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Thread: Sexual Abuse/Assault in the News

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by hologram parade View Post
    P L E A S E just leave. If you truly go by this fucked up logic, then Trump isn’t guilty of anything either in your eyes? All those women’s stories of physical, sexual and/or verbal abuse arent to be taken seriously because it hasn’t been proven in court? Fuck off
    He is saying take it seriously... as in wait for evidence and a verdict before deciding either way. That is taking things more seriously than assuming someone is innocent or assuming they're guilty

    You're replying as if he said something to the effect of "oh why should we believe these accusers"

    My take on all of this is... let the system deliver the ultimate verdict, but meanwhile - shock horror - you are allowed to voice your opinion on whether they are innocent or guilty.

    Whenever a me too accusation arises, there's people (always blokes) who act as if casual discussion is bound by US legal procedure. It isn't

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by poro765 View Post
    Now can I speak?
    ... Are you saying that you haven't already been speaking?

    Wow.

  3. #603
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    A little back on topic, I could be off base here, but a few years ago, didn't someone (maybe a group of people) harass Reznor online or something? He like wigged out and went off Twitter (or whatever it was) for a while? Something to do with him getting married and 'some' group of fans not really accepting that or something? I really can't recall the exact time, but I want to say it was around the time Year Zero or The Slip was released? He had said something like how happy he was with his wife, and then that opened to the troll flood gates? His recent comments about being a Dad, married life and his 'thoughts' on current world affairs, might make the dude a prime target for more trolling by the same fringe element from before or a new one in the current climate of 'fake news'?

    Anyway, I am not saying we shouldn't give the tweet that went some thought, but maybe we shouldn't give it complete blind support either. Just basing it on some of Trent's history with the internet and some of trolls he has encountered. Anyway, I hope this just turns out to be a troll of some kind (the man is clearly a hero of mine). I don't mean to upset/offend anyone who feels differently than I do about this, but I think there needs to be a little more info is all.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleiner352 View Post
    Just think of the victims and those who might still be victims. Why is it so hard to do so?
    I care. That's why I said pay attention to their stories. Let us listen.
    If only the world can know instantly if what people is saying is true or false.

    Just stop trashing people before anything official happens! Why are you guys so keen on doing so? Stop this madness.

  5. #605
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  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Randazzo View Post
    ... Are you saying that you haven't already been speaking?

    Wow.
    A lot of people here told me to shut up, fuck off because I haven't been raped.
    Also, people who haven't been raped can speak on this matter. I don't have to ask permission to speak of this matter.
    You chose to reply to a sarcasm by using a sarcasm.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by poro765 View Post
    You people really don't care about the *alleged* offenders.

    Stop ruining their lives. Especially before anything concrete comes up.
    If there is one worse thing than being a rape victim, it's being accused of rape or any sexual offense when they didn't do it.

    They get torn down, insulted and considered worthless piece of shit.
    But then, when they are proved they are not guilty, all those people who threw insults on him are gone. You just don't care anymore! Good for you.
    Don't let that happen. Stop blaming people. Talk about it, but don't point the blame, not just yet.

    How much are we really supposed to care about alleged offenders? Saying that someone really wasn’t a fan or whatever of MJK bc they believe he did those things doesn’t make them uncaring. No one here has “ruined” anyone’s life by holding a better outlook and opinion on this than you do.

    A abusive rapist would love your take on all this; always give them the benefit, everything untrue until proven in court, and talking about how it’s hard for them. Known, convicted rapists, still live their lives - and not just celebrities. Less than 4-5% will ever see jail time... Some even get to be president. Wish you would fight this strongly for the many victims of assault etc.

    Accuser/Victim(s) get torn down, death threats, insulted and considered worthless just for coming forward and sharing their stories of trauma and abuse at the hands of men. But then, when their stories are proved true, all those people who threw insults on them are gone. Don’t let that happen. Believe victims. Call out abusers.

  8. #608
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    FYI—You were told to fuck off because of your long winded repetitive posts that were put together like that student who didn’t do the reading but is really trying to make the report look good with lots of wordy bullshit.

    (SANDWICH HUT!)
    Last edited by Swykk; 06-28-2018 at 10:14 AM.

  9. #609
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    Ok that tweet about Trent has been deleted although the account still exists. Don’t really know what to make of that

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by hologram parade View Post
    How much are we really supposed to care about alleged offenders? Saying that someone really wasn’t a fan or whatever of MJK bc they believe he did those things doesn’t make them uncaring. No one here has “ruined” anyone’s life by holding a better outlook and opinion on this than you do.
    Short answer: care as much as you like to care about the victims.
    Because they could be the victims. And the alleged victims could be the offender.

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by ickyvicky View Post

    Was just going to post this. All this happened near me, I live in Madison. He assaulted, stalked and terrified many women, including a coworker of mine who happened to live next to him last year. He’s been living it up on bail until just recently. He only got 3 years! He had notebooks full of stalking of details of girls on campus, and it’s easy to see how he was escalating to be a flat out murderer

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by poro765 View Post
    Short answer: care as much as you like to care about the victims.
    Because they could be the victims. And the alleged victims could be the offender.

    Can you just step back for maybe 6 hours or 24 hours and let this breathe? If you still then still feel the need to repeat yourself you can.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by hologram parade View Post
    Was just going to post this. All this happened near me, I live in Madison. He assaulted, stalked and terrified many women, including a coworker of mine who happened to live next to him last year. He’s been living it up on bail until just recently. He only got 3 years! He had notebooks full of stalking of details of girls on campus, and it’s easy to see how he was escalating to be a flat out murderer
    Frickin' crazy! And to only be a registered sex offender until the age of 48?! Huh?

  14. #614
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    Okay, I'm gonna try to give this a shot too. (Though I will say that this has escalated a lot more since I initially started writing this... feel free to chastise me for my naïveté in attempting to explain this, but I hope it elucidates things for at least one person who isn't sure what to think yet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by poro765 View Post
    Listen, people who keep facepalming my posts.
    All men and women are innocent until proven guilty. End of story.
    Even if they are murderers. Unless they are caught red-handed, they are innocent. Until. Proven. Guilty.

    I'm not sure if this is the world I grew up in. I didn't know law and order is disregarded and witch hunt replaced it.
    Look, I see what you're saying here. I've always been a strong supporter of the idea of innocence until proven otherwise. And when allegations like this started becoming more widespread five or so years ago (or something; I'm bad at time), I had the same mindset as you. But what I've come to realize is twofold:

    1, that with something as intrinsically difficult to prove as sexual assault, courts cannot always be relied upon to be arbiters of justice, especially when the guilt and shame that survivors are societally conditioned to carry (among other things) keep the far majority of assaults from being reported/having charges pressed (which is fairly unique among other crimes); and

    2, more importantly (and I struggle to figure out how to phrase this succinctly), with something as pervasive and misunderstood as sexual assault (it shocks me how many people, largely men but of all genders, don't fully grasp the concept of consent or understand what constitutes rape), a deep societal change has to happen somehow. Survivors have been discredited and not believed, on the rare occasions where they've actually felt able to step forward and talk about it, for basically ever. Usually any legal charges don't even come out of it, and when they do, it's so hard to prove that the perpetrators usually get away with it in the court of the law. Men (and sometimes others) in power feel like they can get away with basically anything, and if the court can't be a proper arbiter here, the change has to happen somehow. And that's where the "court" of public opinion comes in.

    Ultimately, the whole concept of innocence until proven guilty is only meant to apply to the legal system -- and their are other methods of achieving justice. A single tweet won't take down Maynard James Keenan, or Trent Reznor, or especially Harvey Weinstein. As has been stated, all the major names to have tumbled have been taken down through investigative reporting -- delving more deeply, interviewing the accusers, finding patterns of abuse (because it's rarely just an isolated incident), and often (but not always) finding smoking guns like hush money or things of the sort. I've seen several stories of big newspapers catching fake accusers -- they do their jobs well.

    I think that, if somehow after more investigation these MJK accusations turn out to be false, his career will have survived just fine, not much harm done, regardless of whether we're sitting here calling him a rapist. We'll just say "oops" and get along with our lives. And sure, he'll probably be annoyed a bit, and it will be an unpleasant experience, but you know what? If I were him, I'd be more than happy to go through a couple of weeks of annoyance, or even full-fledged social rejection, if it meant that survivors were being taken on their word. Is it a perfect system? No, not by any means. But those of us who are truly on board with ending sexual harassment and violence for good would be willing to bite the bullet of any false accusations that happen to come our way for the sake of advancing the cause. Though it wouldn't be pretty, I know that I, as a man, certainly would.

    It was a hard thing for me to accept initially, because it does make me very uncomfortable to think people being falsely accused. But it makes me way more uncomfortable to think of the people who have had to live through sexual assault and carry those experiences with them for the rest of their lives, and the way I see it, if the number of unreported assaults absolutely dwarfs the number of false reports, it is far, far more worth it to believe the survivors than to continue to insist on "innocence until proven guilty" in the court of public opinion.

    Anyway, that's my two cents. I know that when I was on the fence a while back about how to go about issues like this, seeing explanations of this sort helped me a lot. I hope that it helps at least one person here understand the issue better.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeterthan View Post
    how do we know its not you, bill? you seemed pretty interested in this happening yesterday.
    Because I would never hurt my Trent....And I have been mocking all my Tool friends about their continued loyalty to MJK after all of this broke so if a story broke about Trent, I would have to eat a lot of shit....And if I was stupid enough to do such shit, I would have been much more creative and said something like Trent and Manson wore clown outfits while Courtney Love filmed it
    Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell; 06-28-2018 at 11:46 AM.

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    ..And I have been mocking all my Tool friends about their continued loyalty to MJK after all of this broke so if a story broke about Trent, I would have to eat a lot of shit.
    So, how many servings are you into thus far?...


    #ShitSandwich
    Last edited by Krazy; 06-28-2018 at 12:08 PM.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helpmeiaminhell View Post
    How much you wanna bet some angry fan like cashpiles is behind the Reznor tweet....
    Back in 2009, when the nin.con forums were created, a female user posted a very long and detailed story about how she met Reznor after a concert and how they became lovers etc. Rob Sheridan himself answered her, picking apart her story and all the inaccuracies it contained. Turned out that user has long been known by the nin staff and that she has mental problems. She is also known to go after fans she doesn't like, calling them all sorts of colorful names and even making death threats. I'm not saying this is her though but there are many disgruntled fans out there.

    However:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lt. Randazzo View Post
    But my thought is still this - a journalist needs to vet these claims and establish continuity before anything certain can be said. We didn't have tweets preceding a lot of the men taken down by Me Too because there were fully prepared stories and interviews ready to go when we found out about these trash men.
    This, a thousand times. We cannot discount a claim just because we like the celebrity it concerns. Every claim needs to be taken seriously and thoroughly investigated. There are a lot of details in the MJK tweet that can be verified. As for the Reznor tweet, if the person behind it can give enough credible details about it then we will have to cross that bridge when/if we get to it.

    The biggest mistake would be to say outright "it's not true". Every sexual assault claim should be taken seriously and investigated, whether is is made against our next door neighbor or the biggest celebrity out there.

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodi View Post
    This, a thousand times. We cannot discount a claim just because we like the celebrity it concerns. Every claim needs to be taken seriously and thoroughly investigated. There are a lot of details in the MJK tweet that can be verified. As for the Reznor tweet, if the person behind it can give enough credible details about it then we will have to cross that bridge when/if we get to it.

    The biggest mistake would be to say outright "it's not true". Every sexual assault claim should be taken seriously and investigated, whether is is made against our next door neighbor or the biggest celebrity out there.
    Yep. This is also a potential outcome with getting a journalist involved - A woman approached The Post with dramatic — and false — tale about Roy Moore. She appears to be part of undercover sting operation.

    It has to be vetted. It has to be checked. And if it adds up, then the truth will come out for certain. The reporters for WaPo were 100% ready to believe this woman and told her that; they also had to verify her.

  19. #619
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    Maaaan. Remember when Terry Crews, a big, tough dude, had the balls to admit that he had been victimized sexually, which was a watershed moment for men being able to talk about such things?

    Now 50 Cent is publicly mocking him for it.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/27/enter...ews/index.html

    Fuck 50 cent. Jeeeesus.

  20. #620
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    If Trump taught me anything, it's that everything needs to be dumbed down, and spoken in the most basic terms if you want to understand it. So, here goes:

    DEFEND THE VICTIMS, NOT THE RAPISTS.

    Simple enough?

    Or are you still not getting it?

  21. #621
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    @eskimo It's not that we are trying to defend the "rapists", we just don't know what's fully going on. It's all so damn confusing and we just want the full story out. Obviously, we are all worried that 2 people we looked up to are being accused of something fucked up and it's got us worried and im 100% willing to believe in the story...whether I like it or not.

    However im also 100% ready to know it could be complete shit because this is the world we live in now. Isn't this what happened with that one band? I think it was Decapitated.

    I honestly don't know what i should feel right now

  22. #622
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    https://twitter.com/mjkeenan/status/1012425461845016576

    "Many thanks to those of you who saw right through this despicable false claim that only does damage to the #metoo movement. And shame on those of you who perpetuate this destructive clickbait. As for my delayed but un-required response, I had my phone off. You should try it."

  23. #623
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    The replies are gross and predictable. "Fuck yes, my idol, you saying 'I didn't do it' is all the proof I'll ever need!!!!!1234"

  24. #624
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    They're gross for sure. If he's telling the truth, he should call up the lawyer. Sadly, that's about all you can do at this point. For the few people who are actually innocent, you can deny it of course...but know that for half of the population you'll forever still be guilty.

  25. #625
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    It really is disturbing that people would do this for the hell of it.

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by october_midnight View Post
    They're gross for sure. If he's telling the truth, he should call up the lawyer. Sadly, that's about all you can do at this point. For the few people who are actually innocent, you can deny it of course...but know that for half of the population you'll forever still be guilty.
    if this is a lie, can’t he get twitter to hand over details of the account? Personally I think if this is made up, it was not a woman doing it at all but a 4chan user as mentioned in this thread, would be nice to see some of those fucks held to account. Would be pretty easy for someone to take details of stories from reddit and twist them into a believable story. The Trent accusation was just bollocks, no attempt to tell a story and then just deleted

  27. #627
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    If he’s being sincere* he could say it in less of a cunty way. Comparing to the statement I recall Jeordie making.

    *saying sincere rather than right because sometimes abusers don’t believe they are abusing.

  28. #628
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    I can't imagine it feels good having people instantly vilify you over words said in an anonymous tweet. I think this was a great response.

  29. #629
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    Waiting for someone to out Michael Bay....

  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by marodi View Post
    Back in 2009, when the nin.con forums were created, a female user posted a very long and detailed story about how she met Reznor after a concert and how they became lovers etc. Rob Sheridan himself answered her, picking apart her story and all the inaccuracies it contained. Turned out that user has long been known by the nin staff and that she has mental problems. She is also known to go after fans she doesn't like, calling them all sorts of colorful names and even making death threats. I'm not saying this is her though but there are many disgruntled fans out there.
    I also remember that psycho Andrea Urban Fox who was ALL OVER the interwebs around that time decimating Trent and MariQ at any turn......The dude was an active member of twitter and was trying to interact with fans and a few fucks had to ruin it for everybody. Thats why to this day he barely goes on twitter. He should just do a Liam Gallagher, and post shit on twitter and interact with peeps and the ones that act like assholes, just tell them to fuck off like Liam does lol

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