Active Member
Just came back from seeing it in 3D, I had a really weird 180 about turn from being a bit eh in the first half and going to loving it in the second to the point where some scenes gave me goosebumps! But I have a very nostalgic history with Star Wars from childhood so I find it quite difficult to be coldly objective
Hairy Member
What? Luke only began to act like this in Last Jedi. The entire OT is Luke being selfless and doing things for the greater good (family, friends, galaxy). Yeah, he whines and complains. He is in the middle of a galaxy wide rebellion, trying to learn magic form a ghost and little green man and facing his father who is the worst mass murderer around. I'd complain too. He never quits. He never gives up. He never forsakes his friends.Originally Posted by marodi
The character in Last Jedi is a complete 180 from every action we've ever seen him take. It doesn't make any sense. But then again, basically everything in Last Jedi makes no sense.
Active Member
Yeah I really didn’t like what they did with Luke’s character in TLJ either
Active Member
Neither did Mark Hamill...
Active Member
apparently 27 discs are in the book. Assuming three per movie, one 4k one blu-ray and one for special features.
Active Member
just looked that up, if it has the theatrical versions of the original trilogy I’m definitely getting it
apparently 27 discs are in the book. Assuming three per movie, one 4k one blu-ray and one for special features.
Active Member
The fact that the page says "Return of the Jedi" and has two discs featured makes me hope that it will happen but I'm also a realist and know that it's the 4k and BRD versions.
BADGERS
Early in "The Empire Strikes Back" Yoda steals a flashlight from Luke Skywalker and beats R2D2 with a stick when he tried to take it back. Then Yoda says that he won't help Luke unless he can keep his flashlight.
So this whole debate about whether the characterization of Luke I'm the last movie is believable is ridiculous.
Unintelligible Whispering
Well, that was two hours of breakneck-paced fanservice. One plot point after the next visited and addressed after the other.
Not perfect by any means. Does feel like Disney/KK threw up their hands and went "Let's just make a movie that reminds people what they liked about Star Wars, for the fans".
It doesn't so much "shit" on TLJ as it explains its inconsistencies and "subversions" in ways that manage to flow more or less organically. Rolls with most of the punches, thank god. Resolution is satisfying.
Afterglow reaction, but I do feel like it's probably the best in the trilogy, which might not be difficult considering 7 was an uninspired xerox and 8 was a messy contrarian curmudgeon. This is...like an Indiana Jones scavenger hunt that just unabashedly pats the franchise on the back and pulls out absolutely every stop imaginable - and a bunch of stuff out of its ass - as it hits what feel like half the locations in the galaxy. If you can think of an iconic SW moment, odds are it's homaged or referenced here, sometimes with a wink, oftentimes not subtly at all.
So call it wallowing in nostalgia or a celebration of a legacy, but that's what it is. Either way, it's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot of fun.
Also keep an eye out for the musical cameo
I'm conflicted. I share the desire for something new, but at the same time if this really does turn out to be the end of the saga - or at least the Skywalker Saga as that box seems to call it, I couldn't think of a better time to be gratuitously self-referential.
Last edited by Shadaloo; 12-19-2019 at 11:11 PM. Reason: more to say, have I
BADGERS
This movie was utterly garbage in a detailed way from erasing it's predecessor like some kind of checklist, to giving toxic fans what they wanted after they harassed and threatened an actress. Some of these plot details don't hold up to the slightest amount of scrutiny.
The one thing I did like about it is that Kylo Ren as an individual was handled well all the way through.
This movie starts with ridiculously bad decision of bringing back emperor palpatine, decides to build the entire plot around it, and then proceeds to spin it's tires for 40 minutes on a machuffin hunt where no line of dialogue manages to breach pure exposition. All with the worst pacing of any movie in the franchise.
The most Abrams has accomplished here is ensure that talking about Star Wars will be insufferable for the rest of our lives.
Throbbing Member
I thought it was fucking great to be honest, best of the trilogy by far. Thats it.
Administrator
Added the spoiler tag to the thread title. See you guys Saturday.
Trollhunter
Oh god, the thing I had accidentally read about Rey is fucking true lol
Sooooooo dumb!
BADGERS
Yup that one twist basically shot the whole thing for me. It's so stupid and nonsensical I just couldnt be invested any more.
Active Member
Didn't you see TLJ like 115 times? You might really skip the new movie?
tempus est umbra in mente
this movie is complete garbage. Nice effects and sound design, but other than that, absolute bullshit. One of the most boring movies ever. The new game has a better plot.
BADGERS
It's a monument to safety and comfort zones. It gives a hand job to every fan who's ever threatened the life of someone who worked on a movie.
The prequels are stupid, but at least they lacked the malicious ass kissing of this abomination.
Only By Night
Spoilers
Just got back, the visuals were good, but that really isn't saying much here. The movie felt so catered to the hate that TLJ received it felt almost embarrassing to watch. TLJ definitely has its flaws, but to say it is complete garbage and the worst Star Wars movie ever and ruined the image that JJ was trying to portray is utterly ridiculous. TFA played it safe with instead of getting 20 minutes of fan service, the entire movie felt like that for me and so did this, but TFA I actually enjoyed.
The Bad:
- Rey didn't earn a dam thing she was able to do in this film.
- Did Finn EVER tell Rey what he was going to say when they were sinking? I cannot remember.
-Knights of Ren should never have been revealed; fucking useless characters (If you can even call them that)
-Needed more Leia
-Did we REALLY have to be bamboozled 4 times of someone dying?
-Even the title crawl is God awful. Who wrote those paragraphs?
-So Palpatine can lift thousands of destroyers out of the ground, effortlessly, without being "Powered up?"
-Death Star tropes.... AGAIN.
The good:
- Kylo Ren is the only redeeming character from all three films and is great here until his awkward end
-Droids fucking rock
-The scene with Han and Kylo was nice
-BABU FUCKING FRIK
-Chewie.... Always
-Planet that the Emperor was on was pretty cool
-Humor was pretty spot on
- Finn was good here
The fact that we got robbed of ever seeing Luke and Leia training together made me completely infuriated when this scene came in.
Edit: What was up with Lando? They turned him into a boring, creepy grandpa. What was with that comment of his at the end of the movie that he gave to what's her name? His daughter?
... And it is really THAT taboo to see a Jedi actually make a fucking Light Saber? At least TLJ showed us the dam crystal in the broken one. Ok, rant done.
Star Wars: Rise of the Mcguffins.
Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 12-21-2019 at 03:14 AM.
Active Member
I did, but I am doing these things to enjoy the media vicariously through others. It's a neat feeling when you are anticipating a cool scene (ie. the suicide warp jump) and watch how your friends react. My hopes and anticipations were set back after TFA, so I wasn't as crazed for TLJ as for TFA, though secretly I was hoping that it was going to be a daring, dark, twisted turn in the saga. Instead it was what it was, but its biggest fault was failing to set up episode IX. I envy those who were actually still excited for this movie, because there was nothing interesting to resolve after TLJ.
I think I'm watching it on sunday, and the only reason I am excited about it are the feedbacks. I feel like I'm in a parallel universe, where people are unironically bashing JJ for throwing out Rian's ideas. I just love the idea that instead of introducing this cool saga to a new generation, it divided the fans into two groups, both of them blaming the other one for the exact same things they are praising themselves. If that's not the definition of chaos, I don't know what is.
Active Member
Don't even tell me this is the thing. LMAO if so.
BADGERS
The difference is that Johnson didn't throw out what Abrams built, he built upon it. Abrams set up a series of question that he had no intention of answering, which by his own statements, is his entire story telling philosophy. He left them for others to answer.I did, but I am doing these things to enjoy the media vicariously through others. It's a neat feeling when you are anticipating a cool scene (ie. the suicide warp jump) and watch how your friends react. My hopes and anticipations were set back after TFA, so I wasn't as crazed for TLJ as for TFA, though secretly I was hoping that it was going to be a daring, dark, twisted turn in the saga. Instead it was what it was, but its biggest fault was failing to set up episode IX. I envy those who were actually still excited for this movie, because there was nothing interesting to resolve after TLJ.
I think I'm watching it on sunday, and the only reason I am excited about it are the feedbacks. I feel like I'm in a parallel universe, where people are unironically bashing JJ for throwing out Rian's ideas. I just love the idea that instead of introducing this cool saga to a new generation, it divided the fans into two groups, both of them blaming the other one for the exact same things they are praising themselves. If that's not the definition of chaos, I don't know what is.
Johnson took like one or two of those concepts and answered them in the way that he felt was most meaningful. Basically, Johnson came up with an answer for Rey's parentage, and a little bit of development for Luke, Rey, and Kylo, while filling in some back story. He may have killed snoke, but the mystery remained and Abrams came up with a pretty economic answer to it that was... Fine.
Abrams took numerous details, like a surprising number of details from Johnson's movie and undid them, sometimes without explanation at all, other times with more of a call out than you'd expect.
Trollhunter
It isn’t but I would say it’s on the same level.
Only By Night
Wasn't Abrams an Executive Producer for TLJ? Johnson left the end of the film with a pretty much empty canvas for others to work upon which should be looked at as a GOOD thing. But to say that JJ had to retcon almost everything from that film to make this one work makes no sense. Johnson even said he knew his vision was going to bring a lot of controversy, but at least he had the balls to try something different. There are some things that happen in TLJ can definitely fuck off, but after watching it again right before ROS, I have more respect for it now.
Only By Night
Sorry for double post, phone glitched out.
Active Member
The biggest problem with TLJ as a middle episode is that it didn't set up IX with anything. I told you (well not necessarily you specifically) that I don't really care about IX because there is nothing to solve there, nothing interesting. Have you ever read a good book, or just watched a good story? Look at something we all know: Lord of the Rings. There's a ring, and the unlikely hero with his unlikely friends need to bring it to an unlikely place. Well, sounds impossible!!!! Let's see how our heroes fare in the journey!!!
Now imagine if halfway through the story Frodo says fuck this and throws away the ring. Yeah, epic, unexpected, revolutionary. Great. What do we do now? We have a bunch of people against an endless force, without having any indication of a possible solution to this problem, because Frodo was too cool for school. Give that story to anyone in the world, dead or alive, and they won't be able to make a good story without a "ring". They would have to pull things out of their ass.
At least JJ gave SOMETHING for Rian to play with. Let's just agree that everything Rian did was great and he solved JJ's riddles' in a very smart way. Fine, but you need to pass the torch. You can't be selfish. You have to place your own hooks, which you or the next director/writer can follow up. You can't just solve all the storylines and call it a day.
And once again, we can't blame neither JJ nor Rian for this mess. JJ did a very decent job to make a white canvas, where you have more than enough freedom to move these characters around - yes, you can even pull shit like killing Snoke, because JJ left so many hooks in TFA, that you didn't have to give a "proper" send-off to all of them. And Rian did what he was asked to do, to follow it up. If no executives told Rian that he needs to open up the story a bit for continuity's sake, then why the fuck should he had done it? If Kennedy smiles and nods to his script, why should he change it?
People should realize that it's pointless to dissect JJ for not making the best of a big pile of shit. The question should be why did we even have a big pile of shit to begin with? And once again, Kathleen Kennedy. We - rightfully so - bash Lucas for his shitty and destructive antics, there is really no reason Kathleen should get away with this mess. She approved all this mess: she hired JJ to paint an open-ended story, she hired Rian and let him go crazy with it, then she realized she doesn't like it AFTER THE FUCKING RELEASE, then rehired JJ who was never supposed to return in the first place... amateur hour.
This all being said, I am very much looking forward to tomorrow, because it seems like the climax of the biggest trainwrecks of AAA cinema in recent years.
How is this possibly true? Johnson answered every single question we had after TFA... the only option he left open was the possibility of a Jedi reinforcements... IF the next director is willing to time jump 20 years into the future.
I think you have a misconception about what an empty canvas means. TFA was an empty canvas, because it had many questions which could go many-many ways. TLJ was... done. They had to either leave it open-ended (ie. someone gets abducted, just to copy and paste Han's story from Empire), or they had to give episode IX to Rian as well.
Edit: also, who hires a writer from Batman v Superman??? What makes anyone think "yeah, that guy is what we need"????? Hilarious for al lthe wrong reasons
Last edited by Volband; 12-21-2019 at 10:33 AM.
BADGERS
There is something to solve at the end of episode 8: Kylo Ren is still at large, still in the Dark Side. Rey has more training to do. This is going to sound crazy, but most stories are driven by character development, not bullshit mysteries
Even with all said and done. The sequel trilogy is Kylo Ren's story, and that was still the case at the end of 8. Abrams had a perfect opportunity for a less messy, less mystery box movie that maintains the same beats of Kylo Ren's story here, but also doesn't go out of its way to undo some of the positive messaging of Johnson's movie.
That's why the Rey twist is the worst thing to me. It adds nothing to the movie except to bring back dynasties. To fly in the face of individual agency. Even bringing back the emperor, which is hilariously childish, could have been tolerable if they just kept Rey's heritage intact. I would have merely rolled my eyes at other petty gestures like bringing back kylos mask, or bringing back Luke's lightsaber.
Even the logistics of the Rey's heritage don't make any sense. When did palpatine have a fucking child? And which of these two stoner idiots was it? I guess he had this kid around episode 3.... With who?! What?! Who fucked this guy?
Only By Night
Absolutely disagree. Did we watch the same movie? There was absolutely nothing original in TFA, with the exception of the possibility of who Rey may have been, along with Snoke which I do agree was handled poorly. Kylo didn't feel nearly as enjoyable until you see how conflicted he really is in TLJ. Yes, it could have gone many, many ways, but that isn't what we got in the final product, instead we got an upgraded death star. The TLJ showing that there are other force savy children out there opens the universe up enough to bring the next film in a different direction and with a much more interesting tie in for ROS. Instead, we get yet again rehashed ideas and tropey fuckery.
Last edited by Self.Destructive.Pattern; 12-21-2019 at 10:42 AM.
24.24.1.1425 [Executed]
I enjoyed it for what it was. I was not expecting it to be fantastic, I knew that the plot was a complete mess after TLJ. But they made something fairly coherent, which provided some sense of closure for the story. Yes, I definitely could have done without the force healing and death switcheroos. I expected it to entertain me and it did it's job there.
Active Member
TFA was not original. If I ever said that, whip me at a town square, because I'd deserve it. But it was a decent start. There were no ominous writings on the wall that we will end up having this mess. Sure, we were afraid of them copying all the OT movies, but that's all.
@Wretchedest: every character driven story needs something to drag those characters along. Whether it's a ring, or trying to rescue their friends. You can't just finish the second installment of a trilogy with "aaand 98% of the good guys, who had already been outnumbered, are gone now, and the big evil army is still big and evil." Wtf is that? Maybe it's good for a season finale, and then next season you'll have ~12 episodes to do something, but absolutely terrible as a set up to a third and last movie. Who cares? What should we all be excited for? Whether good will win? No. You need those "damn, there is NO way they are bringing the ring to Mordor, nu-uh!! I've got to see it though, because I'm really hoping they will!" stuff in your stories. Abduct Finn. Have Rey stumble upon a group of secret Jedi. Make Rose do a speech about how their only chance is that if they unite the 6 "space kingdoms" who hate each other, but with combined forces, we can win!!!!! Give us ANYTHING to be excited for. Alas, we got nothing.
Again, if after this trilogy anyone seriously thinks it's either Rian's or JJ's fault, then we all deserve this shit, and we all deserve Kathleen Kennedy. Imagine having the salary and power she's having, and making these flabbergasting, utterly bad choices one after another. She had soooo many opportunities to fix them, but she missed them all. Imagine the equivalent of hiring a writer from Batman v Superman in your area of work. I don't know what any of you are doing for a living, but you'd be all fired in an instant.
Trollhunter
If nothing else, I’m legitimately pleased you have found your way to this logical stance.
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