11/08/2022, The Midterms, aka build on 2020 aka The Election Thread

[Swykk]

Guys get back on ETS tone police approved topics, like bashing Bernie supporters exclusively by perpetuating mainstream media "Bernie Bros" smear narratives.

A tad bit too far but I have noticed an uptick in this. It’s disappointing.

We’re getting to the territory where things aren’t going so well for Warren. IF she drops out (and we aren’t there yet; there’s time for her to rebound), who would she endorse? I’ve said a million times her and Sanders should join forces. What she shouldn’t do is wait until after the convention like 2016.

I bet Yang endorses Sanders.

I’m dumbstruck as to how Buttigieg hopped the line. Shouldn’t Warren and Biden be far ahead of him? He’s such a slimeball. Was it Shadow? I don’t know. I really don’t.

[tony.parente]

A tad bit too far but I have noticed an uptake in this. It’s disappointing.

We’re getting to the territory where things aren’t going so well for Warren. IF she drops out (and we aren’t there yet; there’s time for her to rebound), who would she endorse? I’ve said a million times her and Sanders should join forces. What she shouldn’t do is wait until after the convention like 2016.

I bet Yang endorses Sanders.

I’m dumbstruck as to how Buttigieg hopped the line. Shouldn’t Warren and Biden be far ahead of him? He’s such a slimeball. Was it Shadow? I don’t know. I really don’t.

I don't want Warren to drop out. I want a head to head Sanders/Warren fight for the nomination so we can pretty much guarantee a win in November. We need Biden g - o - n - e.

[Swykk]

The best way to stomp out Biden is for Sanders and Warren to unite, though.

[tony.parente]

The best way to stomp out Biden is for Sanders and Warren to unite, though.

Or to distract him with nice smelling hair.

[Wolfkiller]

Sanders and Warren would have been great until she turned heel and pulled a top ten anime betrayals on him.

[Swykk]

I didn’t see that as a heel turn on her part but much more of a miscommunication between friends that the media, who do actually hate Sanders, hopped on, twisted and amplified. He was saying America is unlikely to elect a woman (taking into account boomers, MAGA chuds, sexist people in general and of course, the worst people—libertarians). Is it sad and wrong that many Americans feel that way? Fuck yes. Are the media shitty for this behavior and for helping normalize Trump’s increasingly criminal and fascist actions? YES. 100%.
Days later, Sanders and Warren seemed to figure it out so that’s good.

[neorev]

They had no plans to correct Iowa as internal e-mails said they will not correct tally sheets.

Correcting the math on erroneous caucus worksheets is not allowed because it would introduce “personal opinion” into the official record of results, the Iowa Democratic Party lawyer says.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/u....co/PlaCdkO6ZA

They're literally doing this shit in people's face. And it's amazing how these mistakes seem to go in a certain direction.
But wait, Russia.

[cdm]

They're literally doing this shit in people's face. And it's amazing how these mistakes seem to go in a certain direction.
But wait, Russia.

You're trying really hard to push this as a conspiracy but until there is actual evidence that something nefarious is up this is nothing more than a state committee left completely unprepared with no Plan B when Plan A went to shit.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Interesting how the media outlets that can't stop hand-wringing about the need for Sanders-supporters to fall in line if a more centrist candidate gets the nomination literally never tell centrist Democrats that they need to do the same if Sanders gets the nomination. Bernie-Or-Bust-ing (in 2016 and now) is framed as tantamount to supporting fascism and yet you know, you know, that they're going to New York Times the shit out of voters reluctant to support Sanders even against Trump, so yeah I'm looking forward to seeing the people who think Susan Sarandon is more to blame for President Trump than Clinton/Kaine and the DNC write about how voters who can't commit to voting for Sanders against Trump just have 'grave concerns about socialism' or some horseshit like that.

I'm not surprised to see Sanders supporters trying to get the Warren people on their side - if their places were reversed, Warren supporters would absolutely be doing the same thing. A fairly common talking point before these contests was that, between the two, whoever is doing worse after the first few states / before Super Tuesday should drop out and endorse the other to consolidate the progressive wing behind the strongest candidate. And yet Warren's campaign is now trying to downplay these early contests and is intimating that they are in for a long primary battle past Super Tuesday. I'm not here to debate anyone's preference of candidate, but let's be clear-eyed here - things look very bad for her campaign. New Hampshire is one of her neighboring states, which should be an advantage (to the extent that Sanders' victory there has been dismissed by some outlets because it's one of his neighboring states), and she came in fourth, below Klobuchar and neck-and-neck with Biden, who barely even bothered with the state because he knew it'd be such a disaster. It's true that we're only two states in but she needs to turn things around fast to stay viable and gain any momentum, and I don't see that happening in much more diverse Nevada and South Carolina. Sanders has seemed to be the clear favorite of the non-Caucasian electorate thus far (EDIT: granted Iowa and New Hampshire are largely white as hell but again, this illustrates how intentionally reductive the white Bernie Bro smear and the media's talking points RE Sanders are) and I just do not see her performing well in these states, certainly not well enough to electroshock her campaign into life.

Like I said, we're only two states in. But if she stays in this too long with results like these, and Sanders really is the 2nd choice of most Warren supporters, at a certain point all she will be doing is stopping Sanders and helping Buttigieg. Recently I've seen Warren supporters argue that she is the best candidate because she cares more about seeing her policies implemented than getting elected president to do it. If that's true, then she will drop out and endorse Sanders if her campaign continues to flounder. Otherwise her part in this contest will end up looking a lot more like this.

[neorev]

You're trying really hard to push this as a conspiracy but until there is actual evidence that something nefarious is up this is nothing more than a state committee left completely unprepared with no Plan B when Plan A went to shit.

Hard to push? LOL, it is as clear as day. On top of the conflicts of interests and mistakes always falling in one direction and just blatant fuckery.

First the Des Moines poll being held up for the first time ever, then Iowa.

Troy Price was on TV just ahead of the Iowa caucus gloating about how prepared they were for it and there will be no problems, meanwhile for at least a week or more, he clearly knew of the problems with the app as many people reached out to him in regards to the issues with it.

On top of that, if there are clear errors with tallies, why would the Iowa Democrats not fix them? This excuse about influencing the public record is such a load of horseshit.

I've been paying attention to the primaries closely, both in 2016 and 2020. There are so many red flags.

The DNC changing debate rules out of nowhere for Bloomberg.

First, they tried Kamala, she failed.
Then, Biden... failing
Then, Warren... failing

Now, Bloomberg. Their back up plan in case Buttigeig fails. I honestly do not understand how anyone supports Pete. He's like an algorithm in a suit. The Democratic party is trying everything they can to make sure Bernie loses. That includes blatant cheating.

Jesus, just watch NBC. They literally said multiple times that Bernie lost New Hampshire. Keep downplaying Bernie and confusing the public to sway voters. The media's bias is so blatant. Chris Matthews blabbering about being executed in Central Park. You'd think you were watching Alex Jones. And NBC is supposed to be the voice of the left LOL.

I'm sorry, but all this BS about Russia messing with our elections, all evidence points to that you should be more worried about your own parties doing so.

[ltrandazzo]

Troy Price, the Iowa Dem Chairman is stepping down after the chaos in Iowa.

[neorev]

Troy Price, the Iowa Dem Chairman is stepping down after the chaos in Iowa.

Him and Tom Perez should go.

Jeez, I remember during the 2016 primary, Debbie Wasserman Schultz was on TV calling Democratic the grassroots party. Then, when people started question superdelegates and what was going on, she was on TV saying superdelegates were there to stop grassroots movements from the hijacking the party. These two statements happened within the span of a few months from each other.

[cdm]

Sorry but it all smacks of over-confidence and incompetence followed by the worst case scenario. Forgive me for wanting something more concrete than well documented errors (so well documented randos on Twitter were catching mistakes, as you were pointing out) and a bunch of bumblefucks with no contingency plan if the untested app failed.

As for Price saying they were ready...what’s he supposed to say?? “Fuck no we’re not ready” would have played real well. I’m not by any means absolving him of fault, he clearly fucked up here, but his comments leading up to the caucus day are all he could say. He gambled on the app working and lost big. He took responsibility and stepped down. If there was something sinister / criminal I’d love to see it uncovered and whoever responsible should be prosecuted. No such evidence has been uncovered as far as I’m aware.

[neorev]

In New Hampshire, Bernie got more young voters than everybody else combined...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ye9cSP2Qghlm5Y

[neorev]

Sorry but it all smacks of over-confidence and incompetence followed by the worst case scenario. Forgive me for wanting something more concrete than well documented errors (so well documented randos on Twitter were catching mistakes, as you were pointing out) and a bunch of bumblefucks with no contingency plan if the untested app failed.

As for Price saying they were ready...what’s he supposed to say?? “Fuck no we’re not ready” would have played real well. I’m not by any means absolving him of fault, he clearly fucked up here, but his comments leading up to the caucus day are all he could say. He gambled on the app working and lost big. He took responsibility and stepped down. If there was something sinister / criminal I’d love to see it uncovered and whoever responsible should be prosecuted. No such evidence has been uncovered as far as I’m aware.

Local officials knew of the problems with the app going back a week before the caucus and they did nothing about it. They asked state officials to fix it. They were referred to some dedicated staffer who couldn't do anything to help. They had so many complaints, the local officials told them to just call it in. You're telling me a week's notice after multiple complaints was not enough time to figure something out or scrap the app altogether. Hell, they had years to get this right. They never tested the app beforehand, they knew of the problems long beforehand, and let it happen anyway.

Then, for them to go through tallies and even if they did find errors, they wouldn't change them because they're now public record. So that means, anyone can come along and can write whatever numbers they wanted and nothing can be done about it cuz it was entered as public record.

After all the nonsense with Russia and how we need to protect our elections. Four years of Dems shoving down our throats that Russia influenced and hacked out election. You'd think we'd be a bit more prepared than this.

[bobbie solo]

We’re getting to the territory where things aren’t going so well for Warren. IF she drops out (and we aren’t there yet; there’s time for her to rebound), who would she endorse? I’ve said a million times her and Sanders should join forces. What she shouldn’t do is wait until after the convention like 2016.

It's still very early & I suppose things can turn around for a bigger name candidate like Warren, but most likely she is done. Same goes for Biden. Those dismal showings in the first two state just kills any momentum they were hoping to latch onto for Nevada, SC & Super Tuesday. Only non-winners with momentum right now are CloudBootJar & Buttigieg. But Amy apparently is really really low on $ & had barely any staff on the ground in those upcoming states, so we'll see if she makes any headway.

Warren's little speech going after Bernie today was a bummer to hear:



start above at 2:01.

On the surface, you might watch that & think it means she has no intention of endorsing Bernie. That's true for now sadly. I was hoping in my perfect little world she would perhaps drop out before Super Tuesday & endorse Bernie, but this seems to dictate otherwise. But she'll come around eventually if he's still at or near the top. Hillary & Obama ran a VICIOUS campaign against each other in 2008:

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/...r-photo-008667

Yet Hillary eventually endorses her opponent, they buried the hatchet & she went on to do the only thing I kind of liked in her political career...Secretary of State. Same thing could happen here. Bernie's people even looked into whether Warren could serve as both VP & Sec. of Treasury if he won the presidency:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elect...ort/ar-BBZ5yRu

[bobbie solo]

Him and Tom Perez should go.

If it makes you feel any better, if Bernie wins the presidency (or maybe it's earlier, like when you're even just the nominee? Not sure) he will have the ability to mold the DNC how he sees fit, and you can bet Perez and all the other Obama/Clinton-ites below him will be excised. #1 person to be removed after Perez, for me, is Barney Frank.

[versusreality]

I read somewhere that historically, whoever wins both Iowa and New Hampshire becomes the eventual nominee. so, right now that means Bernie's on track. for some reason the media isn't covering this fact, but would rather talk about who came in 3rd and 4th place.

[ltrandazzo]

I read somewhere that historically, whoever wins both Iowa and New Hampshire becomes the eventual nominee. so, right now that means Bernie's on track. for some reason the media isn't covering this fact, but would rather talk about who came in 3rd and 4th place.

Whoever finishes in the top two, which is a juiced fact considering that 2016 was essentially a two-person race. And if you're counting delegates and considering that it's the leader instead, then we're looking at President Pete since he has a one-delegate lead over Bernie right now.

[ltrandazzo]

If it makes you feel any better, if Bernie wins the presidency (or maybe it's earlier, like when you're even just the nominee? Not sure) he will have the ability to mold the DNC how he sees fit, and you can bet Perez and all the other Obama/Clinton-ites below him will be excised. #1 person to be removed after Perez, for me, is Barney Frank.

Commence the circular firing squad? I think Perez could be doing better in some regards but we all demonize the DNC without remembering that they exist as the fundraising arm of the party and are outnumbered by all of the state parties. That's a separate aspect of politics that we don't see play out but only hear about second hand and, man, I'd expect that they're more ruthless than what we see in the news.

Here's a point to remember as we're getting fired up for our faves - we need the supporters of their opponents. Bernie's, Liz's, Pete's, Amy's, Joe's, etc. supporters alone won't be enough to get them elected to president. Now, good news for Bernie in NH - 9 out of 10 Pete supporters said they'd support the eventual nominee while 3 out of 4 of Bernie's said they'd support the eventual nominee. You've got to work on consolidating that support. Andrew Yang's supporters were practically split on if they'd support the Dem or vote for Trump (in some cases, vote for Trump AGAIN), so his endorsement is going to be highly sought after.

We're also just two states in with 48 left. As Biden said, 99.9% of Latinx and African-American voters have not voted yet in this primary so we're getting results from pretty white places. Now, I think his expectation of how much of that percentage he thinks he's gonna get versus the reality of that might be off, but the overall point stands. We'll have a more indicative idea of where the country as a whole is at in this Dem primary after Super Tuesday on March 3rd. I have Ohio on March 17th, so we'll see what it looks like then, but here's my mindset heading to the poll right now -

1. Warren
2. Sanders
3. Klobuchar

[cdm]

On the surface, you might watch that & think it means she has no intention of endorsing Bernie. That's true for now sadly. I was hoping in my perfect little world she would perhaps drop out before Super Tuesday & endorse Bernie, but this seems to dictate otherwise. But she'll come around eventually if he's still at or near the top. Hillary & Obama ran a VICIOUS campaign against each other in 2008:

........

Yet Hillary eventually endorses her opponent, they buried the hatchet & she went on to do the only thing I kind of liked in her political career...Secretary of State. Same thing could happen here. Bernie's people even looked into whether Warren could serve as both VP & Sec. of Treasury if he won the presidency:

Exactly this. She will endorse. It's still early and she has to play to win but when the chips are down she will endorse Bernie. Honestly I think all of them will with the exception of Tulsi.

[ltrandazzo]

I'll make one other point - without the superdelegates weighing in until the convention, there is a possibility that no one will have enough pledged delegates entering the convention in July. No one, including Warren and Biden should be thinking about dropping out right now unless they have substantial money problems, poor organization, or any combination of those plus just absolutely dismal results in other primaries.

Make no mistake - I think Bernie is the frontrunner and the path to him being the nominee is solidifying, but anyone speaking like it's a 100% certainty has no idea what's going to happen next. We should exercise that same caution and work on what we can in our personal circles to increase turnout both now and in November.

[tony.parente]

I'll make one other point - without the superdelegates weighing in until the convention, there is a possibility that no one will have enough pledged delegates entering the convention in July. No one, including Warren and Biden should be thinking about dropping out right now unless they have substantial money problems, poor organization, or any combination of those plus just absolutely dismal results in other primaries.

Make no mistake - I think Bernie is the frontrunner and the path to him being the nominee is solidifying, but anyone speaking like it's a 100% certainty has no idea what's going to happen next. We should exercise that same caution and work on what we can in our personal circles to increase turnout both now and in November.

It's weird, this is the first election I can remember where I haven't absolutely LOATHED a single mainstream democratic candidate in the running for president. Joe is fuckin weird but I don't hate the guy, and buttgag has room for improvement but he's not horrific either. I'm actually super excited with whoever we end up with in november, I don't see a single loser getting the nomination even if the primaries were rigged like last time. Only the difference here is we don't have any fucking losers on the bill like last time (clinton).

[allegate]

Exactly this. She will endorse. It's still early and she has to play to win but when the chips are down she will endorse Bernie. Honestly I think all of them will with the exception of Tulsi.

I don't know what to believe anymore. Part of me thinks she'll go into the voting both in November shouting to everyone who will listen that Bernie is a horrible person.

[ltrandazzo]

I don't know what to believe anymore. Part of me thinks she'll go into the voting both in November shouting to everyone who will listen that Bernie is a horrible person.

Are we talking about Hillary?

[cdm]

Part of me thinks she'll go into the voting both in November shouting to everyone who will listen that Bernie is a horrible person.

If nothing else she knows the alternative and we can't take 4 more years of it.

[allegate]

Are we talking about Hillary?

good point, I lost track of what pronouns were talking about which person. yes, I believe Hillary will continue to go against Bernie even when it's clear he's the front runner, or even the actual nominee.

[tony.parente]

good point, I lost track of what pronouns were talking about which person. yes, I believe Hillary will continue to go against Bernie even when it's clear he's the front runner, or even the actual nominee.

That's because she's still mad shes possibly the worst democratic nominee for president in the last 20 years.

[neorev]

Personally, the only candidate I see having a chance at beating Trump is Bernie. I just try to imagine these candidates going up against Trump on stage. As much of a dumpster fire Trump is, he'll just make Joe look like the senile guy, Pete like the inexperienced manchild, and Warren as Pocahontas. Even if I like these people, I just try to picture what they will look like on stage going up against Trump. Bernie seems to be the only one who can fight him on facts and his record. But that's just me.

I do loathe one candidate... Bloomberg.

[allegro]

It's weird, this is the first election I can remember where I haven't absolutely LOATHED a single mainstream democratic candidate in the running for president.

I'm in the same boat, I don't dislike any of them in the front right now. I'm SO undecided, I'm really torn, I told my husband that I have this gut desire to skip the Primary vote on March 17th and just go with whomever everybody else wants for the General. I dunno, I'll see who's left by mid-March because we vote early.

I really believe that ANY of these Democratic candidates can beat Trump. ANY. I believe the electrified animated corpse of Lincoln can beat Trump, so long as Democrats get up and vote (and said Lincoln corpse runs as a Democrat).

I'm worried about the Presidency, but I'm kind of surprised that nobody in this thread is talking about the Senate race. Without the Dems taking the Senate, NOTHING a Democratic President attempts will happen. Nothing. It'd be even WORSE if the Dems can't keep the House.

Because of the Republican Senate and Trump, Trump has installed (and the Republican Senate majority has confirmed) 187 judges to the federal bench. That's 1 in 4 U.S. Circuit Court judges. And nearly all of them are REALLY young, too. It's a lifetime job. And, of course, they're all crazy conservative.