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Faceplams: Chief Justice Roberts says we can't see those tax returns, at least for now.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...ords-67106729?
Throbbing Member
Chief Justice Roberts says we can't see those tax returns, at least for now.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...ords-67106729?
Active Member
A Decade In Oblivion
Ok so I apologize for my ignorance but could someone fill me in on what Trumps Tax shit means and why we all care about it? im being honest since i have no clue
Too Privileged to Get It
The long and short of it is to establish whether or not a president (in this case Trump) has been honest in their past business dealings and hasn't been lying to the government/IRS prior to assuming that position. In this specific instance though, it's the Democrats version of "where are Hillary's emails?" and it's beyond irrelevant at this point. More symbolic than anything. There are plenty of other things to go after Trump for. The tax return fight is a huge waste of time and legal resources.
Active Member
Absolutely. We all KNOW exactly what his returns will look like. If we were all to see them, the news would fake utter outrage and shock for a couple of days until it faded away into obscurity. I reeeeally wish people would just forget the fucking tax returns. It's so pointless now. As you said, there are way more important and definitive things to go after him with.Originally Posted by Demogorgon
Active Member
Disagree completely. Getting the tax returns and potentially connecting his business dealings with Russian oligarchs to his foreign policy with Russia is vitally important, and probably criminal.
Active Member
tempus est umbra in mente
IF that's all it is, why is he so resistant? BTW, that's completely bullshit... this is already broken precedent on the biggest level. If EVER there was a president where we'd wanna see his tax returns...
Too Privileged to Get It
I'm not gonna say there's nothing in there, i'm just saying that compared to everything else that's already been shown to have some kind of substance, the tax returns are absolutely small potatoes, and the obsession some people have with them could be better aimed at larger issues. They can call on the IRS after he's out of the chair and give him an audit like a regular citizen and it would be a lot easier without all that "oh i'm a sitting president you can't do shit" smoke being blown all over.
Bite me
That's pretty normal; the lower courts did the same thing pending the hearing. It's typical in a Motion for Summary Judgment (this is a Motion that basically means that there are enough facts presented for the court to provide a judgment based on the summary of all information it has in its possession, vs. a trial).
It's not JUST about Trump's tax returns.
It's also about his FINANCIAL STATEMENTS (which are probably more important than his tax returns, but you need both the tax returns and the financial statements for comparison). Financial statements provide WAY more information than tax returns (which mostly deal with EARNED income vs. passive income). But you need both to see if he’s being honest.
There are TWO cases pending. One is Federal and one is State.
One is Trump v. Mazars USA. In this case, Congress (the House) is seeking Trump's tax returns from Mazars (Trump's accountants). Most of this case stems from the testimony of Michael Cohen, Trump's prior attorney, who stated under oath that Trump had changed the estimated value of his assets and liabilities on financial statements (increased value in order to obtains loans, and decreased value in order to obtain depreciation losses and property tax benefits); also, the hush payments made to Stormy Daniels were not disclosed on Trump's financial statements to Congress.
The most recent appellate decision in this case is HERE
READ all of it (it's pretty easy reading); the beginning lays out all of the facts, case law (precedent), and particulars. Pay particular attention beginning on Page 21.
Trump's attorneys have already obtained a "Writ" (Writ of Certiorari) from SCOTUS (agreeing they'll hear the case) in this matter (and SCOTUS issued the stay pending said hearing).
The SECOND case is Donald Trump vs. Cyrus Vance (as D.A. of the County of New York) and Mazars USA. This is a STATE case. This case exists because Vance launched a criminal grand jury investigation into whether state laws were broken through hush-money payments to porn star Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election. Vance is seeking tax returns and financial statements from Mazars. Much of this is, again, based on Cohen testimony during and after Cohen's criminal proceedings.
The most recent appellate decision in this case is HERE.
Trump's assertion in this case is that a sitting President cannot be indicted; therefore, a sitting President also cannot be subject to a criminal investigation. The court opinion in this case is BEAUTIFUL (2nd link, above). Trump's attorneys have filed a Petition for Writ of Certiorari, appealing to the SCOTUS.
Last edited by allegro; 11-18-2019 at 10:25 PM.
Bite me
Oh, and while attempting to determine if any of this can or will amount to anything, we should look to Vice President Spiro Agnew:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...710_story.html
Bite me
This LLC is a foreign LLC in Illinois; it's a Delaware LLC. (Why Delaware? It's REALLY common, and for a good explanation see THIS.)
This LLC was established in 2005.
See: New York AG subpoenas Deutsche Bank for records related to 3 Trump properties, including Chicago's Trump Tower.
SCREEN.jpg
See THIS.
Since 2012, according to his financial disclosures, Trump has owed more than $50 million to a company called Chicago Unit Acquisition LLC. The disclosures indicate that the debt is related to the Trump hotel in Chicago but do not require him to reveal the exact amount.
Chicago Unit Acquisition isn’t a bank. It doesn’t have its own office. Instead, it is headquartered at Trump Tower in New York — and owned by Donald Trump.
So why would Trump owe himself more than $50 million?
The Trump Organization has declined to answer questions from The Post about the loan.
But in 2016, Trump told the Times that the loan began as a debt he owed to a group of lenders. Instead of paying it back, however, he bought the loan itself — and kept it on his own books, as a debt one part of his empire owed to the other.
“I have the mortgage. That is all there is. Very simple. I am the bank,” he told the Times.
He did not explain what loan he had purchased.
The Post checked both major loans that were outstanding on the Trump building in Chicago in 2012, but neither appeared to fit Trump’s description. There was a $640 million loan owed to Deutsche Bank’s commercial-lending side, but public documents show it was paid off and canceled, thanks to money Trump got from the bank’s private-wealth side.
And there was a $130 million loan Trump owed to another group of banks. Public documents show that it also ended in 2012. Two people involved in that deal said that Trump did not purchase that loan, either — he simply paid it off at a discount, paying $48 million instead of $130 million.
Last edited by allegro; 11-18-2019 at 09:04 PM.
Bite me
In all of my many years in corporate law, I’ve never seen so much (seemingly unnecessary) complicated shit as Trump’s LLC and Corp. entities.
See this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ts-visualized/
Totally nuts.
tempus est umbra in mente
re: Justice Roberts hold, "The move was expected and does not provide new information about how the justices may ultimately vote on the matter. It generally requires five votes to grant a stay, though in some cases one justice may do so pending review by the full court."
relax... it's cool
Active Member
Pretty damning testimony from Sondland today. They cut to a recess and Nunes looked like his soul was ripped out of him.
Active Member
This day...this day is just fucking wild.
Trollhunter
And of course Pence knew.
tempus est umbra in mente
Can I get a recap? I'm coming in late on this one, and I'm busy atm, but I NEED TO KNOW
Active Member
Active Member
So, either:
1) You're a lying sack of shit and you have to write that down (repeatedly) so you can remember what lie you're telling. If true, impeach.
2) You're not a lying sack of shit, but your brain is so deteriorated that you literally have to write - multiple times - that you didn't do something, and then finish it off with a reminder of what your job title is. If true, for the love of all that is holy, invoke the 25th and get his dementia-riddled ass out of the Oval Office.
Active Member
That hand written note is fucking hilarious. What a fucking toddler.
tempus est umbra in mente
just holy SHIT. It's like there's actually a god, and he's been listening to my prayers.
Behold the morning star
I will be shocked if anything comes out of this.
Active Member
lol I still would not remotely get your hopes up yet.
Active Member
Regardless of what they do and find now, it's still up to Mr. Turtle on the flip side.
tempus est umbra in mente
...and the voting public.
Active Member
it's all political theater. his name will have an astreik in the books down the line (well, not just for the impeachment, but you catch my drift)
next November is what matters most to get rid of him.
his damage is done, even if he loses next year (which I'm sadly still skeptical on) , it will take a generation (not a president term, an entire generation) to get the collective people of this country back on some sort of track (we were never all on the same page from day one.."let's be cool with the king of England!" "let's rebel F the king!" ) , so that's what I mean by some sort of track...less fucked up than we are now.
Active Member
I agree. If we are currently in the 4th Turn, it's not going to change until the next Gen comes around and brings us back to the start of a new cycle.
Active Member
Active Member
Next they're going to argue that the emails came in AFTER the call on that date, meaning they obviously still didn't know that it was bribery while Trump was still on the phone, so it's totally okay, guys. Def not a problem at all. Nothing to see here.
*cough*
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