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Thread: Trump 2019 - There are still children in detention separated from their parents

  1. #301
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    My favorite part is the Republican hand wringing about how this is a disgrace that they have to listen to this liar... that this wasn't what they signed up for...

    Uh, he's accusing the fucking PRESIDENT of misconduct, and all you assholes are doing is shouting accusations and then cutting him off as soon as he tries to answer, and none of the allegations have to do with WHY HE'S THERE.

    Worst part was the person, forgot who, claiming that this is a waste of citizenry's time. Uh, we choose to fucking watch it. You know what's a waste of our time and money? These endless discussions about a pointless fucking wall, listening to Sarah Sanders lie every time she opens her mouth, and making a NEW holiday set for the 4th of July.

    The citizens of this country CHOOSE to listen to his testimony or not. We can tune out at any time and, I dunno, watch the fucking Bachelor or something. Believe it or not, some of us are really concerned that this incompetent motherfucker is going to permanently wreck our country, so maybe, JUST MAYBE, we'd like to hear the sworn testimony of the guy who was his personal fixer for over a decade.

    The only reason you think it would be a "waste of our time" is you don't want us to believe a word of it. Oh yeah, and that one guy who tried to admonish Cohen for staging this testimony while "the president is over seas, negotiating and trying to make the world a safer place." Go. Fuck. Your. Self.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    "President Donald Trump directed his longtime attorney Michael Cohen to lie"
    vs.
    "And while Mr. Trump did not explicitly instruct him to lie"
    Yeah but someone can still "direct" you to lie without "explicitly instructing" you to do so. I feel like this is just a minor semantic distinction that doesn't ultimately change the real truth of the situation. The "speaking in code" stuff referenced in the tweet that Cat Mom posted should still be viewed as obstruction of justice. I don't think anyone ever assumed that Trump sent Cohen a text message saying, "Hey buddy, make sure you commit perjury for me tomorrow. Your pal, Donald J. Trump." I mean, if Trump is encourages his subordinates to lie for him through the use of "code" and by having his lawyers review statements on his behalf, that should still qualify as him "instructing" Cohen to lie.

    Marcy Wheeler has a pretty brilliant article about this exact issue: https://newrepublic.com/article/1529...uborns-perjury

    there are notable differences in the way the two prosecutions characterize the degree to which Trump—referred to as Individual-1 or Client-1 rather than by name—directed Cohen’s illegal conduct. With respect to hush payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, Cohen admitted in the SDNY case that he acted “on Client-1’s instruction, to attempt to prevent [women alleging to be the Candidate’s former sex partners] from disseminating narratives that would adversely affect [his] Campaign.” By contrast, in Mueller’s case, Cohen claimed that, when he lied to Congress about the Trump Tower deal in Moscow, he was “seeking to stay in line with” the message Trump and “White House-based staff and legal counsel to Trump” were pushing regarding Trump’s ties to Russia.

    That is, in pleading guilty to SDNY prosecutors, Cohen said Trump “instructed” him to take action. But in pleading guilty to Mueller’s prosecutors, Cohen said he was following the messaging of Trump’s advisers, without claiming to have been instructed to do so. In both cases, however, Cohen said loyalty to Trump led him to commit crimes to sustain Trump’s desired message.
    [...]
    So where do all the lies come from? The record indicates that Trump decides what lie is going to be told, and the people around him, indirectly or otherwise, do what they need to sustain it, even if it includes lying to Congress, the FBI, and Mueller’s team.
    I find it strange that this hasn't been discussed further in most of the media, because it really is one of the most important aspects of the investigation into Trump's crimes, and the area that has best chance of bringing him down.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    I find it strange that this hasn't been discussed further in most of the media, because it really is one of the most important aspects of the investigation into Trump's crimes, and the area that has best chance of bringing him down.
    I think that may be a part of the much bigger case that the SDNY is building against Trump and the Trump Organization right now, which is likely a RICO case (with which Trump’s longtime CFO Allen Weisselberg is cooperating).

    It’s been in various articles all over especially related to the inauguration but also related to Trump and the Trump Organization’s relationship to Felix Sater, etc. The bottom line being, in essence, that Trump is a mob boss.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 02-27-2019 at 04:40 PM.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    My favorite part is the Republican hand wringing about how this is a disgrace that they have to listen to this liar... that this wasn't what they signed up for...

    Uh, he's accusing the fucking PRESIDENT of misconduct, and all you assholes are doing is shouting accusations and then cutting him off as soon as he tries to answer, and none of the allegations have to do with WHY HE'S THERE.

    Worst part was the person, forgot who, claiming that this is a waste of citizenry's time. Uh, we choose to fucking watch it. You know what's a waste of our time and money? These endless discussions about a pointless fucking wall, listening to Sarah Sanders lie every time she opens her mouth, and making a NEW holiday set for the 4th of July.

    The citizens of this country CHOOSE to listen to his testimony or not. We can tune out at any time and, I dunno, watch the fucking Bachelor or something. Believe it or not, some of us are really concerned that this incompetent motherfucker is going to permanently wreck our country, so maybe, JUST MAYBE, we'd like to hear the sworn testimony of the guy who was his personal fixer for over a decade.

    The only reason you think it would be a "waste of our time" is you don't want us to believe a word of it. Oh yeah, and that one guy who tried to admonish Cohen for staging this testimony while "the president is over seas, negotiating and trying to make the world a safer place." Go. Fuck. Your. Self.
    If they truly believed that Trump is innocent, they would have participated in interviewing Cohen to try to exonerate the president instead of using their allotted time to yell about other issues and how stupid they think this is. I had to stop watching a few speakers after AOC, but up until then not a single Republican had asked a question related to the president committing a crime. Most of them didn't have questions at all, and the remainder were just accusations.

    I find it very telling that none of them participated in the questioning. They don't care about the truth, just about "winning," and they very clearly demonstrated that today. I would have respect for anyone who doesn't believe that Trump is guilty and asked questions to further that, and I can't believe that not one Republican that spoke in the entire time I watched was willing to do that. If they're not interested in pursuing an investigation into possible crimes against the US, even if they don't believe them, then they're not fit to hold office.

  5. #305
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    Speaking of AOC, wow, SHE WAS GOOD. She did a great job.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by zecho View Post
    I find it very telling that none of them participated in the questioning. They don't care about the truth, just about "winning," and they very clearly demonstrated that today.
    Yes... though I just gotta shout this out too, I got a little sick of hearing the Democrats announce that it was their turn to ask a question by first tickling Cohen's chin and trying to get him to feel like he's been a very good boy. Kinda gross pandering considering.

    But I get it.

    And it was good to not see AOC go anywhere near there. She's a rock star.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 02-27-2019 at 05:10 PM.

  7. #307
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    Yeahhhhhh and that whole Meadows I’M NOT A RACIST (for trotting out a black woman as a human Exhibit A as proof as to how Trump isn’t racist):


  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    Yes... though I just gotta shout this out too, I got a little sick of hearing the Democrats announce that it was their turn to ask a question by first tickling Cohen's chin and trying to get him to feel like he's been a very good boy. Kinda gross pandering considering.

    But I get it.

    And it was good to not see AOC go anywhere near there. She's a rock star.
    Yeah, the Democrats that started their questioning by talking about how great they are or how great what Cohen is doing is pissed me off. Specifically that one woman that started off her questioning with a quote about electricity and then said "well, let there be light." Ugh. We don't need that sanctimonious bullshit, we need you to do your job and ask questions.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat Mom View Post
    Yeahhhhhh and that whole Meadows I’M NOT A RACIST (for trotting out a black woman as a human Exhibit A as proof as to how Trump isn’t racist)
    Thank god he got straight up called out for that on the floor. I was screaming in my head.

  10. #310
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    So....now what? We wait?

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickyvicky View Post
    So....now what? We wait?
    https://swingleft.org/groups

  12. #312
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    I'm not sure how to embed Tweets, so...

    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...19952305651712

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    I'm not sure how to embed Tweets, so...

    https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...19952305651712

  14. #314
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    thank you... though I'm still in the dark hehe... so... here's another one, that's pretty damn creepy if you ask me... (and this one didn't even hyperlink for me... what's going on with my stuff...)

    https://twitter.com/PeterWStevenson/status/1100822718281338887

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post


    (just put the url of the tweet between [ tweet ] and [ /tweet ] (and kill the spaces between the letters and brackets. If you quote my post, you'll see the formatting in action.)

  16. #316
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    This stuff was linked yesterday.

    Cohen’s four attorneys reviewed the form during lunch and determined that the form was filled out correctly, because Cohen had a contract with two private banks. But Jordan and Meadows kept asserting that Cohen received over $800,000 from the actual government of South Korea vs. private bank in South Korea (which Cohen disputed) and Meadows and Jordan insisted that both the South Korean and the Kazakhstan Governments have controlling interest in each bank, which obviously Cohen’s attorneys dispute.

    Jordan moved past the whole thing and said they’d deal with it later. It was just a dumb tactic.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 02-28-2019 at 01:56 PM.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickyvicky View Post
    So....now what? We wait?
    Remember when AOC asked Cohen who should be subpoenaed next?

    That’s probably next. Trump’s CFO, Trump’s former secretary, some of Trump’s security henchmen.

  18. #318
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    I guess I missed that earlier posting, though did we all see that creepy wink moment? It wasn't on the TV feed I was watching.

    Y'know what's really driving me nuts here though? Of course Trump speaks in code through language his assigned fixer understands. Then the fixer does what he was "told" to, and Trump doesn't say "hey, what the fuck man, why'd you do THAT?!"

    For ten years...

    It doesn't surprise me that he never explicitly says things. He's like a mob boss. "Make him an offer he can't refuse." What if he used charades? Does that not count then? Are we seriously STUCK because Trump had the smidgen of self-awareness to be coy with his orders? And really, if Cohen was lying here to pin him to something, wouldn't he make up something that wielded more legal weight?

    Did we cover the confirmation from Fordham U that Cohen wrote a letter threatening legal action if they released his grades?
    Last edited by Jinsai; 02-28-2019 at 02:54 PM.

  19. #319
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    @Jinsai , the issue is whether or not there is any other corroborating evidence besides stuff we have so far. That’s why subpoenaing the CFO and Trump’s Secretary (whom Cohen said sat right outside Trump’s office door) can help.

    Also, remember, it’s alleged that the SDNY is building a RICO case against Trump and his companies right now. (Still arguments as to whether or not a sitting President can be indicted by the Feds, and some of the statutes of limitation would expire on these crimes before he’d be out of office in 2024 if he won in 2020 which really sucks.)

    Impeachment... they will want a lot of data from different sources. They just got into power in January. It’s February.

    Wink from Meadows, no, you’re right, you linked that first here. It’s proof that they’re just full of shit.

    EDIT: Re CFO Weisselberg, SEE THIS.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 03-03-2019 at 10:17 AM.

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  21. #321
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    Here’s Rep. Clay Higgins of Louisiana filming a selfie video from friggin’ Auschwitz:



    edit: I gotta give the guy credit, though; at least he'll alienate the Holocaust deniers in his district.
    Last edited by Cat Mom; 03-01-2019 at 11:55 AM.

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  23. #323
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    Well if that doesn't just sum up the entire administration....

    KELLY: And what do you believe is the significance of this, Mike? Beyond the Byzantine, you know, West Wing politics of the White House, why does it matter?

    SCHMIDT: I think at a very basic level, the intelligence community was saying, we're not comfortable with this; there are issues here. The president's top lawyer was saying the same thing. And despite that, the president went ahead and did it anyway.

  24. #324
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  25. #325
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    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jerry-n...ruction-probe/

    House Judiciary chairman Jerry Nadler says he believes Trump has obstructed justice; will be seeking documents from 60 people near to Trump.

  26. #326
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    Jane Mayer files an excellent investigative piece that highlights Fox News as the official propaganda arm of this White House and that among other things, Trump directed Gary Cohn to file a lawsuit prevent the Warner Bros./ATT merger

    Hannity was treated in Texas like a member of the Administration because he virtually is one. The same can be said of Fox’s chairman, Rupert Murdoch. Fox has long been a bane of liberals, but in the past two years many people who watch the network closely, including some Fox alumni, say that it has evolved into something that hasn’t existed before in the United States. Nicole Hemmer, an assistant professor of Presidential studies at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center and the author of “Messengers of the Right,” a history of the conservative media’s impact on American politics, says of Fox, “It’s the closest we’ve come to having state TV.”
    With Shine, the Fox and White House payrolls actually do overlap. The Hollywood Reporter obtained financial-disclosure forms revealing that Fox has been paying Shine millions of dollars since he joined the Administration. Last year, he collected the first half of a seven-million-dollar bonus that he was owed after resigning from Fox; this year, he will collect the remainder. That sum is in addition to an $8.4-million severance payment that he received upon leaving the network.
    Charlie Black, a longtime Republican lobbyist in Washington, whose former firm, Black, Manafort & Stone, advised Trump in the eighties and nineties, told me, “Trump gets up and watches ‘Fox & Friends’ and thinks these are his friends. He thinks anything on Fox is friendly. But the problem is he gets unvetted ideas.” Trump has told confidants that he has ranked the loyalty of many reporters, on a scale of 1 to 10. Bret Baier, Fox News’ chief political anchor, is a 6; Hannity a solid 10. Steve Doocy, the co-host of “Fox & Friends,” is so adoring that Trump gives him a 12.
    For Greta Van Susteren, a host on Fox between 2002 and 2016, Hannity’s rally appearance illustrates the difference at Fox since Ailes’s departure. For all of Ailes’s faults, Van Susteren argues, he exerted a modicum of restraint. She believes that he would have insisted on at least some distance from President Trump, if only to preserve the appearance of journalistic respectability embodied in the motto Ailes devised for Fox: “Fair and Balanced.” (That motto was retired in 2017.)
    However, in the late summer of 2017, a few months before the Justice Department filed suit, Trump ordered Gary Cohn, then the director of the National Economic Council, to pressure the Justice Department to intervene. According to a well-informed source, Trump called Cohn into the Oval Office along with John Kelly, who had just become the chief of staff, and said in exasperation to Kelly, “I’ve been telling Cohn to get this lawsuit filed and nothing’s happened! I’ve mentioned it fifty times. And nothing’s happened. I want to make sure it’s filed. I want that deal blocked!”

    Cohn, a former president of Goldman Sachs, evidently understood that it would be highly improper for a President to use the Justice Department to undermine two of the most powerful companies in the country as punishment for unfavorable news coverage, and as a reward for a competing news organization that boosted him. According to the source, as Cohn walked out of the meeting he told Kelly, “Don’t you fucking dare call the Justice Department. We are not going to do business that way.”
    BTW, if you couldn't tell, Gary Cohn was totally a source for this piece since this casts him in a positive light BECAUSE OF COURSE IT DOES.

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  28. #328
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    Woohoo!

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  30. #330
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    I still will never understand, given how much scrutiny and attention is on Roger Stone right now, WHY THE HELL is his deleted tweet, where he tweeted "never denied perfectly legal back channel to Assange who indeed had the goods on #CrookedHillary" not being brought up? The last news article I can find that even brings it up is from 2017.

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