLETELY DISAGREE that it can do that. And NOBODY is gonna win (or get anything beneficial from) this discussion, and he's just proven his point about a growing disdain for religion after you site the "harm that religion causes on a global scale."

    Here's an interesting article: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/o...-violence.html

    @elevenism said something earlier which Obama also says in this article: “Some currents of Islam have not gone through a reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.”

    I think we can say the same thing about Evangelicals.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 11:53 PM.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    And NOBODY is gonna win (or get anything beneficial from) this discussion...
    See, that's the problem. It's not about winning an argument for me. I'm not here to claim some sort of victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    See, that's the problem. It's not about winning an argument for me. I'm not here to claim some sort of victory.
    Okay, but when the discussion is about the increase in violence against religion (which is fact), and your opinion = religion sucks and is unnecessary, is there a correlation between the fact and your opinion (to rescue it from being a non sequitur)? A Venn diagram?

    Other than what you stated is NOT a correlation (that religion invites violence and deserves it by its mere existence = intolerance).
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-08-2019 at 01:03 AM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Okay, but when the discussion is about the increase in violence against religion (which is fact), and your opinion is religion sucks and is unnecessary, is there a correlation between the fact and your opinion (to rescue it from being a non sequitur)? A Venn diagram?
    The correlation is that violence against religions tends to be perpetrated by people from other religions, which I find to be absurd since most religions (the popular ones anyway) are not all that different from each other. People are so focused on the differences between their preferred religions that they're blind to what makes them so similar. I find the loss of human life to be tragic no matter what religion is involved, but the core concept of killing in the name of your religion is utterly ridiculous to me.

    To steer this back to the original topic: I don't find religion in general to be persecuted around the world. Yes, certain religions are persecuted in places, but the idea that non-religious bigotry is running rampant is silly. So much of our world is governed by what the religious believe. Shit, banks and many businesses here in the States are closed on Sundays simply because we've been told that God rested on that day. Most of our politicians identify as religious, and use their religion as justification for how they lead us. The idea that the religious are somehow being shunned and forced into the dark is ridiculous to me. Others may not see it that way, but that's the way it seems to me.

  21. #81
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    You should read this article:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/31/n...afety-nyc.html

    Throughout history, and throughout the world, anti Semitism is largely committed by groups like the KKK or Nazis or white nationalists, who harm or kill Jews due to their ethnicity and not their religion. This is where the TITLE of the thread is incorrect. Attacking a man in NYC for “speaking Hebrew” is totally unrelated to his religion. It’s related to his ethnicity. Swastikas plastered on Synagogues and around the city aren’t put there by a religious group. The Holocaust didn’t happen because of the Jews’ religion, and the people who did it weren’t motivated by religion.

    Blue laws have faded in nearly every state in the union. Bank and labor union laws are now the most predominant reason why some businesses are closed on Sundays, related to overtime, etc. In fact, most businesses are now open on Sunday and on Christmas. Again, the title doesn’t strictly drive discussion. The OP posed this statement as fodder for discussion: “Even those who don't advocate violence get caught up in anti-religious rhetoric.” He missed the point that a lot of worldwide anti Semitism isn’t rooted in religion, at all; it’s based on thousands of years of scapegoating. “Merchant of Venice” and Shylock.

    Anyway, thanks for your explanation. I just hope and wish that people can live together peacefully and respectfully; sure, people can have their differences, but when anger gets into the picture, that's where it all starts to get bad. Anger begets the rhetoric that I think the original poster was trying to convey. There are a TON of articles about this in the news for the last several months, very interest pieces about how we may be wording our opinions in ways that are unwittingly inciting things.

    Rep. Omar, for instance. I learned a lot from when that happened, as did she. Charging Jews with having "dual loyalty," for instance, is anti-Semitic. Then, guys like Rep. Crenshaw, who went after Rep. Omar for being anti-Semitic, questions HER loyalty and is, in affect, exhibiting anti-Muslim tropes. These very public displays can and do fuel the fires of nationalism; right after these things happen, attacks happen.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-08-2019 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    I completely disagree. I've seen the harm that religion causes on a global scale, and I'm not just speaking of terrorism.
    But these are exceptions to the rule, from Islam to Christianity to Buddhism to Hinduism. These are people who have bigotry and violence in them when they enter religion, and simply USE religion to excuse what is actually their own character flaw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    But these are exceptions to the rule, from Islam to Christianity to Buddhism to Hinduism. These are people who have bigotry and violence in them when they enter religion, and simply USE religion to excuse what is actually their own character flaw.
    So, when people take bad things from religion, it has nothing to do with religion, but when people get good things out of it, it's entirely because of the power of religion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    So, when people take bad things from religion, it has nothing to do with religion, but when people get good things out of it, it's entirely because of the power of religion?
    Bad people often use religion as an excuse to do bad shit. They twist interpretations to serve their own purpose (which can be done with anything, really; politics, labor unions, education, law, philosophy, etc.)

    Good people are good people, and religion is inspirational for them to do more good things.

    Religion was pretty much invented to keep people civilized. The people who corrupt the intent are the ones who are less about the original intention of religion and more about fulfilling some personal agenda (greed, sexual abuse, power, intolerance), or have mental illness, or are just plain old stupid.

    The example I always think of, that makes me laugh, is the sect of Christian people down south who handle snakes in church during their service. And they get BIT by these snakes. A LOT. But they do this because the Bible says “These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will . . . pick up snakes with their hands.” But nobody is supposed to take most of this shit LITERALLY. The Bible also says, “And when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all,” but they ain’t drinking POISON in church. And it’s the same shit with Islamic suicide bombers allegedly wanting the “72 virgins” but there is no such thing, there is the Houri which is like Plato’s Forms meets Hustler and your Wettest Dreams.

    The Bible, the Torah, the Quran, they’re all pieces of LITERATURE. You and I have BACHELOR DEGREES in interpreting literature. We studied various forms of interpretative literary theory. Academic research yields THOUSANDS of essays interpreting classic pieces of literature, in different ways.

    Combine the various possibilities of literary interpretation with the AGE of the books plus the translations, and you have a powder keg.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-08-2019 at 10:47 PM.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Good people are good people, and religion is inspirational for them to do more good things.
    But there are good people who don't need religion to be good people, so why do those other good people need religion for them to do good things?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    But there are good people who don't need religion to be good people, so why do those other good people need religion for them to do good things?
    They don’t “need” religion; they “want” religion. Their “need” isn’t a need in the addictive sense or the imperative sense; they’d still likely be good people without organized religion. But these people tend to enjoy several aspects of organized religion, like socializing, gathering, rituals (like directed prayers and music), classes, philanthropic efforts, etc.

    I’m totally antisocial so the thought of all that stuff turns me off. Which is why I don’t go to church. All that hand-shaking and small talk and coffee cake and social groups ain’t my thing. But, I get why people do it. It helps lonely people be less lonely, joins families in the community, joins children in extracurricular activities.

    My single Mom couldn’t afford summer camp when I was a kid, but the Baptist churches had free summer day camp programs where a bus picked us latchkey kids up and we did arts and crafts all day and played games and it wasn’t any kind of crazy religious indoctrination; it was just people caring for bored children in the summer and keeping all of us busy. And we weren’t even Baptist, and nobody cared and nobody asked. Some of the best times we ever had.

    My hairstylist has two kids, she’s a single Mom, she can barely afford daycare; daycare during the summer is INSANELY expensive. But she found a summer day camp program through the local Jewish Community Center for pretty cheap. She discovered, as I did when I joined the gym at my local JCC, that you don’t have to be Jewish to partake in the services offered by the JCC. So her non-Jewish young children will be attending a low-cost JCC summer day camp program, thanks to the money raised by the Jewish community.

    The local Lutheran churches have programs that assist low income elderly people, including providing housing and meals. I’m not Lutheran but I’ve directed several low income elderly people to these resources (who don’t have to be Lutheran to obtain them). These are elderly who are being forced to choose between paying for rent, medication or food. The local and Federal governments are not providing for these people. The CHURCHES are covering the slack. Many local churches have food pantries for people whose SNAP benefits are insufficient to feed themselves and their families. Church members enjoy being a part of this assistance, donating their time collecting food and disbursing it every week. Many churches conduct coat drives in the winter. Being a part of a religious community is what drives these people to be in a group that can use their combined resources to perform philanthropic work. They feel a kinship with a shared drive, and they have the church’s benefit of tax exemption.

    (The new tax code and the revised deduction has greatly hurt most charities, since nobody can write off charitable deductions because most people are not likely to write off more than the standard deduction.)


    AMENDMENT I
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Our founding fathers included this clause with the intention of liberty and tolerance.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-09-2019 at 03:14 PM.

  27. #87
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    Just gonna put this here:


  28. #88
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    Personally, I feel like widespread religious tolerance is always going to have an uphill battle to face given the very nature of religious belief.

    See, it's easier to adopt a pluralistic "live and let live" attitude about things that are personal, subjective, or just unique to your particular culture. When it comes to cultural differences in food, art, fashion, social customs, etc, people have an easier time being tolerant because the stakes just aren't as high and "the other" is not a direct threat. In those examples, the mere existence of another form of cultural expression doesn't completely negate or cancel out your own, so it's a little easier to coexist.

    Whereas monotheistic religion is, for the most part, a zero sum game. They're designed to cancel each other out. Which is why it's rare that a "true believer" of a major religion is going to think, "Sure, this happens to be my little belief system, but who's to say what's actually true? Maybe that other religion over there is correct and mine is completely false." Obviously there ARE many who think that way, but those people are not the "true believers." They are the doubters, the skeptics, the wavering believers. Or they're simply very humble, open-minded people who have decided to soften and minimize the absolutism of their own religions, essentially deciding that their own private reasoning can supersede the actual doctrines of their religion. But for the "true believer," this God is 100% objectively real, every bit as real as this keyboard and this wooden desk right here, and so is every last word of his doctrine. If you truly see the universe this way, there's no way you're gonna shrug your shoulders and be like "Maybe those other religions are just as good as mine." So I would argue that the very notion of equality and coexistence among the major religions is antithetical to their inherent design and would completely invalidate their authority and their claims to objective, universal truth. They can't ALL be right, and I think any religious believer who argues otherwise can only do so by standing in direct opposition to their religion (which many people do, of course, and I have a lot of respect for that).

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    So, when people take bad things from religion, it has nothing to do with religion, but when people get good things out of it, it's entirely because of the power of religion?
    If someone is inspired by a movie to go out and shoot people, is it the movie's fault?

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archive_Reports View Post
    If someone is inspired by a movie to go out and shoot people, is it the movie's fault?
    Are movies equal to ancient mass religions?

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