Nine Inch Nails & Christian conservatives

[Halo Infinity]

After seeing Nine Inch Nails being brought up in the Donald Trump (Trump 2017: Year Zero) thread, I thought about making this one. This is something that has always fascinated me since becoming a fan in 2002 because I have always been surrounded by Christian conservatives my entire life. I also thought that I'd have an attempt at finally making this topic public, as it's a topic I'd sometimes often bring up with various members via private messaging.

Even though I was already shocked by Marilyn Manson at the time, as I was a fan of his about a year earlier, in some ways, Nine Inch Nails shocked me a bit more as a first-time listener. Terrible Lie, Heresy and The Wretched had me taken aback at the time because I knew most of the people I know would call it blasphemous and sacrilegious, and on top of that offensive due to the profanity. Some of them were also very uncomfortable and disturbed at the rest of the content and topics the songs and albums had to offer, and looking back I could see why, considering where my religious faith and convictions were at the time.

And by all means, I totally understand as to how and why the majority of fans would most likely be atheist/agnostic and liberal (And progressive.) as well. I've noticed that on ETS since 2004, and it has seemed to be that way since 2002. I also don't really know any atheists and liberals in real life either, and if I did, they certainly had absolutely nothing to do with any of my family's social circles, as just about all of them come from either the Seventh-day Adventist Church or the Roman Catholic Church, with most of them being active and involved members of their organized religions and while also being evangelicals. A lot more of them also happened to be Democrats, but I've also seen a fair share of Republicans as well. If they also had any other ideologies surrounding them, they also seemed to be very traditionalist and libertarian.

Even just reading about the majority's views and opinions on sex, marriage, dieting and drugs blew my mind for the very first time over here, and it still does, especially when compared to the social circles I've been exposed to in the entirety of my actual life, which are in some ways the complete opposite of everything I read here.

However, as far as gun control and undocumented immigrants, most of them would definitely be on board.

While I also made a thread about Nine Inch Nails and religion, I thought about making this specifically about Nine Inch Nails and Christians, as well as both social and political conservatives. Like say, The Simpsons, South Park and Marilyn Manson, NIN was also one of the very things that introduced me to life outside of the religious right from my life as a child to a teenager. I know it shouldn't be a surprise either in many ways, but it is certainly interesting to see opposing views being discussed among specific interests that would seem to be very contradictory.

It would also probably be kind of like making a "Ted Nugent & atheist liberals" thread on a Ted Nugent forum from the looks of it.

This thread is also about your experience as a NIN fan and Christian conservatives' reactions to NIN, or say, if even you, yourself happen to be a Christian conservative NIN fan. I also doubt that this is exclusive to ETS either, as I've also seen far more atheist liberals on NIN.com or just about any other corner of the Internet that discusses NIN.

Like any other form of entertainment or media, it is still very interesting for me to see which social, political and even religious views are more compatible with who or what. And not to say that it's all because of NIN, or always one way or another either as there are always exceptions.

And well, I hope this thread goes well, since can certainly I see as to how it probably might not. I also figured that it would probably best to go here should NIN ever become a topic regarding conservative social, political and religious (More specifically, Christian.) issues again on the In the Headlines section.

I also wanted to get this off my chest for a very long time. So anyway, what's your take on being on or off the left while taking the ride with NIN?

[Tommy_Macbeth]

I'm disturbed by the left becoming more violent and senseless in recent time. Just because someone is a supporter for something you don't agree with doesn't mean you are 100% free to do whatever you want to them because socially they are the pariah or "deplorable". And it must be so fun to scream and criticize others for not agreeing with you, when the things you are calling for don't mean YOU personally are affected. Just go with the crowd, be part of the team that declares itself to be so virtuous and righteous and superior to the "racists", and "men", and "white" who mostly just the world/country to work and help everyone but aren't trying to get attention or feel better about the truth that they are insignificant and not perfect. I know there's a lot of holes in what I just wrote, but it was coming from the heart. All of that with NIN, well, NIN to me politically doesn't represent the left or any ideology/stance, it just means that BS is alive and well and you need to be aware of that.

[Dr Channard]

...Nine Inch Nails shocked me a bit more as a first time listener. Terrible Lie, Heresy and The Wretched had me taken aback at the time because I knew most of the people I know would call it blasphemous and sacrilegious, and on top of that offensive due to the profanity. Some of them were also very uncomfortable and disturbed at the rest of the content and topics the songs and albums had to offer, and looking back I could see why, considering where my religious faith and convictions were at the time.

Sure nin had some graphic lyrics and imagery, but man, the bible isn’t all sunshine and lollypops. If some of the stuff that is in the bible were depicted in a movie just as the book describes, it would be rated R or worse. Like when high priest Phinehas saw an Israelite chieftain having sex with a Midianite woman so he killed them both by running a lance through their genitals. That’s like a Friday the 13th Jason Voorhees kind of a kill. Nothing against Christianity, but objectively the bible subject matter gets a little dicey sometimes. How is nin any worse than that?

[sleepless]

Theologically, I am an agnostic. Philosophically, if I had to label myself I guess I would say secular humanist, but it's not something I often give much thought. Politically, I am a moderate skewing liberal on social issues and conservative on economics - so I don't fit well into our two party system and like so many I'm disappointed in what seems to be an increasingly divisive political climate, so I tend to be pretty apathetic day-to-day.

My parents were both raised in very conservative evangelical Christian households, and though they did not outright reject that mindset, they did wind up moving relatively far from their families prior to my birth, and did not choose to make that my formative environment. I am pleasantly surprised they allowed me to listen to whatever I wanted - including of course a lot of NIN - even moreso now that I am a father (if my son is listening to country music when he's 12 - and we're geographically at risk of that - I hope I can be equally as tolerant). I remember my dad telling me how his dad broke all of his Elton John records (it would be another couple decades before I realized how awesome Elton John is) and I'd bet that had a lot to do with his open-mindedness.

In any case, in the absence of pressure from my parents or others in my daily life to believe any certain set of religious or philosophical doctrine, I do think the fact that a lot of the music I listened to during my formative years (and the television shows I watched) touched on religion and philosophy opened my mind a bit and played a role in shaping my current thinking.

[Your Name Here]

So Kris, I read your post a couple of times and then I decided I wasn't going to post a reply because I got home from work and I'm exhausted and just didn't feel like I was up to the task of taking on religion and NIN, but then I kept thinking about it.
Let me first explain where I am coming from, I am an atheist/very liberal and I have kind of a very negative outlook on religion. Let me explain why that is. I look at all religions as nothing more then philosophies, I think you can draw some good view points or some good life lessons from all of them, for example "Thou shall not steal" that is a pretty good life lesson something you can take away from that, words to live by etc. At the same time I find a lot if not all the religions tend to be more exclusive then inclusive which seems to be contradictory to their basic premise. I have a lot of people in my life that are very good friends of mine that are gay, I am very gay friendly and I definitely support the LGBT community. I however am not gay but as stated a lot of my friends are. One particular friend of mine that is gay grew up in a catholic household, when he came out to his family it was very traumatic for his family and also for him. He felt shunned by the church and it caused so much pain for him and his family. He really wanted to continue being a practicing catholic but at the time it was all too much for him so he left the church because he was a gay man and he had to be true to himself even if the religion he loved could not understand him. Watching all of this first hand and all the pain he and his family went through turned me off religion forever. I know the catholic church now has relaxed its views towards gay people. Here was somebody who wanted to be a gay man and a practicing catholic and at that time it just could not be done.
As I said I think you can find elements in any religion that is worth living. I think that Satanism (Anton LeVey) has some things in it that are words to live by, putting yourself first is a great life lesson, because if you don't put yourself first nobody else is going to.
Rock music tends to be very liberal in general from back in the 60's Bob Dylan put political messages in his music and a lot of the 60's rock artists had very liberal messages in their music. Country tends to be for the conservatives and rock music for the liberals of coarse there are exceptions.
NIN's music seems to come from a place of darkness, I think Trent Reznor would be a kickass horror writer novels etc. Trent has a way of saying very dark and scary things without coming right out and saying it. His method is subtle but effective, he never actually says it but its implied. Marilyn Manson (who I like, mostly his earlier stuff) tends to be very in your face about it, If he is talking about Satan he usually mentions him by name or various names, Ozzy Osbourne does the same thing. I love Antichrist Superstar but Manson is good but Reznor is better. I will take Reznor's subtle dark metaphors over Manson's blatant in your face lyrics any day.
As a christian are you able to say okay I can enjoy this NIN music without my christian beliefs taking over or vice versa. Are you able to enjoy them both without it feeling contradictory or hypocritical? I can't answer that only you can.
For me I think NIN in the lyrics makes more statements with regards to politics more so then religion. I think the best songwriters are the ones that leave their messages open to interpretation, Bowie was a master at that. However I think Trent does this as well maybe not on the same level as Bowie did, but some of the NIN lyrics are open to interpretation.
These are basically my opinions and my beliefs and I don't expect anybody to agree with anything that I say and at the same time I am not trying to offend anybody with my beliefs however you asked.
I have had enough experiences in my life that have led me to believe there is no God and religion is nothing more then philosophy.

[onthewall2983]

I'm agnostic and something about the crucial line in "Heresy" rubs me wrong. It's comparable to Gene Hackman chiding his assistant in The Conversation for saying "Jesus Christ" (Nicolas Cage's character in Matchstick Men does the same thing, actually).

[Halo Infinity]

So I had some more time to think about this and now I feel very foolish and sometimes admittedly horrible for not realizing this right away. When you're reared in a bubble of any kind, you tend to assume that most people are like your family and your family's friends in real life.

And now, if you go on the Internet forum, accessible to all parts of the world, especially if it's about anything/dedicated to anything popular/famous, and not just with Nine Inch Nails, but entertainment in general, it's really no wonder that you'd see people from all walks of life. This goes to show the long-term effects of being reared in a bubble while being very sheltered on top of that. That's why it was so shocking to me to see where the majority of Echoing the Sound and Nine Inch Nails fans stood when it came to sociopolitical topics and religion since back in 2004. Oh, and not that I assumed everybody was a Christian conservative or more specifically Adventist either, but being that was all I was surrounded by, seeing and meeting atheist liberals was incredibly rare for me with the exception of seeing them sometimes at school, and as of right now, work. Even whatever non-religious friends and acquaintances I've had from my parents' families and their friends were still theists on some level in spite of being liberal, or even progressive. And as mentioned in my first post, for the rest of my family and my family's friends that weren't Adventist, they were Catholic. So that still ruled out all types of of unbelievers.

And it has to be a bubble in some ways because they just not discourage people from marrying and dating non-Adventists, but they also strongly recommend against becoming close friends with non-Adventists. Perhaps not to the point of necessarily shunning them, but it seems like they only make friends as an attempt to recruit potential converts, as any other evangelical/protestant denomination would.

Some Christians even reject all secular music at the most extreme, so this isn't just always exclusive to one or a few particular genres of music.

It's also really not just an ETS/NIN thing. It's an Internet/global thing, and a reminder that even back then, I should've never gone by observing just the people with in the bubble I came from. It had to have also been a force of habit, since when it's taught from an early age it sticks with you forever and ever. That truly is the power of the bubble though as it really does make you think that's all the world is, or what most of the world is when it really isn't so. And with the Internet continuing to progress, it's easier than ever to check out different beliefs and views these days anyway. As the saying goes, if I knew then what I know now, I would've never been shocked/phased/startled/surprised. I would've never even flinched.

This also goes to show just how closed off I really was and still am from the non-Adventist world.

@elevenism - Speaking of being shocked, I'm actually shocked that you didn't get to this thread yet either. Anyway, you know I had to mention you here.

[elevenism]

@Halo Infinity , I wouldn't know about nin and conservative christians.

I'm like a, idk, a pseudo Gnostic Christian pantheist? I guess?

I believe that like most christians are totally getting it wrong. I focus on what Jesus SAID - I think that's more important that what it says he DID.

Idk. I'm obsessed with theology.

But I'm DaMN sure not a Christian conservative, nor have i.ever been one. I wasn't raised in that sort of household, either: my dad's a biker and my parents always had a rock band.

So, while I identify as christian, I'm not like, THAT kind of christian. For me, it's mostly about love and altruism, NOT whether or.not you believe the story.

You know what I mean? Matthew 5,6 and 7, not John 3:16

[katara]

Just play them 'Find My Way'.