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Thread: Persecution of Religions

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    02 Calling those of us that don’t give a fuck about what religion you practice bigots because we don’t want your religion to be our rules nor do we want to hear about it 24/7; especially this false narrative about Christians being oppressed in the US.
    But be careful about this, see. This is how these terrorists felt, then they took it to a REALLY extreme level.

    I believe that is what @Jaguar is trying to say. And I agree. (He’s a Jew and I was raised Catholic, two of the groups that have been targeted by the KKK.)

    I don’t think some of you have read the whole thread.

    Not giving a fuck about what religion you practice is fine. That’s neutral. That’s allowing Jews to worship and live in peace, without fear of being shot in a Synagogue; which is what @Jaguar said.

    Let’s read this exchange with intelligence and without anger or hostility:

    (1) It's all religious absurdism in my opinion. To me, faith and spirituality are private things that you keep between yourself and your gods or whatever you feel connected to.

    (2) Which is exactly the sort of anti-religious bigotry we've come to expect from too many non-religious. You seek to amputate our religious beings, so that we don't actually live it in our day to day lives.

    I don’t see ANY hostility in (2). I see the Constitution’s freedom of religion, freedom to worship in a Synagogue without bring shot, freedom to worship in a Mosque without being bombed, freedom to practice your religion while also understanding the separation between church and state.

    What I see in (1) is opinion, an opinion that perhaps relates to the “religion” in the title of the thread, BUT the title of the thread is “Persecution of Religion” which (1) comes pretty damned close to exhibiting, albeit perhaps unwittingly.

    Sure, the OP was perhaps somewhat inartful in articulation, but I did not see it as particularly incendiary. The OP asked a question to start a thoughtful discussion.

    The majority of the discussion has been about innocent worshippers being murdered trying to privately practice their religion.

    The discussion included whether or not racism and nationalism also had a LOT to do with these church-burnings.

    So, to come in here and say that getting rid of all religions (and to be secretly spiritual, e.g. in communist countries) would rid the world of religious persecution is not a logical or constructive suggestion, especially considering that the people who commit these acts of terror wish to rid the world of specific TYPES of religions that they - in their opinions - do not find acceptable.

    Complaining of hearing about Jews 24/7 is exactly the thing that Unite the Right blasts on their web sites.

    Complaining about Christians infiltrating society is exactly the thing that ISIS blasts in their propaganda.

    There’s stuff we say that is inflammatory and we don’t even realize it. Put a bunch of inflamed people together (on 8chan) and they work each other up so much that a few compose manifestos and murder people.

    Words and opinions, shared publicly, are powerful, and can be dangerous.

    We all should stop seeing every damned thread as a confrontation or opportunity to get into the wrestling ring, and instead see it for an intelligent discussion.

    I live in an area where my supermarket has a huge Kosher section and two Rabbis on staff, and a huge Passover or Rosh Hashanah section during each holiday. Many of our local restaurants are closed early on Friday and closed all day Saturday for Shabbat. It’s a minor inconvenience, much like businesses closed or open later on Sunday or closed on Christmas is a minor inconvenience for them. But we all live peaceably and respectfully together.

    There’s an Israeli restaurant near me that’s great, I’d never eaten FRIES ON A SHWARMA until we went there.

    This isn’t SOLELY religion; it’s culture. It’s a shared heritage.

    See this.

    When we asked Jews about what is and is not essential to their own sense of Jewishness, 73% say remembering the Holocaust is essential (including 76% of Jews by religion and 60% of Jews of no religion). Almost as many Jews, 69%, say leading an ethical and moral life is essential, and 56% cite working for social justice and equality; only 19% say observing Jewish law is essential.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 01:55 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    We all should stop seeing every damned thread as a confrontation or opportunity to get into the wrestling ring, and instead see it for an intelligent discussion.
    That's a novel and slightly radical concept for some of the people around here.

    Edit: And that facepalm just illustrates my point, so thanks, bro.
    Last edited by Demogorgon; 05-07-2019 at 03:09 PM.

  3. #33
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    It didn’t, but keep up that passive aggressiveness!

    You’re free to worship safely and whatever religion you choose. What shouldn’t happen, for example, is the bitching and moaning fake Christians in the US do about “the war on Christmas,” abortion rights (recently spouting false info about post delivery abortions), and the “We’re so oppressed because you won’t do it how we like.” attitude which is exactly how this thread began and then he pivoted to actual violence, which obviously, I am against—see my various posts on white terrorism in the last few years. It isn’t persecution to tell these people whining about their (OFTEN TWISTED AND CHERRY PICKED) Christian beliefs to stop. Bake the fucking cake. Sign the fucking marriage license. Go tell mother I said to shut the fuck up, Pence. Trump is not a Christian. Can you see the difference between these falsehoods and something absolutely legit like the Holocaust?

    I can’t believe I even have to spell this all out but here we are.
    Last edited by Swykk; 05-08-2019 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #34
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    When you react sensitively in a public forum where nobody is going to do an investigation of your prior posts, and in a thread about religious persecution, yes: You have to be clear and spell it out. So thanks for clearing it up.

    The OP was merely echoing the news that was all over the place, because Evangelicals are losing control and they are DESPERATE to hang on to whatever they can. The OP merely started a conversation, but we can discuss it respectfully and responsibly without resorting to ad hominem retorts, right?


    Regarding the OP and Obama and Clinton not specifically mentioning “Christians” after the Sri Lanka attack:

    The Right has brought this up, ad nauseam, as somehow being offensive.

    It’s not.

    It’s strategic.

    Just like not calling ISIS “Radical Islam” (which implies there IS such a thing as radical Islam when, actually, ISIS is a CULT that uses religion as an EXCUSE to commit atrocities).

    The Poway shooter is a religious Calvinist Evangelical. Note that the Right (as @Jaguar noted) has NOT been blasting that the shooter is a “Radical Evangelical.” Because they don’t want that kind of negative PR, but ALSO because the shooter’s primary motive was white nationalism and there is no such thing as radical Evangelicals.

    Slave owners in the South used passages from the Bible to justify ownership of human beings as property.

    People twist the 2nd Amendment to mean they should own rocket launchers.

    This isn’t about what or who; it’s about the root, it’s about why.

    After the recent Sri Lanka Church bombing, Obama said it was a crime against “humanity.”

    This is true.

    This does not solely affect Christians; it affects any worshipper wishing the freedom to peacefully worship and celebrate a holiday with their family.

    This also means the freedom to not worship, which is also protected by our Constitution.

    But, whatever, EVERY human has the right to life, to celebrate with family without being shot or blown up.

    Being upset that Obama or Clinton did not specify Christianity is indicative of the ROOT of the PROBLEM that SEPARATES us all, misses the point that the dead were - first and foremost - INNOCENT PEOPLE.

    Here’s the other thing, re bake the cake:

    That bakery owner? He’s out of business. He stood by his beliefs and it cost him his business. And gay couples had lots of other willing bakeries to use, which they did, as exhibited by that baker being unemployed.

    The county clerk who refused to sign the marriage licenses for same sex couples? She lost the recent election.

    The recent abortion laws? They will either be struck down by Federal Courts or an Underground of safe abortion providers will develop.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  5. #35
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    New Trump rule allows medical care employees to refuse to treat someone if it goes against their religious beliefs

    If my outrage over this is called persecution, then fine, persecute the fuck out of these people. If you spent years of your life training to heal people and then refuse to do so because some crumbly old book says you shouldn't, your ass should be fired on the spot. Period. End of story.

    Your religious preferences have NOTHING to do with my medical needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    That bakery owner? He’s out of business. He stood by his beliefs and it cost him his business. And gay couples had lots of other willing bakeries to use, which they did, as exhibited by that baker being unemployed.
    Source? (Assuming you're referring to Philips)

  6. #36
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    I'm curious as to what @Jaguar 's agenda is here with these posts. The far right obsession with Clinton and Obama gave it away.

    Who are you working for?

    It's such an underhanded tactic, I would respect these right wingers alot more if they were just honest and said "yes, I'm a xenophobe, racist, and I hate liberals.". But to try to spin it around the way they do, by dividing people, is just down right low.

  7. #37
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    “abortion, sterilization or assisted suicide”

    That’s been around forever. Catholic hospitals and medical big-box groups have NEVER done this. I had a GYN out of Resurrection Hospital (now part of Advocate Healthcare) for years back in the 90s who used to joke about what “the Nuns” wouldn’t let him do, as a Dr. out of that hospital. He could go practice at another hospital, he knew that. But he knew that his employer had these restrictions, just like other employers had other restrictions of employment.

    Trump is just ass-kissing.

    I had read that the CO guy was close to losing his business, but looks like he’s still around. (He has a “donate” button on his web site.) Which is, as much as people don’t like it, his right; he says he’s not against the people, he’s against “the message” (on the cake) and he also doesn’t make all kinds of other cakes, like bachelorette cakes with penises on it, etc.

    Christianity is the largest organized religion in the world, so of COURSE it’s not the most persecuted.

    But none of us are forced to ONLY live by the rules of Christianity, and he is not being forced to bake a gay cake.

    The state is separate from the church.

    The state’s job is to issue marriage licenses in order to maintain jurisdiction and control over the marriage, which is a contract. To the state, their role in issuance of a marriage license is no different than a fishing license or a driver’s license or a gun license.

    The church can absolutely refuse to marry you. The baker can absolutely refuse to bake your cake.

    Because of religious beliefs, which are written into our Constitution, which is a big reason why our country was founded (pilgrims escaping religious persecution).

    BUT, there ARE limits.

    NO pharmacist can deny you your medication.

    NO doctor can deny you emergency treatment. Perform an “emergency abortion?” Hmmm, that sounds like a miscarriage. This is all just smoke and mirrors, a diversionary tactic aimed at getting Trump’s base to focus on shit that Court’s found legal a long time ago and he’s (illegally) backing with an EO as a form of slight of hand to get people to ignore Putin, Kim, Mueller, etc.

    The original post “persecution” related to DEATHS, not cakes, and opened the discussion to same.

    The inartful addition of text at the bottom perhaps indicates the OP’s lack of experience in composing a first post in a new thread. But in the over 30 years I’ve been online, a first post in a thread was always intended to spark discussion.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    I'm curious as to what @Jaguar 's agenda is here with these posts. The far right obsession with Clinton and Obama gave it away.

    Who are you working for?

    It's such an underhanded tactic, I would respect these right wingers alot more if they were just honest and said "yes, I'm a xenophobe, racist, and I hate liberals.". But to try to spin it around the way they do, by dividing people, is just down right low.
    He said he is a Jew whose Synagogue now has to weigh whether or not they should hire armed guards, which means other programs would suffer.

    A provocative intro post doesn’t prove an agenda.

    A right wing Christian Jew who attends Synagogue? Is this from an 8chan word generator?
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 04:40 PM.

  9. #39
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    Here’s most of the original post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Last Saturday, another shooter went into a Synagogue and opened fire on Jews. I don't know about you, but I feel like every time I turn around lately, it's another church, another mosque, another synagogue being set on fire, or shot up, or bombed. Sure it's happened in the past, but not with this kind of frequency. When you add to this the governments who are outlawing certain religions, and torturing their practitioners and throwing them into jail (such as in China), you have to wonder...

    Tell me, when did religion become such a wickedness? When did the world declare war on it? When did tolerance go out the window?

    I am disturbed by all this.
    Let’s take a look;

    Here’s an article from May 1st.

    Anti-Semitic attacks spike, killing most Jews in decades

    Israeli researchers reported Wednesday that violent attacks against Jews spiked significantly last year, with the largest reported number of Jews killed in anti-Semitic acts in decades, leading to an “increasing sense of emergency” among Jewish communities worldwide.

    Capped by the deadly shooting that killed 11 worshippers at Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue on Oct. 27, assaults targeting Jews rose 13% in 2018, according to Tel Aviv University researchers. They recorded nearly 400 cases worldwide, with more than a quarter of the major violent cases taking place in the United States.

    But the spike was most dramatic in western Europe, where Jews have faced even greater danger and threats. In Germany, for instance, there was a 70% increase in anti-Semitic violence.

    “There is an increasing sense of emergency among Jews in many countries around the world,” said Moshe Kantor, president of the European Jewish Congress, an umbrella group representing Jewish communities across the continent.

    “It is now clear that anti-Semitism is no longer limited to the far-left, far-right and radical Islamist’s triangle — it has become mainstream and often accepted by civil society,” he said.



    Coping With The Persistent Trauma Of Anti-Muslim Rhetoric And Violence


    In the U.S., while many young Muslims wept over the loss of life and the hate that drove the killings, they said they weren't surprised. They're a generation that has been raised on a constant barrage of anti-Muslim rhetoric since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

    For most of their lives, if not all of their lives, the U.S. has been at war in Afghanistan and Iraq; elected officials from across the spectrum have questioned their patriotism and their loyalties. Meanwhile, mass violence has become almost commonplace, with schools across the United States holding mass-shooting drills for children and, in the past few years, rising numbers of hate crimes against American Muslims and other minorities.

    "Every given day there are more Muslims dying, either by these terrorists, in the name of terrorism or in the war against terrorism. But how the trauma is being internalized is what concerns me," Abbasi said. Because Muslim life, she said, can feel like it's worthless to others.

    "We already know that trauma can be very disruptive. It's like your story is cut off. Suddenly it takes away your sense of safety, your sense of predictability, but it can also impact your ability to trust, relate, connect, and you feel very isolated and disconnected."

    Abbasi points to statistics that show young Muslims are feeling more alienated. Muslim parents report bullying in K-12 school at nearly double the rate of Jewish kids and at more than double and triple the rates of Protestant and Catholic school-age children, respectively. In some cases that bullying is coming from teachers. A survey from the Pew Research Center found that about two-thirds of Muslims don't think other Americans see them as mainstream.
    Recently, the Duke of Cambridge visited victims of the Christchurch Mosque shooting (at the request of the New Zealand PM), including a little girl who’d recently came out of a coma and finally started speaking. This royal visit showed unity with the Muslim community, and it took place a full month after the Mosque shooting.



    The comments on Instagram? Filled with these comments: “WHY AREN’T YOU VISITING THE CHRISTIANS IN SRI LANKA???” (Which bombing had happened only 4 days prior, never mind the fact that his Grannie being the head of the Church of England requires no show of unity toward Christians ... it’s a foregone conclusion.)

    The OP poses a good question, particularly in light of the above and considering that people are grouping innocent school children in with ISIS terrorists: “When did tolerance go out the window?”

    Can we become more tolerant?

    Is Trump fueling the intolerance?
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 05:41 PM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    As bleak as what @BRoswell said is, a lot of it is true.

    I would say that organized religion, for all the good effects it can have, is also fucking DANGEROUS, because of a few people.

    There's a verse in the old testament that says something to the effect of "if you find a town where a different God is worshipped, then, you must kill everyone there, and kill all their animals, and burn the town."

    Here's another thing. The Christians of TODAY aren't usually killing people, @Jaguar , but think of the crusades and the inquisition. ANd, I think part of the reasons that Muslims ARE, is because Islam is a much newer religion. I think that, in another 500 years, there won't be hardly any Muslims who take the violent shit in the Koran, (like that verse in the bible,) so literally. Christianity and Judaism have had time to mellow. Islam hasn't had nearly as much time.
    @Jaguar , we always have at least one person armed at my church. We rotate who it is: the sheriff, a cop, one dude with a concealed carry permit. Could you guys do it like that?
    I think that you are correct that it becomes dangerous in the hands of a few people. But we have to contrast this to how healthy and uplifting it is to both the individual and to society in the overwhelming number of cases.

    Yes, I agree with your next statement about mellowing. Both Christianity and Judaism have gone through Reformations (including Vatican 2). Islam has not yet had that chance.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Ugh... people do bad stuff to people, and they justify it with what they have at hand.
    I think this is mostly due to the fact that bad people bring their bad character with them when they enter a religion, rather than a religion creates bad character in those who were essentially once good people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    Yeah...this is true, to a degree. Perhaps religious extremists would have killed people for some other reason.

    But, I truly believe that some of these people WOULDN'T commit violent acts, if it weren't for religion.
    As Jonathan Swift once proposed, if we weren't killing people for their religions, nationality, or ethnicity, we'd be killing them for which end of the egg they cracked open.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Itís true that many Christians blame all Jews for killing Jesus (discounting the fact that Jesus was a Jew). All this ďpro IsraelĒ crap from the right isnít because they care about Jews; itís only because the Bible tells them to protect Jews in Israel (where Jesus was born) so Jesus will come back.
    This does them a disservice. While it is true, it is also true that they love Israel for its own sake, that they see Israel as God's chosen, that God will bless those who bless us. And they do bless us. This alternative of white supremacy is a throwback. It is an interpretation of some of the verses in their Christian scriptures that normative Christianity interprets quite differently these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    I do not believe that religion should govern our lives
    If our religion doesn't govern our lives, it's pretty impotent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If our religion doesn't govern our lives, it's pretty impotent.
    As it should be, alongside any other dogma that dictates absolutely how you should think and feel about shit.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    You’re free to worship safely and whatever religion you choose. What shouldn’t happen, for example, is the bitching and moaning fake Christians in the US do about “the war on Christmas,” abortion rights (recently spouting false info about post delivery abortions), and the “We’re so oppressed because you won’t do it how we like.” attitude which is exactly how this thread began and then he pivoted to actual violence, which obviously, I am against—see my various posts on white terrorism in the last few years. It isn’t persecution to tell these people whining about their (OFTEN TWISTED AND CHERRY PICKED) Christian beliefs to stop. Bake the fucking cake. Sign the fucking marriage license. Go tell mother I said to shut the fuck up, Pence. Trump is not a Christian. Can you see the difference between these falsehoods and something absolutely legit like the Holocaust?

    I can’t believe I even have to spell this all out but here we are.
    I certainly don't approve of every issue Christians raise. However it is their God given right to practice their religion, and THAT means living out their religion in their daily lives. This means that their religion effects their views on cultural traditions and governmental policies.

    Get a thicker skin. If I can put up with it, so can you. It's called tolerance of people with different views, all part and parcel of being part of a modern democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    I'm curious as to what @Jaguar 's agenda is here with these posts. The far right obsession with Clinton and Obama gave it away.

    Who are you working for?

    It's such an underhanded tactic, I would respect these right wingers alot more if they were just honest and said "yes, I'm a xenophobe, racist, and I hate liberals.". But to try to spin it around the way they do, by dividing people, is just down right low.
    Actually I'm a centrist. When it comes to morality, I'm very traditional like the right wing. But when it comes to social policies like the poor or the environment, I'm definitely left wing. On most issues, like national defense or economic policy, I'm right in the middle.

    As a Jew, I've experience discrimination first hand. I've lived down the street from shootings and attended a synagogue that had been rebuilt after a fire started by a molotov cocktail. I've personally been accosted in the street, and I've been called every vile name in the book.

    Because of those experiences, I'm very sensitive to others being discriminated against: different races, women, LGBT, different religions, immigrants, different nationalities, etc. When one of us is discriminated against, all of us are.
    Last edited by Jaguar; 05-07-2019 at 05:40 PM.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    As it should be, alongside any other dogma that dictates absolutely how you should think and feel about shit.
    Now we are getting into the weeds of judgment about religion, and wtf I wish this is where we could at least be tolerant.

    No religion guides “absolutely” how you feel about things all day everyday. It guides your spirituality, your sense of purpose, your need to help your neighbors and family and the poor, to be a good citizen, to be a good person, to follow a good path, to be a steward of the environment, to be a voice for those without one, etc.

    For the Atheists (non-organized only because they can’t get tax write-offs but still preaching all the same) to come into a thread about religious intolerance leading to so many DEATHS and then exhibit more religious intolerance is Trolling.

    I’ve been a proponent of civil rights nearly my entire life. And one of those things I hold deeply is fairness and tolerance.

    This is where Christians AND Atheists go terribly wrong.

    I’ll tell you one thing: THE biggest group of civil rights activists in the world are Jews. They are committed to tolerance and civi rights not only by their religion but by their history.

    For example, who’s helping asylum seekers at our southern border, risking their own safety?

    HIAS.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 05:51 PM.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    A right wing Christian Jew who attends Synagogue? Is this from an 8chan word generator?
    A Christian Jew? Heaven forbid. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    A Christian Jew? Heaven forbid. LOL
    I can't even... begin to... what the...

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    I’ll tell you one thing: THE biggest group of civil rights activists in the world are Jews. They are committed to tolerance and civi rights not only by their religion but by their history.
    Absolutely, Cat. I don't know if you are Jewish, but you'd sure make a good one.

    Jews fought alongside blacks during the civil rights movement. The feminist movement was started by Jewish women. No one in the US has a more positive image of Muslims than Jews. Etc.

    For those who don't know, this all has to do with something called Tikkun Olam, the repair of the world. Although some forms of Judaism teach the world to come, we are largely unconcerned with it. What we are concerned with is the creation of heaven on Earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    As it should be, alongside any other dogma that dictates absolutely how you should think and feel about shit.
    You see, this is the attitude that runs contrary to the very notion of freedom of religion. It is out of sink with modern democracy.

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I certainly don't approve of every issue Christians raise. However it is their God given right to practice their religion, and THAT means living out their religion in their daily lives. This means that their religion effects their views on cultural traditions and governmental policies.

    Get a thicker skin. If I can put up with it, so can you. It's called tolerance of people with different views, all part and parcel of being part of a modern democracy.
    Take you own advice about the thicker skin. Get better arguments (that don’t involve backpedaling when your very first post reads like something Shitefart would pay you to write and you are justifiably lit up for it). I’m intolerant of stupid assholes that are ruining this country with their lies while they try to hide behind a cross. The kid gloves have been off since November 2016. It’s called having real values and knowing to rely more on science than any religion. Speaking of which, no religion should shape a country’s laws. I know the US isn’t the only place that repeatedly screws this up but we should really know better by now. I want progress and I’m sick of the people that want to Make America 1953 Again. I will not be nice to people killing the future. Fuck that cowardice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    A Christian Jew? Heaven forbid. LOL
    LOL LOL my former boss of many years, who grew up Orthodox but then became Reform, used to see “Jews for Jesus” on the streets of the Loop (Chicago) with their signs and it used to work him up to no end, like some kind of overload of cognitive dissonance LOL LOL !!!

    (For those wondering: Christianity in Judaism is a total oxymoron and is offensive to the Jewish community.)
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 06:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You see, this is the attitude that runs contrary to the very notion of freedom of religion. It is out of sink with modern democracy.
    You see, you don't know shit about me. My perspective is informed by every single thing I've ever experienced, every piece of philosophy I've consumed (and that includes every religion I've studied), everything I've thought long and hard about, and it's a constantly changing and evolving perspective.

    No one source tells me how to feel and think about everything. It's fine if that does it for you, but get off my fucking front doorstep with that shit before I grab the hose.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swykk View Post
    Take you own advice about the thicker skin. Get better arguments (that don’t involve backpedaling when your very first post reads like something Shitefart would pay you to write and you are justifiably lit up for it).
    Man, maybe it’s because I had to interpret law for so many years, but I just don’t see that. The part about Obama and Clinton stood out to you as Breitbart, immediately, even though he was posing a rhetorical question?

    We went into Iraq in 2003 basically because we needed to punish some towel-heads for 9-11 and it didn’t matter which ones.

    Black people get pulled over by cops for driving a new car because cops think they stole it.

    People in this country think Latinos are coming across the southern border to kill us, rape us, sell us drugs, take our jobs, and be on welfare. (Said Latinos are all Catholic.)

    The guy in the White House has cheated on all 3 of his wives, including while one was pregnant and then again after she had the baby, yet the “religious” right only wants tax cuts.

    Religion really has NOTHING to do with any of this shit.

    We are closer to legalized pot, gay marriage is legal, Roe ain’t going anywhere, but you know what IS happening?

    People are being shot and bombed or their churches are getting burned up because there’s negroes in them.

    If churches are controlling things, who is trying to get rid of them?

    In Louisiana, the son of a Sheriff’s deputy set fire to three black Baptist churches:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...d-hate-n995286
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 06:21 PM.

  27. #57
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    Yes, that first post is full of the victim playing whataboutism. Also, those are his words about religion shaping cultural traditions and government. Not mine. Doesn’t surprise me at all to hear that’s the goal, though. It always has been about social control. It’s exactly what Trumpence are using it for. It’s what W used it for.

    Anyway, I’m done. This isn’t productive, really. Some of you are going to think he is a decent guy. I don’t. Wouldn’t be shocked to find out after some time passes that he’s one of the banned folks returning to ETS to cause shit again. Maybe I’m wrong about that last part.
    Last edited by Swykk; 05-07-2019 at 06:36 PM.

  28. #58
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    Heh, I am a pretty decent detector of whataboutism and I don't see any of it in his post, it seems like he was inclusive of everybody and mentions that most wars aren't really about religion, they're really about property and money.

    Which is true.

    And I don't detect any "victim" shit at all. He just posed a question, for discussion, as to what's causing it, why.

    He's stating facts that are supported by the F.B.I.

    For 2017, the FBI reported:

    * A 23 percent increase in religion-based hate crimes. The 1,564 crimes reported in 2017 was the second highest number of religion-based crimes ever, surpassed only in 2001 in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

    * Attacks on Jews accounted for 60 percent of all religion-based hate crimes, the highest of any targeted religious group. There were 938 crimes against Jews in 2017, up from 684 in 2016.

    * An 18 percent increase in race-based crimes, accounting for 58 percent of all hate crimes last year. Crimes against African-Americans were the plurality of these and accounted for 28 percent of all reported hate crimes.

    * A 24 percent increase in hate crimes against Latinos. There were also significant increases in the number of hate crimes directed against Arab Americans (100 percent), Asian-Pacific Americans (20 percent), and Native Americans (63 percent).

    * A 5 percent rise in crimes directed against LGBT individuals, rising from 1,076 crimes in 2016 to 1,130 in 2017.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 05-07-2019 at 06:45 PM.

  29. #59
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    I'm sorry @Cat Mom, I don't think this thread OP is really concerned with the rising trend in statistics towards people facing persecution for their convictions in a way that we can actionably do anything about it.... though I'm more surprised at the rejection of the idea that we shouldn't subscribe to one holy doctrine as a guide book to run our lives.

    But whatever, I'm with @Swykk here and I don't see this conversation going anywhere great.

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    I'm sorry @Cat Mom, I don't think this thread OP is really concerned with the rising trend in statistics towards people facing persecution for their convictions in a way that we can actionably do anything about it.... though I'm more surprised at the rejection of the idea that we shouldn't subscribe to one holy doctrine as a guide book to run our lives.

    But whatever, I'm with @Swykk here and I don't see this conversation going anywhere great.
    I thought it WAS a pretty interesting discussion, I was really enjoying it until a few of you got all paranoid and combative and mean and started trolling the thread without ever really contributing anything meaningful to the content.

    I’m disgusted.

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