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Thread: Happiness in Heresy

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    That also calls into question the Athens date, rather than confirming it. It’s in a market near to Atlanta so if ticket sales were poor, it may have been cancelled or never even solicited, if we can’t find anything in newspapers.
    The Red & Black (student newspaper at UGA in Athens) has a full archive available:

    https://gahistoricnewspapers.galileo...2/issues/1990/

    I haven't had time to search more than Feb. 21 and 22, but did not see mention of a JAMC show.

    I'm also working on getting access to Athens Banner-Herald archives, but it may only be possible after coronavirus is done.

  2. #62
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    If you're looking for info on the Athens music scene, Flagpole was the local rag of choice. Here's a link to the GA Theatre advert with JAMC & NIN:
    https://gahistoricnewspapers.galileo...1/ed-1/seq-31/

  3. #63
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    Nice one, thanks. With that promo from one day before the show, I think we can assume it happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FULLMETAL View Post
    If you're looking for info on the Athens music scene, Flagpole was the local rag of choice. Here's a link to the GA Theatre advert with JAMC & NIN:
    https://gahistoricnewspapers.galileo...1/ed-1/seq-31/
    great help ! new scan added, tne date is now nearly sure !
    This georgia digital library is new for me.; i'm digging inside !

  5. #65
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    @CAMEO172 I want to thank you for your dedication & meticulous research on your webpage. I started my tour history on the old NIN.com forums & migrated over to NINtourhistory when it launched, but just don't have the energy & patience at the moment to do it again for another page. Please know your work is appreciated. I'm sure once a new touring cycle happens, things will pick up for fans looking for authenticated research & not the bullshit that gets posted on setlist.fm.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I found it a month ago after a new complete check of newspapers. I do one every 6 months. I did check again Miami newspaper around the date but can't find a second article just to confirm this date never seen anywhere. I even checked again orlando newspapers if they spoke of a NIN date before Lollapalooza.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    I think this date probably didnít happen. This was at the height of NINís breakout period, so if there had been a side show it would have been better remembered and covered. One thing to do is to check newspapers for solicitations for other concerts that happened at Cameo around that time and confirm that NIN is not listed.
    Yeah, I don't think it happened. The Herald still had plenty of listings for shows at the Cameo around that date, but nothing for the NIN show? I don't think so.

    https://www.newspapers.com/image/635657837/?terms=cameo
    https://www.newspapers.com/image/635619381/?terms=cameo

  7. #67
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    I don't have access to Newspapers.com for the moment. I stopped it a few weeks ago and plan to take it again near the end of the year for a new scan of articles. I's quite expensive, I prefer stopping a few months and waiting for new newpapers online.

    I gonna put the date as "not sure" with nearly cancelled indications.

    Toronto area had been cleaned with a lof of articles from Toronto Stars and Globe and Mail, very big thanks to @botley.
    i will scan a last time the two newspapers tonight but I don't miss a lot if I missed :
    https://happinessinheresy.com/live/n...tario/toronto/
    Some nice reviews from 1991/1994/2005 !
    Peter Murphy date in April 90 is now clear even if no echo of NIN.

    I just can't find anything about the Jesus and mary Chain show in March 1990. It's nearly clear NIN did't played but I don't know why. According to my old memory, maybe an article in newspapers.com that I didn't keep. can't be sure.
    I can't also find anything about the Toronto Palladium date.. not even a promo. This is a date from Itinary ?





    Now, I will need a proquest access from Washington, in order to check "Washington Post". Anyone there ?
    I also wonder how having access to "Hollywood Reporter" archive. There are articles at least about Helter Skelter 91 and probably a review ! (nude women on stage according to echo dealing with an Hollywood article.

    I also seek for a "Tulsa World" access. It seems having a review for Peter Murphy and even maybe NIN show.
    I also need magazine scans... don"t have a lot and nearly impossible to have some.
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 04-20-2020 at 04:13 AM.

  8. #68
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    Going through the rest of the unsure stuff and trying to add information.

    October 22, 1989 9:30 Club, Wash DC:
    A recollection from NIN's tour manager of opening for MBM at 9:30 Club:
    https://www.clevescene.com/cleveland...nt?oid=1492360

    Listing on MBM fan site (from the 90's) of the 9:30 show, including NIN opening:
    http://www.digitalchemist.com/mbm/history/1989.shtml

    December 08, 1989, Sonic, NYC:
    This guy has vivid memories of seeing NIN at Sonic:
    https://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc...n_sincecl.html
    https://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc...ies-redux.html

    NIN Historian says he got the date and venue from a show handbill. I have not had success locating that handbill yet.

    Here is information about Sonic club opening in Sept. 1989:
    https://www.newspapers.com/image/467000536/

    July 24 1990, Bermudas, Milwaukee, WI:
    I think you should add this as a Not Sure. I think I ran across someone mentioning seeing them at Bermudas once, but can't find it now.

    Other stuff I found:
    Newspaper clipping for July 11, 1990 9:30 show:
    https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/great-venues.115/

  9. #69
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    Thanks a lot. I will update tonight with theses informations.

  10. #70
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    it would be great if we can have access to Manhathan College archive for April 21 1990..

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I just can't find anything about the Jesus and mary Chain show in March 1990. It's nearly clear NIN did't played but I don't know why.
    Probably visas or passports or something like that. They didn't go to Montreal either, yet they still played the US shows on the other side, so it seems clear that it's just some technicality why they didn't follow to Canada.[/quote]

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I can't also find anything about the Toronto Palladium date.. not even a promo. This is a date from Itinary ?
    Looks like it was a strongly rumored date which was probably in the works:
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....I/ffOhUwDdxtoJ

    But for whatever reason it looks like it fell through, before even being solicited and tickets sold though. So, frankly, I wouldn't even count it as a real date since it never got that far. Throughout the Self-destruct/fdts tour, they were scheduling gigs just weeks before the performance dates sometimes, so it's not a surprise that it would have been scheduled so late.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    Now, I will need a proquest access from Washington, in order to check "Washington Post". Anyone there ? I also wonder how having access to "Hollywood Reporter" archive. There are articles at least about Helter Skelter 91 and probably a review ! (nude women on stage according to echo dealing with an Hollywood article.
    ProQuest has an Entertainment Industry Magazine Archive 3 which contains a full archive of Hollywood Reporter. You just need to find an institution that has access to the product, like the University of Chicago. I think Factiva may also have an archive of Hollywood Reporter, for example, available through UCLA

    We need to get access to Galileo. It has access to EIMA and Washington Post through ProQuest. @ninlive can help with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I also seek for a "Tulsa World" access. It seems having a review for Peter Murphy and even maybe NIN show.
    Newsbank has a product called "America's Newspapers" that includes Tulsa World from 1/1/1989-present. Just need to find an institution that has access to that. One such institution is the Tulsa public library: https://tccl.bibliocommons.com/item/...e_tab=bib_info

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    it would be great if we can have access to Manhathan College archive for April 21 1990..
    So far, I've only been able to find a physical archive of The Quadrangle, the student newspaper:
    https://archivesspace.manhattan.edu/..._objects/14647
    That would require someone to actually go to the Manhattan College library.

    There's also the Riverdale Press, a local weekly paper. Haven't been able to find a 1990 archive for them though.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Here is information about Sonic club opening in Sept. 1989:
    https://www.newspapers.com/image/467000536/
    Clipped this for you:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49132959/daily-news/

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    July 24 1990, Bermudas, Milwaukee, WI:
    I think you should add this as a Not Sure. I think I ran across someone mentioning seeing them at Bermudas once, but can't find it now.
    Looks like NewsBank's America's Newspapers also contains access to Milwaukee Sentinel Journal archives.

    Here's info about Bermudas grand opening in 1989:
    https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digi...23742/download

    Might be worthwhile searching through UWM Post's archives too. Edit: Ahh, I already suggested that last year. I assume it didn't net anything for the Bermudas date, since that was in the middle of summer when the school is out.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Going through the rest of the unsure stuff and trying to add information.

    December 08, 1989, Sonic, NYC:
    This guy has vivid memories of seeing NIN at Sonic:
    https://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc...n_sincecl.html
    https://vassifer.blogs.com/alexinnyc...ies-redux.html
    The second link seems to say the gig was at The Marquee !

    Marquee at NY ! not London !!

    Marquee London ?
    I think of the strange New Music Express scan..
    can't be a mistake of the NME after having an info of a show at The marquee ? For NME (and mainly all europeans) only one Marquee exits and it's at London but this time this is Marquee NY. So this gig may be on February 28th 1991. The band isn't so famous ! This is a few weeks after the shows at LA.
    It can explain a few things, including no more promo for Marquee London (and UK market) once NME understood their mistake !

    stange idea ?

    Edit : this idea is probably wrong : NIN did 2 gigs a month before inside NY at The Academy.
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 04-20-2020 at 08:48 AM. Reason: double check

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    The second link seems to say the gig was at The Marquee !

    Marquee at NY ! not London !!

    Marquee London ?
    I think of the strange New Music Express scan..
    Whoa, slow down there. He’s saying that NIN was one of the last acts at that venue under the name Sonic. So it was only called Sonic for less than 6 months. Shortly after that, the venue changed its name to Marquee and hosted a bunch of memorable gigs before closing a few years later. No relation to the Marquee in London.

  15. #75
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    More stuff:

    Promos for Grog & Tankard, July 10, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4920...baltimore-sun/
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4920...baltimore-sun/

    Listing for Chestnut Cabaret July 12, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49206551/courier-post/
    But the Chestnut Cabaret gig didn't happen. More on that later.

    Promo for City Gardens, July 13, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49205899/daily-record/

    Promo for Pipeline July 18, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49205985/daily-record/

    Promo for Mar 3, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49206753/daily-news/

    Listing for Mar. 4, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4920...ry-park-press/

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    More stuff:

    Promos for Grog & Tankard, July 10, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4920...baltimore-sun/
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4920...baltimore-sun/

    Listing for Chestnut Cabaret July 12, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49206551/courier-post/
    But the Chestnut Cabaret gig didn't happen. More on that later.

    Promo for City Gardens, July 13, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49205899/daily-record/

    Promo for Pipeline July 18, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49205985/daily-record/

    Promo for Mar 3, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/49206753/daily-news/

    Listing for Mar. 4, 1990:
    https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4920...ry-park-press/
    All theses clippings had been added ! i's funny that because you clip the page, I have a full access to this page for free !

    Very big thanks ! I love working this way. it give me more juice for the rest.

    you search for terms "9 inch nails" If so it's a trick. The Asbury Park Press clipping for Neptune march 4 is a gem. NIN for 3$ !! A glass of water nowadays !

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    you search for terms "9 inch nails" If so it's a trick.
    Yup, a little bit of a hack there! But I actually found that particular one because i realized that Asbury Park Press put that night's Green Parrot show at the bottom of Page 1 of the paper every day.

    The Asbury Park Press clipping for Neptune march 4 is a gem. NIN for 3$ !! A glass of water nowadays !
    Actually, $3 is the Saturday dancerama DJ show.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    Hi dear NIN community,

    First at all, sorry for my english, i'm a poor froggy man.

    There is a long time since I posted here. I will try to sum up everything I can now.

    First at all, there is a HUGE work done on HIH (thanks to the bloody quarantine) : Now, the site is nearly done. I just have to add records from 2014 to 2018 ! This is a 2 or 3 days work, no more. All records from ninelive from 1988 to 2013 are in the site. I also found some new records (not a lot).

    So, you can have a global view of the way the site want to be. As you can see, there are a lot of way having a view of the huge NIN live activity. I think a lot of pages are more than useful for a lot of people and this is the first time you can see it. For example, the "particular shows" page is so great for a quickly view of exceptional shows, for various reasons.

    Nowadays, I just wonder if I'm alone or if we can merge some works all togethers. My door is open. Have a look, there is still plenty of works to do here or there. Just Trent speeches, this is enormous. And probably some tickets/poster/passes/setlist/press/photos still not here. And the fan part is empty and only depends on you. I'm looking for fan from Toronto for example as I would love having a Proquest access to toronto press archive ; from France this is impossible.

    I was quite disappointed of how you seem to not care of this site or just not want being part of it. This is why I was away and sad.

    So this is a last call. I would love that some people add their own work so we can have a global view of NIN live.

    I have nothing to earn : there is no advertising on the site, i'm not a trader/tapers or anything. I'm not even sure being a huge NIN fan. I don't even want to be close to the band or something like this (who care of a french guy). No, this is just a site for everyone by everyone and this is a pleasure for me and I want the community being proud of this.

    I can understand some people think I'm a thief or I use other's work. This is mainly false : you can't imagine how I searched everywhere outside of NIN sites ! I have found a lot of tickets/posters/press by myself but now i will need help for various parts. It's clear I have used some others work, just i order to have a better view and I go further their work.

    So please, it's time to tell me if i'm staying alone or if we can have a global NIN live site made by everyone !

    I don't care staying alone but I would be really sad to do all this work for just me.

    i'm waiting for your answers, your remarks, your opinion.
    After this post, I will know.
    Hey, I just signed up, very nice site! Just wanted to know, can I add shows I've been to without ranking/commenting on it? Thanks!

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Actually, $3 is the Saturday dancerama DJ show.
    I read too quickly ! at the first sight this is not clear, mosltly because of the bottom line.

    I add here that now all ninlive record are online : 1048 audio and 400 videos

    you can now have a quite nice page here : https://happinessinheresy.com/nin-all-live-audio/
    with all audio on each show. You have the same for video (pro or audience).

    I will also added indication about the most complet record for each show, just in order to know of we have at least one complet record or not.

    I have to scan all the records to add this indication depending on songs missing/cut or little record.. it need a few hours/days !
    In the record list for each show, you will then also see for each record how long it is. At this time, i only test this feature on the last LA show.

    For the fun (or not) you can also have the complet list (according to ninlive) of each taper.
    for example : https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...notorioustimp/

    I have to check but notorioustimp must be the number one !

  20. #80
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    OK, so now I understand why there are some weird errors on NIN Historian for the Hate tour. It turns out that he apparently used this Meat Beat Manifesto tour date listing (or whatever its predecessor may have been) to "fill in holes" in the NIN touring schedule. The problem is that at multiple points during the tour, MBM diverged from NIN to play their own headlining side shows, rejoining NIN as the opening act later in the tour, and it's not always clear in those MBM listings whether the date is as an opener or a headliner. And, of course, all those errors propagated to NIN Tour History, NIN Live, and Setlist.fm.

    So, in order to unfuck the 2 schedules, I basically had to go through the whole MBM schedule on that site, and try to corroborate each date. Either with newspaper solicitations already uncovered on HiH, or other newspapers I had to seek out to confirm MBM headlining shows. I filled out the whole 1990 North America touring schedule for MBM on setlist.fm, with newspaper citations in the notes for each confirmed show, so we can be sure the show took place and whether it was as an opener or headliner.

    So, we can see that the Meat Beat Manifesto schedule introduced the following errors into NIN Historian's listings:
    7/12 Green Parrot
    7/19 City Gardens
    7/19 Axis
    7/20 Foufounes
    7/25 1227

    And one that we're not yet sure of. We don't yet know if the Bermudas date was a MBM/NIN show or a MBM headliner:
    7/24 Bermudas

    Now, for the interesting stuff on July 12. We previously uncovered solicitations (as late as one month before the concert date) for a NIN show at Chestnut Cabaret on that date. However, that show never took place. I discovered that The Morning Call newspaper published full concert listings by venue every Thursday. Unfortunately, the June 28 paper ( and earlier weeks) only listed concerts at Chestnut Cabaret out through July 7. And, for some reason, the paper didn't publish concert listings the next week on July 5. Fortunately, they did publish concert listings in the July 12 paper, and we can see that 3 other bands booked and played Chestnut Cabaret that night, and NIN did not play. So, what happened? Well, the most likely answer is the July 14th show at Drexel University. The two venues are only half a mile apart, so Drexel probably took precedence over Chestnut Cabaret. Drexel was probably a late booking, and they either moved the Chestnut Cabaret show there for some reason (capacity?) or cancelled Chestnut Cabaret in lieu of the Drexel show (offered a better payday?).

    It was probably cancelled soon after that June 10th newspaper solicitation, because there was enough time to rebook those 3 bands at Chestnut Cabaret on July 12, and there was also time for MBM to book a side gig at Green Parrot on July 12. NIN Historian took that July 12 Green Parrot date as a NIN/MBM show, but fortunately, we have the Asbury Park Press publishing the night's acts at Green Parrot on Page 1 every day, and we can see that that concert was a MBM-only show. So what did NIN do on July 12? As far as I can tell, they took it as an off-day.

  21. #81
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    And so now I know all the major sources of errors in NIN Historian for all the early dates.

    For JAMC tour, he apparently took the dates off the tour t-shirt (or an early itinerary made around the same time as the t-shirt), so later changes, like the 2nd NYC show and the Philadelphia show, were not reflected in that.

    For the Peter Murphy tour, he apparently took a lot of dates from here. You can see how some of the incorrect dates line up exactly with what's listed on NIN Historian, and other things like the same dates missing venue names on both this and NIN Historian.

    And for the Hate tour, the aforementioned mashing together of NIN and MBM tour schedules.

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    What a great work TheBang ! We are a great team with the help of newspapers.com

    You now understand my work where I prefer having hole that wrong dates. it's difficult to remove, easier to add with proofs.

    I gonna change the July 12 to cancelled. The work you have done is awesome. It's a good idea to check the date wasn't cancelled this way !
    Do you mind searching inside Courrier Post or Philadelphia Daily this date on July 12 for 3 bands, just to add a few more proofs of the change.

    About Peter Murphy, I just add two news proofs to each show : the official T shirt Tour and a Press release for the tour. There is only one date (April 02) that is not on these two new proofs. The press release is probably a little more older as the 3 last dates had to be announced.
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 04-22-2020 at 10:29 AM.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    Do you mind searching inside Courrier Post or Philadelphia Daily this date on July 12 for 3 bands, just to add a few more proofs of the change.
    There are no listings for Chestnut Cabaret July 12 in those papers. Searching by the 3 band names show a number of other dates at other venues in the area for the bands, so they must all be local bands.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    About Peter Murphy, I just add two news proofs to each show : the official T shirt Tour and a Press release for the tour.
    Nice

  25. #85
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    Am I the only one who can't see the custom icons on this website? Tried different browsers from different PCs, still seeing the same:


  26. #86
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    I think they're just supposed to be colored boxes, not icons.

  27. #87
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    This is a particular font added by the website.. si this is letter tricks in fact no .jpg. Have you any error when loading a page ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    There are no listings for Chestnut Cabaret July 12 in those papers. Searching by the 3 band names show a number of other dates at other venues in the area for the bands, so they must all be local bands.


    Nice
    I remembered one time having found a strange promo : same date but different venue. I wonder if this is not this day.... once i get back newspaper.com i will scan press around june and july 1990

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    This is a particular font added by the website.. si this is letter tricks in fact no .jpg. Have you any error when loading a page ?
    Yes, actually. A whole lot of errors with fonts.

    Cross-Origin Request Blocked: The Same Origin Policy disallows reading the remote resource at https://file.concertsenboite.fr/wp-c...-webfont.woff2. (Reason: CORS header ĎAccess-Control-Allow-Originí missing).

    downloadable font: download failed (font-family: "FontAwesome" style:normal weight:400 stretch:100 src index:1): bad URI or cross-site access not allowed source: https://file.concertsenboite.fr/wp-c...-webfont.woff2
    ...repeated a few times for different font names

  30. #90
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    I understood the error and fixed it..normally.. tell me if this is ok from your side.

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