Fragility 1.0 Tour Projections Source Tape

[ninlive]

EDIT : plz note that jheberg can be 10x time faster than ninlive !! (that is if you can go that upload speed lol)

Yeah, but which one preserves things pertaining to nin live? I’m not trying to force more traffic to the site. Simply trying to help out by having a permanent place to download these files where I have a high ceiling for storage on my server. I don’t anticipate stopping the site any time soon. After almost 10 years...
@the_tic_begins I’ll send you the FTP info and walk you through the steps that will allow you to upload (if you wish)

[StockAvuryah]

I did my best trying to clean the audio and the video of the tape. It's far from perfect but I thought of it more like an exercise for me or something, I'm sure that this will get a proper remaster from someone that knows more about this things that me, anyway, here it is.

So how did you do that ? I have a lot of time and interest for this and I'm sure I can do something clean. Nice job for something so quick by the way.

edit : and also could you give us the files of the cleanup you made ? Could be interesting for some manipulations

[mauro995]

So how did you do that ? I have a lot of time and interest for this and I'm sure I can do something clean. Nice job for something so quick by the way.

edit : and also could you give us the files of the cleanup you made ? Could be interesting for some manipulations

Thanks! I used Adobe After Effects for the video, specially the "Remove grain" effect and a bit of color correction. For the audio I just used an equalizer to finde those frequencies that generated more noise and I lowered them.
I'll be able to upload the file somewhere later today.

Edit: Here it is https://mega.nz/#!RN4gAZyR!3PQoBTT6Z...g3zQiJaa0RJ5xQ

[ninjaw]

Yeah, but which one preserves things pertaining to nin live? I’m not trying to force more traffic to the site. Simply trying to help out by having a permanent place to download these files where I have a high ceiling for storage on my server. I don’t anticipate stopping the site any time soon. After almost 10 years...

Lol, it's you sir, no doubts about it.

[StockAvuryah]

Thanks! I used Adobe After Effects for the video, specially the "Remove grain" effect and a bit of color correction. For the audio I just used an equalizer to finde those frequencies that generated more noise and I lowered them.
I'll be able to upload the file somewhere later today.

Edit: Here it is https://mega.nz/#!RN4gAZyR!3PQoBTT6Z...g3zQiJaa0RJ5xQ

Thanks. The quality is worse than the original file though.

But, is it possible in After Effects to substract elements of one clip from another ? As we got a sample of the artifacts in the first few seconds, we could remove them on the rest of the video. But well, there's certainly someone more experienced on this forum ready to do this.

[mauro995]

Thanks. The quality is worse than the original file though.

But, is it possible in After Effects to substract elements of one clip from another ? As we got a sample of the artifacts in the first few seconds, we could remove them on the rest of the video. But well, there's certainly someone more experienced on this forum ready to do this.

I intended the video for YouTube so I used the h264 codec, wich is a good one, but it might be a bit more compressed than the original file. It works great for YouTube though. I may try to work more on the video with more time to see if I can make a better version, anyway, yes, I hope someone may be able to restore this thing properly.

[ninjaw]

I intended the video for YouTube so I used the h264 codec, wich is a good one, but it might be a bit more compressed than the original file. I may try to work more on the video with more time to see if I can make a better version, anyway, yes, I hope someone may be able to restore this thing properly.

A good one ? Absolutly everything is in H264. Just saying.

[mauro995]

A good one ? Absolutly everything is in H264. Just saying.

It's like the standard codec today, yes. But if you don't like compression and want full quality there are some things out there like ProRes 4444 for example.
I mean, when things are finally rendered and intended for distribution h264 is what you need, but you won't use h264 to restore the quality of a video file.

[StockAvuryah]

I made a video for each track with the footage + full quality audio from flacs, so it works as music videos (on youtube) :







(Playlist)

I noticed the audio on the original tape is apparently just the three tracks with a meticulous crossfade between each, so if you want remastered audio, just take the flacs from The Fragile and align them perfectly eh. (edit : not so simple actually)

[mauro995]

I made a video for each track with the footage + full quality audio from flacs, so it works as music videos (on youtube) :







(Playlist)

I noticed the audio on the original tape is apparently just the three tracks with a meticulous crossfade between each, so if you want remastered audio, just take the flacs from The Fragile Definitive Edition and align them perfectly eh.

This is great. The audio of the tape is not exactly the same as that of the album versions though. The songs are edited and they are in a lower key, to match how they were played live.

[StockAvuryah]

This is great. The audio of the tape is not exactly the same as that of the album versions though. The songs are edited and they are in a lower key, to match how they were played live.

Ah shit, thanks. So more work then. And yeah, I just watched all three and damn is it great. Especially TWOIT.

[fillow]

Speaking of edits, it's probably worth mentioning that TWOIT 'explosion' part is twice longer in the actual live performances as opposed to the studio version and the version from this new vid

[botley]

Speaking of edits, it's probably worth mentioning that TWOIT 'explosion' part is twice longer in the actual live performances as opposed to the studio version and the version from this new vid

Yes, I believe that is also the part where they inserted more Peter Christopherson stuff into the actual tour projection film (and replaced the waves with more of a "morphing grid" motif).

[TheBang]

they are in a lower key

That's not correct. They are in the same key. In fact, the audio on this tape is just the studio audio, with some minor edits.

[Jon]

It's like the standard codec today, yes. But if you don't like compression and want full quality there are some things out there like ProRes 4444 for example.
I mean, when things are finally rendered and intended for distribution h264 is what you need, but you won't use h264 to restore the quality of a video file.

And here we hit on the main problem: colorspace. The video was shot at 4:1:1, was converted to 4:2:2 for analogue tape, and was digitized as 8-bit YUV 4:2:0. This is how the excessive dot crawl was introduced in the first place. Full RGB (4:4:4) could give you the placebo effect of looking better because of the "color pop", but would increase overall noise (chroma/luma even more imbalanced from source) and actually be worse.

100% honesty: remastering the video from this point would only soften the image and remove finer detail. There are comb filters, noise filters, etc., but those can be extremely detrimental if you don't know what you're doing. This is the video equivalent of trying to remaster, say, Purest Feeling or Death Magnetic from the CD source.

I am stoked that this is even in our possession at all. Short of a new RGB 4:2:2 digitization ($$$) or the original 4:1:1 DV dump, this is the best we'll get--remastered or not.

[bobbie solo]

Death Magnetic from the CD source.

What? You have a problem with that? Looks fine to me.

[Jon]

What? You have a problem with that? Looks fine to me.

I love the sound of ear rape in the morning.

After looking into it a little more, it appears only 60Hz DV is 4:1:1. 50Hz DV should be 4:2:0. However, since it was converted to analogue and that is technically our source, 4:2:2 would be a more accurate colorspace for a digital intermediate.

[TheBang]

The video was shot at 4:1:1

How do you know this was shot on DV? I would've said film. For example, at 6:24-6:25 or 7:49, you can see stuff that looks like scratches or dirt. If you step through the frames, it looks like 24 fps. Which is why you see jittery motion on what should be smooth panning, for example, at 8:25-8:55 (the conversion to PAL 25 fps; they didn't use PAL speed-up).

100% honesty: remastering the video from this point would only soften the image and remove finer detail. There are comb filters, noise filters, etc., but those can be extremely detrimental if you don't know what you're doing.

Definitely agree with this 100%.

I think a big part of the problem is the playback deck. Just look at all the noise at the beginning and end (during the black screens). I think the heads on the deck need to be cleaned or aligned or something. I think the rest of the problems stem from the media (High band U-matic is only incrementally better in resolution than VHS) and the fact that this was not originally recorded in PAL.

[fillow]

If only you guys were in charge of AVOTT color correction back in the day...

[mauro995]

That's not correct. They are in the same key. In fact, the audio on this tape is just the studio audio, with some minor edits.

I invite you to play the studio audio at the same time as the audio of the tape, cause or something happened with the file I downloaded or they are in a lower key.

[botley]

I invite you to play the studio audio at the same time as the audio of the tape, cause or something happened with the file I downloaded or they are in a lower key.

With what version are you comparing the video tracks? The Definitive Edition remaster and original vinyl version of "La Mer" are longer edits, so that might be affecting your comparison. But the studio recordings and these videos are close to the same pitch, to my ears. It just sounds like a dub to videotape from the CD versions.

[TheBang]

I invite you to play the studio audio at the same time as the audio of the tape, cause or something happened with the file I downloaded or they are in a lower key.

Something's wrong with what you're listening to. Either the video file or the studio audio.

[mauro995]

This is weird. But if the problem is just mine and the audio is in the same time and tone as the CD version then better, since we can substitute the original audio of the tape to have it with higher quality.

[Jon]

How do you know this was shot on DV? I would've said film. For example, at 6:24-6:25 or 7:49, you can see stuff that looks like scratches or dirt. If you step through the frames, it looks like 24 fps. Which is why you see jittery motion on what should be smooth panning, for example, at 8:25-8:55 (the conversion to PAL 25 fps; they didn't use PAL speed-up).

You are absolutely right about the jitter; I didn't notice that during my late-night viewing. Anyone with a 24p-capable Blu-ray player and a TV with pulldown (Cinemotion, etc.) can simulate the effect. I didn't go frame by frame, can you verify there's only 24 with a repeated frame? It could have been shot at 30, which would still give jitter on playback at 25.

The DV is (obviously) a complete guess based on the time period and the lack of usual artifacts associated with film. Perhaps my eyes just aren't good enough to pick out the grain/scratches through the dot crawl. I looked at 6:24-6:25 and the dirt/scratches you are seeing appear to be shadowing, the "dirt" at the end of that clip appears to be black bubbles (lighting). If you look closely at the strip on the left, the black dots look more like dead pixels than grain.

[TheBang]

The DV is (obviously) a complete guess based on the time period and the lack of usual artifacts associated with film. Perhaps my eyes just aren't good enough to pick out the grain/scratches through the dot crawl. I looked at 6:24-6:25 and the dirt/scratches you are seeing appear to be shadowing, the "dirt" at the end of that clip appears to be black bubbles (lighting). If you look closely at the strip on the left, the black dots look more like dead pixels than grain.

Nah, I'm talking about stuff like this that you can see at 7:49.84 (in the MP4 file). The big black splotch appears for exactly one frame and then disappears.

Or at 7:57.12, there's a vertical line in the top middle of the picture that appears for exactly one frame and then disappears.

[joplinpicasso]

How in the hell did I not notice this thread/this thread's contents until now?

This is amazing as this string of tracks is my favorite sequence in the NIN catalogue (including ITV). Somehow I don't mind the distortion. Call it enforced nostalgia.

[ninlive]

So, besides what The Nic sent me, should I think about adding any of the edits to the archive to preserve? Did anyone sync up any of the live versions of the songs to this stuff? Most of this stuff is a bit over my head. I love how meticulous the nin community is.

Hopefully, will have it up by tomorrow night. I was late on sending the info to nic.

[paul_guyet]

Something's wrong with what you're listening to. Either the video file or the studio audio.

I think the music on the tape might just be slightly slowed down?

[StockAvuryah]

So, besides what The Nic sent me, should I think about adding any of the edits to the archive to preserve? Did anyone sync up any of the live versions of the songs to this stuff? Most of this stuff is a bit over my head. I love how meticulous the nin community is.

Hopefully, will have it up by tomorrow night. I was late on sending the info to nic.

Like sync a v1.0 performance with it ?

Alright I'm doing it, posting on this thread later.

I'll also try to do a version with full quality audio with the edits necessary to sync with the tape, I think.

edit : or any live version of La Mer + TGB + TWOIT I guess (if anyone has any recommandations, it would speed up my watch of every live ever of NIN post-fragile containing these tracks, I know some of yall got favorites)

[ninlive]

Like sync a v1.0 performance with it ?

Alright I'm doing it, posting on this thread later.

I'll also try to do a version with full quality audio with the edits necessary to sync with the tape, I think.

edit : or any live version of La Mer + TGB + TWOIT I guess (if anyone has any recommandations, it would speed up my watch of every live ever of NIN post-fragile containing these tracks, I know some of yall got favorites)

If these are from 1999, I would say just sync them to the London 99 show. Sadly, no La Mer.

http://www.ninlive.com/shows/1999/19991201.html Source 1