Trilogy (NTAE, Add violence, Bad Witch) playing order/theories

**botley** · 06-24-2018, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by d1stinct

I wonder if Trent watched Neil Degrasse's: Is the Universe a Simulation debate ( ) and was just like... you know what, these guys can't even agree on anything so I'm just gonna say f*** it and not give a shit anymore!

I'd like to think he actually read a book on it! Wild. The 42 Entertainment people, at least, went out of the way to include a lot of technical and scientific jargon in the Add Violence artwork, which indicates a slightly more nuanced understanding than the typical dorm-room lecture on YouTube (not throwing shade here, just saying TR is well-read and probably put lots of thought and research into the 'concept' before throwing it out at the last hurdle, which is very reminiscent of Bleedthrough).

**Damage** · 06-24-2018, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by rboggs

So, as a music nerd, he's probably aware of the fan theory around OK COMPUTER and IN RAINBOWS. When those were released, fan noticed a pattern, and started putting the two together, with the first track of OKC followed by the first track of IN RAINBOWS, Track two of OKC, then Track two INR. So since AV I've been blending the EPs as such.

Tell me more!

**nocturnalflare** · 06-24-2018, 07:15 PM

Cold and black and infinite

1.branches/bones
2.dear world,
3.less than
4.the idea of you
5.this isn't the place
6.not anymore
7.shit mirror
8.ahead of ourselves
9.burning bright(field on fire)
10.play the goddamned part
11.god break down the door
12.she's gone away
13.the lovers
14.the background world(edit)
15.i'm not from this world
16.over and out

**Dryalex12** · 06-24-2018, 07:41 PM

honestly, Less Then kinda feels out of place after listening to them all. anyone else feel that way?

**Steven** · 06-24-2018, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dryalex12

honestly, Less Then kinda feels out of place after listening to them all. anyone else feel that way?

Yeah I agree, even though I really like it I wish they put something eerier/atmospheric as the opener of Add Violence.

**leftshoe18** · 06-24-2018, 09:53 PM

First off I named the whole thing Cold and Black and Infinite after the tour (and line from Branches/Bones) and came up with two orders I like.

SNAKE ORDER:

Basically I took the track order and alternated through the EPs in this order:
NTAE1 -> AV1 -> BW1 -> BW2 -> AV2 -> NTAE2 ... etc

1. Branches/Bones
2. Less Than
3. Shit Mirror
4. Ahead Of Ourselves
5. The Lovers
6. Dear World
7. She's Gone Away
8. This Isn't The Place
9. Play The Goddamned Part
10. God Break Down The Door
11. Not Anymore
12. The Idea Of You
13. Burning Bright (Field On Fire)
14. The Background World <--- the loop thing is removed
15. I'm Not From This World
16. Over And Out

REVISED SNAKE ORDER:

I then made a few choice edits to the track order as such

1. Branches/Bones
2. Less Than
3. Shit Mirror
4. Ahead Of Ourselves
5. Dear World <---- these two are flipped because i feel like it's important for "everyone seems to be asleep" to become "everyone is asleep but me" and not vice versa
6. The Lovers <-|
7. She's Gone Away
8. This Isn't The Place
9. Play The Goddamned Part
10. God Break Down The Door <----- these were kept together to force I'm Not From This World into Not Anymore (idea based on embedded lyrics to INFTW)
11. I'm Not From This World <--|
12. Not Anymore
13. The Idea Of You
14. Burning Bright (Field On Fire)
15. The Background World <--- the loop thing is removed
16. Over And Out

I think both versions actually flow pretty well to be honest. I also like the whole "listen to them in chronological order" thing but with The Background World's loop thing removed (it really kills the flow of any track list that it doesn't close out in my opinion).

**reseen_lamenti** · 06-24-2018, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by valiantsteed

Initially, I found it quite difficult to come up with one master track list because of The Background World and Over and Out as neither would seemingly fit anywhere else other than at the end. As a troubleshoot, I broke it into 2 "halves" with TBW finishing the first 8 songs, which would then "loop" into Less Than to start the second half, which would actually almost feel natural if you've listened to Add Violence on repeat many times before. Given the metaphorical statement of the end of TBW, I found that concept to be rather fitting here. And while the notion of doing a full "CD" and connecting this collection of songs to that dead medium seems a bit silly now, I will say the coincidence/happy accident of the entire 16 tracks running at 1 hour, 19 minutes and change is kind of impossible not to notice.

The first half I wanted to focus on the anger and chaos of the trilogy. Wanting answers, explanations, sense - the world not providing that and the response being FUCK YOU. Two crunchy openers back to back followed by the power of Burning Bright. I loved the transition of Not Anymore and the "I Just Can't Seem to Wake Up" outro going into 'Yes, Everybody seems to be Asleep" in Dear World too. This Isn't The Place being the one kind of sonic reprieve to break up the constant droning onslaught.

The second half is more of this hazy acceptance that you won't ever receive the answers you need. You can only continue to ask the right questions, ad infinitum. You might slip in or slip out of that consciousness at times but ultimately we are all locked on the same track despite being disconnected. So why not succumb to addiction or self medication? Why feel like certain things are "important" when in the end they are not? That realization can be incredibly cold, accompanied by a vast sense of loneliness. This made She's Gone Away and the Idea of You the perfect sandwich bread for PTGP/GBDTD. Nor could I bring myself to break up I'm Not From This World and Over & Out as the epic closing duo for obvious reasons. The fight is real. How you choose to accept your eventual defeat is up to you. But fret not, for things are not entirely bleak! For when you get to that end, the whole experience will likely loop around again. And again. and again. and again like the endless blackness of space. And there is absolutely nothing you can do about that. Shiiiiiiiiit.

1. Branches/Bones
2. Shit Mirror
3. Burning Bright (Field on Fire)
4. Ahead of Ourselves
5. This Isn't The Place
6. Not Anymore
7. Dear World,
8. The Background World
9. Less Than
10. She's Gone Away
11. Play The Goddamned Part
12. God Break Down The Door
13. The Idea of You
14. The Lovers
15. I'm Not From This World
16. Over and Out

This is by far the best one, I think. Fucking saved.

**BRoswell** · 06-25-2018, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Dryalex12

honestly, Less Then kinda feels out of place after listening to them all. anyone else feel that way?

It stands out, but I don't think that it feels out of place. It reminds me of what Trent said about "We're In This Together":

"When I wrote that song it was one of the last songs for the record. I like the obviousness of the track but I was fearful of the obviousness of the track and in a record that I think is pretty dense and somewhat challenging to get through, I didn't want a song that was too obviously the hit single. Of all the tracks on that album I think that was the hardest to arrange and mix, because if it was mixed poorly, it sounded too obvious in the context of the record, and at this point we were very aware of the context of the record."

It's obvious, but it's not so obvious that it doesn't fit at all.

**Dryalex12** · 06-25-2018, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by BRoswell

It stands out, but I don't think that it feels out of place. It reminds me of what Trent said about "We're In This Together":

It's obvious, but it's not so obvious that it doesn't fit at all.

Maybe not musically, but it does lyrically. I cant really find a place to put it that fits the concept

**BRoswell** · 06-25-2018, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dryalex12

Maybe not musically, but it does lyrically. I cant really find a place to put it that fits the concept

Self-doubt? ("Are you less than?")
Not recognizing the world that you're living in? ("We awake in a place we can barely recognize.")
Feeling that world is coming to an end? ("Look what you've gone and done. Welcome oblivion.")

Seems like it fits in pretty well to me. People want to see it as just a song about Trump (and it probably is), but it definitely reaches beyond that.

**horstfriedel** · 06-25-2018, 04:46 AM

I like the vocal based tracks on all three releases most. Don't like every single track of the ep's but made a playlist on spotify that works very well for me. Just like the old fragile days...
Here is the playlist:

Branches/Bones
The Lovers
shit Mirror
Less Than
The Idea of You
Ahead of Ourself
This Isn't the Place
Burning Bright
The Background World

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**ROFLRICK** · 06-25-2018, 01:21 PM

I'm currently giving this order a listen, with just one change: I edited out the repetitive groove at the end of The Background World. That song just ends with buzz/zip noise, and goes right into Over and Out.

Originally Posted by SCMOnline

I tried the below with the rules being that it has to start with Branches/Bones, end with Over and Out and no track from each EP can break it's original order. Tracks that flow into one another had to stay together too which left me ultimately with this:

BRANCHES/BONES
DEAR WORLD
LESS THAN
THE LOVERS
SHIT MIRROR
AHEAD OF OURSELVES
SHE'S GONE AWAY
THIS ISN'T THE PLACE
NOT ANYMORE
THE IDEA OF YOU
PLAY THE GODDAMED PART
BURNING BRIGHT (FIELD ON FIRE)
GOD BREAK DOWN THE DOOR
I'M NOT FROM THIS WORLD
THE BACKGROUND WORLD
OVER AND OUT

I just like the flow of it. I pretend the trilogy tells of three related events that are all happening simultaneously but in different realities so the above is a bit like a TV programme bouncing around between characters.
Because just listening to music isn't enough these days!

**SM Rollinger** · 06-25-2018, 07:59 PM

my current one

01 branches/bones
02 less than
03 ahead of ourselves
04 the idea of you
05 shes gone away
06 play the goddamned part
07 god break down the door
08 burning bright
09 im not from this world
10 this isnt the place
11 the lovers
12 dear world
13 shit mirror
14 not anymore
15 over and out
16 the background world

(this reminds me of trying to sequence the fragile era material

)

**NTAEAVBW** · 06-26-2018, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by OSLIN

Lots of theories running through my head.
Been listening to this mix of all the eps and figured I’d share.

01 The Background World
02 Ahead of Ourselves
03 Branches/Bones
04 Dear World
05 Less Than
06 The Lovers
07 Shit Mirror
08 She’s Gone Away
09 God Break Down the Door
10 I’m Not From This World
11 The Idea of You
12 Burning Bright (Field on Fire)
13 Play the Goddamn Part
14 This Isn’t the Place
15 Not Anymore
16 Over and Out

https://itunes.apple.com/us/playlist...l.u-j4ksaY83yj

Really enjoy the flow of this. The Background World into Ahead of Ourselves is real, real nice. Same with the outro Not Anymore into Over and Out just works.

**millertd0513** · 06-26-2018, 01:57 PM

I played around with the idea of mixing up the order in my head, but I think it plays best in natural order. Considering each EP takes a look at a question from a certain perspective, it seems bad to break up the EPs in terms of narration.

Especially TBW's self destructing loop leading into Shit Mirror, which is such a destructive song in terms of tone/production.

**Pbgut** · 06-26-2018, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by millertd0513

I played around with the idea of mixing up the order in my head, but I think it plays best in natural order. Considering each EP takes a look at a question from a certain perspective, it seems bad to break up the EPs in terms of narration.

Especially TBW's self destructing loop leading into Shit Mirror, which is such a destructive song in terms of tone/production.

Yeah, I'm really not a fan of the idea of breaking up the perspectives just so it (theoretically) flows like a one-act album. It's a three-act weirdo triptych masterpiece and the transitions are great as is, for me. I experimented with moving TBW to the end, but it felt odd and it works as a punishing and difficult mid-end track similar to 10 Miles High and The New Flesh wrapping the second to last side of the vinyl, or Eraser or the track The Downward Spiral.

**StockAvuryah** · 06-26-2018, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Fred

Considering Trent's explanation of NTAE in the NIN.com interview, I would suggest that the three reversed TDS songs on the vinyl are meant to form sort of a prologue where we wind back to the point right after Eraser, where the protagonist screams "KILL ME!"

Instead of Reptile, where the protagonist internally lashes out at a former lover, we get Branches/Bones where "her branches are the bones that break." The protagonist kills her this time, but is also aware that something is amiss as it "feels like I've been here before."

What we subsequently get is an alternate, unrealized and more violent ending to the story of TDS. And to Trent's story. Remember he could have killed himself in 1999, and quite possibly earlier, but that's not how it went down. These are not the actual events.

It explains the Reptile lyrics on the PC as bits of the actual events "bleeding through," and it also sort of explains the impetus for using the Still artwork. Out of all the artwork Trent could have chosen, he went for the art of an EP recorded when he was arguably at his lowest point as an addict.

Oh man I just finished Over And Out and I thought of something.

Considering the trilogy as an alternate ending to the story, the end of Hurt and the end of Over And Out are the opposite of each other.

The first one finishes in a harsh ambient noise, and a static that cuts abruptly at the end, while the second just resolves in a satisfying manner, in some kind of bliss, with light notes, very slowly disappearing...

As if, finally, peace was made. Reality was accepted. These are the actual events in the end. And it completely mirrors Trent's story. Before, after.

**InsectGod** · 06-26-2018, 03:16 PM

Here is my current playlist order, it could change as I listen to these three releases collectively more. It's not that I don't like the tracks I removed from the main album, I just like the flow better without them. Bonus: The 13 tracks fit perfectly on a 60 min cassette (minus some of the loops at the end).

Side A:
Branches/Bones
Shit Mirror
Not Anymore
Dear World,
Play the Goddamned Part
God Break Down the Door
She's Gone Away
Ahead of Ourselves

Side B:
Burning Bright (Field on Fire)
I'm Not from This World
The Idea of You
Over and Out
The Background World

Bonus disc :
Less Than
This Isn't the Place
The Lovers

**millertd0513** · 06-26-2018, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by StockAvuryah

Oh man I just finished Over And Out and I thought of something.

Considering the trilogy as an alternate ending to the story, the end of Hurt and the end of Over And Out are the opposite of each other.

The first one finishes in a harsh ambient noise, and a static that cuts abruptly at the end, while the second just resolves in a satisfying manner, in some kind of bliss, with light notes, very slowly disappearing...

As if, finally, peace was made. Reality was accepted. These are the actual events in the end. And it completely mirrors Trent's story. Before, after.

This is the only other acceptable listening order to me, although I would hate to cut off TDS at any point. I like the idea of having a parallel universe with the same first act but a completely changed outcome.

We have TDS to start it off, Fragile is arguably a continuation of the character in TDS, HM is a reflection of someone coming out of the other side of TDS, and the EP trilogy which can be viewed as an alternate reality of the end of TDS.

That's a hell of a saga, if so.

**rboggs** · 06-26-2018, 04:30 PM

True or not, it's a pretty cool theory.

Here is BK Vegan article that sums it up. Back in the day, I remember being super excited at the idea, but at least all the NIN songs fit onto one CD.

Regardless of TR's intent, he's always been about fan engagement and leaving interpretation up to the listener. Since Friday, I've listened to the new material (all three EPs) with new ears with every contextual change.

And maybe that's the real goal. Creating strong, lasting music, that can exist in any context we can find.

Color me cool.

**Ryan Tollefson** · 06-26-2018, 04:50 PM

This works best for me

Branches/Bones
Dear world
She’s gone away
The idea of you
Burning bright

Less than
The lovers
This isn’t the place
Not anymore
The background world

Shit mirror
Ahead of ourselves
Play the goddamned part
God break down the door
I’m not from this world
Over and out

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**OSLIN** · 06-26-2018, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ryan Tollefson

This works best for me

Branches/Bones
Dear world
She’s gone away
The idea of you
Burning bright

Less than
The lovers
This isn’t the place
Not anymore
The background world

Shit mirror
Ahead of ourselves
Play the goddamned part
God break down the door
I’m not from this world
Over and out

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t like this mix, so unoriginal /s

**horstfriedel** · 06-27-2018, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by horstfriedel

I like the vocal based tracks on all three releases most. Don't like every single track of the ep's but made a playlist on spotify that works very well for me. Just like the old fragile days...
Here is the playlist:

Branches/Bones
The Lovers
shit Mirror
Less Than
The Idea of You
Ahead of Ourself
This Isn't the Place
Burning Bright
The Background World

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And then I did this.... Careful, some will call it blasphemy...

I put "a second to breathe" between This isn't the Place and Burning bright.
You might say 'Trent mentioned it's not NIN' and it has no context to the story. Yes you are right... but it fits so nicely in here, it has all elements of a great NIN song. Together these songs are the best piece of music since The Fragile!

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**StockAvuryah** · 06-27-2018, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ryan Tollefson

This works best for me

Branches/Bones
Dear world
She’s gone away
The idea of you
Burning bright

Less than
The lovers
This isn’t the place
Not anymore
The background world

Shit mirror
Ahead of ourselves
Play the goddamned part
God break down the door
I’m not from this world
Over and out

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope you didn't cut the background world loop.

私のiPhoneからを使って送信Tapatalk

**Fred** · 06-27-2018, 12:28 PM

Something cool I just spotted. The AV slipmat shows a gauge labelled “Mutation,” which is pretty neat given the lyrics of Shit Mirror.

Clearly, Bad Witch didn’t pull a complete 180-degree turn on the original vision. We may have lost the sci-fi angle on the way, but there are still enough callbacks to form a coherent whole.

**StockAvuryah** · 06-27-2018, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Fred

Something cool I just spotted. The AV slipmat shows a gauge labelled “Mutation,” which is pretty neat given the lyrics of Shit Mirror.

Clearly, Bad Witch didn’t pull a complete 180-degree turn on the original vision. We may have lost the sci-fi angle on the way, but there are still enough callbacks to form a coherent whole.

Oh that's cool.

https://i.redd.it/wslowbi86l001.jpg

And it's in the center.

**Destruct26** · 06-27-2018, 02:19 PM

Seems like Hesitation Marks and this trilogy have a lot in common lyric wise, sonically, and theme wise to a point. (Also consider HM was out not to long ago) While he had TDS in mind while writing HM, and how NTAE connects to TDS as well, it prompted me to step outside the bounds and incorporate HM in. So here’s a ‘mutation’ I dubbed “Hesitation Mutation” whereas the NTA trilogy fits around/into HM’s natural track sequence.
1. The Eater Of Dreams
2. BRANCHES/BONES_____________intros; foray into dreams and madness
3. DEAR WORLD,________________Nicely connects B/B to COA. Everyone seems to be asleep
4. Copy Of A
5. LESS THAN__________________Look what you’ve gone and done
6. Came Back Haunted
7. SHE’S GONE AWAY____________2 Lynchian Tracks
8. GOD BREAK DOWN THE DOOR
9. Find My Way_________________2 Faith tracks
10. THE LOVERS
11. All Time Low_________________2 Addiction tracks
12. PLAY THE GODDAMNED PART
13. Disappointed_________________two atmospheric tracks, decent bridge
14. AHEAD OF OURSELVES_________nice bridge track, fast bpms toward E & SM
15. Everything
16. SHIT MIRROR________________the becoming tracks; SM leads into Satellite.
17. Satellite
18. THE BACKGROUND WORLD (4.06 EDIT)____sonically similar, dark atomospheric tracks. It folds itself IN TWO.
19. Various Methods Of Escape
20. BURNING BRIGHT (FIELD ON FIRE)_______let it go, burn it to the ground.
21. Running
22. THIS ISN’T THE PLACE________I think I had a friend who knew me; and if you see my friend; I’m running out [of time]
23. NOT ANYMORE
24. THE IDEA OF YOU_________things are coming to a close. Loss, I can’t seem to wake up, it gets so lonely in here.
25. I Would For You
26. In Two
27. I’M NOT FROM THIS WORLD_____try again to become somebody else, but nature is violent, howling into the horror of INFTW.
28. While I’m Still Here
29. Black Noise
30. OVER AND OUT___________ticking time is running out; ends with white noise opposing black noise

**StockAvuryah** · 06-27-2018, 03:46 PM

@Destruct26

Nice. Love it. I'm going to try this instead of listening to the ultimate edition of The Fragile for the 9000th time. Seems like a very cool journey.

I'll try to do an alternate version of this afterwards, because some of these placements are tricky (everything for example). And I like the idea.

But shit, if Black Noise really works there, this could be an incredible placement.

**Dimitri.** · 06-29-2018, 02:30 PM

Best flow, balance and narrative for me is this order:

All tracks really blend good together (sonically and lyrically). The end of TBW sounds great in that position too. Perfect album.

**eversonpoe** · 06-30-2018, 03:22 PM

i finally listened to all three releases in reverse chronological order (bad witch, add violence, not the actual events) and it flowed for me (both narratively and musically) perfectly. not messing with the tracks within each release maintains their individual continuity, and then having "over and out" into "less than" works so well, as does the disintegrating loop of "the background world" into "branches/bones" (as i said as soon as AV was released), so i'm happy with it like that.

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