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Thread: Fragility 1.0 Tour Projections Source Tape

  1. #31
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    all around bummer.

    regardless, id still like to see what the footage was.

  2. #32
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    Okay motherfuckers...

    Heard back from Carson who pretty much told me the same thing as @FULLMETAL: "the tape is stolen and this is a complete rip off". He then told me that he'll "work on seeing if he can get us some footage". Which would be awesome.
    I thanked him and told him that would be amazing.

    Then Rob got back to me and told me that the footage from the Fragility 1.0 tour was the work he did with Reznor and Christopherson, and that the only Carson stuff that was released was the TV spot and the "title sequence stuff" from AATCHB, and that whatever is on this tape might be completely unreleased/unused.

    I just reached out to the seller to ask for a sample of the tape to discern its authenticity and that the fucking thing is still watchable after two decades covered in mold.

    I'll keep you all updated.

    P.S. ​when is the third fucking EP coming out?!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_guyet View Post
    Okay motherfuckers...

    Heard back from Carson who pretty much told me the same thing as @FULLMETAL: "the tape is stolen and this is a complete rip off". He then told me that he'll "work on seeing if he can get us some footage". Which would be awesome.
    I thanked him and told him that would be amazing.

    Then Rob got back to me and told me that the footage from the Fragility 1.0 tour was the work he did with Reznor and Christopherson, and that the only Carson stuff that was released was the TV spot and the "title sequence stuff" from AATCHB, and that whatever is on this tape might be completely unreleased/unused.

    I just reached out to the seller to ask for a sample of the tape to discern its authenticity and that the fucking thing is still watchable after two decades covered in mold.

    I'll keep you all updated.

    P.S. ​when is the third fucking EP coming out?!
    Are we on the verge of another TOIOU? I'd like to get in the ground floor on the next one of those projects, I don't know what I can do but I'd be willing to do whatever, just sayin'.

  4. #34
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    Nice work, @paul_guyet

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikranax View Post
    I just wanted to say man, thank you for having that mindset. Even though it didn't come to fruition, I still appreciate the thought. Just curious, is it the younger brother of Hate yet older brother of Fragility? Even the mention of something like that is cool.
    You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by kargath View Post
    I'd throw in the pot for helping you get whatever this is restored.
    Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's possible to get the tape restored. I'm told the tape literally snapped, even with a technician watching to try to ensure that such a thing wouldn't happen. I'm not sure it's possible to fix the tape. Even if the snap could be fixed, who knows what else could happen. At this point, I'd only trust the tape to some top-tier team in Hollywood. I don't know how much they charge for this kind of stuff, assuming they can fix it. I suspect it's far more than I'd be willing to pay, even if I did take donations (which, to be honest, would feel wrong for various reasons).

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashback8 View Post
    At this point, I'd only trust the tape to some top-tier team in Hollywood. I don't know how much they charge for this kind of stuff, assuming they can fix it. I suspect it's far more than I'd be willing to pay, even if I did take donations (which, to be honest, would feel wrong for various reasons).
    I'm about to start a job as a controls engineer at universal studios in Orlando. While I'll be nowhere near the movie production teams (I'll be working on new rides and attractions), once I'm established a bit, I believe I'll have some interface with people that may at least know who I could contact for a personal project like this.

    I'll hit you up if that's ever a possibility.

    Do you have the specs of the tape?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashback8 View Post
    I'm not sure it's possible to fix the tape. Even if the snap could be fixed, who knows what else could happen.
    Assuming the tape's one-sided, you should be able to fix the snap with some scotch tape. Analog FTW! Having said that, you're right to be concerned about what else might go wrong, considering that even happened. My guess is you'd need to sit next to the playback machine with its case off and watch for strains in the media during playback.

    This was my biggest concern with the Fragility 1.0 tape I got. I actually bought a HiFi (stereo) VCR years before, with the express purpose of using it to rip VHS tapes in the future, knowing that these players were going away. The first thing I did when I got that Fragility 1.0 tape was put a different tape in the VCR, and the VCR immediately chewed up that tape. Bullet dodged, but I was also irked that this thing I bought for this purpose finally came up to get used, and failed at its job. Eventually I enlisted the assistance of @ItsJustDave and his superior equipment, and that's how I saw the slate with the production company, and incredibly, was able to convince the guy who still ran it to dig through his archives and send me his only copies of the footage on digital betacam. You know .

    Anyway - this stuff's not black magic, so much as there aren't as many people who have the equipment and know how to use it.

    I would love a PM about the contents of this particular tape!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kargath View Post
    I'm about to start a job as a controls engineer at universal studios in Orlando. While I'll be nowhere near the movie production teams (I'll be working on new rides and attractions), once I'm established a bit, I believe I'll have some interface with people that may at least know who I could contact for a personal project like this.

    I'll hit you up if that's ever a possibility.

    Do you have the specs of the tape?
    Thanks. I appreciate it. IIRC, it's a Betacam SP tape in the PAL format.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Assuming the tape's one-sided, you should be able to fix the snap with some scotch tape. Analog FTW! Having said that, you're right to be concerned about what else might go wrong, considering that even happened. My guess is you'd need to sit next to the playback machine with its case off and watch for strains in the media during playback.

    This was my biggest concern with the Fragility 1.0 tape I got. I actually bought a HiFi (stereo) VCR years before, with the express purpose of using it to rip VHS tapes in the future, knowing that these players were going away. The first thing I did when I got that Fragility 1.0 tape was put a different tape in the VCR, and the VCR immediately chewed up that tape. Bullet dodged, but I was also irked that this thing I bought for this purpose finally came up to get used, and failed at its job. Eventually I enlisted the assistance of @ItsJustDave and his superior equipment, and that's how I saw the slate with the production company, and incredibly, was able to convince the guy who still ran it to dig through his archives and send me his only copies of the footage on digital betacam. You know .

    Anyway - this stuff's not black magic, so much as there aren't as many people who have the equipment and know how to use it.

    I would love a PM about the contents of this particular tape!
    Interesting. Thanks for the info. When I got the tape back, the guy said that I was pretty much SOL. Who knows, maybe the firm he represented was far more incompetent than they made themselves out to be. (Wouldn't be the first time that has happened!) He claimed the tech took the case off and was watching, so who knows.

    Anyway, I'll send you a PM. The bad news is that I've lost track of the tape over the course of a couple of moves. The good news is that I'm pretty sure I still have it. I'm actually moving again (uggh) pretty soon and will crack open a few boxes as I'm going through everything.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Nice work, @paul_guyet
    Thank me when we're waist deep in sweet, sweet unreleased Fragility 1.0 video stuffs.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leviathant View Post
    Assuming the tape's one-sided, you should be able to fix the snap with some scotch tape. Analog FTW!
    Sadly, the video heads would be scratched at the splice & that's not an easy repair. You'd have to repack the reel into two cassettes & lose roughly 30 seconds around the break.

    I picked up a Sony J-30 to transfer my Digibeta reels, but it's NTSC which doesn't help for any of these PAL tapes.

    I can't remember who mentioned working at Universal, but here's an oldie (that I transferred from Digibeta) of my first cable TV job (the studio was on the backlot of Universal Orlando).

  11. #41
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    Just heard back from the seller. Apparently, he has 4 Carson/NIN tapes that fell off a truck into a storage locker he COMPLETELY LEGALLY OWNS but doesn't have a played that's able to play them. He also suggests that "the tapes are extremely valuable, whether or not they are viewable".

    So, again, fuck this guy.

    I told him if he can obtain a player (he probably can't) and send me a sample (he probably won't), that I'd happily make an offer (I definitely won't).

  12. #42
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    ...so has anyone actually tried to bring this to eBay's attention? They will work with the appropriate local authorities if there's a legit claim to stolen property being sold....

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    ...so has anyone actually tried to bring this to eBay's attention? They will work with the appropriate local authorities if there's a legit claim to stolen property being sold....
    I'm picturing someone stole the videos, put them in a storage locker, forgot about said locker or, I don't know, got arrested, and then this dude bought the contents in a completely legal auction. That's what happens to storage lockers after they default I believe. So, even though the stuff inside is stolen, this guy didn't steal them, he just owns a locker full of stolen stuff.
    The only person who might actually be able to do anything is Carson, who's already contacted the seller and who told the story about legally buying the contents of the locker.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_guyet View Post
    Just heard back from the seller. Apparently, he has 4 Carson/NIN tapes that fell off a truck into a storage locker he COMPLETELY LEGALLY OWNS
    I'm assuming the emphasis here is the seller's argument. Regardless of how he came into possession of it, he can't legally own stolen property.

    This is eBay's policy on stolen property:

    https://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/stolen.html

    If you see stolen property on eBay, please contact local law enforcement immediately. The law enforcement agency should then contact us using our Law Enforcement Center and tools reserved for law enforcement officials.
    A law enforcement official contacting us should include all relevant information, including the case number and any item numbers or user IDs. This information appears on the listing page.
    So, basically, you should pass this on to David Carson. Assuming he can identify this tape (and presumably the others) as his property, he should contact the detective assigned to his case and then it's up to the police to decide if they want to contact eBay and subpoena the seller's information.

    Quote Originally Posted by paul_guyet View Post
    The only person who might actually be able to do anything is Carson, who's already contacted the seller and who told the story about legally buying the contents of the locker.
    Again, regardless of who he paid or where he found it, he can't legally own stolen property. But really, probably the only way something is going to happen is if police get involved, and maybe threaten to charge the seller with possession of stolen property. But that requires cross-jurisdictional cooperation, and a willingness to do something for what they may feel is only a few hundred dollars worth of property (that we know of).

  15. #45
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    Update: the seller now has bidding starting at $100, and a Buy It Now for $1000. I'm guessing he now wants this to be sold as quickly as possible, given his earlier prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trollmanen View Post
    Update: the seller now has bidding starting at $100, and a Buy It Now for $1000. I'm guessing he now wants this to be sold as quickly as possible, given his earlier prices.
    Maybe he{s an ETS member and now knows shit is getting deep...

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfonso99 View Post
    Maybe he{s an ETS member and now knows shit is getting deep...
    deep

    d e e p

    d e e p

  18. #48
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    $1000 isnt all that much, cant we start a go fund me or someone here accept some E-Transfers from everyone and make the purchase on everyone's behalf?

    If I didn't just buy a house and have 2 kids I'd just VISA it for myself right now....

    Fuck... I still regret not (auction) winning a Fragile guitar or one of the Tour Keyboards. Wish TR would have waited until I matured and had more money... fuck I want a Fragile guitar.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by trollmanen View Post
    Update: the seller now has bidding starting at $100, and a Buy It Now for $1000. I'm guessing he now wants this to be sold as quickly as possible, given his earlier prices.
    Not sure if this was triggered by the fact that this shit is stolen and the original owner has reached out to him about said stolen shit OR the fact that, when I contacted him as a collector, I told him I'm not going to make an offer until I see proof the tapes are viewable and that no one in their right minds would.
    If we all pass the hat and buy one (or all) of these and they're unviewable, what then? Also, then we'd be the ones profitinging from something stolen from Carson. The right(-est?) thing to do, aside from contacting the cops, would be passing the hat to get the tapes back, then returning them to Carson. But, in talking to him, he doesn't seem interested in getting these back at all. It's not like his lost opus had been uncovered after two decades, these are some rough, potentially unviewable VHS tapes of stuff he shot and that was never used.

    I think, until the seller lowers his Buy It Now to $20 or provides some proof there are actual images on these tapes, we let him sit there in sweaty silence.
    Last edited by paul_guyet; 02-20-2018 at 02:37 PM.

  20. #50
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    this thread delivers. NIN fans never cease to amaze me.

  21. #51
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    I'm tempted to spend $100 and then hand the tape off to someone here who can potentially transfer it, if it's even viewable. I don't want to let someone profit off of stolen goods, but it doesn't seem like Carson is interested in getting this back. The other way to look at it is that the seller isn't in a position to see if they're viewable, and in all likelihood might even damage them trying to view them if he's not knowledgable. So trying to press that point and talk him down on the price seems like a good idea. The fact is that this guy has these tapes, however he came to possess them, and unless Carson steps in to stop him, he'll sell them. Someone is going to end up buying them, at some point for some price. I'd rather that be someone here who can then try to get this material out there for all the fans to view.

    Edit - someone has bid $100 on it, wasn't me.
    Last edited by trollmanen; 02-20-2018 at 08:34 PM.

  22. #52
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    Anyone know who bid on this? I'm willing to go toe to toe to get this for the collective but I don't want to end up in a bidding war with someone here if i can avoid it.

    I'm moving in about a week... so hopefully the seller is willing to delay shipment for me if I were to win.

    The only thing really going against me is that it ends at 2a cst and I like to do my bidding during the final moments.

  23. #53
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    I bid on it. Might know someone who could transfer it. Not going to go all out and get in a bid war on it though.
    Hoping to nab it cheap and get the footage out there
    Last edited by the_tic_begins; 02-20-2018 at 11:55 PM. Reason: Stupid phone keyboard

  24. #54
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    This guy is ADORABLE.

    Got this from the seller when I kept pressing for a sample to see if the video is even watchable anymore:

    New message from: scpostman34 (619)
    I went to a video shop to view the tape since I do not have a player and it s a video of ocean waves and underwater I think that s all that s on this tape I m sure it has something to do with the 9 nails though still a great collector piece has double value David Carson value and 9 now value
    So I told him I'm not interested in his DESCRIPTION of the footage but a SAMPLE of the footage and that if he just went back to that video shop (you know, that video shop that totally exists in 2018 and happens to have a PAL VCR) and got some footage on his phone that I'd make an offer. I told him the same goes for his other three tapes.

    Plus, I think we have the title of the third EP: #9NowValue

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_guyet View Post

    New message from: scpostman34 (619)
    the 9 nails
    Fabulous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3:15 View Post
    Fabulous.
    The Roadhouse is proud to welcome...

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    Same seller just listed a 2nd tape with sample shots. The first was PAL format, but the 2nd tape is apparently “not PAL version” (NTSC?). The seller also took the liberty to upload 2 of the pics from the new non-PAL tape auction to the 1st auction, which seems shady as fuck.

    Yes, they’re identical images:


  28. #58
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    There's a different image up in the new auction, coral image. Well at least we know they are viewable.

  29. #59
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    At first, I was like IDK. Then I checked out the listing, and saw that it was just video. I think a lot of us thought that it would basically be exactly what was projected onto the screens during the live shows.

    THEN I saw that the seller updated the listing and mentioned that there IS in fact MUSIC along with each clip. Which does make it a lot more interesting and collectible to me. The fact that there is audio AND video is pretty impressive. Clearly its a shame that this seller doesn't know anything about NIN, but I would be very interested to see what this footage, along with the audio paired up looks like.

  30. #60
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    Now that this seems legit, what do we think about chipping in, digitizing a copy for the community, and then returning the tape to Carson? Or at least asking if he wants it.
    The seller still makes money off work stolen from Carson, but at least, if we get it, we can get it back to him and add something pretty amazing to the NIN fan archives.
    Not 100% sure, but those images look like the concert footage from La Mer.

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