Sandbag Watch - NIN and Sandbag part. Livenation picks up the pieces.

[GibbonBlack]

I don't understand why this is an argument at all. The songs have clearly been used before in movies, trailers, and television programmes. I must have completely lost the plot here. Either I'm insane or the world is insane.

Nope, I'm following you. Your point still stands, I have no idea why the others are countering you. There must be a communication error somewhere because I have no idea how someone wouldn't understand what you've said.

[halo eighteen]

Releasing an exclusive 4xLP set of instrumental versions of songs is a niche release regardless of what artist or what album it is.

[katara]

Releasing an exclusive 4xLP set of instrumental versions of songs is a niche release regardless of what artist or what album it is.

I'd actually say that it's more likely that Deviations might be used in TV and film. Sure, Deviations 1 is niche, but it's no less niche than Ghosts, and that's been used in tons of stuff. Now that the vocals have been ripped off, the songs are much more usable (unless some instrumental promo has been lying around since 1999 that I'm unaware of).

[GentlemanLoser]

I think the context is missing here. JLYA was used in a film trailer, and various other songs were used in other films and television media. That person claimed the songs were too niche to be used in any visual entertainment, yet we can plainly see that that is not the case. Ultimately, the Deviations versions are still basically the same songs aside from very minor differences (such as missing a tiny static sound or having their vocals removed).

"That person" (me) said that THE ALBUM Deviations was a niche product, which it is. I was never saying that the album THE FRAGILE, that Deviations is derived from, was niche. Obviously it wasn't, and obviously I wasn't claiming it to be. That album, while not a critical or commercial darling in it's time, is still a pop culture touchstone, that has been used in music in the past and will have music in the future. I can guarantee that if tomorrow a movie were to use Just Like You Imagined (what I assume 'JLYA' refers to), the credits would read "from the album The Fragile" and not Deviations 1.

My 'claim' was that as an album, Deviations 1 is not being positioned commercially to a larger audience. It is, for all intents and purposes, something of an official bootleg. Wonderful for the smaller cross-section of diehard fans of The Fragile, a big nothing to the world at large. Hell, I know nine inch nails fans who consider The Fragile to be their best work that are entirely unaware of Deviations 1 and are not particularly excited about it. It is, as far as I can tell, a release made more specifically for fans, when compared against their other albums (with the possible exception of Ghosts, which is quite an outlier, and admittedly the exception to whatever rule I am invoking), or the Reissues for that matter.

[GentlemanLoser]

Also, just so we are all on the same page and no one is misunderstanding. Per google.com:

Niche
adjective
adjective: niche

• 1.
  denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population

To wit, Deviations 1 is a limited-one-time release of a reimagining of tracks from a ~20 year old album that is only being officially sold through nin.com on a single, archaic but beloved, audio format and little-to-no marketing. It is niche, in much the same way that the Still EP was niche as well.

To echo a previous comment, I don't really understand why this is an argument at all.

[Kyle]

I bought Still on a CD at Best Buy. This is way more niche.

[sore_and_crucified]

I feel like everything my favourite artists release is niche compared to all the Bieber's and Sheeran's dominating the charts...I'm starting to feel like a niche product myself!!!

[GibbonBlack]

Also, just so we are all on the same page and no one is misunderstanding. Per google.com:

Niche
adjective
adjective: niche

• 1.
  denoting or relating to products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population

To wit, Deviations 1 is a limited-one-time release of a reimagining of tracks from a ~20 year old album that is only being officially sold through nin.com on a single, archaic but beloved, audio format and little-to-no marketing. It is niche, in much the same way that the Still EP was niche as well.

To echo a previous comment, I don't really understand why this is an argument at all.

Ew dude.

patronize
ˈpatrənʌɪz/
verb
gerund or present participle: patronising

• 1.
  treat with an apparent kindness which betrays a feeling of superiority.
  "‘She's a good-hearted girl,’ he said in a patronizing voice"
  

  synonyms:

  treat condescendingly, treat with condescension, condescend to, look down on, talk down to, put down, humiliate, treat like a child, treat as inferior, treat with disdain, treat scornfully/contemptuously, be snobbish to, look down one's nose at

[Kyle]

To be fair, based on replies, I'm not sure some people really did know what the word actually meant. I was tempted to post that definition myself.

[katara]

Deviations 1... is, for all intents and purposes, something of an official bootleg.

If you ever meet Trent, it would be awesome if you could open the conversation with this statement.

[GentlemanLoser]

Ew dude.

patronize
ˈpatrənʌɪz/
verb
gerund or present participle: patronising

• 1.
  treat with an apparent kindness which betrays a feeling of superiority.
  "‘She's a good-hearted girl,’ he said in a patronizing voice"
  

  synonyms:

  treat condescendingly, treat with condescension, condescend to, look down on, talk down to, put down, humiliate, treat like a child, treat as inferior, treat with disdain, treat scornfully/contemptuously, be snobbish to, look down one's nose at

It honestly seemed like there was a misunderstanding about the meaning of the word niche. I apologize if my attempt to make things clearly defined were insulting to you. They were not intended to be.

[GentlemanLoser]

If you ever meet Trent, it would be awesome if you could open the conversation with this statement.

Not exactly the best opener, but I would have no issue saying that to him, as I don't see that statement as insulting. I suppose it isn't hard to misinterpret my use of the word "bootleg" to equate to "cheap" or something, but that wasn't what I was trying to convey when I said that. Bootlegs, especially in the context of nin, are some of my favorite recordings. I have a small collection of them (hell, about the only CDs I still own these days).

Bootlegs, especially studio tracks/demos, are a fantastic window into what an album evolved from. Deviations seems very much to be like that; a look into the alternate/earlier versions of songs as well as songs that didn't make the cut. This is totally the stuff that would make a classic bootleg on the order of "Purest Feeling" or "Demos and Remixes," but it's a high quality recording coming from the man himself; a sort of official bootleg

Regardless, I think I have made my intentions clear enough at this point and will let this post be my last word on the subject.

PS, for what it's worth katara, I do think you made a good point about Deviations potentially being more likely to be used in movies/tv in the future. Having readymade instrumentals of tracks that once had lyrics might be quite appealing to someone in charge of putting together a score/soundtrack.

[Krazy]

What are people's thoughts on if this would (or wouldn't) have happened if Rob were still in the mix? I'm guessing he was probably pretty hands on with this kind of stuff.

[Jon]

...Ghosts, and that's been used in tons of stuff...

I would (primarily) attribute that to being released under a Creative Commons license.

[sick among the pure]

What are people's thoughts on if this would (or wouldn't) have happened if Rob were still in the mix? I'm guessing he was probably pretty hands on with this kind of stuff.

I think that the minimalistic production has fuck all to do with Rob not being around anymore.

I would (primarily) attribute that to being released under a Creative Commons license.

Yeah, except it wasn't just a creative commons license. It was released under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike license. Note the non-commercial part.

[Jon]

Yeah, except it wasn't just a creative commons license. It was released under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike license. Note the non-commercial part.

The Non-Commercial aspect of a Creative Commons license does not negate Fair Use rights.

Also, the work can be used commercially as long as you get the proper clearance.

https://creativecommons.org/licenses.../3.0/legalcode

[sick among the pure]

The Non-Commercial aspect of a Creative Commons license does not negate Fair Use rights.

Using a song in a trailer for a movie is not "fair use".

Also, the work can be used commercially as long as you get the proper clearance.

Just like songs that aren't under Creative Commons.

Basically, there is no reason to attribute Ghosts' use for commercial things (what we were talking about) at all to its license. Especially not "primarily".

[Fred]

Currently listening to mine. Thanks to this thread, I sorta knew what to expect. I can see why some people are disappointed with the artwork. I like the minimalistic presentation, but given the price tag, I had expected a little more. A physical version of the original PDF booklet would have sufficed. That said, it sounds great, and the music is what matters the most to me. In that regard, I'm satisfied with the release itself.

As for the actual packaging, one of the corners was dinged up a bit. Nothing major, and nothing I haven't seen on vinyls picked up from the record store. The vinyls seem to be unscathed, thank god. Still, not really in a rush to pick up the Definitive Editions from the nin.com store, though I'm hopeful they'll up their game after this month-long clusterfuck.

[ziltoid]

Mine arrived today with a damaged jacket and two lightly scratched vinyls side D and E.
FFS I really hope they get their shit together.
I not going to order another thing from the store until they sort their shit out.
I better get replacement vinyls and a jacket.

[ItsChrisRoss]

Mine arrived today with a damaged jacket and two lightly scratched vinyls side D and E.
FFS I really hope they get their shit together.
I not going to order another thing from the store until they sort their shit out.
I better get replacement vinyls and a jacket.

Oddly enough a guy I know had light scratches on his too. He sent me videos of La Mer playing and the scratches created this annoyingly loud click sound all through the song. It was pretty unlistenable. What a shame. Hope you get them to send you another copy.

[implanted_microchip]

@ziltoid judging by your medallion all you gotta do is turn the difficulty down, make the records meditate for a while and they'll be right as rain

[lindrom15]

I received mine (Belgium).

1) the pack was delivered already opened
2) the crease on the outside was not a very good sign
3) the outer sleeve is of course creased
4) lighter - but still - damage on the inner sleeves
5) a beautiful scratch on the front cover

Records look undamaged

[Hellblazer]

Anyone in Australia got theres yet?

I got an email several weeks ago with a tracking number via this website: https://emea.netdespatch.com/mba/79892x0/login/

I have no f***** idea what login is required here. Such an arduous and frustrating process. Remind to never order from you again Mr Reznor(!!!!)

[MrLobster]

I like the minimalistic presentation,

Mostly I like it but having Halo Thirty on the spine would have been nice. Or Deviations. Or Nine Inch Nails.

[chuenthez]

Maybe it was already said but I sent them a message about my NTAE physical component that didn't arrive with my TF : D1 (on UK store).

Here is the answer:

Thank you for getting in touch. We understand that you have not received the physical component that came with Not The Actual Events download.


We have requested some more of this stock. As soon as it arrives at our warehouse, we will resend you missing item.

For me it is strange: what did Firebrand UK do with those physical components ???

[Kyle]

More of this stock? Does that mean it will be for sale again?

[afors]

Maybe it was already said but I sent them a message about my NTAE physical component that didn't arrive with my TF : D1 (on UK store).

Here is the answer:

For me it is strange: what did Firebrand UK do with those physical components ???

I asked Sandbag(UK) this question back in June when they first took over. Their reply was -

"We will get the physical component part sent out to you very shortly"

'Shortly' must = a Trent 'Soon' apparently! as it's now over a month ago since this correspondence. It definitely didn't arrive with Deviations.
I still live in hope that everything will arrive in August with the other DE's I ordered.

Perhaps the overwhelming demand for it + digital download meant that only US/Americas got theirs and they ran out so had to re-order.
OR
perhaps Firebrand UK/EU did just sit on it so they could ship everything at once, then the question becomes where are the physical components now?

I guess we may never know, but I don't want to have to fork out the £50-£70GBP asking price on Ebay for one of these! Considering I ordered it in Dec 16!

Perhaps anyone in EU/UK who received their copy could confirm that they did as all I have seen are references to no-one having received theirs in UK/EU.

[Fred]

I received mine, and I'm in Denmark. Importantly, though, I ordered it from the US store before I was aware of the UK/EU one. Completely by mistake, but now I'm happy I did.

[afors]

I received mine, and I'm in Denmark. Importantly, though, I ordered it from the US store before I was aware of the UK/EU one. Completely by mistake, but now I'm happy I did.

Interesting, but would like to know if anyone got theirs from EU/UK NIN store. I remember in the Firebrand thread that there was talk of having to ask Firebrand to send it out if you wanted it sooner as they were holding back to mail everything (Vinyl+components) in one shipment. I didn't email them then as I wasn't in a rush. Now I'm just waiting for August to see if it arrives. I deliberately placed two NTAE orders in Dec to get the Vinyl as well as the component. At this rate my NTAE vinyl will arrive ahead of the physical component! or I'll be offered at £12 refund rather than the market rate to get one. All we would like is clarity and there is none of that coming from anywhere.

[EvilGobi]

Got mine yesterday, same as errbody else it was bashed to shit. Funny thing is the corner of the parcel that was bashed to fuck was completely fine, but... one of the other corners was wrecked.