Vinyl Rerelease 2019 (With Teeth)

[Piko]

Not sure about the remixes. A reissue of Still would be great though.

[joel]

Not sure about the remixes. A reissue of Still would be great though.

FWIW, Trent did say they’d be releasing Still on vinyl at the reckless records interview. when is anybody’s guess.

[Piko]

FWIW, Trent did say they’d be releasing Still on vinyl at the reckless records interview. when is anybody’s guess.

There you go then. I'd have a hard time believing he would just pass over it. Maybe when he finishes the definitive editions of the main albums, we can get Still. Crossing my fingers anyway.

[OSPF]

Wow... This With Teeth DE sounds incredible.

[Erneuert]

Still waiting for a kind soul to take HQ photos of the With Teeth essay to read, please, if anyone gets time.

[Max]

FWIW, Trent did say they’d be releasing Still on vinyl at the reckless records interview. when is anybody’s guess.

I have said it before and I will say it again. When Trent (or any artist) says "I am going to do X" we hear "I promise and swear on my life that this is definitely going to happen, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow" and they mean "this is my intention because it is what I am feeling right now".

When that thing does not happen, you will sleep better if you just assume things changed. Watchmen soundtrack came up. Baby #5 came up. Life. Will it ever happen? Maybe, maybe not.

[allegate]

you made me think of The Fragile 5.1 and thus you have made me sad. A pox on you and your family.

[Piko]

Trent's been a lot more reliable these days. So, if he says he's going to do something, I have a lot more faith than I would've ten years ago.

[nmitchell86]

I really wished that with the release of this vinyl that they would have reissued some of the WT era t-shirts and hoodies. I would have bought them all!

[Erneuert]

Couldn’t decide whether to bump the NTAE thread or this one.

Anyway, new info about The Idea of You / originally being from these sessions:

https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...d=1#post485100

[neorev]

Couldn’t decide whether to bump the NTAE thread or this one.

Anyway, new info about The Idea of You / originally being from these sessions:

https://www.echoingthesound.org/comm...d=1#post485100

I called this back when NTAE first dropped. I believed NTAE was made up from unreleased material reworked as the albums callback to TDS/TF/WT era of the band, hence the reusing of old imagery and the TDS songs being on side B of NTAE vinyl. Dave Navarro is on Burning Bright, which makes me think it could've been recorded back when he did guitars for Piggy (Nothing Can Stop Me Now). Grohl was played on the WT sessions. She's Gone Away also sounds very TDS-ish production-wise. The lyric sheet had Reptile lyrics behind She's Gone Away lyrics. Perhaps these songs are linked in ways we don't even know, perhaps unused elements from Reptile or old lyrics not used. I always thought Not The Actual Events was a play on the saying "This is based on actual events," used for movies when they take an event from the past and turn it into something that doesn't necessarily represent what really happened, but spruce it up, modernize it, make it "Hollywood." These songs are based on unused elements from the past, reworked, remixed, and turned into what we hear now.

Damn, I wish I could hear those demos for Good Day and The End. Let's hope Trent has a WT Deviations planned with these tracks.

[piggy]

The lyric sheet had Reptile lyrics behind She's Gone Away lyrics. Perhaps these songs are linked in ways we don't even know, perhaps unused elements from Reptile or old lyrics not used.

There's a theory that the two songs are linked by Twin Peaks. "Reptile" is speculated to be partially inspired by the character of Laura Palmer (lyrical content and a musical nod to "Laura Palmer's Theme" during the breakdown), and of course "She's Gone Away" was used on TP.

[BRoswell]

Dave Navarro is on Burning Bright, which makes me think it could've been recorded back when he did guitars for Piggy (Nothing Can Stop Me Now). Grohl was played on the WT sessions.

Or...he just called those guys up and said "Hey, can you come into the studio for a day to work on a track?"

I'm not sure why their presence on the EP automatically means that Trent & Atticus used previously recorded material. Next you'll be telling me that Adrien Belew's contributions to Hesitation Marks were from The Downward Spiral just because it has connections to that album. Trent is friends with these guys. There's no reason to believe he couldn't get them to contribute new material. Also, why is it impossible that Trent & Atticus could make something that sounds Downward Spiral-ish again? Trent specifically said they were using instruments and techniques that they hadn't used in a while, and that didn't strike me as code for "we just used music we had locked up in the archives for this album". Not sure why he couldn't conjure up similar sounds if he actually wanted to.

And honestly, until we hear this "demo" version of The Idea Of You, I'm going to remain skeptical about its legitimacy.

[neorev]

Or...he just called those guys up and said "Hey, can you come into the studio for a day to work on a track?"

I'm not sure why their presence on the EP automatically means that Trent & Atticus used previously recorded material. Next you'll be telling me that Adrien Belew's contributions to Hesitation Marks were from The Downward Spiral just because it has connections to that album. Trent is friends with these guys. There's no reason to believe he couldn't get them to contribute new material. Also, why is it impossible that Trent & Atticus could make something that sounds Downward Spiral-ish again? Trent specifically said they were using instruments and techniques that they hadn't used in a while, and that didn't strike me as code for "we just used music we had locked up in the archives for this album". Not sure why he couldn't conjure up similar sounds if he actually wanted to.

And honestly, until we hear this "demo" version of The Idea Of You, I'm going to remain skeptical about its legitimacy.

No one is saying they completely used old songs, just that Trent heard demos and took elements or ideas from them. And, yes, he said he used instruments he hasn't used in a while. He could've pulled out an old synth from TDS or Fragile era and it had old presets he made on them that inspired him to make something new with it. Remember back when Trent said he found a whole collection of Fragile era demos he stumbled on. He seems pretty meticulous at saving all his material. It's not that difficult to think he'd be against borrowing a sound or riff or beat from old unused material if it inspired him. Hell, Trent and Atticus records loads of "jam sessions," than syphon through them later. You've heard Ghosts elements reused/reworked into score material. No one is saying they can't make anything TDS sounding again, they did with NTAE. As for Andrian Belew, I have no clue if he came in again for HM or perhaps they had loads of recorded material when he came in for Ghosts sessions. It's not like Trent hasn't reused previous album material before, just look at some tracks from With Teeth that turned into Year Zero tracks. But The Idea Of You clearly sounds like a With Teeth era song with production, instruments, and all. Out of all NTAE material, that one stood out to me the most. I only hear elements of TDS era on some NTAE tracks, but not really full on TDS. The only track that stuck out to me the most was The Idea Of You. It just sounds so With Teeth that you could stick it on WT and wouldn't have known it was released many years later. I can't exactly say that for the other songs, but just for certain techniques and sounds used. Again, it is not a radical idea for an artist to pillage through their old demos and reuse parts. Even Billy Corgan has taken old riffs from Pastachio Medley that became a Zeitgiest era track. Liam Howlett of The Prodigy has gone back to old ideas and reworked them into something new numerous times. It's not some crazy thing that an artist would do that.

[BRoswell]

No one is saying they completely used old songs, just that Trent heard demos and took elements or ideas from them. And, yes, he said he used instruments he hasn't used in a while. He could've pulled out an old synth from TDS or Fragile era and it had old presets he made on them that inspired him to make something new with it. Remember back when Trent said he found a whole collection of Fragile era demos he stumbled on. He seems pretty meticulous at saving all his material. It's not that difficult to think he'd be against borrowing a sound or riff or beat from old unused material if it inspired him. Hell, Trent and Atticus records loads of "jam sessions," than syphon through them later. You've heard Ghosts elements reused/reworked into score material. No one is saying they can't make anything TDS sounding again, they did with NTAE. As for Andrian Belew, I have no clue if he came in again for HM or perhaps they had loads of recorded material when he came in for Ghosts sessions. It's not like Trent hasn't reused previous album material before, just look at some tracks from With Teeth that turned into Year Zero tracks. But The Idea Of You clearly sounds like a With Teeth era song with production, instruments, and all. Out of all NTAE material, that one stood out to me the most. I only hear elements of TDS era on some NTAE tracks, but not really full on TDS. The only track that stuck out to me the most was The Idea Of You. It just sounds so With Teeth that you could stick it on WT and wouldn't have known it was released many years later. I can't exactly say that for the other songs, but just for certain techniques and sounds used. Again, it is not a radical idea for an artist to pillage through their old demos and reuse parts. Even Billy Corgan has taken old riffs from Pastachio Medley that became a Zeitgiest era track. Liam Howlett of The Prodigy has gone back to old ideas and reworked them into something new numerous times. It's not some crazy thing that an artist would do that.

Eh, that's still all speculation. Just because it sounds like With Teeth or The Downward Spiral doesn't automatically mean its from that era, especially when the guy who made those albums is at the helm. Also, if they reused material from those albums, why didn't they say so when they were doing press for it? Trent & Atticus were pretty open about it being a referential album, so why hide that they used material from the albums they were referencing?

[tricil]

No one is saying they completely used old songs, just that Trent heard demos and took elements or ideas from them. And, yes, he said he used instruments he hasn't used in a while. He could've pulled out an old synth from TDS or Fragile era and it had old presets he made on them that inspired him to make something new with it. Remember back when Trent said he found a whole collection of Fragile era demos he stumbled on. He seems pretty meticulous at saving all his material. It's not that difficult to think he'd be against borrowing a sound or riff or beat from old unused material if it inspired him. Hell, Trent and Atticus records loads of "jam sessions," than syphon through them later. You've heard Ghosts elements reused/reworked into score material. No one is saying they can't make anything TDS sounding again, they did with NTAE. As for Andrian Belew, I have no clue if he came in again for HM or perhaps they had loads of recorded material when he came in for Ghosts sessions. It's not like Trent hasn't reused previous album material before, just look at some tracks from With Teeth that turned into Year Zero tracks. But The Idea Of You clearly sounds like a With Teeth era song with production, instruments, and all. Out of all NTAE material, that one stood out to me the most. I only hear elements of TDS era on some NTAE tracks, but not really full on TDS. The only track that stuck out to me the most was The Idea Of You. It just sounds so With Teeth that you could stick it on WT and wouldn't have known it was released many years later. I can't exactly say that for the other songs, but just for certain techniques and sounds used. Again, it is not a radical idea for an artist to pillage through their old demos and reuse parts. Even Billy Corgan has taken old riffs from Pastachio Medley that became a Zeitgiest era track. Liam Howlett of The Prodigy has gone back to old ideas and reworked them into something new numerous times. It's not some crazy thing that an artist would do that.

This is dead on but it is a fact Adrian Belew came in for Hesitation Marks sessions. Him and his associate both have co-writing credits on the NIN fan favorite Everything and Adrian was an early member of the 2013 touring band before he was replaced by Robin.

[tricil]

I called this back when NTAE first dropped. I believed NTAE was made up from unreleased material reworked as the albums callback to TDS/TF/WT era of the band, hence the reusing of old imagery and the TDS songs being on side B of NTAE vinyl. Dave Navarro is on Burning Bright, which makes me think it could've been recorded back when he did guitars for Piggy (Nothing Can Stop Me Now). Grohl was played on the WT sessions. She's Gone Away also sounds very TDS-ish production-wise. The lyric sheet had Reptile lyrics behind She's Gone Away lyrics. Perhaps these songs are linked in ways we don't even know, perhaps unused elements from Reptile or old lyrics not used. I always thought Not The Actual Events was a play on the saying "This is based on actual events," used for movies when they take an event from the past and turn it into something that doesn't necessarily represent what really happened, but spruce it up, modernize it, make it "Hollywood." These songs are based on unused elements from the past, reworked, remixed, and turned into what we hear now.

Damn, I wish I could hear those demos for Good Day and The End. Let's hope Trent has a WT Deviations planned with these tracks.

She’s Gone Away is definitely new as the original song TR turned in for Twin Peaks was rejected.

David gave TR the instructions to “give me goosebumps” and TR wrote and delivered She’s Gone Away

[botley]

Yeah and his guitar tech confirmed that Dave Navarro recorded new stuff for NTAE.

[neorev]

Eh, that's still all speculation. Just because it sounds like With Teeth or The Downward Spiral doesn't automatically mean its from that era, especially when the guy who made those albums is at the helm. Also, if they reused material from those albums, why didn't they say so when they were doing press for it? Trent & Atticus were pretty open about it being a referential album, so why hide that they used material from the albums they were referencing?

Of course, it's all speculation.

[zecho]

There's no way that the CD posting user was telling the truth about the song. Exactly the same except for the lyrics? Come on, it sounds nothing like anything from that era. You're telling me that TR created a demo that was short listed for With Teeth that sounds absolutely nothing like anything on the rest of that album? And then a decade later records new material entirely in that style? Obvious bullshit. If any part of that song was recorded during the With Teeth sessions, it has been heavily edited since. No way it's "exactly the same" as what's on that CD. It's obvious.

[sonic_discord]

There's no way that the CD posting user was telling the truth about the song. Exactly the same except for the lyrics? Come on, it sounds nothing like anything from that era. You're telling me that TR created a demo that was short listed for With Teeth that sounds absolutely nothing like anything on the rest of that album? And then a decade later records new material entirely in that style? Obvious bullshit.

I'm not necessarily saying I agree that The Idea of You is from the With Teeth sessions, but what you just said about it not sounding like anything from With Teeth COULD be the reason it wasn't included on that album.

If any part of that song was recorded during the With Teeth sessions, it has been heavily edited since. No way it's "exactly the same" as what's on that CD. It's obvious.

I tend to agree that even if it were a left-over track, they've more than likely heavily edited it since its original state. Then again, Ghosts 38 wasn't TOO far removed from Demon Seed.

[tricil]

Bowie recorded Bring Me The Disco King for three different albums (Black Tie White Noise, Earthling) before finally making it on to Reality.

Stranger things have happened but I don’t doubt that some songs from “The Pile” aren’t scavenged for parts and/or revisited/reimagined at some point.

[paul_guyet]

Bowie recorded Bring Me The Disco King for three different albums (Black Tie White Noise, Earthling) before finally making it on to Reality.

Stranger things have happened but I don’t doubt that some songs from “The Pile” aren’t scavenged for parts and/or revisited/reimagined at some point.

Agreed, 100%. Until Reznor comments or that dude posts these four unreleased NIN songs, this is just speculation.

[piggy]

All I know is that Rob was explicitly asked about "The Idea of You" being recycled from the WT sessions, and while he felt that he couldn't say anything revelatory, he also didn't debunk it.

[Erneuert]

All I know is that Rob was explicitly asked about "The Idea of You" being recycled from the WT sessions, and while he felt that he couldn't say anything revelatory, he also didn't debunk it.

I’d take that as a yes.

[pcpunk]

I’d take that as a shrug.

[implanted_microchip]

I see no reason why the backbone of Idea of You (which would especially include the drums) couldn’t be from With Teeth and then refined much later on into the song we got. There’s no reason to think Rob knows every nugget of trivia from then especially when he spent well over a decade working on everything and has since spent many years away and also he could absolutely feel it’s not his place to share songwriting details on music he wasn’t writing for. Scraps of sound, individual instrument tracks and melodies can go unused but stuck in a head for years before finding a place. Just look at how much of Radiohead’s material originates from the 95-99 era of theirs and yet changed dramatically over time.

Not the Actual Events is definitely an intentional funhouse mirror amalgamation of past and present ideas scraping against each other existing as all fragments of the same ball of wax of art from Trent Reznor’s head and culminating in arguably the best EP he and crew have ever made. If someone has early versions I’d love to hear them but I don’t see the point in fighting over origin points of an EP we know was made out of songs all connecting across different styles and even made for separate reasons, from TV shows to personal tracks.

[pcpunk]

I don’t doubt that previous work gets redone and released as something else later. Look no further than Demonseed and 38 Ghosts as an example. But without either the person whom owns the disc uploading it or Trent confirming it, we can’t know. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Rob heard any number of tracks in their infancy that changed before release. Hell, Somewhat Damaged got reworked and lyrically changed at the 11th hour. But Rob has been gone from the NIN camp for a while. He may not be the best source to confirm or debunk.

Having said all that nonsense, I would love to hear the different takes and versions of tracks that didn’t get released just to hear what might have been.

[tricil]

In all likelihood, Rob might not even know how “The Idea of You” or any of the songs post his work even goes.

[cdm]

But Rob has been gone from the NIN camp for a while. He may not be the best source to confirm or debunk.

I'm not sure about this song in particular but he's been asked about his knowledge of unreleased and otherwise rearranged works. He says it's not his place to comment.