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Thread: 11/3/2020 - President, Senate, House, LOCAL

  1. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    This isn’t the first time this clusterfuck has happened in Iowa. Caucuses are THAT fucked up.

    Iowa is a totally-white Republican State, Democrats should not waste one single fuck or carbon unit on it. Democratic candidates should make South Carolina the 1st of the primaries.
    Can't argue with the white part, but the majority of my family is from Iowa, and they're completely split politically. And none of them like the same candidate. It's not as "blow out" Republican as it might seem from the outside. Can't really argue with SC being a better starting place, though.

  2. #1022
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    Welp, they're starting to report.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...wa-caucus.html

  3. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    At least Buttgag won though right?
    Sick about this.

    Honestly, you don't even need a conspiracy theory. Buttigieg's campaign got the last poll out of Iowa from the Des Moines Register, which showed him in 3rd, buried days out from the caucuses, and last night he declared victory with 0% reporting. Whatever the results actually are, he basically decided they didn't matter and went about trying to siphon whatever momentum could come out of this colossal clusterfuck. It's not even a sure thing that he came in 2nd yet (the results currently available indicate that it's very possible he places beneath Warren) and he's already fundraising off his "victory."

    This is dire shit. Buttigieg is basically the worst case scenario for a Democratic ticket. As I've been saying for a while now, even Biden is preferable. I mean at least Biden has support from communities of color. Pete Buttigieg polls basically underwater outside of white people (and he really fucking should) and nominating him would just be telling non-caucasian communities that we take their support as a given and expect them to suck it up and vote for someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about them. Not to mention the fact that his chances of winning are ridiculously low. The entire Iowa caucus event we witnessed perfectly embodies why people are so done with the self-interested, convoluted, hopelessly incompetent mess that encompasses the modern Democratic party and most of its figureheads, and people like Buttigieg are part of the problem. I don't think anything besides just wanting to be president is driving him and nothing will change for the better under his leadership. He's exactly the candidate that the organization that has spent the last twenty four hours embarrassing itself wants, and I have zero faith in him winning the general.

    Even if you don't want to get out the tin-foil-hat, it's hard to deny that his senior strategist being married to the CEO of the dark money / superPAC organization that funded Shadow Inc (that is actually the fucking name), the firm behind this disastrous caucus app, is sketchy as fuck. And beyond that, an organization that thinks paying huge figures of money to a tech firm to design a vote tallying app is a good idea is hopelessly out of touch with reality and just basic common sense. Like honestly, I hope "Bernie isn't even a real Democrat" people realize what a stupid insult that is by now.

  4. #1024
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    So the Democratic parties current, incomplete numbers line up with NYT's original numbers, except their partial numbers put buttigieg ahead, where NYT had Bernie at a win. Surprising

  5. #1025
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    I usually hate these "begging for a job" twits but by god, this one is detailed.

  6. #1026
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    Fyre Fest, Theranos, Olivia Jade, LOL.

    Brilliant.

  7. #1027
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    “When a light is shining, Shadows are a constant companion,” it says. “We see ourselves as building a long-term, side-by-side ‘Shadow’ of tech infrastructure to the Democratic Party and the progressive community at large.”

    Is a real, actual quote that perfectly encapsulates the lack of self awareness in the democrat establishment

  8. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    lack of self awareness in the democrat establishment
    ^ That describes still using an archaic caucus (vs. primary vote) in 2020.

    To accuse the Iowa caucuses of being “rigged” right out of the gate is to instill lack of trust in a system that isn’t even the same system that the vast majority of voters will be using across the country. And, it’s echoing GOP talking points about the DNC. Great job, folks. The Russians are high-fiving, “mission accomplished.” Trump will surely use these points, later.

    How do the Iowa caucuses work?
    Last edited by allegro; 02-04-2020 at 10:24 PM.

  9. #1029
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    I don't know if I'm outright claiming it was rigged. I'm not a tin foil hat kind of guy. I don't think weed is cures cancer. I don't think vaccines cause autism, I don't think flouride is a mind control drug, I don't believe in chem trails, I don't think bush did 9/11. But fuck if this one doesn't shake that skeptic out of me.

    Here's the *baseline* scenario:

    The DNC, victims of one of the most notorious cases of election fraud on our countries history, staked their first major election after that failure on an experimental app during an already opaque process. The app is developed by a *brand new software company," that not only is not run by software developers, but is also run by people who ran that notorious failure of a campaign and backed by *two different* candidates on the race. They choose to call this company Shadow, because none of these people have seen a spy movie and shadows are delightful I guess.

    That's just how it starts. They push this app on the geriatric leaders of these caucuses and when those leaders tell them in the last few weeks that the app has problems and isn't working, they are essentially ignored. They didn't even *test* this app.

    Then after at least one major publication has seemingly found a winner, the party throws up their hands and says they have to reboot the whole process and comes back with a laughably small fraction of the vote, and characterizes, even what on their terms is actually a tie, they characterize as a victory against a candidate that just about everyone of any political persuasion believes has already been docked over enough by this country.

    So all of that is objectively true. It's just a matter of it this appalling stupidity was intentional or not.
    Last edited by Wretchedest; 02-04-2020 at 09:11 PM.

  10. #1030
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    Let's not forget the DNC also tilted the 2016 primary in one person's favor. Voter purges, workers claiming votes being changed in multiple states, voters being given wrong ballots, voters having their party affiliation changed without their approval leaving them unable to vote, all DNC donations being funneled thru Hillary's campaign, last minute rule changes that took delegates from Bernie, the media including superdelegate votes in their results before they actually even voted. The DNC was sued by donors.

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    They push this app on the geriatric leaders of these caucuses and when those leaders tell them in the last few weeks that the app has problems and isn't working, they are essentially ignored. They didn't even *test* this app.

    Then after at least one major publication has seemingly found a winner, the party throws up their hands and says they have to reboot the whole process and comes back with a laughably small fraction of the vote, and characterizes, even what on their terms is actually a tie, they characterize as a victory against a candidate that just about everyone of any political persuasion believes has already been docked over enough by this country.

    So all of that is objectively true. It's just a matter of it this appalling stupidity was intentional or not.
    First, age of the app user had NOTHING to do with this. Many if not MOST of these app users were not geezers. The problem was simple cellular overload, which is why it was a bad idea in the first place. Voting machines have similar issues of not having been tested, etc. but they’re not a conspiracy; they’re just a typical example of a good salesperson selling some tech crap to some morons in an election board, which is an ACTUAL issue.

    Second, there is no “vote,” here. These are DELEGATES. This is a CAUCUS.

    Quote Originally Posted by neorev View Post
    Let's not forget the DNC also tilted the 2016 primary in one person's favor. Voter purges, workers claiming votes being changed in multiple states, voters being given wrong ballots, voters having their party affiliation changed without their approval leaving them unable to vote, all DNC donations being funneled thru Hillary's campaign, last minute rule changes that took delegates from Bernie, the media including superdelegate votes in their results before they actually even voted. The DNC was sued by donors.
    You’re forgetting something:

    The United States of America is a Republic, so each state has its own government with its own constitution and its own election, with its own election committee run by its own Secretary of State and Governor, each of which are elected by voters.

    Bernie Sanders agrees to be part of the DNC system when he runs as a Democrat. He could run as an Independent. Or under the Green Party. Or as a Libertarian.

    But his voters making the election seem suspicious only makes other voters not want to vote, which gives those votes to the opposition. It elects Trump. Also, it neglects to acknowledge ACTUAL problems like active racial voting discrimination that is happening everywhere. It disregards POC who are actively blocked from voting in so many ways.
    Last edited by allegro; 02-04-2020 at 11:28 PM.

  12. #1032
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    I don't think anything your suggesting relieves the DNC or the Iowa dnc of deciding to

    -take an experimental step in a volatile time

    -rely on inexperienced people to execute that experiment

    -ignore people who told them it wasn't working


    Those choice are all inconceivable to me

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    Those choice are all inconceivable to me
    The Iowa Dems made this decision and, yup, they thought it was good and it was stupid. They sold the SAME app to the idiots in Nevada for their caucus! “Look! It’s so much easier than calling on the phone! You use your phone, but it’s an app and it’s CELLULAR!”

    Ugh. Cell phones don’t even work at a fucking crowded concert.

    But stupid does not equal grassy knoll.

    Further: It really does NOT MATTER who won in Iowa. Not one fucking bit. Never did. POC have been pissed about Iowa for months.

    Iowa only matters to Mayor Pete, who will be relegated to “who?” after Super Tuesday.
    Last edited by allegro; 02-05-2020 at 11:59 AM.

  14. #1034
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    Oh, Iowa. I don't miss you.


  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    The Iowa DNC made this decision and, yup, they thought it was good and it was stupid. They sold the SAME app to the idiots in Nevada for their caucus! “Look! It’s so much easier than calling on the phone! You use your phone, but it’s an app and it’s CELLULAR!”

    Ugh. Cell phones don’t even work at a fucking crowded concert.

    But stupid does not equal grassy knoll.

    Further: It really does NOT MATTER who won in Iowa. Not one fucking bit. Never did. POC have been pissed about Iowa for months.

    Iowa only matters to Mayor Pete, who will be relegated to “who?” after Super Tuesday.
    I said, in my original post, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but they sure as fuck made a long series of pretty specific choices that are going to give the people that do think a lot to chew on.

    And it is so stupid it is definitely a little easier for me to understand it as intentional than to conceive it as a series of mistakes by people who's job it is to understand these things.

    And let's say, hypothetically Pete does get the nomination, he's more tainted than ever.

  16. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah K View Post
    Oh, Iowa. I don't miss you.

    Yeah, I saw that on Twitter; like, ugh, where has that woman BEEN? Wtf. She’s just NOW learning that Pete is married to a dude, but then she’s putting all that Bible ‘splainin’ on that poor young woman who’s just trying to do her Pete Caucus job. Ugh. Props to that young woman. I’d be like “BECAUSE THE BIBLE AIN’T THE CONSTITUTION YOU CRAZY COW, I ALREADY GOT YOUR CARD, BYE BITCH!”

  17. #1037
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wretchedest View Post
    I said, in my original post, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but they sure as fuck made a long series of pretty specific choices that are going to give the people that do think a lot to chew on.

    And it is so stupid it is definitely a little easier for me to understand it as intentional than to conceive it as a series of mistakes by people who's job it is to understand these things.

    And let's say, hypothetically Pete does get the nomination, he's more tainted than ever.
    Mayor Pete is a wine cave sleazo.

    I used to like him, and I give him credit for breaking LGBTQ barriers, but he has to go.

  18. #1038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon Blackfire View Post
    Sick about this.

    Honestly, you don't even need a conspiracy theory. Buttigieg's campaign got the last poll out of Iowa from the Des Moines Register, which showed him in 3rd, buried days out from the caucuses, and last night he declared victory with 0% reporting. Whatever the results actually are, he basically decided they didn't matter and went about trying to siphon whatever momentum could come out of this colossal clusterfuck. It's not even a sure thing that he came in 2nd yet (the results currently available indicate that it's very possible he places beneath Warren) and he's already fundraising off his "victory."

    This is dire shit. Buttigieg is basically the worst case scenario for a Democratic ticket. As I've been saying for a while now, even Biden is preferable. I mean at least Biden has support from communities of color. Pete Buttigieg polls basically underwater outside of white people (and he really fucking should) and nominating him would just be telling non-caucasian communities that we take their support as a given and expect them to suck it up and vote for someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about them. Not to mention the fact that his chances of winning are ridiculously low. The entire Iowa caucus event we witnessed perfectly embodies why people are so done with the self-interested, convoluted, hopelessly incompetent mess that encompasses the modern Democratic party and most of its figureheads, and people like Buttigieg are part of the problem. I don't think anything besides just wanting to be president is driving him and nothing will change for the better under his leadership. He's exactly the candidate that the organization that has spent the last twenty four hours embarrassing itself wants, and I have zero faith in him winning the general.

    Even if you don't want to get out the tin-foil-hat, it's hard to deny that his senior strategist being married to the CEO of the dark money / superPAC organization that funded Shadow Inc (that is actually the fucking name), the firm behind this disastrous caucus app, is sketchy as fuck. And beyond that, an organization that thinks paying huge figures of money to a tech firm to design a vote tallying app is a good idea is hopelessly out of touch with reality and just basic common sense. Like honestly, I hope "Bernie isn't even a real Democrat" people realize what a stupid insult that is by now.
    Buttigieg hasn't officially won Iowa, Sanders could still win, and Sanders is sure to win in NH. I'm really not concerned that Buttigieg will win the nomination if he comes in first or second in Iowa.

  19. #1039
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    It does Bernie Sanders zero favors to keep barfing up the same arguments from 2016 and even he himself has said so when he called out Zephyr Teachout for fanning the flames with incendiary language last month about Joe Biden. The Sanders campaign has been actively trying to suppress nonsense talk like that and the same baseless conspiracy theories that were flying all over the internet last night from people about what was happening in Iowa.

    A few key facts for everyone before this argument continues:

    1. The DNC does NOT run state primaries - that is up to the state parties themselves.
    2. The Iowa Democratic Party was responsible for the nonsense last night by not ensuring that they had taught this app to all of their caucus chairs, captains, etc. before yesterday. No one should have been downloading the app for the first time yesterday.
    3. This is not the same DNC from 2016. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz was the chair who was replaced by Donna Brazile before Tom Perez was elected as chair in 2017. He had two prominent opponents - Keith Ellison and Pete Buttigieg. Regurgitating the 2016 talking point about the DNC being out to get Bernie has zero merit this time around.
    4. The DNC is very fucking far from perfect, but this process has been handled to the best extent that it could be given the 82 candidates running. It wasn't perfect or ideal, but the effort to try and make it that has been there.

    Fucking educate yourselves on some of the simple facts and chronology out there. It's not difficult.

  20. #1040
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    Look, you guys are preaching to the choir on the way that these narratives hurt us in the long run and have hurt us in the past. I'm somewhere in this thread ranting these same things.

    The people who made the decisions around this app should have considered how impactful that narrative is and the way they're playing into it. Because they cannot just ignore it and pretend it isn't important.

  21. #1041
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    I think it’s important to point out that while the majority of candidates have disability platforms, zero of them have used the software accessibility failure that led to that poll not being released to highlight that universal design applies to all aspects of life, not just physical spaces.

  22. #1042
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardp View Post
    Last night just solidified another 4 years I think.

    It's fucking embarrassing.
    Nah. With the way the news cycle is, and the fact that Iowa isn't a be all/end all arbiter of anything generally, this will be forgotten and moved on from easily as long as no more screw ups like this happen. Nevada has, for example, already said they're not going to use the app. I imagine the app is DOA completely now.

    Remember when they said Bernie's heart attack meant he was done? That didn't matter. This won't matter to people that aren't plugged in either. And anyone who IS plugged in already has their mind made up anyway most likely, so who cares.

  23. #1043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon Blackfire View Post
    Sick about this.

    Honestly, you don't even need a conspiracy theory. Buttigieg's campaign got the last poll out of Iowa from the Des Moines Register, which showed him in 3rd, buried days out from the caucuses, and last night he declared victory with 0% reporting. Whatever the results actually are, he basically decided they didn't matter and went about trying to siphon whatever momentum could come out of this colossal clusterfuck. It's not even a sure thing that he came in 2nd yet (the results currently available indicate that it's very possible he places beneath Warren) and he's already fundraising off his "victory."

    This is dire shit. Buttigieg is basically the worst case scenario for a Democratic ticket. As I've been saying for a while now, even Biden is preferable. I mean at least Biden has support from communities of color. Pete Buttigieg polls basically underwater outside of white people (and he really fucking should) and nominating him would just be telling non-caucasian communities that we take their support as a given and expect them to suck it up and vote for someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about them. Not to mention the fact that his chances of winning are ridiculously low. The entire Iowa caucus event we witnessed perfectly embodies why people are so done with the self-interested, convoluted, hopelessly incompetent mess that encompasses the modern Democratic party and most of its figureheads, and people like Buttigieg are part of the problem. I don't think anything besides just wanting to be president is driving him and nothing will change for the better under his leadership. He's exactly the candidate that the organization that has spent the last twenty four hours embarrassing itself wants, and I have zero faith in him winning the general.

    Even if you don't want to get out the tin-foil-hat, it's hard to deny that his senior strategist being married to the CEO of the dark money / superPAC organization that funded Shadow Inc (that is actually the fucking name), the firm behind this disastrous caucus app, is sketchy as fuck. And beyond that, an organization that thinks paying huge figures of money to a tech firm to design a vote tallying app is a good idea is hopelessly out of touch with reality and just basic common sense. Like honestly, I hope "Bernie isn't even a real Democrat" people realize what a stupid insult that is by now.
    Buttigieg, if you trust the current polling, has zero chance after Iowa. Does not look like he will take any of the next 3 states nor much of anything on Super Tuesday. He has no base of support in any specific constituency, has no clear message, is purposefully vague about much of what he would do in office, etc. Don't worry about him.

  24. #1044
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    I don't know. If Biden makes a habit of whiffing and never picks up steam (obviously far from a given but the man is, historically speaking, horrible at running for president) Buttigieg is primed to become the centrist standard-bearer, unless the KlobuCharge commences.

    In regard to all the skepticism about what has been happening in Iowa getting into conspiracy theory territory, look, everyone knows what the stakes of where this is ultimately going to are. We all want to get rid of Trump and I know I'll end up voting for whoever it ends up being that's against him. But I think we can all agree this whole thing has been an unambiguous, inexcusable disaster and I think people have a right to be concerned and frustrated by what is happening without being told that just expressing those concerns and frustrations is irresponsible regurgitation of Republican or Russian propaganda.

    Anyway I just checked the results and after basically half a day the Dems have released new results that move the percentage of districts reporting from 62% to...71%. So I guess we'll know who won by Friday, maybe?

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    each day that goes by, I see Bloomberg somehow becoming the nominee. don't know why. just a feeling.

  26. #1046
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    this looks so bad from aboard i cant even begin, the contempt European press have for the DNC...its going to start effecting the US geopoliticaly soon.

    the rot of that institution is sad its been so vital to the US for 200 years. but its become a geopolitical risk now

  27. #1047
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    The DNC has nothing to do with a state caucus.

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    I'm actually kinda shocked that Biden did as bad as he did. Wtf happened there?

  30. #1050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantra View Post
    I'm actually kinda shocked that Biden did as bad as he did. Wtf happened there?
    He's a dork.

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