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Faceplams: Got tickets for a morning 3D showing in Cardiff on Thursday while the boys are in school, bit nervous about how the whole thing will come together to be honest
Active Member
Got tickets for a morning 3D showing in Cardiff on Thursday while the boys are in school, bit nervous about how the whole thing will come together to be honest
Behold the morning star
Reactions are in.
It goes from a big fuck you to last jedi. So those who hated it will love it. This who loved last jedi are hating it. These are critics and I never trust critics.
Kevin smith loved it. But he loves everything so.
Administrator
Looking forward to forming my own opinions about this ninth laser sword movie after I had opinions about the other eight laser sword movies.Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian
BADGERS
JJ Abrams is an idiot who was never qualified to do this in the first place.
Trollhunter
Sounds like Kennedy caved to the hateful whiny fanboys. That sets a bad precedent. Looks as if I’m going to be disappointed.
xScott
Well since I don't like these new films, I must be a hateful whiney fan boy too, I'm done here. Have fun guys!
Unintelligible Whispering
Yeah, there were plenty of valid criticisms about VIII. Labeling anyone who didn't like it as hateful strikes me as a bit disingenuous. There are always going to be assholes who rear their ugly head, but two years on I'd like to think we recognize those chapters of the internet for what they are - an ugly minority. VII pissed people off too.
I'm going to go down as saying based on some stuff I've seen, this whole trilogy is going to go down as a giant clusterfuck and The Mandalorian just might be the only stellar live action thing to come out of SW in a really, really long time.
Trollhunter
You liked the post criticizing JJ but facepalmed the one aimed at the person running the trilogy? I’m a little confused. Yes, there were a ton of sexist comments levied at the actress playing Rose. Yes, there were tons of shitty comments made about inclusion. Those are the trolling assholes I’m angry at, and Kennedy has handed them credibility by retconning TLJ.
Last edited by Swykk; 12-17-2019 at 10:08 AM.
Quiet Member
lol
Active Member
Kevin Smith loved AOTC.
Active Member
Yeah, I like Kevin a lot, but I take his opinions on this stuff with a truck load of salt.
Active Member
This new trilogy (and I say this without having seen IX) suffers from the "made it up as they went along" syndrome, kind of like Star Trek Discovery season 2.
I have enjoyed these new films, but a blueprint from the start, mapping everything out, would have been a good idea.
Active Member
I've been saying this almost verbatim from the start. I also have enjoyed 6 and 7 for what they are, but I can't help but wonder what could've been if they just had a fucking plan for the films ahead of time. It drives me nuts that they had to do another trilogy just because the previous ones were trilogies. Why not just make as many films as the story requires? Whether that be 2 or 4 or even 3 if the story was there. The lack of planning is just baffling for something so big and so important to so many people.
Administrator
Have any of you seen the film yet?
Active Member
geez, now you're applying standards like "seen the movie" to criticism? next up you'll want people to actually listen to an album!
Active Member
I have enjoyed all of the new Disney-era Star Wars films, though certainly some more than others (I prefer them in this order: TFA, RO, Solo, TLJ), but I have gotten that same feeling – that they've been making it up as they go – regarding episodes VII-IX. The fact that all three installments in the sequel trilogy were originally intended to be directed by three different directors (with the middle installment being written by its director, no less) doesn't help to stave off this feeling. From what I've seen online from the first reactions, it sounds like they've mostly pulled it off, so I'm excited and looking forward to Thursday evening, but also trying to maintain a healthy level of cautious optimism.
she/her/hers
from what i can gather talking to my critic friends, it seems like people who liked TLJ hate ep IX, and vice versa, so i'm a bit worried (as i love TLJ). guess i'll see what happens come thursday :/
Quiet Member
It was clear that with TLJ they wanted to appeal to a very specific community of fans (who despised SW for years, btw) and now they decided to hold that back a little? So in some way they are now trying to appeal to the original fanbase (who cared very little for the TLJ style).
And that's why SW is just a product. If you are making art, you don't care if it's offensive, if it's representative, whatever, it's your vision.
When you have countless producers, reshoots and an aim to please a certain group of fans... that's just a product.
I never liked SW but I think the old ones have a special thing in them. The prequel is mostly unwatchable to me but I liked Revenge of the Sith.
As for the Disney years... They gave the "force" a different meaning. They just wanted to force stuff down people's throats instead (lol im so funny).
Look, I couldn't care less if C3PO is gay, if Lando fucks spaceships, if Commander Pryde (lol) kicked the alpha male's ass during an epic scene or not.
I just want a good story.
You know what a good modern trilogy was? Planet of the Apes. Three good movies, Caesar was just awesome in his imperfections, fears and struggles (can't say the same about Rey). It was very well written, directed and shot. There was no agenda, and they didn't give a fuck about representativeness. They just showed humans as we truly are.
They just need to drop the representativeness stuff. I am a black man and I feel represented by so many different characters in so many different scenarios. Just write good stories, leave politics aside a bit and everyone will be happy. Except, you know, twitter, tumblr or whatever.
Throbbing Member
To an extent. If someone is a true artist and needs to completely change the core of what something like Star Wars is, then just don't take the job. If you don't want to make something that feels like Star Wars and takes careful consideration to what has come before; that is wrong. Why shouldn't it please fans? As a huge fan I want things that cater to me to an extent. Just my opinion.
Trollhunter
I mean, congrats to you guys that want repetitive easy to see coming tropes. Party at Volband’s house?
Me? I enjoyed watching Luke come full circle (anyone that didn’t know he was a whiner and a pessimist missed all of A New Hope and parts of Empire and ROTJ, I guess?). I loved Rey being a nobody because that means anyone can be a hero. I thought Rose was sweet for trying to get Finn to fix his self destructive ways. I liked seeing Poe learning to grow up. I liked that Ren was irredeemable.
I don’t plan on blaming Abrams for this. It’s 100% on Kathleen Kennedy, who will trash any director to make herself look good. And once again, it is gross that she caved to the toxic fanboys.
Edit: the Collider review confirms my concerns. “If all you desire is “I recognize the thing!” then Rise of Skywalker is the movie for you.”
Last edited by Swykk; 12-18-2019 at 11:11 AM.
BADGERS
I think it's ridiculous to imply that "original fans" didn't like TLJ. I'm an original fan and it's one of my favorite star wars movies. If not my absolute favorite.
Part of being an "original" fan is growing up with these movies. Growing up, and reflecting on their lack of a deliberate voice, the flaws in their mechanics, and the tiresome nature of the redundancy of this perpetual iterating. TLJ checks all of that and offers a way forward. It's fresh and intelligent and cognizent of what's going on with the story telling.
When I read these reviews and I read spoilers and they all indicate that JJ sought to undo that movie in even surprisingly specific ways, it's fucking super disappointing. Even in the trailers stuff like palpatine coming back is so brazenly stupid that I find it hard to look forward to this movie. The perfect symbol of that is the reconstruction of Kylo Ren's mask, one of many objects symbolically destroyed in TLJ. Abrams slapping that metaphor out of Johnson's hand just turns this trilogy into a very high profile pissing contest. Maybe the whole thing should never have happened.
Also:
This is bullshit. Creation is a deliberate act, artists make choices. Artist choose who they are offending and who they are defending and who they are representing. To not do so conscientiously simply makes them stupid.If you are making art, you don't care if it's offensive, if it's representative, whatever, it's your vision.
Every story is political. From a shitty ad on TV to Star Wars to Bergman, Marvel, Scorsese. Everything. Because stories universally depict conflicts and the artists who craft those stories choose who the heroes and villains of those conflicts are and choose the stakes and catalysts of those conflicts. All of those ingredients build philosophy and operate on assumptions about the world. A story teller is depicting how they view the world as it is, as it was, as it should be. And that's political. And to not do so conscientiously is ignorant.
Last edited by Wretchedest; 12-18-2019 at 09:16 AM.
Unintelligible Whispering
It's all well and good to want to create something different, but you can do that without intentionally trying to tip the boat over. And TLJ did that to such an extent that it was tiresome, and it shoved its foot in its mouth trying to prove its point. You can't blather on about needing to kill the past and create something new while simultaneously refusing to show us a matured Luke who's overcome his flaws and offering up fifteen minutes of force ghost Yoda. IMO That's as dumb as, say, Palpatine showing up again. it's as trapped by past SW films as any of its predecessors.
Star Wars was always a fun fantasy space opera, first and foremost. Heroes and villains. Destiny. All that kinda jazz. And if people want an unpredictable Star Wars, cool, but TLJ was just so obnoxious about how different it tried to be, I had a hard time enjoying myself while watching it. I don't really think I found much of it exciting barring the opening space battle and the later Rey & Kylo fight.
I'd really like to know what the younger audience thought of TLJ. I'd venture to say that that's when most people form their bonds with Star Wars, in their younger years. And I'm picturing kids seeing the TLJ trailers and getting all psyched up to see a cool battle across salt flats, and then they go to the theatre and it's just scrappy speeders petering out and there's no real battle at all.
As far as JJ undoing what RJ did, all I've got to say is "turnabout is fair play". It does feel like a dick-waggling contest, the whole thing. And because of how sloppily it's all been handled, it feels as relevant to the OT as the old expanded universe did. I feel like it's all just "some other people's disconnected take on what happens later in George's universe". Falls flat for me, like when they dropped a moon on Chewie. Your heroes should be allowed to just walk off into the sunset, and I'd like to be surprised and learn that at the very least Leia lives through 9. At this point, I think that's the only thing I'm not expecting.
Unintelligible Whispering
Can we not all agree that they are...
paying a price for their lack of vision?
Active Member
i'm excited to see more space ninjas!!!
Active Member
Excited to see this film tomorrow morning - not looked at any spoilers except that reactions are ‘mixed’
Bored
Holy Yoda Force Ghost, this. This a hundred times. And in TLJ, Luke failed Ben Solo because he could not trust himself enough to not fail him. And when Ben went postal, Luke, in perfect Luke fashion, went away to pout and pity himself. It took Rey to get Luke to stop focusing on his little self and do something for the greater good: for his beloved twin sister and maybe even for whatever may be left of Ben Solo in Kylo Ren.
In selflessness, Luke Skywalker redeemed himself. And that is what I love about The Last Jedi. And it took me time to see that.
Active Member
Just got back from the cinema and jesus christ... this is such a mixed bag! I thoroughly enjoyed it, but it's messy and blatantly obvious that they rushed this one. It still feels like a proper send off though and probably the best thing we could have gotten out of all the loose strings. Really don't know what to say. Was it trash? A little bit. Was there good acting? There was indeed! Was it fun? Certainly!
Will have to make up my mind about this tomorrow. I feel like a second viewing isnt' unjustified and I might do that on a even bigger screen to soak it in a bit more. As much as I disliked a few things right from the beginning, this really was an enjoyable movie and I definitely had a good night at the cinema today. But one thing is for sure and that came to my mind as soon as I saw the title crawl: there is a movie missing between this and TLJ.
BADGERS
I blame the mystery box concept as a whole
Active Member
Haven't seen it yet, as after all the shitty teasers, I can't be bothered to rush it; in fact, I'd rather skip this movie alltogether, but it's somewhat of a custom now with family, so ehh. But you can't really blame JJ or Rian. They both did what they were told they can and should do. Most of Rian's shitty ideas are due to time concerns; if he was allowed to build it from episode VII, they wouldn't feel so out of place, rushed and amateurish. And even without seeing IX, I can't blame JJ, because everyone and their mother knows that JJ is not a finisher guy. If you want a cool idea rolling, you get JJ. If you want to finish a cool and rolling idea, you get someone else.
Every time you blame JJ or Rian for the failure of this trilogy, Kennedy gets away with murder, and a children in Africa dies. Just saying.
Throbbing Member
I thought it was pretty decent overall. The action set-pieces were good, everything looks and sounds great, but it really suffers from throwing-anything-at-the-story-and-hoping-something-sticks syndrome, especially when viewed as a whole trilogy. It barely registered any emotional response in me (which, if I'm being honest, was also an issue with the entire trilogy and it probably has something to do with me being 36 rather than 12). But I do believe that, in the end, they didn't manage to develop the characters enough to make us care. There were some good foundations, mostly with Rey and Kylo, but they got lost in the big mess that is the story. The whole thing feels mostly lifeless; nostalgia-baiting simply can't work on its own forever.
But anyway, despite my mostly negative outlook for the way this trilogy was handled, I agree with @dlb , it still remains an entertaining film.
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