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Thread: Happiness in Heresy

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Short review confirming Sunday, Nov. 12, 1995 for The Edge, Orlando:

    https://stars.library.ucf.edu/cgi/vi...lfloridafuture
    Great scan ! Thanks my "partner".

    I added some 1994 reviews todays. Still have some to add later.

  2. #32
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    Thanks for all the info y'all!

  3. #33
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    Hi dear community,

    i'm more than proud to announce that a first (but not last) big step had been done on the website.

    I have added nearly all sure setlist of all years.
    I decided to trust setlist after 2000 even without records. I refused to add older setlist without a record or a valid proof.

    I have probably some date still missing but this is nearly ok.

    Having the database full, I can now have fun with datas.

    For example :
    https://happinessinheresy.com/comple...songs-by-year/
    complete list of songs played live. Click on a song and you will have shows details with lenght and maybe some comment about this song and this particular show

    I have the same for songs by regular albums :
    https://happinessinheresy.com/nin-albums-by-years/


    As nearly all the dates are in the database, you can also have, for example, the list of all shows in Ohio, all shows in Philadelphia, or even all shows in Madison square garden venue. In fact, you can have a list by country / state / city / venue. I'm also working on venue branding so you will still have the list even if the branding change

    You can also have all shows by all NIN members / guests.

    here are the next big steps (any help more than welcome) :

    1) adding newspaper clips. Already a little less than 900 clips but I have a LOT to add !
    2) adding ticket / poster : huge work
    3) adding records. At the end you will be able to list all IEM / audience / soundboard records, or NIN crew record or Ryan J. also able to list all 5 stars records. record at ounce ! I even wonder If I make DAT / MD / tape difference but it would be probably too much.
    4) adding comments about songs that have something to say
    5) adding Trent speeches : even a "thank you" is something to add !
    6) Adding the possibility to fans to adding their name and even a comment about this live experience
    7) and more and more
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 10-16-2019 at 06:37 AM.

  4. #34
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    awesome work.

    One tiny little thing regarding the dallas shows in 94 and 95: that venue is called Fair Park Coliseum, as opposed to State Fair Coliseum

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevenism View Post
    awesome work.

    One tiny little thing regarding the dallas shows in 94 and 95: that venue is called Fair Park Coliseum, as opposed to State Fair Coliseum
    thanks a lot for having find this mistake ! I have changed the name
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 01-10-2020 at 09:24 AM.

  6. #36
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    More than 1k press articles right now.
    It's now not easy for me to find new articles between 1989 and 1995..
    I still have a lot to add for more recent years. Probably a 1 month work

    A new page emerged :
    https://happinessinheresy.com/press-...by-newspapers/
    you can see by newspapers name, the article written about live concert dates. It's quite easier to check if an article is already inside or not if you know the newspapers and the release date

    And you still have :
    https://happinessinheresy.com/nin-live-press/
    which included all press article regarding to all dates



    I do hope having new scans from everyone

  7. #37
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    Great work. Love reading the review from my first concert, back in 1994. Apparently, the writer, was not a fan. LOL https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...ember-20-1994/

  8. #38
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    Here is a poster for JAMC on Jan. 27 and 28, 1990 in Seattle and Portland:

    https://concertposterart.com/product...concert-poster

    The image of the poster is not very big, so I asked the seller if it said NIN anywhere on it, and he confirmed that it did not. Not definitive proof one way or the other, but at least it doesn't show that NIN were solicited on the poster for those shows.

    Also, I found a newspaper mention of the April 5, 1990 concert at the end of an album review:

    https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digi...mpost/id/24886

    Also, if you search through the UWM Post archives, it looks like there are a lot of NIN articles, several of which probably pertain to concerts (I did not go through any of them):

    https://collections.lib.uwm.edu/digi...20inch%20nails

  9. #39
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    One month since the last update info here.

    A really lot of news. here we go.

    The structure of the site is now clear. For each show :

    0) venues/cities are probably ok. I also add venue picture when there is a NIN sign/date. festival name is also included. I'm also checking if the show is sold out or not (only according to press article for the moment). I have also manage leg's name of each part.
    1) Songs played if known including time lenghts. songs and time lenght is finished. After a huge work for songs comments and trent speech between songs
    2) Song stats for fun. this part is finished
    3) Line up including guests. this part is finished
    4) All show or tour posters including variants. this part is finished or nearly. need scans for new posters
    5) Show ticket. I have added some.. not my priority at this time
    6) Video records. I have prepared my php sheet for quick adding, just have to add them now. This is a 2/3 months work
    7) Audio records. I have prepared my php sheet for quick adding, just have to add them now. This is a 2/3 months work
    8) Goodies. mainly show or tour T-shirt. 10% done. This is a 2 weeks work I think. I add one or two goodies each day
    9) Press articles. A did a HUGE part from my major sources. More than 1500 articles including great reviews now in the database. every day I want to still add some articles. I still have some sources to check.
    10) Setlist papers and other kind of live papers. This is a 2 weeks work. I add one or two each day
    11) Live pictures of the show. I'm working on this now mainly with pro photo after 2005 or good picture before 2005. This is at least a 3 months work.
    12) Fans at the show. I don't prepare the code for this part. I need a strong registration part for security reason against spam. The idea here is having human interactions, not only a list of name. This is a 3 days development and I will probably need one or two beta test people.

    A lot of change in pages here and there. Still have a lot of esthetic work.
    You can have the shows list for each kind of element. I still have to add each list of show without element.

    One of my only question is decided if I add opening/headliner bands info. I will probably later, this is not my priority.

    I have also a little work about dates without infos : i have to adding them as unsure. There are probably 20/30 dates to add, mainly between 1989 and 1994. I will do this one night in a few weeks.
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 12-05-2019 at 05:07 AM.

  10. #40
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    Nice, I noticed some of the new sorting and search options when I was on the site last week. That's a lot of work!

    BTW, the source for this cancellation:

    https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...ugust-29-1991/

    is that the event promoter actually reached out to @ninlive to provide him some ticket stubs and also let him know that that one date was cancelled due to Trent's voice.

  11. #41
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    I hope it's appropriate to ask this question here, I wasn't sure where to put it. I'm trying to figure out something for the NIN wiki. On our Lollapalooza wiki page, it says at the top of the page that the tour started on July 3. There doesn't appear to be any mention of a July 3 Lollapalooza date anywhere on the internet except nintourhistory.com, where it mentions a July 3 date in Chicago at an unknown venue and it even has a setlist. Can anyone shed some light on this?
    Last edited by piggy; 12-21-2019 at 05:08 PM.

  12. #42
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    I have access to Chicago Tribune archive. Check on this page (https://happinessinheresy.com/press-...by-newspapers/) you will see they indicated nearly all NIN Chicago dates !

    I have check carefully in the beginning of July/end of June 1991 and can't find anything. It doesn't mean it didn't exist by the way.

    At this time I prefer adding no date (even unsure) and of course no setlist !
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 12-23-2019 at 08:55 AM.

  13. #43
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    I'm willing to bet there was a typo involved at some point in some source, because there's an August 3rd Lollapalooza date in Chicago that's definitely real.
    Last edited by fillow; 12-23-2019 at 01:57 AM.

  14. #44
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    Ah, didn't even notice the Chicago date in August. That might be what happened.

  15. #45
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    That's exactly what happened. A recording of the Aug. 3 date circulated for years with an erroneous July 3 date listed on it:

    https://gladcarrot.com/common_mislabels.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by piggy View Post
    I hope it's appropriate to ask this question here, I wasn't sure where to put it. I'm trying to figure out something for the NIN wiki. On our Lollapalooza wiki page, it says at the top of the page that the tour started on July 3. There doesn't appear to be any mention of a July 3 Lollapalooza date anywhere on the internet except nintourhistory.com, where it mentions a July 3 date in Chicago at an unknown venue and it even has a setlist. Can anyone shed some light on this?
    I've been updating nin.wiki with all the corrections that we've been researching and uncovering here. So, for dates 1995 and earlier, you should consider nin.wiki and happinessinheresy.com the most correct sources. I've submitted a lot of the changes to nintourhistory.com, but most have not been acted upon. As a result, it still contains a lot of the inaccuracies propagated from NIN Historian.

    I've also submitted most of the changes to setlist.fm, so that is reasonably accurate now, but there are a few things that I have not been able to get them to accept, so there is still some known bad data there.

    Regarding nin.wiki, while I have been correcting all the listings in the tables for each individual tour, I have not been making any corrections to text bodies (as you noticed), or to things like the Duration date ranges (for example, on http://www.nin.wiki/Tour), so if there have been dates added to or removed from the ends, those might not be accurate. I also have not made any corrections to individual tour date pages (if they exist), so if there were any corrections to dates, venue names, or cities made in the tables, that might not be reflected in the text body of corresponding article.

  16. #46
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    I try to have HIH as accurate as possible on venue/date/city/setlist ! I'm doing updates every day so if something is wrong, I act quickly !
    Never forget I don't really care of any other list and this list came from nothing. I can't add false informations because I only add informations with proofs.

    Huge first live photos update last week (from 50 pictures to more than 1700 now, mainly on official NIN pics) and I'm doing live T-shirt updates at this time, before adding more live pictures in 2020.

    According to live T-shirts, I also update tour leg names and cut them more accurately. 2005 tour seems nearly perfect this way for exemple (i just wonder for the 4th last December shows).

    I also found a few press articles : nothing great but some infos here or there I will add before new eve.

    I still have to add unsure but probably accurate dates (meaning dates here or there I can't find any little clue but that seems acceptable). There are some Australian 94 dates and probably something like twenty dates between 1989 and 1994. After 1995, it seems nearly perfect now on venue/date/city.
    Adding these dates are importante so you can focus on them for seeking clues.
    Last edited by CAMEO172; 12-23-2019 at 08:53 AM.

  17. #47
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    Ok, I fixed that thing on the NIN wiki Lollapalooza page. Thanks, folks.

  18. #48
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    Hi,

    Here is a new update post, probably one of the last :

    Since the last month :

    - 2 or 3 COMPLETLY new dates with proofs : quite proud of this as this is mainly pre 1991 dates ! You can't imagine how I'm seeking everywhere, sometime with just a little incomplet info ! (thanks to nin_historian it helps)
    - a lot of T-shirt / live photo / poster / ticket / setlist paper added. still have work for setlist and ticket, not poster. I still have to find some event 2018 t shirts
    - I still have to add audio/video for each show. It gonna be my priority in a few days
    - some press added, maybe 30 articles.. still have some work




    I need some people for debug/feedback actions :
    - the member area is now open : you can sign in and add your own review for your own NIN shows. Being a member is the only security way. It gonna build your own page with a sum up, stats and info ! I will need one or two feedbacks, just to be sure everything is working well and make it better for everyone if needed. This is the step before going further.

    Exemple :
    1) https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...-june-24-2018/ : you can see my own RAH review
    2) click on my name (https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...t/fans/arnaud/) and this my own page with infos

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    Hi,
    I need some people for debug/feedback actions :
    - the member area is now open : you can sign in and add your own review for your own NIN shows. Being a member is the only security way. It gonna build your own page with a sum up, stats and info ! I will need one or two feedbacks, just to be sure everything is working well and make it better for everyone if needed. This is the step before going further.

    Exemple :
    1) https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...-june-24-2018/ : you can see my own RAH review
    2) click on my name (https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...t/fans/arnaud/) and this my own page with infos

    No-one is interested in this feature ?
    I would love to know why !

  20. #50
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    Too fucked up to care anymore

    this is my last post !

  21. #51
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    What happened? Are you okay?

  22. #52
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    Hi dear NIN community,

    First at all, sorry for my english, i'm a poor froggy man.

    There is a long time since I posted here. I will try to sum up everything I can now.

    First at all, there is a HUGE work done on HIH (thanks to the bloody quarantine) : Now, the site is nearly done. I just have to add records from 2014 to 2018 ! This is a 2 or 3 days work, no more. All records from ninelive from 1988 to 2013 are in the site. I also found some new records (not a lot).

    So, you can have a global view of the way the site want to be. As you can see, there are a lot of way having a view of the huge NIN live activity. I think a lot of pages are more than useful for a lot of people and this is the first time you can see it. For example, the "particular shows" page is so great for a quickly view of exceptional shows, for various reasons.

    Nowadays, I just wonder if I'm alone or if we can merge some works all togethers. My door is open. Have a look, there is still plenty of works to do here or there. Just Trent speeches, this is enormous. And probably some tickets/poster/passes/setlist/press/photos still not here. And the fan part is empty and only depends on you. I'm looking for fan from Toronto for example as I would love having a Proquest access to toronto press archive ; from France this is impossible.

    I was quite disappointed of how you seem to not care of this site or just not want being part of it. This is why I was away and sad.

    So this is a last call. I would love that some people add their own work so we can have a global view of NIN live.

    I have nothing to earn : there is no advertising on the site, i'm not a trader/tapers or anything. I'm not even sure being a huge NIN fan. I don't even want to be close to the band or something like this (who care of a french guy). No, this is just a site for everyone by everyone and this is a pleasure for me and I want the community being proud of this.

    I can understand some people think I'm a thief or I use other's work. This is mainly false : you can't imagine how I searched everywhere outside of NIN sites ! I have found a lot of tickets/posters/press by myself but now i will need help for various parts. It's clear I have used some others work, just i order to have a better view and I go further their work.

    So please, it's time to tell me if i'm staying alone or if we can have a global NIN live site made by everyone !

    I don't care staying alone but I would be really sad to do all this work for just me.

    i'm waiting for your answers, your remarks, your opinion.
    After this post, I will know.

  23. #53
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    Hey, you know I like what you do. Sorry you haven't gotten more support. Your research has been invaluable in cleaning up and correcting early dates, which I'm very grateful for. I think you haven't gotten more community participation because NIN Tour History already cornered that market over a decade ago, and people don't know about your site or are not interested in signing up for yet another one. If your site had been first back then, you probably would have had much more participation.

    Anyway, I've got another contribution for you. I think that you're right that this show did not happen:

    https://happinessinheresy.com/nine-i...march-08-1990/

    As you probably noticed there are tons of solicitations for the Trocadero show on Mar. 5 from all the area newspapers, but zero newspaper mentions for a Keswick show, even in papers that normally list Keswick shows coming up. Besides that though, I just noticed that you have a graphic of the tour t-shirt here:

    https://happinessinheresy.com/wp-con...se-300x300.jpg

    Now, it's really small and hard to read, especially the numbers for the dates, but if you read what you can while reading along with the Jesus and Mary Chain known dates, you can match up the names of the cities exactly. The tour starts in January in the upper-left corner with two dates in Vancouver, BC. It goes down through Feb., and then Feb. continues on the right column. As you get about halfway down the right column, you can read in a row:

    Washington, DC
    New York, NY
    New York, NY
    Philadelphia, PA
    Providence, RI

    So that means it really did 4 days between show dates, and there does not appear to have been a date at Keswick Theatre. So, I'm going to consider that date not real.

    It also looks like there were 2 NY dates planned (Mar 3 and 4), at least at the beginning of the tour when the shirts were printed. But maybe they cancelled the 2nd date due to ticket sales? And that's why NIN scheduled a show at Green Parrot for Mar 4, maybe just a few days in advance?

    The t-shirt also helps with another date not confirmed on your site. If you look at the bottom left column of the t-shirt, you can make out:

    21 Atlanta, GA
    22 Athens, GA

    So that confirms the Athens date.

  24. #54
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  25. #55
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    Hi,

    I have found a few days ago a HUGE photo of the Jesus and Mary Chain automatic tour t-shirt (but in white, I will have to find the black one too). I'm just lazy to add this item as I'm focusing on the end of records. It's funny you speak about it.
    I have seen it confirm some probably dates and I have the same opinion about the second NY date : this is a cancelled date since nearly the beginning of the date, probably because of ticket sales

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    I found it a month ago after a new complete check of newspapers. I do one every 6 months. I did check again Miami newspaper around the date but can't find a second article just to confirm this date never seen anywhere. I even checked again orlando newspapers if they spoke of a NIN date before Lollapalooza.



    I'm actively need a Toronto Proquest access (free for any student of the city). I have found some article of very old NIN dates but I can't read them

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I have found a few days ago a HUGE photo of the Jesus and Mary Chain automatic tour t-shirt (but in white, I will have to find the black one too). I'm just lazy to add this item as I'm focusing on the end of records. It's funny you speak about it.
    ok, ok, I just found those shirts too (several on eBay), and this explains a lot. First of all, there are two versions of the dates on shirts. One version does not have the Orlando and Cleveland dates on it.

    But now that I can see the dates, I can see that Philadelphia was originally for Mar. 8. So, now I know where all these dates are coming from. If you look on NIN Historian you can see that he lists the JAMC dates with $ symbol which means official itinerary. It all matches up with the shirt dates, so he either took it from the t-shirt or an original itinerary created at the same time as the shirt. But that doesn’t reflect changes along the way.

    Keswick and Trocodaro are in the same market (Philadelphia), so it’s unlikely that both took place. We now know it was originally planned for the 8th which is why he has that marked as confirmed, and question marks for the Troc show on the 5th. But we know from the newspapers that the Troc show is EVERYWHERE, so that is the one that happened and whatever was originally planned for the 8th did not.

    And so we know that’s also why NIN historian has the Mar 4 NYC show listed. We know from the newspapers that that date was probably never even solicited or maybe it was cancelled long before the show date.

    That also calls into question the Athens date, rather than confirming it. It’s in a market near to Atlanta so if ticket sales were poor, it may have been cancelled or never even solicited, if we can’t find anything in newspapers.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I found it a month ago after a new complete check of newspapers. I do one every 6 months. I did check again Miami newspaper around the date but can't find a second article just to confirm this date never seen anywhere. I even checked again orlando newspapers if they spoke of a NIN date before Lollapalooza.
    I think this date probably didn’t happen. This was at the height of NIN’s breakout period, so if there had been a side show it would have been better remembered and covered. One thing to do is to check newspapers for solicitations for other concerts that happened at Cameo around that time and confirm that NIN is not listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAMEO172 View Post
    I'm actively need a Toronto Proquest access (free for any student of the city). I have found some article of very old NIN dates but I can't read them
    Yeah, I was just looking at that last night, and realizing that’s necessary to confirm a lot of stuff, especially those early Toronto dates. It doesn't need to be a student. We just need someone here who’s a Toronto resident and has or can get a library card. Should be easy enough.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
    Yeah, I was just looking at that last night, and realizing that’s necessary to confirm a lot of stuff, especially those early Toronto dates. It doesn't need to be a student. We just need someone here who’s a Toronto resident and has or can get a library card. Should be easy enough.
    Paging @botley

  29. #59
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    Yeah I can probably get on Proquest tomorrow (my mom is a retired TPL librarian). What periodical am I looking for?

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by botley View Post
    Yeah I can probably get on Proquest tomorrow (my mom is a retired TPL librarian). What periodical am I looking for?
    Hello Botley,

    If you can give me the access it would be easier for you.
    Theses articles seem to be mainly in : "global and mail" and "Toronto Star" but it would be probably great to seek in some others.
    This is at least a 6 hours works and I'm ready to do it.. you can't imagine how many hours I already did this is various newspapers.

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