11/08/2022, The Midterms, aka build on 2020 aka The Election Thread

[bobbie solo]

This clip plus the thread made my Sunday morning great:

I really don't want to go back and forth with you, as I imagine a multi-page diatribe coming my way filled with about two dozen links & quotes inside. But I'll give you mine first.

What I will say is that as of this fall, Bernie was the most popular senator & one of the top, most popular politicians in the country, with enormous name recognition. People have no idea who alot of these newer candidates are, and name recognition sadly goes along way with a disaffected electorate.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lt/1590329002/

https://news.gallup.com/poll/243539/...e-sanders.aspx

As a candidate/president, I trust him alot more than these other Johnny Come Lately's as far as progressive values. His track record is long & consistent. You know you can trust Bernie to not waiver on what he will fight for once he gets in office. I really don't care what the race and gender of the Dem candidate ends up being. I care about policy. That's why I'd be just as happy with Elizabeth Warren. With someone like Gillibrand or Harris, we'd always be waiting for the other shoe to drop when it's time to come to the table with the right or the big money interests that still infest the Dem party. People make it like b/c he's old & white that he won't care about women and minorities. It's absurd. Bernie's the biggest bleeding heart lib you can ask for!

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-for-president

As far as his demeanor, alot of people including myself find his grumpy old man thing endearing. You would be grumpy too if you had his views and worked in a Congress for as long as he has that is diamtetrically opposed to those same policies.

In the end, I'm glad establishment people like that seemingly lovely woman are saying things like this. Means they're still scared of him and the enormous following he still has. If they weren't worried about him winning, they wouldn't talk shit all the time. It's not like anyone was telling Martin O'Malley to drop out.

[ltrandazzo]

Mazie knows what's up.

[bobbie solo]

Tulsi Gabbard has no shot. She's simply trying to elevate her profile.

[allegro]

@bobbie solo , her grumpy old man etc. comments were deliberate retorts against the obviously sexist comments people are making about Elizabeth Warren; her not being “likable,” her appearance, etc. There is a WAR right now on Twitter with the Bernie fans going after people in the Warren Twitter feed, like “THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE, AND THAT CANDIDATE IS BERNIE, SO GTFO ELIZABETH WARREN.” I’m not kidding.

None of their ideas are original. People are crediting Bernie with Medicare for All, except Ted Kennedy and John Dingell wrote that legislation in 2007. Bill Clinton had a universal healthcare plan in 1993.

Ultimately, Biden is probably going to cancel both of Warren and Sanders out.

The powerful candidate is the one who will be able to get Barack Obama levels of black voters to the polls, particularly black women. Black people elected Barack Obama, in the primaries, and in the elections. Twice, in record numbers.

Bernie didn’t do that, Hillary didn’t do that, Biden didn’t do that.

Lol what’s fun: go back and read this thread:
https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...Election/page2

[allegro]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Kamala Harris’ Mood Mix

[bobbie solo]

Ugh. Gross. I feel like I need a shower after watching that. Douche chills. I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE MY FUCKING FRIEND I WANT YOU TO KICK THE SHIT OUT OF REPUBLICANS. This shit isn't a game. Fucking act like it...at least act like it first before trying to pull the "i have hot sauce in my purse/watch me a do a dab on Ellen" schtick.

[allegro]

That’s funny, because Black Twitter totally LOVES that Harris video; people are volunteering to campaign for her and she hasn’t even said she’s running.

“Douche” chills? Wtf is a douche chill? Have you ever douched? It involves WARM water. That’s one dumb oxymoron.

[Swykk]

I’m still forming my opinions on 2020 candidates so it’s early and I very well could change my mind, but I like a Harris/O’Rourke ticket at this time.

I think it covers a lot of bases.

That said, this video wasn’t for me.

I think Bernie’s time has passed, sadly, because I H A T E what was done to him by the DNC. I also think Biden’s time has passed though he probably is the early frontrunner. Warren lost me when she refused to back Bernie (only to back him now; too little too late) and allowed Trump to play his troll game with her. Cory Booker has some juice but is too far into big pharma’s pocket for my tastes.

You could almost forget I said any of this because let’s all remember the lesson of 2016 (which I tried to convey then)-There is no perfect candidate and yet any of them will be better than Trump. HRC was so much better than Trump. I was one of the biggest Bernie supporters here and I voted for HRC because I knew it would be worse if we didn’t.

So fucking swallow your pride and vote this time. We lost two Supreme Court seats and have gone through a massively damaging last 2 years. Do not fuck this up again. Please remember this time!

[allegro]

As a candidate/president, I trust him alot more than these other Johnny Come Lately's as far as progressive values. His track record is long & consistent. You know you can trust Bernie to not waiver on what he will fight for once he gets in office. I really don't care what the race and gender of the Dem candidate ends up being. I care about policy. That's why I'd be just as happy with Elizabeth Warren. With someone like Gillibrand or Harris, we'd always be waiting for the other shoe to drop when it's time to come to the table with the right or the big money interests that still infest the Dem party. People make it like b/c he's old & white that he won't care about women and minorities. It's absurd. Bernie's the biggest bleeding heart lib you can ask for!.

The Executive Branch doesn’t legislate.

The Legislative Branch legislates.

The Executive Branch executes (existing) laws, handles foreign policy, oversees the state department, etc.

That’s why Trump’s “I’ll Bulld a Wall!” promise was a lie; Presidents can’t do that. They lack the authority and the money. Congress alone holds the “Power of the Purse.” Congress can override a Presidential veto. Presidential promises of “Medicare for All” are bullshit. Presidents can’t do that. The ACA was passed by CONGRESS. (It was largely written by insurance lobbyists, but let’s not digress.) Congress actually has EQUAL POWER TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. Sometimes Congress has MORE power.

So, it will likely come down to: Who can beat Trump?

And THAT will be dependent on whether or not minorities - specifically BLACK voters - will show up in huge numbers to vote for the Democratic candidate AND if the voting process isn’t stimied by voter suppression.

People defending Bernie and accusing the DNC for 2016 are forgetting something:

THE FUCKING RUSSIANS INTERFERED IN OUR ELECTION PROCESS.

They planted propaganda everywhere. Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager, provided the Russians with highly valuable POLLING data, enabling the Russians to target their propaganda. Trump’s campaign was involved with Putin and Wikileaks.

And, BERNIE WASN’T EVEN A FUCKING DEMOCRAT.

Plus, he STILL has a problem with black voters: https://apnews.com/6a937194f7ff4ed2a74635257a19db90

I think Warren is BETTER OFF in the Senate; she’s more valuable there.

The right wing is already spreading Birther shit about Harris.

[Mantra]

I honestly don't even care who the Dem candidate is. I guess Warren would probably be my first choice, but if it's not her, oh well. Ultimately, the Dem candidate is getting my vote no matter what.

[Jinsai]

"A song that makes me think of my birth place, Oakland? Anything by Too $hort."

I can't be the only one who immediately thought of the song "Blowjob Betty" there... I think Kamala is a great choice to run, but come on with the "watch me humanize myself in a list" thing.

[Swykk]

Stop pushing that nonsense; almost none of that excuses the DNC’s actions. Yes, Russia interfered but the DNC also conspired and stole superdelegate votes Bernie earned in multiple states. They decided HRC was the one and fucked him. Both things happened.

Who fucking cares if “HE WASNT EVEN A DEMOCRAT?” What you’re seeing now is establishment (read also: old centrist) vs these younger upstart Democrats (AOC) that are pushing many of Bernie’s ideas aka “The Correct Ideas.” The tide is turning and the future of the Democratic Party is becoming brighter but that’s a fight I’ll return to AFTER 2020.

You have a point with the black vote. I don’t completely get how that was a thing in 2016 but suspect most Dems not backing him might’ve had a hand in this thought process. Bernie did say that truly moronic thing recently (“Some voters aren’t comfortable with women and people of color”) but that was well after 2016.

His time is done but what happened was WRONG.

[allegro]

Re blacks not supporting Sanders in 2016: It was his own optics. He kept tripping up. Example: He was asked if there should be slave reparations.

See Ta-Nehisi Coates: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ations/424602/

He ran as a Democrat solely because he knew that third parties tank under the Electoral College.

The superdelegates ultimately ALWAYS go with candidate who got the most delegates at the convention, that’s the way it works.

The same thing happened with Obama v Clinton in the primary.

HRC won the popular vote in the 2008 Democratic Primary, but Obama knew how to game the delegates.

Democrats on Twitter are demanding that Sanders not be allowed to run under the Democratic ticket if he runs again, since he just splits the ticket then leaves the Party.



Anyway: The country is HUGELY divided. The Democratic Party is splintered between the liberal centrists and the far left progressives, and the Republican Party has been commandeered by Trump, which is a kind of hybrid white nationalist tea party, while the far right is still there, plus the Evangelicals, and a large group of moderates. Worse, the GOP has taken over a huge number of Governor and Secretary of State positions; with VRA protections gone, this means way more voter suppression.

This whole WALL “crisis” is fear-based because the right is terrified that Latino Catholics will have more Democratic babies. Yet, California Latinos are largely going Independent.

There's zero compromise, way too much drama over stupid shit. The GOP has crowned AOC the DNC's new Jesus, except she's just arrived, then they crucify her with a college dance video from 2011. The Trumpsters are losing their minds over Rashida Tlaib saying "Let's impeach the motherfucker." Never mind that Trump said he grabs women by the pussy.

We are approaching civil war, here. I’m not kidding.

It's throw-a-dart chaos as far as elections go.

[Jinsai]

We are approaching civil war, here. I’m not kidding.

We've been fighting a proxy civil war for a while now. I don't know how this partisan divide will finally start to de-escalate, but I don't see this turning to violence in the streets in a real sort of way.

[allegro]

We've been fighting a proxy civil war for a while now. I don't know how this partisan divide will finally start to de-escalate, but I don't see this turning to violence in the streets in a real sort of way.

It turned to riots in the 60s unexpectedly. I don’t know why we’d be immune to it, now.

[Jinsai]

It turned to riots in the 60s unexpectedly. I don’t know why we’d be immune to it, now.

suppressive technology really... there's a difference between riots and civil war. Though I have been thinking about it since my initial post, and really... I don't know. I actually could see it getting to that point, but it would require Trump to fully place his support behind a "side" in the fight. Maybe he will resort to something that fucking irresponsible when cornered.

I would have called that sort of speculation pure fantasy ten years ago, but things have changed. This is a crazy time we're living in.

[allegro]

but it would require Trump to fully place his support behind a "side" in the fight. Maybe he will resort to something that fucking irresponsible when cornered.

BINGO!

Russian investigation + 2020 election + whatever other shit and he could pull a lot when totally cornered, which could incite his sycophants into rioting or whatever and if Cheeto defends it, then ... maybe not “fire on Fort Sumter.”

More like “Fire in Fort Dumpster.”

[ltrandazzo]

Two things -

I am not interested in rehashing the 2016 election. It happened. The DNC fucked up. The Russians interfered. The Electoral College failed us. Americans showed their sexism loud and clear. Hillary Clinton wasn't popular enough to beat a real estate, pussy grabbing con artist. Said con artist's campaign tried to conspire with Russia. Facebook and Twitter downplayed their involvement in unverified news sources affecting the national discourse while still begging for ad dollars. Hopefully we know better now...?

The DNC has made changes since 2016 and many of them have been for the better. Is the DNC perfect now? Fuck no. They're still making mistakes. However, other organizations are picking up the slack for the DNC's shortfalls and I would encourage everyone who is annoyed with the DNC to throw money and support towards their Indivisible group, Swing Left, etc. and not waste any more time with the DNC (ESPECIALLY the DCCC, because they suck hard). I am, however, happy with the debate schedule the DNC has put forward for their field and believe it gives all candidates a fair shot in their campaigns.

Bonus rant - I haven't watched the Kamala video for her playlist but I will say this - I listened to her interview on NPR for her book and... woof. She was guarded, cagey, and didn't answer any of the questions directly, including questions about her prosecuting record. I am a huge fan of Kamala as she is my personal frontrunner for 2020, but I need more of 2017 and 2018 Kamala than this weird 2019 version who sounds like she's lived in Washington DC for 40 years.

Bonus bonus rant - Julian Castro needs to add some personal reasons why he supports what he's calling for in his campaign strategy because right now, he's coming off as very cookie cutter.

Bonus bonus bonus rant - Still, fuck Tulsi Gabbard.

[allegro]

Bonus rant - I haven't watched the Kamala video for her playlist but I will say this - I listened to her interview on NPR for her book and... woof. She was guarded, cagey, and didn't answer any of the questions directly, including questions about her prosecuting record. I am a huge fan of Kamala as she is my personal frontrunner for 2020, but I need more of 2017 and 2018 Kamala than this weird 2019 version who sounds like she's lived in Washington DC for 40 years.

I personally have several problems with Kamala Harris:

1) She took campaign money from Steven Mnuchin, and she didn't prosecute his bank. She has several other strange and shitty things in her past that don't add up.

2) When she's talking while on the Senate Judiciary, she often makes little sense; she often asks questions that are just - well - useless. Like when she spent nearly 5 minutes grilling Kavanaugh about whether or not he talked to any partner at Trump's attorney's law firm about Mueller. Kavanaugh, not wanting to get into a "lying under oath because I didn't remember" trick bag, said he didn't know who the partners or firm members are at that firm - which is a good answer, because a large D.C. firm could have over 200 attorneys and you could be at a pub with a bunch of attorneys and chatting with one and not even know that he/she is at the same firm where Trump's lawyer was now working. But, Harris persisted, and Kavanaugh asked for hints, and she says hmmm, now it seems like you KNOW and you're not saying, and meanwhile SHE'S USING UP ALL HER SENATE TIME ON THIS USELESS QUESTION. Okay, so what if he did? What is the next question? Go to THAT question. This isn't a TRIAL. It's a JOB INTERVIEW. She's always in "prosecutor" mode, except it's this weird drawn-out grandstanding like she has some secret hidden upcoming Perry Mason moment, but that never arrives.

3) Her voice always sounds like she's standing outside in 20-below weather without a coat. Shivering ugh. Edit: Yes, nitpicking, but P.R. optics are important.

But, as far as "woman of color who might get a lot of support from minorities" then she might be it. I look at who has the best chance of getting large numbers of minority voters to the polls.

Barring all that, I follow Amy Klobuchar on Twitter. SHE did really well at the Kavanaugh hearings. She does really well in the Senate. I really really like her. https://www.vogue.com/article/amy-kl...ator-interview

[theimage13]

Two things -

I am not interested in rehashing the 2016 election. It happened. The DNC fucked up. The Russians interfered. The Electoral College failed us. Americans showed their sexism loud and clear. Hillary Clinton wasn't popular enough to beat a real estate, pussy grabbing con artist. Said con artist's campaign tried to conspire with Russia. Facebook and Twitter downplayed their involvement in unverified news sources affecting the national discourse while still begging for ad dollars. Hopefully we know better now...?=

Point of semantics: Clinton was popular enough to beat a real estate, pussy grabbing con artist. She beat him by three million votes. It's not the voters' fault that the EC is an outdated system that failed on a massive scale. My point here is to try to have some hope. America voted for the first female president; the system just didn't allow her to take her rightful victory.

As for the 2020 general: I will literally vote for a wilting head of iceberg lettuce as long as it's got a (D) next to its name on the ballot. (This is subject to change if, somehow, Donald is off the ballot and I have a civic duty to actually learn the platform and beliefs of whoever takes the nomination. I just don't see a scenario in which Don doesn't run.)

[ltrandazzo]

Point of semantics: Clinton was popular enough to beat a real estate, pussy grabbing con artist. She beat him by three million votes.

Let me be clearer - Hillary was not popular enough to win 80,000 votes she needed in the rust belt. There's a reason I put that point and the point about the Electoral College close together. And again, I don't want to re-litigate 2016, those were two of several dozen reasons why she lost.

Anyway.

[Swykk]

I personally have several problems with Kamala Harris:

1) She took campaign money from Steven Mnuchin, and she didn't prosecute his bank. She has several other strange and shitty things in her past that don't add up.

2) When she's talking while on the Senate Judiciary, she often makes little sense; she often asks questions that are just - well - useless. Like when she spent nearly 5 minutes grilling Kavanaugh about whether or not he talked to any partner at Trump's attorney's law firm about Mueller. Kavanaugh, not wanting to get into a "lying under oath because I didn't remember" trick bag, said he didn't know who the partners or firm members are at that firm - which is a good answer, because a large D.C. firm could have over 200 attorneys and you could be at a pub with a bunch of attorneys and chatting with one and not even know that he/she is at the same firm where Trump's lawyer was now working. But, Harris persisted, and Kavanaugh asked for hints, and she says hmmm, now it seems like you KNOW and you're not saying, and meanwhile SHE'S USING UP ALL HER SENATE TIME ON THIS USELESS QUESTION. Okay, so what if he did? What is the next question? Go to THAT question. This isn't a TRIAL. It's a JOB INTERVIEW. She's always in "prosecutor" mode, except it's this weird drawn-out grandstanding like she has some secret hidden upcoming Perry Mason moment, but that never arrives.

3) Her voice always sounds like she's standing outside in 20-below weather without a coat. Shivering ugh.

1. Yeah, not good. I was not aware of that.

2. I disagree. I loved her toasting his drunken rapey nuts and treating him like the lying little turd he is.

3. Nitpicky

[allegro]

1. Yeah, not good. I was not aware of that.

2. I disagree. I loved her toasting his drunken rapey nuts and treating him like the lying little turd he is.

3. Nitpicky

2. From a legal perspective, she wasted all of her 5 minutes, he never answered, nobody else cared or followed up, and he was confirmed. I would have MUCH rather seen her grill him ON THIS BADLY BOTCHED ABORTION DECISION. The dissent is BLISTERING.

[ltrandazzo]

Kirsten Gillibrand is in - Another non-surprise, especially since she's the member of the "Hell-No" caucus in the Senate who voted with Trump the least out of the rest of her colleagues (other members are Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Bernie Sanders). My main concern about her is the report from a few weeks ago that she was speaking with Wall Street about running, which gives me a little bit of heartburn. But, she's someone who can say she once had an A rating from the NRA until she had a change of heart (she was a Blue Dog in 2008 and moved to liberal policies in 2010 when appointed to replace Hillary Clinton's Senate seat).

She's someone I would have zero problem voting for.

[bobbie solo]

She's fine...now. Says all the right things. Don't fully trust her because of everything you said. Could be alot of bullshit to get past the primaries, then tacts hard to the middle later on. She was a Republican before she was a Democrat. Wouldn't mind voting for her either if she gathered any real steam next year (doubtful), but would always be waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[ltrandazzo]

Kamala Harris is officially in.

[Jinsai]

I actually love that every realistic candidate at this point is female... just hoping we fix that optimistic blindspot to how that plays right into firing up the misogyny in Trump’s rararara base. I’m down to change the world, but right now I’m most concerned with not flushing it down the toilet. This goes double if we’re nominating a woman of color.

So far, Trump’s way of “handling Elizabeth Warren” is “Pocahontas.” The fact that THAT APPROACH has ANY traction with adults is alarming, but it’s way worse if we make that appeal into an elephant in the room that we don’t want to directly address.

[theimage13]

Ugh, fuck KQED and NPR for this horrible attempt at an article.

Five Things to Know About Kamala Harris

Five things. Five things about a candidate for the presidency. And 40% of that list is who she's married to and that she likes to cook.

Jesus. I can't tell whether this is sexist or just stupid, but either way...it's bad.

[Jinsai]

Five things. Five things about a candidate for the presidency. And 40% of that list is who she's married to and that she likes to cook.

Jesus. I can't tell whether this is sexist or just stupid, but either way...it's bad.

It's both.

This is what I'm saying though... to a lot of people out there, a staggeringly large number of people, this is cutting to the chase and giving them the answers they want in the order they want them. In the end, both sides are desperate for fluff. None of these people who joined the Trump cult really looked into whether or not he was actually a good businessman. They bought into a cult of personality lifestyle brand.

And the left is responding in kind, and sadly, they have to. America elected a Twitter president. You can't fight that with someone who doesn't engage on social media, that sticks to issues, that is really all about policy more than telegraphing and messaging. It feels like this next election will be a lot about optics and identity politics. It feels inevitable though.

Really, I just want things to feel moderately sane again. That's really enough for me. Promise me that, and I'll be champing at the bit to vote for you.

[binaryhermit]

I know this isn't exactly on-topic, but look at IL-3. D+6 district, D candidate hasn't ever gotten less than 65% in a general election in his career. Blue wave. R candidate was too nazi for Ted Cruz, really. R got 26% in the general election. Trump getting reelected is plausible.

https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1...471041?lang=en

EDITED TO ADD: I mean, the electoral college is affirmative action for retards, the environment's probably not going to be as blue, and Trump's national socialism is more subtle, he's never publicly said that the holocaust is the biggest blackest lie ever.