Sexual Abuse/Assault in the News

[ltrandazzo]

I'll have to merge the Chris Hardwick posts from the "Random Celebrity Headlines" thread but AMC and NBC have decided to reinstate him to all of his hosting duties after internal investigations.

To be clear - AMC cleared him in regards to any misconduct that may have happened at their network, not the incidents outlined by Chloe Dykstra. That accounting still stands.

https://news.avclub.com/chris-hardwi...ust-1827873112

https://news.avclub.com/chris-hardwi...too-1828016187

Looks like the talk of potentially false allegations torpedoing an "innocent man's" career were hasty.

[thevoid99]

Well..... I may not be a fan of Depp's recent films and his middle-age crisis but there's now some serious claims that he was the one that was abused by his ex-wife Amber Heard: https://people.com/movies/johnny-dep...he-denies/amp/

[sinspots]

It's almost like...other people just don't know went went on in the bedroom between a couple. And yet, we (generally speaking, "we") can just make opinions not having been there or having heard evidence that complies with the applicable rules of evidence.

[Sarah K]

Please describe the "applicable rules of evidence".

[theimage13]

Man with documented history of abuse and careening toward bankruptcy sues for defamation. Yup, sounds super duper believable.

*cough*

I'll hold any actual speculation until the trial.

[sinspots]

Please describe the "applicable rules of evidence".

Well, that is a topic that legal scholars write treatises on and judges write sometimes lengthy opinions on. I think there are courses offered that could be taken on an audited basis at many schools for those interested in learning more about the complex issues involved with admission of evidence. Each state will have its own rules of civil procedure, and so that would be 50 links and I don't have the time to link them all. Here's a summary of New York's (taken from a state judicial website), but of course this is a simple overview. https://www.nycourts.gov/JUDGES/evidence/ . If in federal court, the federal rules of evidence apply, but most sexual related criminal cases are not federal cases. However, many state evidence rules are somewhat based on the federal rules, so here is just one link that give some info about that: https://www.rulesofevidence.org/. Not fun weekend reading though (especially not when trying to catch Walleyes, yes, I know not the right month for Walleye catching...).

[ltrandazzo]

Well..... I may not be a fan of Depp's recent films and his middle-age crisis but there's now some serious claims that he was the one that was abused by his ex-wife Amber Heard: https://people.com/movies/johnny-dep...he-denies/amp/

I am 100% for making it legal for Amber Heard to punch Johnny Depp in the face twice because of his awfulness.

Personal opinion aside, I read the Rolling Stone piece about him that Amber's lawyers referenced and it's a doozy. https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...y-depp-666010/

[M1ke]

I am 100% for making it legal for Amber Heard to punch Johnny Depp in the face twice because of his awfulness.

Personal opinion aside, I read the Rolling Stone piece about him that Amber's lawyers referenced and it's a doozy. https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...y-depp-666010/

Jesus Christ he sounds exceptionally unwell. Drugs and Alcohol are terrible things.

[Sarah K]

Well, that is a topic that legal scholars write treatises on and judges write sometimes lengthy opinions on. I think there are courses offered that could be taken on an audited basis at many schools for those interested in learning more about the complex issues involved with admission of evidence. Each state will have its own rules of civil procedure, and so that would be 50 links and I don't have the time to link them all. Here's a summary of New York's (taken from a state judicial website), but of course this is a simple overview. https://www.nycourts.gov/JUDGES/evidence/ . If in federal court, the federal rules of evidence apply, but most sexual related criminal cases are not federal cases. However, many state evidence rules are somewhat based on the federal rules, so here is just one link that give some info about that: https://www.rulesofevidence.org/. Not fun weekend reading though (especially not when trying to catch Walleyes, yes, I know not the right month for Walleye catching...).

Why are you discussing legal guidelines, though? Social consequences do not have to meet legal guidelines - especially when courts are notoriously anti-women in abuse cases. It is no secret that Depp has completely gone off the rails in the last five years or so.

[sinspots]

Why are you discussing legal guidelines, though? Social consequences do not have to meet legal guidelines - especially when courts are notoriously anti-women in abuse cases. It is no secret that Depp has completely gone off the rails in the last five years or so.

Because, for me personally, I try to refrain from acting on "social justice" in situations where the social justice "system" (if it can be called such a thing) is not designed with safeguards in place to protect the accused. That's just my view personally based on my knowledge of what people who are wrongly accused face. Others are, of course, free to act and make opinions based on news, twitter, or social media reports, or based on their own personal experience and knowledge which may be very different than mine (and may come with an emphasis from another side of the problem that I don't focus on). That's what really great about today: the "collective" is based on the very different experiences of all kinds of different people with different experiences, so we get a mix of opinions and approaches to problems, and hopefully as a collective the problems are eventually addressed in a manner that is good for society and as fair as it can be to those impacted. It will be quite interesting to see how this situation is addressed by society over the next 10-15 years.

[Nellyrific]

I am 100% for making it legal for Amber Heard to punch Johnny Depp in the face twice because of his awfulness.

Personal opinion aside, I read the Rolling Stone piece about him that Amber's lawyers referenced and it's a doozy. https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...y-depp-666010/

YIKES. I hadn’t heard of any of this, let alone seen that video of him and his ex-wife (I feel like I live under a rock when it comes to this stuff). That was an absolutely disturbing read.

[dobyblue]

Uh, it's nice to meet you I guess, but who the fuck are you? Seems you signed up here a while ago, and your username is familiar to me (did you have an account on the old ETS?), but this is apparently your first post and it's a bit... odd... to start out by posting in such a combative manner. Just sayin'.

It's agreeing with the stance of the poster I'm quoting, which wasn't you, hence it wasn't combative (unlike your post quoting 2.87% of what I wrote).

Sorry I didn't start out by posting in the manner you deem acceptable.

[ltrandazzo]

It's agreeing with the stance of the poster I'm quoting, which wasn't you, hence it wasn't combative (unlike your post quoting 2.87% of what I wrote).

Sorry I didn't start out by posting in the manner you deem acceptable.

You'll do great here.

[Sarah K]

http://alphanewsmn.com/developing-ke...stic-violence/

No allegations of sexual abuse yet, but Keith Ellison is being outed for domestic violence. Put it here because of the #MeToo connection.

[ltrandazzo]

http://alphanewsmn.com/developing-ke...stic-violence/

No allegations of sexual abuse yet, but Keith Ellison is being outed for domestic violence. Put it here because of the #MeToo connection.

This should be believed and investigated as such - if this is true, then I'm really disappointed in Ellison because he is a progressive champion that has had to overcome a lot since people dismiss him because of his religious beliefs. The son mentions a video, he and his mother should be ready to turn that in for review.

[sinspots]

Re: Ellison.

It is being said that they will not release the video. It's also being said some reporters have looked into these allegations for the past year and found nothing. I don't have the time to dig fully into it but here is a start for someone that does have the time/desire: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHo...estic/e42dzt0/

[Sarah K]

This should be believed and investigated as such - if this is true, then I'm really disappointed in Ellison because he is a progressive champion that has had to overcome a lot since people dismiss him because of his religious beliefs.

Yepppp. So many of the comments on this center around his religion, which is disappointing.

Also, this tweet is the realest shit ever:

[Louie_Cypher]

strong dose of Whitney burtcast the female brain even some jre's she's smart funny and i think attractive i guess my one celebrity crush
-Louie

[eversonpoe]

strong dose of Whitney burtcast the female brain even some jre's she's smart funny and i think attractive i guess my one celebrity crush
-Louie

i think you're in the wrong thread, louie.

[telee.kom]

Eh, isn't the exact opposite of this tweet happening since MeToo started? I don't get what's the "realest shit ever" about it

[playwithfire]

Tell that to Chris Hardwick and like a million other men.

[playwithfire]

Though also I'm so annoyed with Judith Butler for defending the professor who got suspended for sexual harassment. https://www.vox.com/2018/8/14/176881...-avital-ronell

(P.S. I wonder if some of y'all who normally don't are gonna like this post because it's criticizing a woman abuser instead of a man.)

[telee.kom]

In your mind, what should happen? Any man accused of harassment should be automatically imprisoned or what? I think each and every accusation is taken very seriously and there are quite severe consequences for people involved. I don't know, it just seems silly to me think that men just needs to say "it's not true" and everything is forgotten. Like, when did that ever happen? Of course I'm talking about somewhat famous people, I don't know how much of an impact can camping like this have on day to day relationships of regular people.

[Swykk]

Not this shit again. Just go back...I don’t know...5-10 pages? Maybe not even that.

[sweeterthan]

Not this shit again. Just go back...I don’t know...5-10 pages? Maybe not even that.

The whole thread really. This discussion keeps happening over and over.

[sick among the pure]

I don't know, it just seems silly to me think that men just needs to say "it's not true" and everything is forgotten. Like, when did that ever happen? Of course I'm talking about somewhat famous people, I don't know how much of an impact can camping like this have on day to day relationships of regular people.

From my experience, yes, that is how it happens most of the time.
That's why the #MeToo movement was such a big deal, for once a few men were actually unable to just say "it's not true" and make it go away.

[sinspots]

Not this shit again. Just go back...I don’t know...5-10 pages? Maybe not even that.

Insertion of autotext in the posts would be great, would save time, and avoid repetitiveness. Example:

Actual post: Name is accused of terribles. Link to story.
Autotext: Person 1: We should not jump to conclusions and wait for evidence, police report, the justice system to do its job, etc. etc. etc.
Autotext: Person 2: No, we need to give woman the benefit of the doubt, because victims have not been treated fairly by the system (such as by not taking their accounts seriously, not protecting them, and not prosecuting perpetrators), resulting in a lot of harm to women, including that women are afraid to come forward (and therefore perpetrators are not stopped and continue to abuse others). etc.
Autotext: Repeat variations of 1 and 2 for a few pages, adding one or two name callings (optional) and numerous facepalmings.
Autotext: Silence for some time period until next Name is posted.

[Airbornefeline]

tl;dr: unless you're willing to concede to the ludicrous idea that accusations should be believed without doubt 100% of the time you're just wasting your time discussing this topic with these people.

[playwithfire]

alternative tl;dr: it is possible to not immediately believe an accusation while also not copping to whatboutism, sealioning, double-standards by seeming to only care about male survivors when contrasting to the experiences of women, and repeatedly stirring the same shit, and instead, choose to show empathy and a measured response

[eversonpoe]

alternative tl;dr: it is possible to not immediately believe an accusation while also not copping to whatboutism, sealioning, double-standards by seeming to only care about male survivors when contrasting to the experiences of women, and repeatedly stirring the same shit, and instead, choose to show empathy and a measured response

@playwithfire just said it perfectly

choose to show empathy and a measured response

this is what "we people" are pushing for and i don't understand why anyone has an issue with that.