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Thread: Happiness in Heresy

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Happiness in Heresy

    Hi,

    I decide today to present you this new site. it's under HUGE construction and I do think the first real complete version will be in at least 4 months. This is for the moment a one month work, about 5hour a day.
    So this is probably too soon but I want some feedbacks and why not some help

    This is a site only about NIN live, including poster/ticket/photos/setlist/records/press article. I did the same site, 20 years ago, about the Cure and I want this kind of site for NIN.

    of course, you can think everything is already online here and there. It's nearly true. But I make it in a different way and with some datas never seen online. You can also think I'm an awful thief of other one work. My online original NIN source for scan is nin-historian and gladgarrot and a very few times RITC. I gonna thanks each time scan is coming from them.

    All records information is coming from RITC. I contacted Rjan a few months ago about. having all datas in database let me show the informations i want, like all soundboard records, all records from a particular taper and probably soon a list of the "perfect" records, between 4.5 and 5 stars !
    I gonna give him new information as I have discover some european taper from my old cure taper area. I know a paris 94 D7 master for example. i won't be able to have a copy but I'm sure he recorded it.

    From 1988 to 1995, ALL dates are nearly sure. I don't make a copy of copy of copy of an original list. I check with all informations available here and there and once it's sure (or at least have some information), it's online.
    All setlist is sure from a record, audio or video. I don't want to copy a "probably right" setlist. I saw so many mistakes of setlist with encores and press article explain there wasn't ! I prefer nothing that something maybe wrong. Having setlist of a cancel show is also the kind of thing I don't want.

    This way I have found a LOT of mistakes or wrong informations. And I'm still looking for new datas, new press scans ! For example, at this time, I can't access to Dallas newspaper and I can't have access to Hollywood reporter !
    The list of mistake is long, the press article helps to understand some reports, some cancellations and the real date of some shows !
    For example Omaha 1995-02-13 isn't a surprise show. This is just a report and a change of venue after the Lincoln cancellation !

    Press scans is also a perfect way to have rare informations like band injury on scene ! Quite funny. For example, we have an explanation why March of the Pigs wasn't played ot Warfield April 23 1994 : Chris received a micro stand from Trent and the band had to stop after Sin in order to put a bandage on his head !
    This way we can be sure the record is from the right date !

    Nowaday, I'm compiling all dates. I have to add 1999 to 2014 dates. I think this is a week by year. Newspaper will be only for review as the dates are all sure so I will have less work now. I will find poster, ticket, records after or when I'm tired of adding songs.
    I also have a lot of live pictures to add. I just want to add professional work.
    and after all is done, I will work on dialogs between songs or funny think visible on video.

    I also miss some old setlists for various reasons. I'm trying for example to find an other review of worchester Janary 05 1995 : the record is incomplet and even if review can help, nothing is clear about Dead Soul. The reviewer even speak about "Atrocity Exhibition" during encore, a song never played by NIN. I even wonder if the taper keep this song for himself. Hurt is clear, a review deals about : this is probably a tape flip and the taper remove the song. Something I can never have wasn't play if this is true there were 5 songs as encore : a pity the reviewer leave the event before the end, in order to have his paper for the next day morning.
    So you see, this is not really dump operation and I prefer losing my time that giving wrong informations.


    Here is the link of this site : https://happinessinheresy.com
    Please, don't forget everything is in strong construction. PHP files are changed nearly every day

    Comments are open for every date. I hope we can talk about.

    Fans sections isn't online. I want something easy and nice so each fan can add their dates and a few lines about this particular experience. At this time, I don't know how to make good php for this. On my old the cure site, it was too simple and not sure enough.

    Arnaud

    P.S : I'm french so don't blame me for my english !

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    Hi,

    I decide today to present you this new site. it's under HUGE construction and I do think the first real complete version will be in at least 4 months. This is for the moment a one month work, about 5hour a day.
    So this is probably too soon but I want some feedbacks and why not some help

    This is a site only about NIN live, including poster/ticket/photos/setlist/records/press article. I did the same site, 20 years ago, about the Cure and I want this kind of site for NIN.

    of course, you can think everything is already online here and there. It's nearly true. But I make it in a different way and with some datas never seen online. You can also think I'm an awful thief of other one work. My online original NIN source for scan is nin-historian and gladgarrot and a very few times RITC. I gonna thanks each time scan is coming from them.

    All records information is coming from RITC. I contacted Rjan a few months ago about. having all datas in database let me show the informations i want, like all soundboard records, all records from a particular taper and probably soon a list of the "perfect" records, between 4.5 and 5 stars !
    I gonna give him new information as I have discover some european taper from my old cure taper area. I know a paris 94 D7 master for example. i won't be able to have a copy but I'm sure he recorded it.

    From 1988 to 1995, ALL dates are nearly sure. I don't make a copy of copy of copy of an original list. I check with all informations available here and there and once it's sure (or at least have some information), it's online.
    All setlist is sure from a record, audio or video. I don't want to copy a "probably right" setlist. I saw so many mistakes of setlist with encores and press article explain there wasn't ! I prefer nothing that something maybe wrong. Having setlist of a cancel show is also the kind of thing I don't want.

    This way I have found a LOT of mistakes or wrong informations. And I'm still looking for new datas, new press scans ! For example, at this time, I can't access to Dallas newspaper and I can't have access to Hollywood reporter !
    The list of mistake is long, the press article helps to understand some reports, some cancellations and the real date of some shows !
    For example Omaha 1995-02-13 isn't a surprise show. This is just a report and a change of venue after the Lincoln cancellation !

    Press scans is also a perfect way to have rare informations like band injury on scene ! Quite funny. For example, we have an explanation why March of the Pigs wasn't played ot Warfield April 23 1994 : Chris received a micro stand from Trent and the band had to stop after Sin in order to put a bandage on his head !
    This way we can be sure the record is from the right date !

    Nowaday, I'm compiling all dates. I have to add 1999 to 2014 dates. I think this is a week by year. Newspaper will be only for review as the dates are all sure so I will have less work now. I will find poster, ticket, records after or when I'm tired of adding songs.
    I also have a lot of live pictures to add. I just want to add professional work.
    and after all is done, I will work on dialogs between songs or funny think visible on video.

    I also miss some old setlists for various reasons. I'm trying for example to find an other review of worchester Janary 05 1995 : the record is incomplet and even if review can help, nothing is clear about Dead Soul. The reviewer even speak about "Atrocity Exhibition" during encore, a song never played by NIN. I even wonder if the taper keep this song for himself. Hurt is clear, a review deals about : this is probably a tape flip and the taper remove the song. Something I can never have wasn't play if this is true there were 5 songs as encore : a pity the reviewer leave the event before the end, in order to have his paper for the next day morning.
    So you see, this is not really dump operation and I prefer losing my time that giving wrong informations.


    Here is the link of this site : https://happinessinheresy.com
    Please, don't forget everything is in strong construction. PHP files are changed nearly every day

    Comments are open for every date. I hope we can talk about.

    Fans sections isn't online. I want something easy and nice so each fan can add their dates and a few lines about this particular experience. At this time, I don't know how to make good php for this. On my old the cure site, it was too simple and not sure enough.

    Arnaud

    P.S : I'm french so don't blame me for my english !
    this looks good, I particularly like that you’ve put YouTube videos /clips you’ve found for shows like Meltdown in London that aren’t necessarily the full thing. Thank you

  3. #3
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    Wow. I'm just looking over the early stuff, and the amount of research you've put into this is amazing.

    The NIN Historian stuff, while a valuable source of information, had a lot of errors for the early years, simply because it was so hard to verify information back then. And a lot of those errors propagated into nintourhistory, setlist.fm, and NIN Wiki.

    I've seen some surprises, like the 9:30 Club date on April 15, 1990. I do want to mention for those 1990 dates though, those were not their first headline shows. The 1989 promotional tour for the album launch were their first headlining dates.

    Here is a review that you don't have: http://angrykev.tumblr.com/post/1217...-side-magazine
    There may be more here, tour posters, etc., but I haven't gone through the whole blog.

    Here's another one for Skinny Puppy: https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/42726917/


    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I also miss some old setlists for various reasons. I'm trying for example to find an other review of worchester Janary 05 1995 : the record is incomplet and even if review can help, nothing is clear about Dead Soul. The reviewer even speak about "Atrocity Exhibition" during encore, a song never played by NIN. I even wonder if the taper keep this song for himself. Hurt is clear, a review deals about : this is probably a tape flip and the taper remove the song. Something I can never have wasn't play if this is true there were 5 songs as encore : a pity the reviewer leave the event before the end, in order to have his paper for the next day morning.
    Oh, I can help you with that one. I was at that show. The setlist here is correct:

    http://www.nin.wiki/1995/01/05_Worcester,_MA

  4. #4
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    I suggest adding TR stage banter for every show with a recording later on. For early tours (PHM through TDS eras) gladcarrot already did a ton of transcriptions back in the day that can be used as a starting point.

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    This is pretty cool and really similar to something I built about 10 years ago that never really took off and became a nightmare to manage as well as another project I've been building the last couple of months. It'll be interesting to compare once I've got mine to a point it's ready to be launched.

    Great work!

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    Hi,
    Sorry for my silence : I didn't received emails warning (just one 3 days ago..)
    I was afraid everyone doesn't care this site !


    Thebang : I'm happy you love my work. You are one I used to read here and there !! and I know you love NIN history !

    Yes it was quite hard to check every newspapers! As now the part 88 -> 95 is nearly clear (for the newspapers I can access to) and as after 99 we don't really need it for anything else than review, the hard horrible work is behind me.



    Thanks a lot for the link for Skinny ! I will add these tomorrow, and check the blog for any other good info ! I found some skinny dates but can't confirm NIN was with them so I prefer adding nothing (i keep the press extracts on my computer)
    The same for Peter Murphy and Mary Chain : i'm sure of 2 or 3 others dates for them but the opener wasn't cited !


    for 1989 shows, as it seems to be mostly promo shows, can we say they really "headlined" ? for me it's really in 1990 that NIN begun to build their own public. but it's a detail

    For Worcester,_MA, it's funny cause I just found the right setlist after 5 hours reading on the old alt.nin newsgroups ! I also found some tapers names and some setlist confirmations !

    I still hope HIH can be a good site for NIN community and that some people will love trying to check some old dates with proofs

    for trent talks, after reading a newgroup post in the beginning of 1995, i discover atlanta January 24 1995 had a lof of fun on Closer !!!

    A question : Fragility v1.0 is named by fans not NIN ? I'm sure of Fragility v2.0 but I found nothing speaking about v1 name ?

    sorry if my message is messy.. It's too late (and I work in 4 hours ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by klyrish View Post
    This is pretty cool and really similar to something I built about 10 years ago that never really took off and became a nightmare to manage as well as another project I've been building the last couple of months. It'll be interesting to compare once I've got mine to a point it's ready to be launched.

    Great work!
    Hi klyrish,
    if possible, we can mix our efforts !

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    A question : Fragility v1.0 is named by fans not NIN ? I'm sure of Fragility v2.0 but I found nothing speaking about v1 name ?
    I want to remember the v1.0 tag was referenced on NIN.com as part of the tour location images. If that wasn’t the case, then the NIN produced MTV special would be the primary reference point for that tour name.


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    Yes, it was just "Fragility" in 1999, and then after the North American leg was announced they started calling the earlier dates "Fragility 1.0" on the website, I believe. The North American leg was always called "Fragility 2.0" in all press and promo material.

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    It seems like the TV special was the first reference point for the Fragility 1.0 name. It aired on Dec. 21, 1999, after the European dates, but before the Japan/Aus dates.

    You can see the "Fragility 1.0" name referenced in the Hotline news archives:
    http://www.theninhotline.net/news/archives/1999.12.html
    http://www.theninhotline.net/news/archives/2000.02.html

    Prior to the TV special, it was just called the Fragility tour.

    So, it was named somewhat retroactively, but it's definitely official.

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    Hmm, thanks for linking this one. "Trent was going to take a short break before the US tour to remix some songs off of Bowie's new album" goes the MTV headline. Not surprised that didn't come to fruition, but wouldn't a NIN remix of "Something in the Air" be super-groovy?

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    What about this name for the 1999 European Leg ?


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    Here's a great post from @ninlive confirming the Dec. 29, 1989 date in Cleveland:

    https://www.facebook.com/ninlivearch...e=3&permPage=1

    Now, given that it lists Dec. 29, and not Dec. 28, I'm a bit skeptical of the 2-night run listed on a lot of sites. Nothing in the newspaper clippings indicates 2 nights. The date of that newspaper is Dec. 28, so it would have been extremely last minute if they'd "added a 2nd show due to demand".

    This interview with NIN's tour manager lists the date as Dec. 28. But it may have been faulty memory from the manager or bad research from the writer. In any case, the manager's recollections make it sound like it was just one night, not 2 nights.

    The origination of 2 dates comes from NIN Historian, and are based only on recollections. On NIN Tour History, no one has indicated that they attended Dec. 28. One person has said they attended Dec. 29. On setlist.fm, there is one person (HorrorShow) who is a troll, marking that he has attended nearly every show ever, so he is discounted. So, there is one person who said they attended Dec. 29. And one person who says they attended Dec. 28. For that person, they have both Dec. 28, 1989, and Dec. 28, 1990 (Hate Tour) marked as attended, so perhaps they only attended one date but marked both out of confusion because they weren't sure what year it was. And maybe the Dec. 28, 1990 show is the source of the Dec. 28, 1989 (if we assume this date didn't happen) confusion, with a faulty recollection about the year leading to a NIN Historian entry for that date also.

    I'm mostly convinced that there was only one show on Dec. 29. The thing that would really solidify it for me would be a first-hand recollection about whether there was a set of two shows or just one.

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    Hi,
    This is now completely sure there is only one night on Dec 29 ! I just found 2 news newspaper clippings. One is clear that this is the FIRST date in cleveland. Nemesis is the opening band. it was a $7 concert.. a dream !
    Scans will be online in the afternoon.

    I'm pretty sure the Dec 28 date is the 1990-12-28 !!
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 08-26-2019 at 06:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    Scans will be online in the afternoon.
    Nice, thanks for the scans.

    Can you see if you can find anything for Luv-a-Fair club in Vancouver? I found several recollections, but not the exact date. One person said the week before PHM release, so that would have been about mid-Oct. 1989, I think:

    https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...I/eNGzGe5gQ8IJ
    http://www.vancouverneon.com/page_q/luv_a_fair.htm
    https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/nbr-not...-58657/?page=9

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    I just even found a REVIEW of this Fantasy 1989 show !!!!

    According to this review Nick Rushes is already behind the keyboards !
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 08-27-2019 at 02:22 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I just even found a REVIEW of this Fantasy 1989 show !!!!

    According to this review Nick Rushes is already behind the keyboards !
    Yeah, I mentioned in another thread, I think, that from an interview it sounds like Rusche was hired in Nov. 1989. And in another interview, it says that David Haymes was playing at the San Fran. Warfield show (JAMC support). So, basically, I think this Phantasy show was Rushe's last show, and Haymes did both the JAMC and Peter Murphy tours.

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    On this old site, I found a note that said "Manifesto" was the opening act for Peter Murphy on April 14, 1990, at Lisner Auditorium in Wash DC.

    Armed with that, I was amazingly able to find this George Wash Univ yearbook which confirms on page 86 that local band "Manifesto" opened for Peter Murphy on April 14.

    That all jibes with the fact that NIN had their own headlining show at 9:30 Club in Washington DC the next night on April 15. Looking at a map, Lisner Auditorium and 9:30 Club were only 1.3 miles apart, so it wouldn't have made sense that they were opening one night, and headlining just down the street the next night.

  19. #19
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    You've got a lot of articles for this one already, but here's another article from an arts newspaper called "The NicePaper" soliciting for JAMC and NIN at the Living Room in Providence, RI:

    http://www.ricdigitalcommons.com/AS220/items/show/3522

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    What is it with yearbooks today? Another confirmation of Peter Murphy performing at Rhode Island College with pictures on pages 28-29:

    https://issuu.com/digitalinitiatives/docs/1990yb_red

    But no indication of which building the concert took place in, which I've been trying to find. Edit: Looking at pages 24-25, Donovan Center looks like the likely venue for the concert.

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    Great job !!!!

    I will add all these clippings
    you have found some medias I never even try to dig ! that's great !

    At this time I try to access to Washington Post, New York Times and Hollywood reporter archives. Even with paid account, I just can't find anything way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    On this old site, I found a note that said "Manifesto" was the opening act for Peter Murphy on April 14, 1990, at Lisner Auditorium in Wash DC.

    Armed with that, I was amazingly able to find this George Wash Univ yearbook which confirms on page 86 that local band "Manifesto" opened for Peter Murphy on April 14.

    That all jibes with the fact that NIN had their own headlining show at 9:30 Club in Washington DC the next night on April 15. Looking at a map, Lisner Auditorium and 9:30 Club were only 1.3 miles apart, so it wouldn't have made sense that they were opening one night, and headlining just down the street the next night.
    if it's not in the list that must be because I have found the same info some month ago. I will add the date as wrong, and add all info I can dig. I must got some articles for sure.

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    Another wrong date cleared up:

    NIN Historian is the source for

    7/1/90 Power Station - Melbourne, FL
    7/2/90 The Asylum - Melbourne, FL

    But, it turns out that Power Station and The Asylum are the same venue. Power Station was the name from 1989-Sept. 1992, and it was The Asylum from Sep. 1992-1994. On NIN Historian, the source for The Asylum date is a personal account (asterisk symbol). So, at some point, someone must have told NIN Historian, I went to this concert, but gave him the wrong venue name of The Asylum. He didn't know they were the same venue, so he added it as a new date at a new venue. The newspaper solicit is for only one date, July 1 at Power Station, so July 2 must be spurious.

  24. #24
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    A couple proofs for a few dates you don't have listed yet:

    Handbill for 1991-01-04 Gothic - Denver. Note: Due to demand, there are 2 shows that night, 7:30 PM and 10:30 PM.
    http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=138

    1991-01-13 Reitz Union Rion Ballroom at University of Florida:
    Page 9 of "Applause" Gainesville's Entertaining Magazine:
    https://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00028290/05361/17x

    1991-01-25 Rock Academy
    Ticket Stub:
    http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=154
    Also, one of your articles on 1/24 is actually for 1/25. "The Record" promo from the 1/25 paper.

    1991-07-13 Vatican - Houston
    Images 18 and 19 and 23 confirm the date and venue:
    http://www.rivetheadmagazine.com/-32-jul-91.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Another wrong date cleared up:

    NIN Historian is the source for

    7/1/90 Power Station - Melbourne, FL
    7/2/90 The Asylum - Melbourne, FL

    But, it turns out that Power Station and The Asylum are the same venue. Power Station was the name from 1989-Sept. 1992, and it was The Asylum from Sep. 1992-1994. On NIN Historian, the source for The Asylum date is a personal account (asterisk symbol). So, at some point, someone must have told NIN Historian, I went to this concert, but gave him the wrong venue name of The Asylum. He didn't know they were the same venue, so he added it as a new date at a new venue. The newspaper solicit is for only one date, July 1 at Power Station, so July 2 must be spurious.
    I really try to find this Asylum confirmation and didn't understand why florida press NEVER talked about ! it's clearer. I will add the date as wrong and adding your information as proof. This way we will stop having the question.

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    It's a pleasure not beeing alone to find such "historical" informations. Really happy we are at least two !

    I will add all your information tonight (in 5 hours).

    I have done a complete list of live press articles. Easy to check and see :
    https://happinessinheresy.com/nin-live-press/

    As I work directly inside the database for adding press data, there is no warning of any press update (only if the live date is new inside the database).

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    A solicit for New Music Nights at Rock Academy, July 16, 1990:
    https://americanradiohistory.com/Arc...1990-07-21.pdf


    And another solicit for Rock Academy, and City Gardens a few days before:
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/145823663/

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    A solicit for New Music Nights at Rock Academy, July 16, 1990:
    https://americanradiohistory.com/Arc...1990-07-21.pdf


    And another solicit for Rock Academy, and City Gardens a few days before:
    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/145823663/

    both added, from two sites I have hugely scanned : you rule !

    I just added various little scans here and there . nothing phenomenal except some Australia 1994 gigs (even if I can't affirm they are all cancelled, still looking for this information).

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    nothing phenomenal except some Australia 1994 gigs (even if I can't affirm they are all cancelled, still looking for this information).
    Definitely all cancelled, with less than a week's notice. They gave the excuse that Vrenna was herniated:

    https://groups.google.com/d/topic/al...JII/discussion
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....0/a3OcRXrFKWoJ
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....M/_qSXDLZwS6cJ
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....s/YhsFaT-NPa4J

    But Trent revealed in an interview that the real reason was because he wanted more studio time:

    https://www.theninhotline.com/archiv...cle.php?id=600

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    Short review confirming Sunday, Nov. 12, 1995 for The Edge, Orlando:

    https://stars.library.ucf.edu/cgi/vi...lfloridafuture

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