Top 217 Directors and Films:/ Let's Argue: presented by Eleven and Alowishus

[elevenism]

The point of the thread is to just discuss films that you think are the greatest ever made. You can make a list, you can tell me why you think the films I like are shit, you can just talk about one film. Anything you like.

The idea was to take some of the better discussions we were having over in the horror thread and open it up to all kinds of films.-@burmotherfucker!

Of course, we can also make top lists of directors, films in general, films from one genre, DIRECTORS of films from one genre.
it will likely be a drifty, drafty thread, but I thought it would give rise to multiple interesting conversations, and perhaps, have more staying power than a top five this or top.ten that- eleven.

[burnmotherfucker!]

Well, @burnmotherfucker! here we are.

I actually did it.

Let's get this thing rolling.

pm inbox full guy

My top 10 directors in no particular order. Subject to change , and I'll include my favorite film of theirs to be my top 10 films.

1. Ingmar Bergman (Persona)
2. David Lynch (Mulholland Drive)
3. Stanley Kubrick (The Shining)
4. Andrei Tarkovsky (Stalker)
5. Wong Kar Wai (Fallen Angels)
6. Richard Linklater (Before Sunrise/Sunset)
7. Quentin Tarantino (Kill Bill)
8. Akira Kurosawa (Ikiru)
9. David Cronenberg (Crash)
10. Lars Von Trier (The House That Jack Built)

I'll have to get to the other 207 later, because I already have another 10 I could throw out there. This might need to be a long thread haha.

[Zur En Arrh]

I'm not sure I understand the premise. Do we post our top ten fav director's? Our top 217? Or does one person post ten and then the next another ten separate from the previous person?

[burnmotherfucker!]

I'm not sure I understand the premise. Do we post our top ten fav director's? Our top 217? Or does one person post ten and then the next another ten separate from the previous person?

That's just what I choose to do to kick it off. The point of the thread is to just discuss films that you think are the greatest ever made. You can make a list, you can tell me why you think the films I like are shit, you can just talk about one film. Anything you like.

The idea was to take some of the better discussions we were having over in the horror thread and open it up to all kinds of films. At least I think so, what say you @elevenism ?

[marodi]

Originally Posted by burnmotherfucker!
That's just what I choose to do to kick it off. The point of the thread is to just discuss films that you think are the greatest ever made. You can make a list, you can tell me why you think the films I like are shit, you can just talk about one film. Anything you like.

The idea was to take some of the better discussions we were having over in the horror thread and open it up to all kinds of films. At least I think so, what say you @elevenism?



See, I've been thinking about something like that for a long time but I'm very lazy. Since this thread exist, may I suggest using (as a starting point of discussion) the 1001 Movies You Must See Before You Die? It's different than the best movies of all time and there is plenty to talk about.

You can find the list (as up to date as can be) here: https://www.listchallenges.com/1001-...re-you-die-all
All you have to do is check the ones you have seen and at the end, it will tell you how many you have. My stats: 249/1,159 or 21%.

If you want to discuss directors, Ranker has a great list too, in case you come up short on names:https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-l...rs-of-all-time

Or we could do something else entirely.

[burnmotherfucker!]

@marodi

That's a good idea and a nice list for reference.

I would also say it's worth taking a look at BFI's new top 100 they just released. They update the list every ten years and the new one just came out. https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sou...films-all-time

And lists are great, because you can see what someone's tastes in film are quickly.

But also, if anyone just wants to discuss a particular film feel free to do that as well and explain why you think it's great or not great etc.

[Zur En Arrh]

That's just what I choose to do to kick it off. The point of the thread is to just discuss films that you think are the greatest ever made. You can make a list, you can tell me why you think the films I like are shit, you can just talk about one film. Anything you like.

The idea was to take some of the better discussions we were having over in the horror thread and open it up to all kinds of films. At least I think so, what say you @elevenism?

Yeah no, your list is dope. It's very close to mine. I especially love your Trier pick. As much as antichrist, nym and melancolia are amazing I think the house that jack built is a stunning masterpiece that might just be the very best film of the century so far....

I also prefer mirror to stalker but I understand those may be interchangeable to fans. I'll post my list when I have more time...

[burnmotherfucker!]

Yeah no, your list is dope. It's very close to mine. I especially love your Trier pick. As much as antichrist, nym and melancolia are amazing I think the house that jack built is a stunning masterpiece that might just be the very best film of the century so far....

I also prefer mirror to stalker but I understand those may be interchangeable to fans. I'll post my list when I have more time...

Yes! This is why we need this thread, haha.

If I'm being honest I got to #10 on my list and I thought "ok, let me think of something controversial" lol. But yeah, I do really love that film. You think you know what you're in for until, what? That first section where Jack starts talking about architecture? THEN I was like, ok I'm all in on this one now. And then it had one of the most memorable closing sequences I can remember in a long time. I don't think it beats out Mulholland for me. But I can't be mad if someone thinks it's the best of the century so far. I will say, I was never bored for one second when watching it, that's for sure.

So, you like Mirror better than Stalker?

Confession time. I've yet to see Mirror. Believe me it is on my list. But I already know. I know because of Solaris and Stalker that it won't just be something I pop on one night to cross off a list. I'll watch it and then I'll think about it for a week. And then a year later I'll know how I feel about it. That's what makes Tarkovsky so great. His stuff lives on in your mind the way only truly great films can.

[elevenism]

I'm not sure I understand the premise. Do we post our top ten fav director's? Our top 217? Or does one person post ten and then the next another ten separate from the previous person?

I mean, yeah. What @burnmotherfucker! said, and @marodi reiterated.

I meant to clarify, but something came up.

[Jon]

Confession time. I've yet to see Mirror. Believe me it is on my list. But I already know. I know because of Solaris and Stalker that it won't just be something I pop on one night to cross off a list. I'll watch it and then I'll think about it for a week. And then a year later I'll know how I feel about it. That's what makes Tarkovsky so great. His stuff lives on in your mind the way only truly great films can.

I'd say as far as "best", you could pick any of the 70s Tarkovsky and be "correct". Mirror is for sure something you'll be thinking about for more than a week after you watch it. I used to say Solaris was my favorite, but now it alternates between his 70s output.

While we're on the subject of Slow Cinema, I'll throw out a few directors that probably won't get nominated by anyone else.

Theodoros Angelopoulos (The Travelling Players)
Michelangelo Antonioni (Red Desert)
Hu Bo (An Elephant Sitting Still; he commited suicide shortly before the movie premiered)
Lav Diaz (Norte, the End of History)
Ryusuke Hamaguchi (Happy Hour)
Tsai Ming-liang (Stray Dogs, Rebels of the Neon God)
Béla Tarr (Werckmeister Harmonies, The Turin Horse)
Apichatpong Weerasethakul (Cemetery of Splendour)

[burnmotherfucker!]

Thanks for the recommendations. I think the only one I am familiar with is The Turin Horse.

But this post made me think of something that is related to this thread in a way. What even is "slow cinema"? To me, it's a bad term. Instead we should refer to modern hollywood films as "ADHD movies." Take a "slow" film like Solaris. By the time you get out of that three hour movie you have lived that man's life. The important parts of it at least. Is that really slow? I don't care if they ride a track car in Stalker for 5 minutes, it puts you in their positions.

I guess what I'm getting at is, when did the entire american industry just decide that every single fucking movie they crank out needed to be "the hero's journey" or else it isn't getting made? And how does the public not become as tired as I am by such films? Is the artform dying or does it only live in the art houses and international markets now?

For example. I just saw Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. Ok. It's fine. But WHY is it number 1 or 2 on everyone's best of the year list? How is it possible that a movie like that is the standard in 2022? Can we not dig deeper?

It's not that I think it was bad. It's just that, what is it really saying? That we should live our best lives and be honest with our families and be kind to people? OK, good message and all. But also, thank you captain obvious! I mean, don't we know these things already?

Then contrast that with something like Stalker, or Wong Kar Wai's Fallen Angels. Those films leave me with an understanding of humanity that I can't really even put into words. They just leave me with a feeling that I recognize. Idk, am I the only one that feels this way?

[Jinsai]

I'm not sure how the list would work, but I think my favorite cinematic thing is Ran by Akira Kurosawa. It's just perfect. Its drama is offset by the Shakespearean seriousness, and he made it when he was going blind, but it's....

[Zur En Arrh]

Yes! This is why we need this thread, haha.

If I'm being honest I got to #10 on my list and I thought "ok, let me think of something controversial" lol. But yeah, I do really love that film. You think you know what you're in for until, what? That first section where Jack starts talking about architecture? THEN I was like, ok I'm all in on this one now. And then it had one of the most memorable closing sequences I can remember in a long time. I don't think it beats out Mulholland for me. But I can't be mad if someone thinks it's the best of the century so far. I will say, I was never bored for one second when watching it, that's for sure.

So, you like Mirror better than Stalker?

Confession time. I've yet to see Mirror. Believe me it is on my list. But I already know. I know because of Solaris and Stalker that it won't just be something I pop on one night to cross off a list. I'll watch it and then I'll think about it for a week. And then a year later I'll know how I feel about it. That's what makes Tarkovsky so great. His stuff lives on in your mind the way only truly great films can.

To be clear I love stalker but mirror is tarkovsky at his most poetic. Almost a mediation of cold war trauma. It's a very subtextual film that everyone will get something different. It's also a film you can see at different times of your life and get new things..*edit* just 're read your post and saw the question you asked* yes I like mirror better than stalker. However I don't reject anyone liking stalker better. They're both masterpieces and I think of it as Stalker=Spiral and Mirrior =Fragile.situation

Jack is a very difficult film. It feels like trier doubling down on his meanness. It's also very much a dantes inferno esq redemption film however Jack is so rotten redemption may not be possible. I love the film however it's not for everyone. It's a very difficult film. Much darker than even antichriist if that was even fucking possible.

I recently watched Aria asters midsommar directors cut. After several days I'm still thinking about it.. It hit me right in the spot.. That existential spot.. After the trauma of the pandemic it's just got me in that vulnerable state where I feel like crying yet I don't understand why. That film just kicked my ass. I never took hereditary or midsommar serious, I thought they were like the formulaic modern horror films like the conjuring then I saw the beau is afraid trailer and realised I may have overlooked Ari Aster..yup! That's exactly what happaned.. Good lord!! Midsommar is just so fucking good. Watched it on netflix then read there was a directors cut. Purchased it from A24s site and Bob's your uncle.. Excsllent!!

[botley]

^ You have encouraged me to finally seek out Mirror. I have Stalker on Blu-ray, and for the longest time I have enjoyed a pirated CD containing the soundtrack of both films, but when I can give it the attention necessary I'll have to delve into Mirror.

[BRoswell]

OK, good message and all. But also, thank you captain obvious! I mean, don't we know these things already?

*takes a look at the world*

Guess not. Also, the film was about more than just being nice and honest. It was about guilt, repression, generational differences and traditionalism, existentialism, FOMO, etc. There was a lot going on in that film. I also related to it on a personal level since I have been in the same situation as the daughter in the film. Spoiler: I shed a few tears during the scene near the end where she and her mother are talking in the parking lot about the pain she feels being around her, because I've had a similar conversation with my own mother before. The fact that Daniels were able to tap into some genuine emotions in a film with butt plugs and hot dog fingers is pretty wild to me. I think people liked it because it walks that fine line that a lot of films can't manage, especially in this day and age of endless Marvel sequels: being entertaining and fun and actually having something to say.

As far as other ways to tell human stories: I like films like Stalker too, but...that's not the only way to do it. That's just the way that happens to work for you, and that's fair, but personally, I don't want every film to be like that. Variety is the spice of life.

[burnmotherfucker!]

*takes a look at the world*

Guess not. Also, the film was about more than just being nice and honest. It was about guilt, repression, generational differences and traditionalism, existentialism, FOMO, etc. There was a lot going on in that film. I also related to it on a personal level since I have been in the same situation as the daughter in the film. Spoiler: I shed a few tears during the scene near the end where she and her mother are talking in the parking lot about the pain she feels being around her, because I've had a similar conversation with my own mother before. The fact that Daniels were able to tap into some genuine emotions in a film with butt plugs and hot dog fingers is pretty wild to me. I think people liked it because it walks that fine line that a lot of films can't manage, especially in this day and age of endless Marvel sequels: being entertaining and fun and actually having something to say.

As far as other ways to tell human stories: I like films like Stalker too, but...that's not the only way to do it. That's just the way that happens to work for you, and that's fair, but personally, I don't want every film to be like that. Variety is the spice of life.

Fair enough. I'm not saying people shouldn't like it. Its fine. It just depresses me that something with that ordinary of a story is what is heralded as the best film of the year. I agree it touches on the things you mention, but it does so in an obvious way. I didn't learn anything from it that I didn't already know.

Glad you connected to the scene in the parking lot with the daughter. But that exact scene is why I found the story in the film to be yet another hollywood wash, rinse, repeat story. When my friend showed it to me, there is a scene at the very beginning where the mother does not tell the daughter what is really on her mind in the parking lot. I turned to my friend and said that the film would resolve with the mother learning she can't do that. And it did. Again, it's fine. But I shouldn't be able to call the best film of the year when I'm only a few minutes in.

And I'm definitely not saying everything needs to be like Stalker. In fact, Tarkovsky is dead, so nothing should be like Stalker. I also threw Fallen Angels out there, that film is VERY different from Stalker and still manages to be great at exploring humanity without being derivative and predictable.

In fact, Everything Everywhere had all those scenes that were an homage to In The Mood For Love and it just made me wish I was watching that one instead.

[Alexandros]

Idk, am I the only one that feels this way?

Nope, I very much agree with you. It just feels that whole categories of films have all but disappeared from the mainstream. Not that movies like Solaris were ever mainstream, but it does feel that something is missing. Of course this opens up a whole other discussion about the difference in delivery media between now and say, not even twenty years back. Many will probably say that different kinds of films are still around, we have more options available to us through all kinds of streaming services; but then you have the counter-argument that everything is now drowned out in the chaos of too many choices! Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread but I get what you're saying. I remember going to multiplexes with 10 cinemas and there were like 10+ movies available to you from all kinds of genres. Now you have 10 cinemas playing the same movie (a little hyperbole but not by much). And multiplexes themselves have been accused for starting the downward trend of cinematic variety. Ok enough I'll shut up.

[burnmotherfucker!]

Jack is a very difficult film. It feels like trier doubling down on his meanness. It's also very much a dantes inferno esq redemption film however Jack is so rotten redemption may not be possible. I love the film however it's not for everyone. It's a very difficult film. Much darker than even antichriist if that was even fucking possible.

I forgot to comment on this earlier.

It is a dark film. But there is a dark comedy (divine comedy perhaps?) to it. And there is a playfulness that was absent in his "depression trilogy." Sure if you take all the events of the film literal then it can be seen as pretty dark. But to me it was very clear early on in the film that it is a commentary on art. It's asking a lot of questions. One of them being, is depicting evil in art in and of itself evil? Why is destruction entertaining? If the artist is to blame, am I not also at fault for being so entertained by it? Or is there something deeper at play? Does watching it actually have to opposite effect? Does it actually reveal my own humanity as a viewer?

Nowadays people confuse depiction with endorsement. I fundamentally disagree. That isn't the way art should work.

Artists need to have the freedom to create. Take ANY taboo and put it in movie as long as there is cause to do so. If people are offended then it's their own problem. Let them deal with it. It isn't the job of the artist to censor themselves and I think Jack is in part a statement on that. It's Trier's statement on his own work up until this point. Hell, he even references his other work directly in the film.

Of course, that's only one angle and there are many other ways to look at it and things that can be taken from it. But I think, for me, I couldn't call it a mean film without feeling like I was leaving out a lot of important context. And it certainly wasn't difficult for me. I think it is easily his most entertaining film to date and it has a really snappy pace to it. But for what it's worth I've never really seen a film that I would call difficult. Maybe Showgirls though.