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Turtlemaster.
Hell yeah, standing by Big Business is exactly why I voted for Democrats! </s>Originally Posted by theimage13
Active Member
What part of that article is about standing by big business?
Turtlemaster.
I mean, the whole thing, really. I just don't see why this cause is particularly worth celebrating. Usually liberals would be up in arms, or at least pretty concerned, about a big company like Amazon that dodges so many taxes, pays its workers too little, etc., or a two large media/communications corporations joining forces. But as soon as they become Trump's targets, it's like people flock to defending them, because everything Trump does has to be more Evil than anything else.
I'm not saying that Trump's claims that Amazon is ruining the USPS are correct -- in fact, they're likely benefiting from each other -- but if Amazon could pay a bit more and help the USPS a bit more, I don't see a problem with that, regardless where Trump's rage is coming from (i.e. Washington Post-related or not). His hatred of Amazon is one of the few things I agree with him on, and it's baffling that so many people seem to be defending Amazon now just because Trump's against them. As for the AT&T-Time Warner merger, sure, maybe it's not the worst American merger ever, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be subject to heavy scrutiny, and I don't personally like mergers that big either.
But that's beside the point. My main point is -- it's weird to see people defending these companies and seemingly rallying around these potential investigations as if it's really important to them. Maybe it's a good thing altogether, but your comment came off like a hallelujah, and it seemed like a continuation of this kind of attitude (i.e. cheering on anything that happens to be against Trump in any way) that has just been grating on me. I was trying to concisely point out what I felt was hypocrisy, but in retrospect, apologies if it came off as dickish; I'm not good at this whole Internet thing yet.
Active Member
My point was that they're investigating. Not protecting, not helping - investigating. Looking into Trump's actions and seeing whether they were illegal.
To me, this has literally nothing to do with helping big business. I don't even care WHICH businesses are involved in this. The whole point is that for the first time in two years, someone can see whether a sketchy looking act by the president is actually sketchy or not, instead of just ignoring it and moving on to the next potentially sketchy thing. It's all about checks and balances and accountability.
And for the record, as far as Amazon goes, I'm pretty pissed off about the tax benefits they received for their new HQ plans. They're a fucking TRILLION dollar company. They don't need a single cent from state governments.
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I understand the general gist of what you're getting at with this post and I respect where you're coming from, but I also think you're just a little off the mark. I feel like you're basically arguing that people shouldn't fall into some kind of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" fallacy (something I agree with), but I don't think that's what's going on here.
I think what you're saying would make more sense if Trump was going against those companies because he wanted them to be more ethical and treat their employees more fairly (a sentiment that would be wildly out of character for him). If people started attacking Trump for that, then sure, you'd have a point. But there's no way that Trump gives a shit about Amazon employees, so it kinda seems like he must have other motives. Trump regularly calls the media "the enemy of the people" and constantly threatens to retaliate against them, talking about changing the libel laws, shit like that. So if he's going after these companies in an effort to stifle the free press, then it certainly wouldn't be hypocritical of anyone on the left to view that as a threat to our rights and to try and stop him.
I personally think the "enemy of my enemy" fallacy that you were talking about applies more to the newfound love of the CIA and the FBI that you see more and more from certain Democrats and liberals. The CIA is a horrific organization that has a documented history of murdering and torturing people for many decades now, so I don't really care if Trump and the U.S. intelligence community have a mutual dislike of each other. I'm not going to all of a sudden become a cheerleader for the fucking CIA. And I think it's bizarre to see all these supposedly left-wing people singing their praises.
Active Member
No more different than the sudden Republican/Russian love turn.
Turtlemaster.
Okay, we seem to be on similar pages then -- my bad. I've been seeing so much crap on Facebook of liberal friends suddenly becoming Amazon fanboys overnight and at first glance this seemed like more of the same. Sorry for leaping to that conclusion. As I said, I'm not against these investigations taking place, and I am also happy that there will potentially be some accountability here; I just thought you were cheering them on for other reasons. (The accountability aspect also didn't come to mind at first because I usually think of his many other corruptions/potential investigations first.)
You're totally right, and I agree with everything you're saying here -- I had just been misunderstanding theimage13's point! For what it's worth, I definitely HAVE seen some people suddenly become Amazon fanboys overnight because of this, so I'd originally thought this was just more of the same -- my apologies. It had just been really grating on me. I agree that Trump definitely does not care at all about how Amazon treats its employees, and that his vendetta against them is almost certainly due to the Washington Post, but I hadn't interpreted this as being about accountability.
Alright, back to lurking for me. :P
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Hey don't worry, it's all good. It was a good post, and a good convo.
Too Privileged to Get It
So Trump is saying he likes Pelosi and can somehow convince house Republicans to support her as Speaker.
https://elections.ap.org/content/tru...is-speaker-bid
I'm going to come right out and say that it looks like a ploy. I'm guessing the plan is to make her look tainted to more liberal Democrats, so when they refuse to support her he can keep pointing the finger and calling them obstructionists.
Bite me
Watched Meet the Press on Sunday, the Democrats don’t really have any other good options who have Nancy’s negotiating experience, skills and monumental fundraising abilities. I suspect Trump doesn’t want a newb in there who won’t negotiate on anything (so absolutely nothing gets passed). Which is what will happen; he’ll veto everything.
MtP discusses how Rep. Marcia Fudge met with Pelosi last week about the possibility of Fudge running for the Speaker position, and Fudge wanted to know what was involved; Pelosi probably whipped out her huge Rolodex and her calendar and went over the contacts and fundraising schedule, and Rep. Fudge said she isn’t sure she wants to invest THAT much time.
Pelosi takes unfair heat, but Schumer is the weak leader. If it wasn’t for Pelosi, there’d be no ACA, and most Democratic candidates wouldn’t get the campaign funding that they do, and Pelosi gets the votes on the floor.
Last edited by allegro; 11-19-2018 at 12:05 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
just wish I’d see more of this in general lately... might seem out of character for me, but I’ve realized that this stark polarization in political discourse between oppposing opinions has gotten nuts... fuck “agreeing to disagree” it’s now more like “kill yourself and die in a fire, even though we’re 90% on the same page.”
This is is a seriously unhealthy, toxic timeline we’re slogging through
Active Member
I agree - to an extent. But I want to point out that the context has shifted.
Political discourse used to be more to the effect of "I disagree with your fiscal policies" or what have you. You know, things that may actually be reasonably looked at from more than one angle.
Today, we have a president whose intelligence agency just told him that a country's leader approved the murder of a journalist who had spoken critically of him. But since our president has personal business dealings with the country (who, let's not forget, was largely responsible for 9/11), he shrugs and says "nah, whatever, we're still cool".
We have a president who blames the people whose homes and relatives have been reduced to ash for doing it to themselves.
We have a president who stood in those same ashes and then appointed a coal lobbyist to head the EPA because he still thinks climate change is fake.
We have a president who calls Nazis "fine people".
We have a president who brags about being allowed to sexually assault women because he's a celebrity.
And on top of it, we have an entire party of elected officials who won't say no to the crazy bullshit he spouts out because they're afraid of losing their reelection bids.
So to be perfectly honest, it is getting very, very hard to even consider voting for any Republican and still go to sleep at night feeling as though I haven't done something horrible. I hope that this will change when he finally resigns / dies / is removed from office / loses to a human being who has a soul.
Active Member
Good, short read:
"When an individual believes their thoughts can influence reality, we call it “magical thinking” and might worry about their mental health. When a government official uses ideology to trump reality, it’s more like propaganda, and it puts us on the road to fascism.
As Yale philosopher Jason Stanley argues, “The key thing is that fascist politics is about identifying enemies, appealing to the in-group (usually the majority group), and smashing truth and replacing it with power.”"
tempus est umbra in mente
seriously.... one of the things that's really wearing thin is the "Oh stop being hyperbolic" defense when you say the word "fascism." This is no longer a hysterical hypothetical, this is fucking real, and it was ALWAYS possible... but now that it's staring you in the face, don't act like it's crazy talk.
Active Member
Not sure if this is really the thread for it since it's not a Trump edict, but I'm sure he'd just love to see it go forward:
Ohio has introduced legislation that would allow for the death penalty for women who get abortions.
It hasn't passed, but the fact that it's even been written up is fucking terrifying.
A Decade In Oblivion
I dont normally type in this thread anymore.....but
jesus fucking christ what a fucking all time low we are at. What is the fucking low ass piece of fucking horseshit who thought about making this a law? Who the fuck is it? I want to know who it is so i can fucking tell what a sorry fucking excuse for a human being he is and I know it's a guy who did this, don't even at me at trying to say it could of been a woman, don't even fucking try. The fucking ignorance and lack of understanding of why a lady wants an abortion is astounding, you ever think that the average woman that becomes menstruated is around the age of 11 or 12? You ever think bout that? What if they get raped? What if they get pregnant? You ever think about that? Of course not, because you don't fucking care. What if she gets pregnant and her life is in danger? Most dont give a shit and say no, so not only does she die, the baby dies too, so not only did you lose 2 life, but the baby still died regardless. Good job fuck face, im glad you are pro-life because you just wasted two lives you uneducated piece of fucking human fucking garbage. Someone willing to pass a law to put a woman to death because they don't want to have a baby has left me gobsmacked, and fucking livid, and im SURE IM FUCKING SURE IF BY SOME UNHOLY FUCKING REASON THIS WOULD EVER PASS, they would find a way to do it a young person even if it's unconstitutional, because, they dont fucking care. I would say "God have mercy" but I don't even know if i believe in a god....so i'll leave him with nothing instead. Fucking garbage, he will not be missed when his ass is burning in hell.
Throbbing Member
2 words: Savita Halappanavar
Her death from sepsis because doctors would not perform a life-saving abortion on her when she was miscarrying (they feared they could not legally perform the procedure as long as there was a fetal pulse) helped push the Irish people to demand a referendum on whether or not to legalize abortions in Ireland. The referendum passed easily earlier this year and now Ireland is permitting abortions for any reason up to the 15-week mark. Any abortions after that have to be due to fetal anomalies or the mother's life is in danger.
And don't even get me started on how abortion bans and criminalizations also lead to miscarriages becoming criminalized!
Bite me
The law proposed would ban all abortions and prosecute the physician and the mother:
https://local12.com/news/local/propo...ortion-doctors
It doesn’t have a constitutional snowball’s chance in hell.
Active Member
They just banned abortions after SIX WEEKS and people bomb / murder people who work in clinics. It has a very real chance of passing. And with two new conservative SCOTUS appointees, it has a very good chance of helping to set precedent to overturn RvW.
tempus est umbra in mente
I don't know... people sometimes forget that RvW case was decided by a conservative leaning SCOTUS.
Then again, yeah... a lot has changed since then.
A Decade In Oblivion
'
Jesus i went fucking nuts last night wow, I apologize form my immature comments, jesus
Active Member
House Republicans subpoena Comey, Lynch for closed-door testimony
Wow, they did it. They actually did it.
Active Member
Comey helped Trump get elected with his ridiculous I have to tell everyone about her emails shite - shouldn’t Republicans love him?
Active Member
I think they did at the time, but now he wants to tell everyone about their candidate, so now they don't like him.
Bite me
This is the last-ditch effort of a Republican-led House Judiciary Committee to be assholes.
Once the Democrats are in charge of the House in January, the Democrats can (and will) issue subpoenas to whomever they want and they don’t even have to notify the Republicans that they’re doing it.
Guess who made up that rule?
The Republicans, during the Obama administration.
Karma.
Last edited by allegro; 11-22-2018 at 10:12 PM.
Too Privileged to Get It
Tear gas fired at migrants on the southern border: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46339085
Administrator
Fucking so wrong. My heart breaks because people that consider themselves patriots think this is ok. It’s vile and extremely unamerican.
Active Member
The fish rots from the head down. The policies and actions of the crime bosses he's installed at these agencies will get worse and worse and drift closer to fascism if people in his admin don't take a stand, b/c there is not much the House can do about things like this even once the Dems take control.
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