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Thread: Trump 2018

  1. #421
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    his, response surprises absolutely no one. will be the on-going narrative on square head sponge pants hannity for the next three weeks. The bigger story is incontrovertible evidence of Russian meddling. and the indictment of the 13. which got about zero news time. Cheetos silence on the matter. expect to see some Russian operatives suddenly disappeared.
    -Louie

  2. #422
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    the idiot is an absolute embarrassment, Gates is flipping on Manafort, i hope the noose is tightening, of course he's scared takes Mjollnir proportions. I'm sure he is putting together a case tighter than a frogs butt.we'll see. yo twitter to rant about Oprah? . I think mueller is getting ready drop the hammer of Mjollnir proportions. I'm sure he is putting together a case tighter than a frogs butt.we'll see.

    -Louie

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  4. #424
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    https://twitter.com/dnvolz/status/966762297787125760

    SCOOP: Speaker Ryan and the Trump White House are getting rid of the current chairman of the Election Assistance Commission, a Boehner-picked official who has spent the past year helping states bulletproof election systems from Russian hackers.
    huh.

  5. #425
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    https://twitter.com/AriMelber/status/967092805331013637

    Ari MelberVerified account @AriMelber 5h5 hours agoMore



    Breaking: Former Trump Campaign official, Rick Gates, pleading guilty to intentionally conspiring against the United States, and to misleading Mueller’s FBI investigators. Significant.
    https://twitter.com/CNN/status/967132609213009920

    CNNVerified account @CNN 2h2 hours agoMore



    Former Trump campaign official Rick Gates pleaded guilty to two criminal charges in special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential campaign and related activities http://cnn.it/2EQ8nHN
    Oh yeah, it's Friday.

  6. #426
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    So they hope to get their intel from.....the guy who is admitting to lying to them? I feel like that's quite the trust exercise.

  7. #427
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    I'm not a Trump supporter or extreme hater, however....

    Trump's proposal for teachers to be armed and trained with firearms is by far the stupidest fucking shit that's came out of his presidency in my opinion. It even beats the wall idea.

    Besides, if it's enacted and goes into effect, potential shooters will know that teachers will be armed so the element of surprise wouldn't even be there. Shooters would be able to outwit and make precautions before said teacher even managed to unlock the drawer/cabinet and load the weapon. It's truly an astoundingly stupid idea.
    Last edited by Space Suicide; 02-23-2018 at 08:21 PM.

  8. #428
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    His stupidity continues to astound me as it just shows that he is willing to top himself in terms of how stupid he is. I often refer to him as El Stupido.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Suicide View Post
    I'm not a Trump supporter or extreme hater, however....

    Trump's proposal for teachers to be armed and trained with firearms is by far the stupidest fucking shit that's came out of his presidency in my opinion. It even beats the wall idea.

    Besides, if it's enacted and goes into effect, potential shooters will know that teachers will be armed so the element of surprise wouldn't even be there. Shooters would be able to outwit and make precautions before said teacher even managed to unlock the drawer/cabinet and load the weapon. It's truly an astoundingly stupid idea.
    so many holes makes Swiss cheese look like solid somehow swat and the cops will magically know. anyone who ever thinks trump isn't an idiot and in way over his head i have some fragile videos yo sell you
    -Louie

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Yup.

    ďRussiagateĒ isnít about Russiaís economy; itís about Russiaís attempts to fuck with our election, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY Trumpís possible attempts to obstruct the investigation (and why).

    I think because English isnít his first language, sometimes stuff is lost in translation. Like, C-Span.
    Both the Republican and the Democratic establishment know they are losing to people like Bernie Sanders and of course Donald Trump...the Russiagate scandal is a desperate way of ensuring the centrists stay in power.
    CNN are acting like state media in repressive authoritarian countries.

    Russia DID spend money trying to tilt the election in Trumps favour but not enough to sway 62 Million people, nobody in America watches Russia Today, and i dont think a few posts on newspaper comment sections would have made much of a difference.

    Nothing will come out of this Russiagate bullshit and America will come out looking worse, trust will be eroded...CNN and MSNBC are the ones doing Putins work.

    Russia did not do much, but they have made America look mental.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    Both the Republican and the Democratic establishment know they are losing to people like Bernie Sanders and of course Donald Trump...the Russiagate scandal is a desperate way of ensuring the centrists stay in power.
    CNN are acting like state media in repressive authoritarian countries.

    Russia DID spend money trying to tilt the election in Trumps favour but not enough to sway 62 Million people, nobody in America watches Russia Today, and i dont think a few posts on newspaper comment sections would have made much of a difference.

    Nothing will come out of this Russiagate bullshit and America will come out looking worse, trust will be eroded...CNN and MSNBC are the ones doing Putins work.

    Russia did not do much, but they have made America look mental.
    Who said Russia swayed 62 million people? Trump "won" the election by a few hundred thousand across the country - meaning a handful here, a handful there - and in "swing states" that were heavily targeted by Russian trolls. They made America look mental because enough of America was fucking stupid enough to let their attack work.

    CNN is doing "Putin's work"? Dude, take the tinfoil hat off. I have the feeling that I could point out source after source after source after source after source that says otherwise and that wouldn't change your mind, so I'm not going to waste the effort.

  12. #432
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    this is pretty good piece

    -louie

  13. #433
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    Nobody (or, at least, not many) thinks that Russia caused Trump to win.

    But Russia is still a problem.

    And there is now hard evidence that a lot of the REASON why Americans have gone so “mental” is due to the Russians, by design.

    Have you SEEN some of the ads / propaganda they planted here (are still planting) via social media?

    A picture of a crying woman draped across her veteran husband’s American-flag-covered casket, and the blurb below it quotes “Killary” Clinton (from the Benghazi hearings), “what difference does it make?” The ad says “Let’s show the Democrats that veterans make a difference” (or something similar) and the organization looks legit like “AmericanVets.com” but the FBI traced it back to this Russian company and it’s STILL being used even though Clinton isn’t even running for anything. And it’s now a perpetual meme, unwittingly picked up and spread on social media. And these types of “seed” ads were planted in various ways against Rubio, Clinton, Cruz, Black Lives Matter, Pro-NRA (even though Russia isn’t too into gun rights), and they even found a lot of evidence of Russian players planting these types of seeds online back to “Gamergate.” The Russian company’s goal is discord and destabilization.

    The FBI found evidence that this Russian company organized not only a pro-Trump rally but also an ANTI-Trump rally, in NYC, ON THE SAME DAY.

    They found legit-looking Facebook and Twitter accounts spreading propaganda e.g. anti-Black Lives Matter, as well as having active members spreading “seeds” on places like reddit.

    Al-quada attacked the WTC on Sept 11 not to invade or conquer our country but to destabilize it, and they succeeded. I would say that Russia has also succeeded.

    We Americans were wondering where all this vitriol and anger was coming from, and we were blaming social media; the FBI just proved that there is also another more sinister reason.

    What I LOVE, now, is Americans’ knowledge of this and the power it’s bringing, and skepticism of what’s online.

    Read the comments on Trump’s Twitter feed.

    Where it USED to be about 98% “MAGA President Trump, we love you!” It is now about 98% “You are a liar, you are going to prison, IT’S MUELLER TIME!” etc.

    And when a Trump fan appears, the response is (hilariously): RUSSIAN BOT!

    Lol lol lol

    My favorite was:

    STFU, Sputnik

    Here’s what @Exocet doesn’t get: Trump isn’t a Republican. He’s a Trumpist. He got DEMOCRAT UNION MEMBERS to vote for him (who are still registered Democrats) because Trump is NOT too right wing, to them he’s just “Trump” (and they haven’t figured out that he’s full of shit, yet). But Trump won by only about 76,000 votes. NOBODY thinks Russia got Trump elected. Not even the FBI. Republicans elected him, with the help of some Democrats who crossed over.

    This country is NOT like Europe with “right” or “left” or “center.”

    We are totally TRIBAL with only TWO tribes: Democrats and Republicans. The only way Trump or Sanders could win was to join one of the two tribes. Now Trump can’t get most of his agenda passed because the Republican Party is splintered into different factions and 7-8 extreme conservatives can hold things up in the Senate. Out of 49 of them. (Two of them have been out)
    Last edited by allegro; 02-24-2018 at 05:03 PM.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Nobody (or, at least, not many) thinks that Russia caused Trump to win.

    But Russia is still a problem.

    And there is now hard evidence that a lot of the REASON why Americans have gone so “mental” is due to the Russians, by design.

    Have you SEEN some of the ads / propaganda they planted here (are still planting) via social media?

    A picture of a crying woman draped across her veteran husband’s American-flag-covered casket, and the blurb below it quotes “Killary” Clinton (from the Benghazi hearings), “what difference does it make?” The ad says “Let’s show the Democrats that veterans make a difference” (or something similar) and the organization looks legit like “AmericanVets.com” but the FBI traced it back to this Russian company and it’s STILL being used even though Clinton isn’t even running for anything. And it’s now a perpetual meme, unwittingly picked up and spread on social media. And these types of “seed” ads were planted in various ways against Rubio, Clinton, Cruz, Black Lives Matter, Pro-NRA (even though Russia isn’t too into gun rights), and they even found a lot of evidence of Russian players planting these types of seeds online back to “Gamergate.” The Russian company’s goal is discord and destabilization.

    The FBI found evidence of that this Russian company organized not only a pro-Trump rally but also an ANTI-Trump rally, in NYC, ON THE SAME DAY.

    They found legit-looking Facebook and Twitter accounts spreading propaganda e.g. anti-Black Lives Matter, as well as having active members spreading “seeds” on places like reddit.

    Al-quada attacked the WTC on Sept 11 not to invade or conquer our country but to destabilize it, and they succeeded. I would say that Russia has also succeeded.

    We Americans were wondering where all this vitriol and anger was coming from, and we were blaming social media; the FBI just proved that there is also another more sinister reason.

    What I LOVE, now, is Americans’ knowledge of this and the power it’s bringing, and skepticism of what’s online.

    Read the comments on Trump’s Twitter feed.

    Where it USED to be about 98% “MAGA President Trump, we love you!” It is now about 98% “You are a liar, you are going to prison, IT’S MUELLER TIME!” etc.

    And when a Trump fan appears, the response is (hilariously): RUSSIAN BOT!

    Lol lol lol

    My favorite was:

    STFU, Sputnik

    Here’s what @Exocet doesn’t get: Trump isn’t a Republican. He’s a Trumpist. He got DEMOCRAT UNION MEMBERS to vote for him (who are still registered Democrats) because Trump is NOT too right wing, to them he’s just “Trump” (and they haven’t figured out that he’s full of shit, yet). But Trump won by only about 76,000 votes. NOBODY thinks Russia got Trump elected. Not even the FBI. Republicans elected him, with the help of some Democrats who crossed over.

    This country is NOT like Europe with “right” or “left” or “center.”

    We are totally TRIBAL with only TWO tribes: Democrats and Republicans. The only way Trump or Sanders could win was to join one of the two tribes. Now Trump can’t get most of his agenda passed because the Republican Party is splintered into different factions and 7-8 extreme conservatives can hold things up in the Senate. Out of 49 of them.
    lengthy reply so bear with me if you can what did the Russians want what did Putin want and why Trump? first Putin. before the fall of the Soviet Union and KGB. he had total complete and unquestioned power. from running the russain mafia to directing policy. he wanted that back. i think he sees the fall of the USSR. as a failure and embarrassment.USSR fell through internal division. i think he wanted to see theUS suffer the same fate. I feel the started grooming trump as far back as 2016. through miss universe pageants and trump tower in Moscow. they knew of his admiration for Putin, that he wasn't that smart as well as his sexual predatory nature. by contrast hillary and Putin did not get along. going all the way back to the misguided reset gaff by. hillary. they knew his was in financial deep water through the Moscow tower deal they also as we just learned both gates Frankfort, and probably Kushner were also in the same boat. so you have a core team that is susceptible to bribes. In 202 at a Russian security conference they announced that they announced that they had successfully weaponized social media. which they called the A bomb of the 21st century. what does Putin want? not only the Urkrian but Syria for the oil and fall of the west. sound like something out of a bond movie. he is worthy of being a bond super villain. don't like him but most certainly respect him. he grew up in the KGB. basically installing himself as dictator without the use of military or firing a shot. so we'd better wake up get used to reading Cyrillic and saying comrade a lot. there is a lot more i wanted to add and link everything. but...
    -Louie

  15. #435
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    Thing is, Russia played us against ourselves. These companies rather effortlessly blended in and used real and fictitious American personas to become Americans and kinda held up a mirror of the ugly side of America and used it as a magnification of that ugly side so that we'd do this to ourselves. Because we're that stupid. It's easy to do, without any real effort, because Facebook and social media, in general, is a cesspool of gullible stupid. (Ps, you didn't have to quote my entire post, there, Louie)

    Last edited by allegro; 02-24-2018 at 01:10 PM.

  16. #436
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    The "establishment" Republicans lost relatively few to Donald Trump. So far, Trump has only about 32% of Republicans as his solid "base" and that's held pretty steady.

    32%

    That's not "establishment" Republicans.

    Trump won because the vast majority of Republicans would NEVER vote for a Democrat, let alone a Clinton.

    Bernie Sanders wasn't even a DEMOCRAT until he ran for President, and he STILL doesn't have any "establishment" Democrats backing him, and he ESPECIALLY still doesn't have base Democrats backing him; instead, a large percentage of Democrats are actually seeking a new, young, fresh voice, and many younger voters are even looking for independent, non-party candidates, outside the Democrat/Republican tribe. (which will likely never happen for the new few lifetimes)

    Trump used to be a Democrat, and contributed to the Democratic party for years. Many Republicans still consider him a RINO. Ditto for Democrats considering Bernie a DINO.
    Last edited by allegro; 02-24-2018 at 01:19 PM.

  17. #437
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    It truly baffles me how uneducated this poor excuse of a president is.

    It's like he honestly believes that he is always right and people just lap it up because "he's the pres...he wouldn't lie to us." sure, Nixon, Clinton and Bush have no idea what you are talking about.

    No what i hate about most politicians...and this mostly happens to the right side.

    I despise that they can claim something...like this shit is fake...not true...a lie...and most of the time not prove a damn thing about it, use actual stuff from people who spent their life's researching this stuff...but they can just say its not real....and people will believe it....just on that reason alone.

    Now im sure the left side has done this...just dont know any atm, but this reason NEEDS TO FUCKING STOP.

    You remember that whole thing about Autism and Vaccines? Well do you remember what happened when we tried stopping it?

    Kids started dying from common diseases. Not to mention...it comes off as assuming that you wouldn't like your child if they were Autistic like I am

    Its shit like this that causes more problems and i never see them admit their wrong doing. Gotta keep a reputation it seems then keeping people safe

    Cause you know...merica

  18. #438
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    Bernie was hardly a Dino, we wassn't taking PAC was against the banks and health insurance companies, which the establishment DNC hated thought they'd lose owners or downer's as I like to call the when he held his town hall on medicare for all which was really informative and good he ha to show it on Facebook because no major network would run. curious about who running the country, watching the Olympics who's running adverts big pharma US army. very proud of the teens in FL. who are standing up to the politicians. I want to think if we survive Trump. he will not go quietly, which strangely makes me think twice about gun control. as the Chinese curse goes "may you live in interesting times".
    I'm not so scared of trump it's his supporters that worry me.
    -Louie

  19. #439
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    Bernie was a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) in that he had never done any Democratic fundraising for the party and only ran on the ticket so he had a chance; it’s not a derogatory term, it’s a fact. He was proud to have been an independent.

    Ultimately, all politicians will only do what they’re forced to do.

    Those high school kids have started a true movement, demanding safety; they’re also nearly 18 (if not already) so they are the future voters. Already, we are seeing voters controlling the NRA, rather than the other way around. Advertisers and corporations are cutting ties with the NRA.

    Voters can effect the same kind of change re big pharma, healthcare costs, etc.
    Last edited by allegro; 02-24-2018 at 04:59 PM.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exocet View Post
    Russia DID spend money trying to tilt the election in Trumps favour but not enough to sway 62 Million people
    Trump didn't win by 62 million votes, he lost by 3 million. NOBODY is implying that every Trump voter was swayed by Russian propaganda.

    nobody in America watches Russia Today
    not fucking true. I saw a ton of my friends posting RT videos on social media leading up to the election, many of them Sanders supporters. Think what you want, but you are completely fucking wrong here.

    and i dont think a few posts on newspaper comment sections would have made much of a difference.
    We'll never know how effective that was I guess, but it still fucking happened and that matters.

  21. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    Nobody (or, at least, not many) thinks that Russia caused Trump to win.
    I would argue that *maybe* - and this is a genuine maybe - they did. Like you said, people were voting for Trump because they just hated Hillary (or any Democrat) with a passion. But were the anti-Clinton Russian propaganda tactics so effective that just enough people who may have sat on their butts at home and not voted at all decided to instead get up and vote for "anyone but her"? Maybe the sheer hatred for Clinton in parts of the Republican base was stoked enough to take apathetic non-voters and turn them into protest voters?

    This really and truly is a "maybe" from me. I'm not implying it's the case. I just wonder about it sometimes.

  22. #442
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    hillary was a horrible candidate, the democrat's basically anointed her because she lost to Obama she was a woman and had the last name of Clinton, but to much baggage, lot's of shady things with her and the Clinton foundation. she herself said they the were broke from leagle fees. i think people after eight years of Obama, an offal lot of unkempt promises. the unrelenting noise from bullshit mountain (fox news). length of the election cycle. and yes russain trolls. people were confused. and fatigued. she had no ground game and no real message. i actually painted about a dozen clothespins red white and blue to sell, give out at polling places. I actually voted green would have voted librarian, if i knew who the candidate was. ignorance and apathy are very dangerous. I hope more porple will get invoked, and we have a real choice.
    -louie

  23. #443
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    interested page to look at during the sunday moring talk as it focuses om guns http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-m...licans-2012-12
    -Louuie

  24. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louie_Cypher View Post
    hillary was a horrible candidate, the democrat's basically anointed her because she lost to Obama she was a woman and had the last name of Clinton, but to much baggage, lot's of shady things with her and the Clinton foundation. she herself said they the were broke from leagle fees. i think people after eight years of Obama, an offal lot of unkempt promises. the unrelenting noise from bullshit mountain (fox news). length of the election cycle. and yes russain trolls. people were confused. and fatigued. she had no ground game and no real message. i actually painted about a dozen clothespins red white and blue to sell, give out at polling places. I actually voted green would have voted librarian, if i knew who the candidate was. ignorance and apathy are very dangerous. I hope more porple will get invoked, and we have a real choice.
    -louie
    I don't think Hillary was really as bad as people say. There was a lot of mud thrown at her, and a lot still being thrown at her.

    Mud can be thrown at any politician, but to have it still happening almost a year and a half after she lost the election is very unusual. I guess Trump needs someone to try and redirect anger towards.

  25. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by theimage13 View Post
    Like you said, people were voting for Trump because they just hated Hillary (or any Democrat) with a passion.
    No, I said that people pretty much always vote for Presidential candidates who are in their own Tribe: Democrats and Republicans.

    I said that Republicans are always "never a Democrat" but this time it was also "and ESPECIALLY NOT A CLINTON" but they would have never voted for a Democrat, anyway. There were a few exceptions, like George H.W. Bush, who is friends with the Clintons, but for the most part, no. Some Republicans did not vote for Trump but they didn't vote for Clinton; instead, they wrote in a candidate. Many Republican Trump voters voted for the first time in their lives, motivated either by Trump's "drain the swamp" anti-politics stance, or by his Realty TV personality, or simply to keep Clinton out.

    And the Democrats are the same way, never a Republican Presidential candidate, except this time some Democrats made an exception for a Republican because, to them, Trump "isn't really a Republican." But the Democrats who didn't like Clinton just stayed home and didn't vote at all. If you look at the Democratic voting stats between Obama and Clinton, it's astounding how many more Democratic voters Obama got to the polls, particularly minority and women voters. And Trump actually did better with blacks and hispanics than Romney, that's how bad Romney did with minorities.

    I'm not sure that there's really such a thing as a "swing" Presidential voter in this day. People feel too strongly about key platform elements like abortion, civil rights, "entitlements," taxes, gun control, etc. to just throw their votes in either direction based on personalities or promises. The base platform and the party behind it still matter too much to people for them to be truly "swing" voters. They either vote Tribe or stay home.

    What's wrong with RUSSIA isn't whether or not they actually DID anything; it's that they TRIED. It's that they might have FINANCIAL agreements with a candidate's campaign team for FINANCIAL longterm benefits (e.g. oil and/or real estate developments in said country, and/or promises not to impose sanctions in exchange for oil and/or real estate developments. Etc. Etc. Etc.) Just because people scream NO COLLUSION 5,000 times doesn't mean there actual wasn't or isn't any. This investigation has to be sure.
    Last edited by allegro; 02-25-2018 at 01:36 PM.

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    I refuse to accept Trump as an actual and/or intentional pawn of Putin until I see evidence specifically proving it.

    I think Russia helped him and probably set him up to some extent as his team did have relations with "Russians". But some people want to make it seem as though Trump is Putin's plant, taking it too far. Putin, imo, wants a destabilized American government - he wants a four year term. With Trump being the controversial candidate he was more likely to rock the boat and create the premises for a four year term as opposed to Hillary.

    This is separate from my political views. I'm for state/individual-power over federal power on quite a bit of issues but hate what's happening to the illegal/legal immigrant community.

    Him and his team, and liberals too, are dirty af. But it's not necessarily Putin-Dirt.

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    I'm not going to quote allegro's entire post again, but this is for the most part true, i think the everyday people could give less a crap about politics, and are too busy trying to survive to look into were their vote goes. we right now are in this tribal phase and vote our 'team" most people don't go beyond, what they catch in passing. gym, TV or radio. bullshit mountain knows this, limp burger, and square head sponge pants, know thisand dowhat they tells them. they also know the average person is to lazy, stupid or busy to fact check them. the ultimate "bread and circus". most people don't know much about much beyond what they learned in high-school civics or something they saw on "west wing". so they rely on political farts like twitter and face book. the Russians understood this. we I say to people your local elections have a bigger effect on you then federal. they look at me the same way my dog/cat does when i show it a card trick. my first wife( yes someone was crazy enough to attempt to spend their life with me. but I digress). she was a poly sci major. and I would sometimes write a fair amount of her papers for her. I had been a fan of HST. so I found things like the prince. and rolling stones political pieces compelling. look I'm not better than anyone else here. I watch my fair share of the young Turks.and get at least one email a day from Nancy or the DNC. but I do try and go a little beneath the surface and not spoon fed all my views. i find the right tends to accept whatever is fed to them, this includes sadly people in my own family. I actually did give trump a chance. in the curious watching a car crash or train wreck way. and he was what we thought he was. an intellectual incurious bratty rich boy who's had everything handed to him. when there was a national tradgetry. regardless of what you think about Obama. ( and I have my issues with him too) but he put things in human terms. talking about his kids and family.even on the campaign trail did trump ever mention his family, except for ivanka , but that's just makes me cringe. if anything Obama was the opposite of trump being to self aware. aware he was the first black or half black president which but him under the microscope, which marginalized his effectiveness. i think he was far less progressive, than expectations led people to believe, especially by his second term. sorry for the long posts. but applying to graduate programs so busy righting essay's and bleeding over or nin board through. I went to home depot to find some essays. but because of Ice and DACCA i couldn't find any(hat tip south park). not back to reasons why i should be accepted to this illustrious and prestigious program.
    -Louie
    Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 02-25-2018 at 02:56 PM. Reason: wonder how i'm going to get into a gradute program when my grammer and spelling sucks

  28. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    No, I said that people pretty much always vote for Presidential candidates who are in their own Tribe: Democrats and Republicans.

    I said that Republicans are always "never a Democrat" but this time it was also "and ESPECIALLY NOT A CLINTON" but they would have never voted for a Democrat, anyway. There were a few exceptions, like George H.W. Bush, who is friends with the Clintons, but for the most part, no. Some Republicans did not vote for Trump but they didn't vote for Clinton; instead, they wrote in a candidate. Many Republican Trump voters voted for the first time in their lives, motivated either by Trump's "drain the swamp" anti-politics stance, or by his Realty TV personality, or simply to keep Clinton out.

    And the Democrats are the same way, never a Republican Presidential candidate, except this time some Democrats made an exception for a Republican because, to them, Trump "isn't really a Republican." But the Democrats who didn't like Clinton just stayed home and didn't vote at all. If you look at the Democratic voting stats between Obama and Clinton, it's astounding how many more Democratic voters Obama got to the polls, particularly minority and women voters. And Trump actually did better with blacks and hispanics than Romney, that's how bad Romney did with minorities.

    I'm not sure that there's really such a thing as a "swing" Presidential voter in this day. People feel too strongly about key platform elements like abortion, civil rights, "entitlements," taxes, gun control, etc. to just throw their votes in either direction based on personalities or promises. The base platform and the party behind it still matter too much to people for them to be truly "swing" voters. They either vote Tribe or stay home.

    What's wrong with RUSSIA isn't whether or not they actually DID anything; it's that they TRIED. It's that they might have FINANCIAL agreements with a candidate's campaign team for FINANCIAL longterm benefits (e.g. oil and/or real estate developments in said country, and/or promises not to impose sanctions in exchange for oil and/or real estate developments. Etc. Etc. Etc.) Just because people scream NO COLLUSION 5,000 times doesn't mean there actual wasn't or isn't any. This investigation has to be sure.
    I think we're saying the same thing, and I'm just not being clear about it. My suggestion was just that instead of a Republican voting for nobody because they just didn't care, they voted Republican because the Evil Democrat was painted to be even worse than every other Evil Democrat who ever lived - and that maybe those otherwise non-voters helped tip things. And in this era, that's also who I would call a swing voter - not someone who is literally open to voting for THE candidate, regardless of party, who aligns with their views - but someone who just can be convinced to go from sitting on their ass and not doing anything to being filled with such a seething rage over the "opposition" candidate that they feel compelled to cast their party-line ballot. I get that that's not the widely (or ever) used definition of a swing voter, but given how low our turnout is in virtually every election, I'd say it's an appropriate phrase.

    And yeah, one of the biggest problems I have with this presidency is that it seems to be nothing more than a business transaction for Trump. He doesn't want to govern. He wants to expand his family dynasty - and there is a strong suspicion of some extremely shady "you scratch my back / I'll scratch yours" shit going on with other countries.

  29. #449
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    @Louie_Cypher

    Off topic but I swear...i feel like im reading the booklet of Badmotorfinger...all jammed packed and shit.

    Is your enter key broken?

    I mean this without any offence

  30. #450
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    that Made me smile thanks
    -Louie

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