Happiness in Heresy

[fillow]

Yes. Looks much better now.

[fillow]

I think this may be of interest:



Also pinging @ninlive if he would like to screenshot some ticket stubs and other random info.

This was previously seeded on Bowie Station as shitty quality scans of b/w version of this book.

[TheBang]

I think this may be of interest:

Also pinging @ninlive if he would like to screenshot some ticket stubs and other random info.

Good stuff in here. FYI, there is a PDF of it linked in the YouTube description

[TheBang]

So, I've updated the tour date listings with all the latest corrections on NIN Wiki, NIN Live, Setlist.fm, and Wikipedia. The only major places that still have a lot of the old, incorrect information are NIN Historian (will never be updated) and NIN Tour History (has ignored most of my submissions).

Here is what I see as the major remaining issues that need more information or clarification:

1990/01/28 Portland, OR Pine Street Theatre - Did NIN open? Probably not, but will we be able to find out for sure?
1990/04/04 Phantasy - Cleveland OH - Was there a 2nd date? I'm inclined to say know, but I can't figure out why NIN Historian would say there was.
1990/04/21 Manhattan College - New York, NY - Though we're fairly confident it happened, it would be nice to get newspaper confirmation for this. May only be possible by visiting the Manhattan College library for physical archives of the student newspaper.
1990/07/24 Bermudas - Milwaukee, WI - Was this a NIN/MBM show or just a MBM side show? This should be eminently knowable as soon as we get access to the newspapers.
1994/03/27 After Dark, Honolulu, HI - Did the 2nd show really happen? No solicitations. I know someone who worked security for this show. We talked about it when he saw me wearing a NIN shirt. I just need to look up his contact info and ask him if he remembers if there were 2 shows.
1995/11/11 St. Petersburg, FL Jannus Landing - Did this happen as scheduled?
1995/11/27 Corpus Christi, TX Cantina Santa Fe - I think this date is very fake, but how to confirm?

1988 dates - I don't know if we'll ever know everything about these dates.
1989 dates - I don't know if we'll ever know everything about these dates.

[CAMEO172]

1) 1990/01/28 : the only chance is having a review on newspaper.. probably impossible. But i'm also nearly sure this is a wrong date
2) 1990/04/04 : don't even list it as I don't have any info.. may add this date as unsure
3) 1990/04/21 : maybe one day the studen newspaper will be online
4) 1990/07/24 : no idea about his date
5) 1994/03/27 : Honolulu Star Bulletin in 2007 seems clear about two dates. i do remember a long article i can't find anymore and talking about two dates. for me this is nearly sure.
6) 1995/11/11 & 1995/11/27 : will probably add this date as unsure, just to keep the info. This is nearly impossible to find infos on newspapers. a ticket would be great

[piggy]

1995/11/11 St. Petersburg, FL Jannus Landing - Did this happen as scheduled?

We have no reason to think that it didn't. I just put that bit saying "(show went on as planned?)" simply for keeping track of what we know and don't know. I should probably take it off.

[FULLMETAL]

I remember being at work & calling everyone I knew in Orlando trying in vain to get a ticket to The Edge in '95. I was living in Tampa & would have likely heard about a local show in St.Pete before Orlando.

That said, I thought I did some research looking through the Tampa Tribune/Times... but that may have been for another topic. Alas, with the Covid-19 lockdown none of our physical library resources are available & I can't seem to find any freebie sites at the moment.

*edit* Here's the post: #5463 Sadly, there doesn't seem to be an archive for local versions of Creative Loafing.

[TheBang]

We have no reason to think that it didn't. I just put that bit saying "(show went on as planned?)" simply for keeping track of what we know and don't know. I should probably take it off.

Given everything that happened on that Florida leg, it’s probably better to get some kind of proof than assume that anything happened according to the original plan.

I remember being at work & calling everyone I knew in Orlando trying in vain to get a ticket to The Edge in '95. I was living in Tampa & would have likely heard about a local show in St.Pete before Orlando.

[...]

*edit* Here's the post: #5463 Sadly, there doesn't seem to be an archive for local versions of Creative Loafing.

^^^ Case in point, it seems there’s a very real possibility that it didn’t happen.

[piggy]

Good points, all.

[bobbie solo]

if this sounds naive or you've thought of it already, then I apologize. Any attempts to reach out to someone who was in the NIN orbit proper back then? Management, booking agent, label folk, etc? Some people here are plugged in directly to the NIN camp in some small ways. If there ever was a time that someone might be willing to give out some help on a such harmless topic, now would be it.

[fillow]

Every band should a member with a nerd level of Mike Portnoy from Dream Theater. The guy actually kept track of setlists for every show they ever played since 1988 or so, and posted all this data online when internet became a thing.

[TheBang]

if this sounds naive or you've thought of it already, then I apologize. Any attempts to reach out to someone who was in the NIN orbit proper back then? Management, booking agent, label folk, etc? Some people here are plugged in directly to the NIN camp in some small ways. If there ever was a time that someone might be willing to give out some help on a such harmless topic, now would be it.

Wow, you actually got me to remember Souix Zimmerman (SouixZ). She's done PR for NIN forever. She started in PR at TVT, and Trent in his tweets mentioned she was the one who booked them on Dance Party USA in 1989. After that she founded Formula PR and then Magnum PR, and to this day, I think she's still doing PR for NIN at UG Strategies after they acquired Magnum PR. I have some weak second order connections to her on Facebook, but nothing that I'm comfortable exploiting. Does anyone have any direct links or relationship to her?

[CAMEO172]

I'm in touch for some (maybe) infos about the sonic NY.

Last infos for a first chat :

"Sure, SONIC or SONIC's was a short-lived club on the western end of West 21st street in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan. I was interning at SPIN at the time, and had latched onto a promo CD of PRETTY HATE MACHINE early before its release. So, when I heard they were playing, I was game to check them out. The club, at the time, was fairly cheesy The walls and interior decor were printed to look like the surface of the moon, for some inexplicable reason. NIN put on a typically great show. Shortly afterwards, Sonic changed hands and the venue became a much cooler venture called The Marquee, where it lasted for about two or three years. After that, it became Latino dance club, then a theatre, then an art gallery. Then it was torn down, and condo was built over its footprint."

[CAMEO172]

I'm (quite slowly) working on support acts of NIN shows (including festival for fun).

A few first remarks :

- I can't find any echo of Chemlab in 1990/1991. Each time there is a link between NIN and Chemlab, NIN_historian is in the middle.. but can we trust him for this very particular infos. I have reviews of some of these shows, a quite good proof when the support acts is written

- Club Nu July 03 1990 seems to be the very first Marilyn Manson support act with NIN. It even seems a demo tape was given to trent (according to the MM wiki). At this time, I don't know if MBM was a second support act. MM seems to play after 10 pm and that's probably why NIN played after midnight after a little late debut of MM and stage switch. This is another reason proving July 04 Club Nu didn't exist.
It proove great work made by The Bang about 1990 dates. I will check again according to support acts. Doing this (on free support) I have found a probably cancelled date on march 16. the switch between JAMC and Peter murphy leg isn't so clear as NIN is indicated for both of them for the march 16 show (but the Peter murphy seems older ad and JAMC after) !

- a lot of mistakes in setlist.fm. NINJA tour always add The dillinger escape plan as support act. It seems to be Street Sweeper Social Club
This is really strange having such mistake for not so old gigs.. Or I miss something..

- I'm still wonder which band had shared the more shows with NIN. This is probably The Jesus and Mary Chain. i still don't have the count as 2018 isn't clear for me but there are more than 60 dates for sure ! But Marilyn Manson isn't too far (more or less 65 dates) and The Jim Rose Circus too (probably around 70).

- where have you found support act for European 1994 dates / japan dates ? really not easy to find.

[TheBang]

Here's a post about someone seeing Chemlab open for NIN at Stardust Ballroom:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....A/kqvoh-ghNecJ

That would have been 1991-02-05 and 1991-02-06, the same general time period NIN Historian is saying they opened.

There are also references in the old NIN FAQ about Chemlab opening in 1991:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....A/kqvoh-ghNecJ

[TheBang]

Regarding setlist.fm, where does it say DEP as support on NINJA tour? I didn't see any dates that said that.

Regarding March 16, 1990, this site lists "The Last Laugh" as support act for Peter Murphy:
http://www.bauhausgigguide.info/gig.php?gid=863

Now, that site has a fair number of errors, so I wouldn't trust the information 100%. OTOH, however, if you look through the other surrounding dates on that site, most of them don't have support act information added to them. Which means, having "The Last Laugh" listed for Mar. 16 must have had some supporting information basis for adding it, and not just a willy-nilly careless mass editing of information or something like that.

[CAMEO172]

The_bang,

thanks a lot. Once again you are here !

You gave the same link twice. can you tell me where I can read the old NIN FAQ.

I can't agree for 1991-02-05 : this is "Fixed Image" on flyer and newspapers.
no info for 1991-02-05

since yesterday, if you list shows by legs, I added the bands sharing the stage (support act or headliner, no difference for me).

For the Sin tour : https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...tion/sin-tour/
Hate tour : https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...ion/hate-tour/

[CAMEO172]

March 16 1990 : this is 99% sure NIN was with JAMC. They were at boulder with JAMC a very few weeks before and March 16 is a date in Detroit. Definitly greater for NIN ! And newspapers infos is quite "old".. but I found funny that it wasn't really clear or they decided to change at the last time. According to me this is great info for NIN tour history.

I will search for Peter Murphy newspapers infos in 1990. I'm pretty sure I will find a definitive proof of the change of first act.

Setlist.fm : i fuck up ! my fault. I prefer ! I mixed my google search with 2014 setlist dates.

[TheBang]

Sorry, here’s the NIN FAQ:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....o/KUZwa4BL2j0J

i agree for Mar 16 that they were with JAMC. I think plans were being adjusted very last minute as to when they would join Peter Murphy on tour.

[TheBang]

CAMEO172, if you want an additional project, you can try to find all the Pigface dates that Trent (and Chris, apparently) performed at. I went through newspapers.com and added many early Pigface dates that were missing to setlist.fm (with citations in the comments)

There isn’t a lot of proof as to which dates they were at, but several newspaper articles said that an upcoming performance of Pigface included “members of ... Nine Inch Nails ...”. We know Trent was at the Metropol date because there’s video. We also know that by the Manray date he had left the tour, because there is a recording of that show and he is not on it.

Also, the newspaper articles stop touting Nine Inch Nails members at that time, so they could be accurate as to when Trent was appearing. Anyway, I think there could be 2-4 additional Pigface dates during that period that are still missing.

[TheBang]

Article for the Odeon:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....M/CC8ksfp5RmUJ
https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...ember-28-1994/

[CAMEO172]

Thanks for the link.
I can't find Plain dealer scan after 1991. That's why this article wasn't in the database. I will add it and maybe one day beeing able to have access of scan.
I have found this site http://nl.newsbank.com/sites/cpdb/ and I can at least list article dealing with NIN after 1991

probably need a CPL access at cleveland.. in fact I may need CPL access in nearly everytown in order to check a lot of newspapers

[CAMEO172]

I'm looking for any tour itinerary scans as venue and date information ! Wonder if anyone got some of them and are ready to scan them.

At this time I have put Lollapalooza 91 from Jane's Addiction Itinerary and also Fragilty 2000 US tour part 2 (from my personal item).

Thanks in advance dear community.

[CAMEO172]

Just added the NIN Outside Tour Itinerary ! Have to add some pages of the Bowie itinerary (nearly identical).

A LOT of newspapers to add in the next days and now nearly sure the Helter Shelter 1991 video is on the day before (February 5 not 6). Would love having access to the Hollywood Reporter archive for maybe an other proof, but already have a new one to put online.

[CAMEO172]

here is nearly all I can say about February 06 1991 show (after midnight) : https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...february-1991/
There are a partial video of this night from Hard Copy team (if Trent is true in the interview from Mondo 2000)

The know great record isn't from this night for sure, but this is the day before (also after midnight).

Don't know if anyone mind of this search I did

[TheBang]

here is nearly all I can say about February 06 1991 show (after midnight) : https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...february-1991/
There are a partial video of this night from Hard Copy team (if Trent is true in the interview from Mondo 2000)

Wow, great detective work, finding the Mondo article, and then connecting the few sentences in there to the Hard Copy video containing video from the 2nd night.

I compared the Hard Copy video to the World Rockumentary video, and almost certainly they are of two different nights. You can compare the brief snippet of Sin which is pretty visible in both videos:

"Within, take in
The extent of my sin

You give me the anger..."

And although Trent's head is moving in the same direction in both, you can see in the World Rockumentary video that one hand briefly comes off of the mic each time he turns his head left or right, and in the Hard Copy video, both hands appear to remain on the mic the entire time. Also, when he backs up as the chorus ends and the 2nd verse starts, in the Hard Copy video, he jerks the mic back hard, and in the World Rockumentary video, it's more of a smooth motion bringing the mic back with him. Also, in the Hard Copy video, it looks like several people in the crowd in front of him are crowd surfing or sitting on shoulders. In the World Rockumentary video, it looks like everyone in the crowd is firmly on the ground.

Also, considering the fact that World Rockumentary's soundcheck footage appears to be in the midst of load-in (which would not be happening on the 2nd day), and that presumably they filmed that same night, it seems a completely reasonable conclusion that World Rockumentary is from Night 1 and Hard Copy is from Night 2.

[CAMEO172]

You compare both video quicker than me ! I wanted to do this today.

The other main reason Rockumentary is from the first night is that there are no nude women. It's seems to be during at least "Get Down, Make Love" according to an article even if I need the Hollywood reporter article for maybe more details. Since a long time I have a trouble about this World Rockumentary video but Mondo article is the perfect proof I was missing (and hard copy video too).

In the mondo Interview, Trent spoke of a moment in the first night where he stopped the gig and yelled on Security guys. I can't be sure but I think this is during The Only Time when I can understand something like "this is a fucking show, fuck you" near the end of the song and maybe also at the beginning of Get Down, Make Love but I do not understand.

I would love seeing these security guy trouble : audience seems against the stage so where are they ?

Trent deals with a third show in the mondo article where he had this idea of syrup. For me this is not during the Jane's Addiction support on February 04 but at Tijuana on february 03. The review is clear on the fact this gig begun really late (the 7-11 waiting is good) but this review doesn't deal with the syrup moment.. a pity..

[CAMEO172]

Holly fuck !!
Just find another fabulous 1990 interview !

need to analyse it, it may remove 2 shows according to Trent own words ! Will be online tomorrow, with a rare 1990 review from an obscure fanzine

[TheBang]

Trent deals with a third show in the mondo article where he had this idea of syrup. For me this is not during the Jane's Addiction support on February 04 but at Tijuana on february 03. The review is clear on the fact this gig begun really late (the 7-11 waiting is good) but this review doesn't deal with the syrup moment.. a pity..

Actually, I think the syrup incident probably is the Jane’s show. First of all, 7-11 was called Super 7 in Mexico until 1995:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven#Mexico

Secondly, Richard said his brother, Robert, was going to be at the show. In fact, at the point in time, he would’ve been near the end of principal photography for Terminator 2, which was filming in the LA area. He would not have traveled to Tijuana to see a show.

[CAMEO172]

7-11 was in my mind a 7 hours / 11 hours waiting.. Didn't understand it was a store. So ok, it can be the night before Helter Skelter, during Jane's show. Moreover, Tijuana reporter didn't deal with this particular moment (i would probably if it happened).

I will probably added Mondo interview as echo (to confirm) of the jane's support show.

I don't understand the relationship between Robert Patrick and the syrup.