Page 16 of 60 FirstFirst ... 6 14 15 16 17 18 26 ... LastLast
Results 451 to 480 of 1787

Thread: Trump 2019 - There are still children in detention separated from their parents

  1. #451
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    But the Russia voter thing was / is just ONE THING.

    The House is still investigating the violation of the emoluments clause, and campaign fraud, and all kinds of shit that’s outside of the scope of this investigation.

    Starr was investigating WHITEWATER. It took Starr over SIX YEARS and he went off on all kinds of various fishing expeditions. And he still didn’t indict Clinton; CONGRESS had to indict Clinton, AS REQUIRED.

    I don’t understand what people were expecting, here. Mueller to show up at the White House with handcuffs? That can’t happen. Only Congress (currently) has the authority to indict the President.

    Mueller said it’s inconclusive as to if Trump committed obstruction, due to conflicting evidence so he’s not making a recommendation.

    Mueller didn’t say “oh fuck no, there is NO WAY that Trump obstructed!”

    Mueller didn’t say “There is no way the Russians interfered with our election.”

    Trump isn’t exonerated in this letter! It said Mueller DIDN’T see evidence. It doesn’t say the evidence (or criminal intent) doesn’t exist.

    Barr and Rosenstein say that Trump lacked corrupt intent; the very same reason why Comey didn’t go after Hillary Clinton. This is based on evidence.

    But that doesn’t mean that ... SOMEDAY ... we won’t discover evidence that DOES show this intent.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-24-2019 at 06:55 PM.

  2. #452
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    1,508
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    ^True, good point.

    The other thing that I've been thinking about is just the fact that political ideology is virtually unshakable, and that applies to all sides of the political spectrum. Realistically, no one who is anti-Trump right now is going to say, "Wow, okay, I guess I'm gonna turn into a Republican now." People are dug in, they already chose their side a long time ago, and they ain't budging. Ultimately, this whole investigation was probably completely inconsequential no matter what the outcome. The majority of Republican would have stood by Trump no matter what, and everyone on the left is going to continue hating him. I never for a minute thought that the Republicans in the Senate would impeach one of their own.

  3. #453
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Nope, very few Republicans voted to impeach NIXON even AFTER the Oval Office tapes were released.

    They were out there crying on the South Lawn when Nixon left on Marine One.

    Look at BEN STEIN remembering that day!!

    Last edited by allegro; 03-24-2019 at 07:01 PM.

  4. #454
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Laughingstock of the World (America)
    Posts
    4,579
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Trump isn’t exonerated in this letter! It said Mueller DIDN’T see evidence. It doesn’t say the evidence (or criminal intent) doesn’t exist.
    I'm going to do what every right-leaning outlet (and the president, and the WH) will do and stop you right there.

    BIG BOLD HEADLINE: MUELLER "DIDN'T SEE EVIDENCE OF COLLUSION"

    Literally nothing else you or me or anyone else has written will matter to tens of millions of voters, because that's is ALL they need to hear. Their eyes and ears are closed to ANYTHING beyond that headline.

    The summary released today will be a huge win for the GOP. It *shouldn't* be, but given the way partisan reporting and confirmation bias works, it will absolutely be a win.

    GOP voters don't care about the emoluments clause. They don't care about campaign fraud. They don't care that his kids were personally given top secret security clearance and caught using unauthorized channels to do dealings with murderous hostile leaders. And even if they somehow were suddenly made to care, they'd still go running back to "didn't see evidence of collusion" and use that as their "proof" that the Republicans who investigated Trump were actually a Democrat-led witch hunt and that none of these other issues are anything more than the left desperate to get back at them for something.

    I think people - the left, anyway - expected a smoking gun. Something that was being kept redacted and secret until the investigation was over. Not a perp walk in handcuffs, but something that would be a big "you're guilty as fuck and we will indict you the second you leave office" kind of message. And now that they didn't get it, they're going bonkers and calling it a cover up and what have you. It'd depressing seeing the self-proclaimed "sane" party turning into conspiracy theorists not even overnight, but in a matter of minutes.

    The lack of rational thought among supposed adults in this day in age is scaring the shit out of me.

  5. #455
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    So, if this is an accurate report of what happened, Trump hasn't conspired with Russia, but his assistants, advisers, lawyers, and children have? I don't get it. How could so many people around him have been outed as working with Russia and he not be involved? Why would he threaten and bribe witnesses and do everything in his power to stop the investigation?

    Why would so many of his colleagues lie to about their dealings with Russia? I just don't get it. I mean, are the convicted people going to jail over nothing? Have they, those indicted, and those who haven't been indicted but have admitted that they lied risked their freedom for absolutely no reason? I genuinely do not understand this.
    Last edited by zecho; 03-24-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  6. #456
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    1,508
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Literally nothing else you or me or anyone else has written will matter to tens of millions of voters, because that's is ALL they need to hear. Their eyes and ears are closed to ANYTHING beyond that headline.
    Yeah but which voters are you referring to? If you're talking about Republicans, sure, but the majority of them were never going to turn against Trump anyway, so what really has changed?

    If you're talking about Lefty voters, there's no way that that headline is the end of the story. They still hate Trump, and this outcome isn't going to sway them.

    So really, what's the impact of all this? Particularly as it pertains to the 2020 election? I don't know, maybe I'll be wrong, but I just don't see how any if this changes anything significant.

  7. #457
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    So, if this is an accurate report of what happened, Trump hasn't conspired with Russia, but his assistants, advisers, lawyers, and children have? I don't get it. How could so many people around him have been outed as working with Russia and he not be involved? Why would he threaten and bribe witnesses and do everything in his power to stop the investigation?

    Why would so many of his colleagues lie to about their dealings with Russia? I just don't get it. I mean, are the convicted people going to jail over nothing? Have they, those indicted, and those who haven't been indicted but have admitted that they lied risked their freedom for absolutely no reason? I genuinely do not understand this.

    Read the letter.

    It’s re: Conspiracy with Russia as to changing the results of the 2016 election.

    There were people talking with Russia, but each had different motives and some were personal motives and it appears that none of the evidence that Mueller uncovered indicates that Trump or his “campaign” worked with Russia in Russia’s specific campaign to affect the results of the election (motive).

    “Why would they lie?” They didn’t want to be seen as a “foreign agent,” which could make them look compromised or risk their security clearance.

    Does this mean that Trump and Putin weren’t working together to try to enrich themselves? No.

    But that wasn’t the scope of this investigation and I’m pretty sure that Putin covers his ass REALLY well, THAT is the problem.

    It’s one thing tracing a bunch of hackers. It’s another thing tracing a RICO trail to a guy who is believed to be richer than Bezos but who hides all his money (Putin).

    To explain:

    Papadopoulos went to jail for two weeks for perjury.

    Manafort went to jail primarily for crimes related to his own personal dealings with Ukraine, plus tax evasion, plus perjury and violating the terms of his bond.

    Flynn is in trouble for "willfully and knowingly" making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the FBI.

    Cohen, same thing plus tax fraud.

    The letter appointing Mueller gave him the ability to refer crimes he accidentally stumbled upon during the investigation to the proper authorities, because during a Federal “fishing expedition” you cast a wide net in the hopes that you’ll catch others who will turn on the main people you want. Sometimes that turns up not much except a bunch of other criminals.

    Now here is ANOTHER important part: The Southern District of New York is a part of the fishing expedition that is STILL ONGOING, and HAS NOT STOPPED.

    And one HUGE part of that is the investigation of fraud with the Inaugural Committee.

    NOBODY is home free. Because of the SDNY, even with the Trump tax returns.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-24-2019 at 07:56 PM.

  8. #458
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Read the letter.

    It’s re: Conspiracy with Russia as to changing the results of the 2016 election.

    There were people talking with Russia, but each had different motives and some were personal motives and it appears that none of the evidence that Mueller uncovered indicates that Trump or his “campaign” worked with Russia in Russia’s specific campaign to affect the results of the election (motive).

    “Why would they lie?” They didn’t want to be seen as a “foreign agent,” which could make them look compromised or risk their security clearance.

    Does this mean that Trump and Putin weren’t working together to try to enrich themselves? No.

    But that wasn’t the scope of this investigation and I’m pretty sure that Putin covers his ass REALLY well, THAT is the problem.

    It’s one thing tracing a bunch of hackers. It’s another thing tracing a RICO trail to a guy who is believed to be richer than Bezos but who hides all his money (Putin).

    To explain:

    Papadopoulos went to jail for two weeks for perjury.

    Manafort went to jail primarily for crimes related to his own personal dealings with Ukraine, plus tax evasion, plus perjury and violating the terms of his bond.

    Flynn is in trouble for "willfully and knowingly" making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the FBI.

    Cohen, same thing plus tax fraud.

    The letter appointing Mueller gave him the ability to refer crimes he accidentally stumbled upon during the investigation to the proper authorities, because during a Federal “fishing expedition” you cast a wide net in the hopes that you’ll catch others who will turn on the main people you want. Sometimes that turns up not much except a bunch of other criminals.

    Now here is ANOTHER important part: The Southern District of New York is a part of the fishing expedition that is STILL ONGOING, and HAS NOT STOPPED.

    And one HUGE part of that is the investigation of fraud with the Inaugural Committee.

    NOBODY is home free. Because of the SDNY, even with the Trump tax returns.
    All of that is true, but we also have emails from Don Jr. actively conspiring with Russia to affect the election, and in those emails he names Kushner and Manafort as also conspiring. And also Papadopoulos's Statement of the Offense includes this: "he sought to use her Russian connections over a period of months in an effort to arrange a meeting betweenthe Campaign and Russian government officials."

    So, aside from the people you mentioned, we have four names of people who definitely did conspire on behalf of the campaign with the purpose of affecting the results. Right?

  9. #459
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    All of that is true, but we also have emails from Don Jr. actively conspiring with Russia to affect the election, and in those emails he names Kushner and Manafort as also conspiring. And also Papadopoulos's Statement of the Offense includes this: "he sought to use her Russian connections over a period of months in an effort to arrange a meeting betweenthe Campaign and Russian government officials."

    So, aside from the people you mentioned, we have four names of people who definitely did conspire on behalf of the campaign with the purpose of affecting the results. Right?
    Guess not according to attorney Mueller. The guy who was emailing with Don Jr. - Goldstone - wasn’t connected with the Russian Government and was just full of shit. But that was trying to get dirt on Hillary. Not to tamper with elections via hacking and fake Twitter accounts etc etc. There’s a difference.

    Hillary’s team and the DNC paid Fusion GPS for an opposition research report on Trump, which included the Christopher Steele dossier originally commissioned by a never-Trump organization on the Right.

    Nothing is illegal about opposition research; it’s creepy when a foreign person presents it because it could be unethical, but there’s still some questions as to how “illegal” it is to get it from someone from another country (like Steele).

    So, yes, Goldstone - who ultimately had ZERO connection to the Russian Government and is a con artist - set up a meeting about “dirt on Hillary” with a Russian attorney and Manafort, Don Jr. and Kushner at Trump Tower, ONLY to find out that the attorney had no such dirt and was there to get Trump to get rid of Magnitsky (“Russian Adoptions”). Manafort et al left the meeting after a few minutes, realizing it was fruitless. So, that wasn’t working with Putin in the Russian hacking scheme; that was failed attempted opposition research.

    This site spells it out: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/artic...t-we-know.html

    It looks like there were people behind the scenes trying to get Trump elected but also trying to do some stupid shit that wasn’t necessarily blessed by Trump or even known by “the campaign” (whatever THAT was).

    Now, there IS a theory that Mueller was FORCED to close the investigation. And this is why the House wants to subpoena him and all of the documents.

    This was what happened re release of the Starr report: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori.../starr.report/
    Last edited by allegro; 03-24-2019 at 11:07 PM.

  10. #460
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,121
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    It does seem really strange that we've had a lot of indictments, lots of evidence coming out that all points to obstruction and public statements where Trump asked Russia to hack Hillary, and somehow this report says that they didn't see evidence of a crime?

    I guess I can understand the collusion one. It's well known that Trump didn't even want to become President. It's hard to conspire with a foreign agent who's trying to get you elected president when you didn't even want to be president.

    But obstruction? He fired Comey and admitted it was because of Russia. He was angry with Sessions for recusing himself. Plus this report mentions other things that are not public on that charge. Obstruction seems like a slam dunk to an outsider.

    *edit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/muelle...tion-1.5069827

    Some interesting analysis. Also, it appears that the deadlock on whether or not to charge him with obstruction came from the fact that as president he has the right to fire anyone he wants. His actions could very easily be considered obstruction, but he's allowed to do that because he's president. Apparently.
    Last edited by M1ke; 03-25-2019 at 06:21 AM.

  11. #461
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,987
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    We're all speaking to headlines based on a four page summary of the report. Congress has not seen this report and has not seen the direct conclusions from Mueller himself. Barr needs to testify, Mueller needs to testify, and Congress needs to be provided the full report along with the public. From the sound of it based on reporting over the last two years, Mueller was always going to build the case that the legislative branch would ultimately be responsible for holding this president accountable for what he found and investigated and that he wouldn't task DOJ with prosecuting based on established precedent.

    Any hot takes and pundit articles are too. damn. early. Of course this White House is claiming they're exonerated - remember who we're dealing with.

  12. #462
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    1,508
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    We're all speaking to headlines based on a four page summary of the report. Congress has not seen this report and has not seen the direct conclusions from Mueller himself. Barr needs to testify, Mueller needs to testify, and Congress needs to be provided the full report along with the public.
    Of course, but I can't imagine that Barr would misrepresent the content of Mueller's report, so even when it's all made public, but I don't see anything changing much.

  13. #463
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,987
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Of course, but I can't imagine that Barr would misrepresent the content of Mueller's report, so even when it's all made public, but I don't see anything changing much.
    First - https://www.businessinsider.com/will...rtable-2018-12

    William Barr, President Donald Trump's nominee for attorney general, sent an unsolicited memo to the Justice Department in June calling the special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into obstruction of justice "legally unsupportable" and "potentially disastrous," The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday. In his 20-page memo, which the Journal reviewed, Barr argued that Mueller's obstruction probe is based on an overly expansive reading of the special counsel's powers. He also wrote that Mueller shouldn't be allowed to demand an interview with Trump about obstruction of justice.
    Second - if it is the opinion of the special counsel to not prosecute the sitting president based on established precedent and that it is the job of congress to do so, then congress needs to see the FULL REPORT to determine how to move forward. It should not be summarized in a "Mueller Report for Dummies" pamphlet. Congress' duty is to determine if/when the president obstructs justice and how to hold the president accountable if/when that happens. They need all of the information the report yielded to make that determination.

  14. #464
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    Second - if it is the opinion of the special counsel to not prosecute the sitting president based on established precedent
    The letter's obstruction conclusion isn't solely based on precedent, it's also based on the rules of criminal procedure, highlights are my own:

    Obstruction of Justice.

    The report's second part addresses a number of actions by the President – most of which have been the subject of public reporting – that the Special Counsel investigated as potentially raising obstruction-of-justice concerns. After making a “thorough factual investigation” into these matters, the Special Counsel considered whether to evaluate the conduct under Department standards governing prosecution and declination decisions but ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other – as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction. Instead, for each of the relevant actions investigated, the report sets out evidence on both sides of the question and leaves unresolved what the Special Counsel views as “difficult issues” of law and fact concerning whether the President's actions and intent could be viewed as obstruction. The Special Counsel states that “while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

    The Special Counsel's decision to describe the facts of his obstruction investigation without reaching any legal conclusions leaves it to the Attorney General to determine whether the conduct described in the report constitutes a crime. Over the course of the investigation, the Special Counsel's office engaged in discussions with certain Department officials regarding many of the legal and factual matters at issue in the Special Counsel's obstruction investigation. After reviewing the Special Counsel's final report on these issues; consulting with Department officials, including the Office of Legal Counsel; and applying the principles of federal prosecution that guide our charging decisions, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president.2

    In making this determination, we noted that the Special Counsel recognized that “the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference," and that, while not determinative, the absence of such evidence bears upon the President's intent with respect to obstruction. Generally speaking, to obtain and sustain an obstruction conviction, the government would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person, acting with corrupt intent, engaged in obstructive conduct with a sufficient nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding. In cataloguing the President's actions, many of which took place in public view, the report identifies no actions that, in our judgment, constitute obstructive conduct, had a nexus to a pending or contemplated proceeding, and were done with corrupt intent, each of which, under the Department's principles of federal prosecution guiding charging decisions, would need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to establish an obstruction-of-justice offense.

    2 See A Sitting President's Amenability to Indictment and Criminal Prosecution, 24 Op. O.L.C. 222 (2000).

    See this article in the New York Times in 2017 regarding obstruction cases.
    Last edited by allegro; 03-25-2019 at 12:24 PM.

  15. #465
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    1,508
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    First - https://www.businessinsider.com/will...rtable-2018-12



    Second - if it is the opinion of the special counsel to not prosecute the sitting president based on established precedent and that it is the job of congress to do so, then congress needs to see the FULL REPORT to determine how to move forward. It should not be summarized in a "Mueller Report for Dummies" pamphlet. Congress' duty is to determine if/when the president obstructs justice and how to hold the president accountable if/when that happens. They need all of the information the report yielded to make that determination.
    Yeah, I know that Barr write that memo, but I still don't see him going out of his way to completely misrepresent the findings in Mueller's report. There's just no way that he could get away with lying about the contents of that report, so why would he even bother trying? The report is guaranteed to come out, one way or another, and Barr and everyone else knows this. So how would it benefit them to lie about it right now, when doing so would just blow up in their faces?

    Again, obviously the report needs to be given to Congress and be made public, but I feel like a lot of people are in denial about what's going to happen when it's released. There's not going to be some new revelation that contradicts Barr's summary.

  16. #466
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    not atlanta
    Posts
    2,225
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Yes I’m sure the guy hand picked by trump to replace recused Sessions would not go out of his way to misrepresent the report. Seems legit.

  17. #467
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,987
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Again, obviously the report needs to be given to Congress and be made public, but I feel like a lot of people are in denial about what's going to happen when it's released. There's not going to be some new revelation that contradicts Barr's summary.
    It's not going to be the end of Goodfellas, nor was it ever going to be.

    Also, regarding Barr -


  18. #468
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Yeah, I know that Barr write that memo, but I still don't see him going out of his way to completely misrepresent the findings in Mueller's report. There's just no way that he could get away with lying about the contents of that report, so why would he even bother trying? The report is guaranteed to come out, one way or another, and Barr and everyone else knows this. So how would it benefit them to lie about it right now, when doing so would just blow up in their faces?

    Again, obviously the report needs to be given to Congress and be made public, but I feel like a lot of people are in denial about what's going to happen when it's released. There's not going to be some new revelation that contradicts Barr's summary.
    Well, and remember:

    The head of the Senate Judiciary Committee is also an Attorney:

    Lindsey Graham.

    And guess who spent the weekend at Mar-a-Lago:

    Lindsey Graham.

    And guess who currently has like 95% approval rating in his state:

    Lindsey Graham.

    Non-Attorney journalists are on TV talking about how this is “only 4 pages” and “just a summary.” But attorneys (and paralegals) write brief, succinct summaries all the time.

    In this case, it’s also a legal opinion based on meetings with the Office of Legal Counsel and the Deputy Attorney General and is based on the Code of Civil and Criminal Procedures and case law. At any rate, this 4-page letter is also a crystal ball as to how the Republican-majority Senate Judiciary Committee will decide (should Trump be indicted by the House).

    Lindsey Graham - and Senate Republicans will determine EXACTLY what Barr did in this letter.

    But Democrats can go ‘head and put on a dog and pony show and roll the dice as to how those optics work out in 2020 and hope they don’t inadvertently put Trump on a cross and make him an even bigger martyr than he already IS to his worshippers.

    Lindsey Graham has a photo of himself and Judge Kavanaugh as his Twitter icon.

    But ...

    Trump still uses the Office of the Presidency to enrich himself and his family.

    He used his charity organization as a personal bank account.

    His family misrepresented information about Trump SoHo and committed fraud.

    He gave campaign funds to two women as hush money.

    He issued an Emergency Order to get money for a wall to circumvent Congress and the Constitution.

    The list goes on.

    But VERY FEW Republicans are willing to go against him right now
    Last edited by allegro; 03-25-2019 at 01:33 PM.

  19. #469
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    349
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    The current fallout is depressing but definitely not surprising. While there is a lot more that remains to be seen and heard, a lot of the centrist-liberal reaction to this kind of cements that the Mueller investigation was basically Liberal Q-Anon. Which is not to say the Mueller investigation was a fantasy dreamed up by political radicals - merely that it represented a similar, impossible pipe dream for its corresponding political faction. We all want a cure-all (or the closest thing to it) for this nightmare of an administration, and Trump is so flagrantly corrupt and crass and driven by impulse that it seemed impossible that they wouldn't find something that would stick in a way everything thus far just hasn't (thanks to a fanatical GOP defending the avatar of their true face and a hopelessly ineffective Democratic Party fumbling every outrage). It makes sense we got our hopes up about Mueller, but in the end it was wishful thinking at best, 2016 model head-in-the-sand denial at worst.

    This all just illustrates how foolish and cowardly Pelosi's recent dismissal of impeachment was. It doesn't matter if you don't have the votes yet, or don't think it will go very far - to act like there wasn't an enormous number of perfectly legitimate reasons to impeach him already was wholly irresponsible, damaging to arguments against him outside of the word "collusion", and did nothing except embitter a weary electorate that already has trouble believing she is accomplishing anything resembling "#Resistance."

    But don't worry, our brave opposition surely won't let us down! After all, the Democratic Party has responded to AOC's eloquence and enormous popularity by doing their best to stop candidates like her from happening again, proving once again they would rather flirt with fascism and tsk-tsk the electorate than move an inch left to win. The people who criticize Sanders for "not even being a real Democrat" should be thrilled!

    Trump is an abomination and there is no excuse for him not being gone already. But if it's not already obvious, our systems will not save us. We need a political opposition that seems more likely to alleviate the situation than Trump and his stooges straight sinking themselves from their own mistakes.
    Last edited by Deacon Blackfire; 03-25-2019 at 03:06 PM.

  20. #470
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    1,508
    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    Yes I’m sure the guy hand picked by trump to replace recused Sessions would not go out of his way to misrepresent the report. Seems legit.
    Nah, come on, think about it. This theory makes no sense. How could Barr pull off a stunt like that? There's no way he could realistically hope to lie about the Mueller report. The report is going to get out there no matter what, so, even from their perspective, trying to cover it up by lying about its contents would be a guaranteed fail. And that's why I find it so unlikely.

    I'm not saying I find it unlikely because I have faith in Barr's character. Obviously that guy is an asshole. And if he thought for one second that he could realistically get away with a cover up, I'm sure he would try. But there's a difference between being an asshole and a complete moron. Nobody in his position with even a modicum of common sense would think it was a feasible idea to suppress Mueller's report by just blatantly lying about it. If, say, Mueller's report actually contained all sorts of damning evidence against Trump that was likely to get him impeached, what good would it do for Barr to lie about it in his summary? It's not like that would actually be the end of it. It would only be, at best, a very short-term delay, and when the truth inevitably came out the consequences would be ten times worse for all of them and Barr would go down in flames too. And he knows this.

    And for me, that's the main reason why this whole theory is so unlikely. It's not that Barr is such a good person who would never lie because he has such stalwart principles. He wouldn't try it because, even from his own scummy point of view and interest in basic self-preservation and a desire to succeed, this plan would be a guaranteed failure.

  21. #471
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,987
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Anyway, McConnell just blocked a measure in the Senate that would release the Mueller report publicly. Because it exonerates Trump completely.

  22. #472
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    BFE Tennessee
    Posts
    1,645
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ltrandazzo View Post
    Anyway, McConnell just blocked a measure in the Senate that would release the Mueller report publicly. Because it exonerates Trump completely.
    God I am so back and forth between who I despise more. McConnell or Graham. They are the worst.

  23. #473
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    1,987
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmcfly View Post
    God I am so back and forth between who I despise more. McConnell or Graham. They are the worst.
    *replies with 'why not both' .GIF*

  24. #474
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The Bronx
    Posts
    362
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanmcfly View Post
    God I am so back and forth between who I despise more. McConnell or Graham. They are the worst.
    I hate them both for very similar reasons, enough to make the two almost come off to me as pretty much the same person.

  25. #475
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    not atlanta
    Posts
    2,225
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    Nah, come on, think about it. This theory makes no sense. How could Barr pull off a stunt like that? There's no way he could realistically hope to lie about the Mueller report. The report is going to get out there no matter what, so, even from their perspective, trying to cover it up by lying about its contents would be a guaranteed fail. And that's why I find it so unlikely.

    I'm not saying I find it unlikely because I have faith in Barr's character. Obviously that guy is an asshole. And if he thought for one second that he could realistically get away with a cover up, I'm sure he would try. But there's a difference between being an asshole and a complete moron. Nobody in his position with even a modicum of common sense would think it was a feasible idea to suppress Mueller's report by just blatantly lying about it. If, say, Mueller's report actually contained all sorts of damning evidence against Trump that was likely to get him impeached, what good would it do for Barr to lie about it in his summary? It's not like that would actually be the end of it. It would only be, at best, a very short-term delay, and when the truth inevitably came out the consequences would be ten times worse for all of them and Barr would go down in flames too. And he knows this.

    And for me, that's the main reason why this whole theory is so unlikely. It's not that Barr is such a good person who would never lie because he has such stalwart principles. He wouldn't try it because, even from his own scummy point of view and interest in basic self-preservation and a desire to succeed, this plan would be a guaranteed failure.
    It’s not that I don’t agree with you or the idea that he wouldn’t distort the report purposely. It’s more that trump was extremely vocal about his problem with sessions’ recusal. The person installed after sessions was known to have an opinion that favors trump. The math does itself for me. I cannot see it any other way. I do not trust Barr or his summary.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  26. #476
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    9,223
    Mentioned
    552 Post(s)
    One thing is for sure... and this is conspiracy territory, but I'm playing along... If Barr intended to hand Trump an optics win, he did. If he didn't intend to do so, he did so anyway.

    And even if the full report leaks some really disturbing details that he's glanced over or what the hell ever, the optics win is still a win.

  27. #477
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    I assumed Barr was telling the truth until McConnell blocked the bill from being seen. Now I'm skeptical.

  28. #478
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    McConnell blocked Schumer’s resolution; McConnell “cited national security concerns for his decision to block the resolution, and he argued that Attorney General Bill Barr should have time to decide what's made public.”

    In other words, the full report isn’t permanently blocked; only the immediate public release is blocked, until the AG can determine if some stuff needs to be redacted.

    https://www.axios.com/mcconnell-bloc...c6122c44b.html

    This is per the Rules: https://www.brookings.edu/testimonie...l-regulations/
    Last edited by allegro; 03-26-2019 at 12:04 AM.

  29. #479
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, IL
    Posts
    14,384
    Mentioned
    994 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    It’s not that I don’t agree with you or the idea that he wouldn’t distort the report purposely. It’s more that trump was extremely vocal about his problem with sessions’ recusal. The person installed after sessions was known to have an opinion that favors trump. The math does itself for me. I cannot see it any other way. I do not trust Barr or his summary.
    Trump hated Sessions’ recusal because he didn’t UNDERSTAND Sessions’ recusal and the fact that Sessions was required, by the canons of ethics and the oath he took as an attorney, to recuse himself; he could have been DISBARRED for NOT recusing himself. Trump is a moron.

    Re Barr’s letter: 15 legal experts weigh in. <—— VERY GOOD ARTICLE
    Last edited by allegro; 03-26-2019 at 01:06 AM.

  30. #480
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    2,587
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)



Posting Permissions