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Thread: Tapeworm demos/Helmet/Page Hamiltion involvement/1995 tour

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    Tapeworm demos/Helmet/Page Hamiltion involvement/1995 tour

    So, I'm surprised nobody has made these connections before, but here it is.

    First off, that elusive 1995 club tour with Helmet as openers. I'm surprised that nobody dug this up before, but it explains why no recordings exist: http://www.mtv.com/news/1458727/nine...-week-in-1995/ In this interview, Page Hamilton (frontman for Helmet) states that once they arrived in Florida, NIN failed to mention that Reznor was sick, and so the rest of the tour was cancelled as Helmet simply sat around. Looking back at the tour dates, Pensacola was the third date of the tour, meaning that they played Houston and New Orleans, and that was it. So, finding someone that recorded one of those two small shows, is like finding a needle in the haystack.

    A few months ago, Page Hamilton did an interview here: http://www.alternativenation.net/pag...e-buddy-holly/ In this interview, he confirms that he stayed in New Orleans for awhile in the late '90s/early '00s. It was here that him and Charlie Clouser wrote together, and basically the song "Enemies" off of the 2004 Helmet album Size Matters came from this session. Also to note the songs "Throwing Punches" and "Speak and Spell" also has Clouser as a co-writer, but not sure if it's from the same sessions.



    I might as well state the obvious, but Page is credited on guitar for "No, You Don't" off of The Fragile as well. A couple of weeks ago, I came across a video that compiled a bunch of Page Hamilton demos from 2000. Due to the timeframe of the recordings, along with Page collaborating with Clouser and Reznor during this time, these MIGHT be Tapeworm demos. Nobody simply put two and two together. Go ahead and listen to them (especially that first track), and judge for yourself. There are no official credits for these songs, so I don't know who was actually performing.



    I just thought all this was pretty interesting and should be shared. And yes, I have dug thru the Helmet live archives as well looking for a 1995 recording, and no luck lol.

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    That doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the tour never happened, though. It says that Helmet stayed in Pensacola for five days, so the tour could have picked back up after Trent's voice came back. I would say if the other dates were cancelled, Helmet wouldn't have been just waiting around like that.

    EDIT: Here's a guy on the old NIN.com forums who attended the Miami Beach and Ft. Lauderdale shows:
    http://member.nin.com/member/DNB_MAKES_ME_SPEED
    Last edited by piggy; 11-25-2016 at 10:24 PM.

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    Interesting. There's just so little proof of that tour, I'm surprised no recording has surfaced. I've been looking for one for years now, as has everyone else.

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    I certainly wouldn't put any stock in anything posted on Alternative Nation. That site is notorious around the internet for taking interviews out of context, clickbait articles and cribbing other sites' work.

    Their journalistic ethos are pretty deplorable, as well. They spent all last year trashing Scott Weiland on that site, then groveled for an interview with him right before his death, and then buried the guy's wife after he died.

    So am I going to believe anything that site allegedly spoke to Page Hamilton about? Yea...no, lol

    Also, for what it's worth...Enemies and a slew of other songs off Size Matters were originally meant for Hamilton's post-Helmet project Ghandi, before Jimmy Iovine convinced Hamilton to re-start Helmet in 2003. The stuff that Hamilton had kicking around for the unrealized Ghandi record wound up comprising the bulk of the Size Matters album. That album still rips and rages, even if it's not exactly Helmet..

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    I'm having trouble matching any of these demos with Helmet/Page songs aside from Throwing Punches. It doesn't help that the track titles on the YouTube video don't match the order (or quantity) of what's in the audio.

    There are eight tracks in that video - the second one, starting at about 4:30, is Throwing Punches.

    Anyone want to take stabs at which of these tracks appear when in the YouTube timeline?

    Enemies
    Sleep
    L.A. Water
    Low Expectations
    Crashing Foreign Cars

    Without vocals, it's always difficult to establish provenance on stuff like this.

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    Lest we not forget that Throwing Punches first appeared on Danny Lohner's Underworld Soundtrack before Helmet even announced a comeback. And that the first Puscifer song and the only Damning Well song were also on there. Richard Patrick told me personally that there was a lot of insectious (sp) stuff going on in the early 00's. With everyone from John 5 to Ken Andrews to Wes Borland to Josh Freese trying to get in on the next big supergroup (like APC, Zwan, YOTR, Velvet Revolver, and even Audioslave). So I'm not sure how this ties into Tapeworm, but perhaps Trent/MJK were somehow at the center of all this. Records like Anthems for the Damned and Cruel Melody and even Ashes Divide were litered with guest song writers. Hell, Josh Freese even co-Wrote "In My Head" which paved the way for MANTRA (Grolh drummed on With Teeth too). It's like one big family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure View Post
    Josh Freese even co-Wrote "In My Head" which paved the way for MANTRA
    LOL wut? I honestly don't see what you're driving at, there. You realize that song was originally written for the *last of ten* highly collaborative Desert Sessions records, yeah? Freese wasn't any sort of catalyst for those projects, although it's a great song he brought to the table.
    Last edited by botley; 11-27-2016 at 12:03 AM.

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    Not sure what I was trying to say last night; it had been a long day of drinking and listening to music. The point was that back 10-15 years ago, there was a tight-knit group of amazing artists that all rolled in the same circle. And not surprisingly, Josh Freese was involved in basically all of it. I am sure if Tapeworm ever toured, he would have been right there! LOL.

    One more note on Richard Patrick, he also told me that The Damning Well had a whole album's worth of material. Half of which was intended for him and the other half was intended for Amy Lee. Nothing ever really happened with that stuff though; if memory serves, the song What's Next on AFTD was co-written by Wes. Father Figure was a leftover from the Underworld era. But if anything, I'd like to think that our conversation inspired Richard to re-connect with Danny Lohner (thus leading to The City Of Blinding Riots).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ikranax View Post
    First off, that elusive 1995 club tour with Helmet as openers. I'm surprised that nobody dug this up before, but it explains why no recordings exist: http://www.mtv.com/news/1458727/nine...-week-in-1995/ In this interview, Page Hamilton (frontman for Helmet) states that once they arrived in Florida, NIN failed to mention that Reznor was sick, and so the rest of the tour was cancelled as Helmet simply sat around. Looking back at the tour dates, Pensacola was the third date of the tour, meaning that they played Houston and New Orleans, and that was it.
    Nope, I researched this extensively earlier this year, and the shows happened. The Florida shows were just delayed a few days from the original itinerary, due to his voice thing. The dates as presented on NIN Historian, NIN Tour History, et al, are from the original itinerary. I've corrected them now to the actual dates on NIN Wiki, with citations here.

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    This is a good thread, i love this stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure View Post
    Lest we not forget that Throwing Punches first appeared on Danny Lohner's Underworld Soundtrack
    For what it's worth, I think you're conflating two different phrases here. There's "let's not forget" and there's "lest we forget" but "lest we not forget" doesn't make any sense.

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    With regards to that Page Hamilton demo video...



    Since hearing a "true" Tapeworm song is not a possibility, if there was ever a song that I would immediately think was a Tapeworm song, it's the first 4:35 of this video. THAT is what I wanted it to sound like!!!

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    Tapeworm will surface one day. There's like an album's worth of music recorded somewhere, on something. No way it can stay buried forever..

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    Nah. I was under the impression the vast majority of the Tapeworm stuff wasn't finished in a listenable way. And the stuff that was has made it out in various forms that have been documented on here many times. Am I wrong?

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    I can't imagine that between 1996 - 2003, the best they could come up with were two MJK side-project tracks and (allegedly) a couple of instrumental snippets from one of the Underworld sequels.

    That just defies logic to me. They had everyone from Phil Anselmo to Toni Halliday in there and nothing was created that was listenable, even in demo form? That is one long, aimless album session that even Axl Rose would be envious of..

    Again I site the tried-n-true NINwiki Tapeworm page: http://www.nin.wiki/Tapeworm

    Moulder had tracked "more than an album's worth" of material, Lohner claims they had an album "ready to mix" and the band booked recording time in two different studios. No way you say/do that and have nothing to actually show for it.

    It's all lying on a hard drive in the dark somewhere. Right now, it's there. Somewhere.

    It will surface one day..

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    Not sure if this adds any value to the speculation presented in this thread, but around 2001/2002, one of my friends was on Magazine Street in New Orleans and personally witnessed Trent walking out of Nothing Studios with Richard Patrick in the middle of the day. Pretty sure this guy wouldn't have made this up since we live less than two hours from NOLA and visit the place (mostly for concerts) on a monthly basis.

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    I am just blown away how none of these shows got taped. I would definitely love to hear a few recordings from this tour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYRexall View Post

    It's all lying on a hard drive in the dark somewhere. Right now, it's there. Somewhere.

    It will surface one day..
    In the back of a closet underneath Trent's missing Grammys and the Antichrist Superstar masters.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninlive View Post
    I am just blown away how none of these shows got taped. I would definitely love to hear a few recordings from this tour.
    Me too. If the wiki page's setlist is to be believed (and I am curious as to where that was sourced from), the last 3 songs of the main set were Wish, Gave Up, and my favorite NIN song of all time Happiness in Slavery, followed up with and encore of extended versions of Sanctified and Dead Souls. Talk about a HOT setlist!!!

    I have bootlegs from bands like Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Marilyn Manson, and NIN, recorded at 4 of the clubs that were on this tour (Numbers, HoB, The Edge and Jannus Landing), so you would think that at least one of those tapers would have caught one of those dates.

    Although, in the citations that @TheBang added to the ninwiki page about this tour, he noted that shows were announced a day ahead of, or the day of the show via radio stations, and tickets were obtained via voucher. It might just be possible that nobody with the means and desire to bootleg these shows, was able to get into one of them.

    Regardless, with the exposure from your site, I think you are the best possibility for one of these seeing the light of day.
    Last edited by SM Rollinger; 12-15-2016 at 10:08 AM.

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    I guess Trent basically said that what they were doing wasn't really given them the "wow" affect and they decided to just not release anything.
    Plus i think the legal side might have caused issues as they were all signed to different labels etc.

    I totally agree it will surface at some point. It would be interesting to hear no matter what shape, form it currently is in.


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    At long last...

    Tapeworm: the untold story, in pictures



    Trent: Ffs, how many times do I have to tell these people not to leave their soda cans on my modulator consoles?

    Atticus: I've heard of sitting on your hands, waiting for the inspiration to strike, but jesus christ..

    Danny: This was supposed to be *my* show. And then he brings in this fuckin' guy..

    MJK: I'm a lonely Starbucks lover, Tool bandmates drive me insane, got this blank page here, baaaaby, and I'm takin' names...



    MJK: I'm telling you, it's the sulfites that give the flavor its potency and edge..

    Trent: ...edge...sledge...potency...potions...

    Danny: And people wonder why it takes a half-decade or more to see product from Camp NIN..

    Atticus: (I mean, I heard he was short, but god damn..)



    MJK: You know, it really is a lovely little house..

    Trent: I bet marodi and her gang over at ETS would just lose their minds trying to spot this thing in photos..




    Josh: So, uh, did you summon me here to work, or...?

    Trent: We're not doing a goddamn thing until somebody confesses to laying their fingers on my Butterfinger..

    Atticus: zzz...zzz...zzz

    Danny: This is my life, and it's ending one minute at a time..



    Trent: So I says "Maynard, if you're gonna wait five years or more between records, at least get a couple live albums/remix albums out so you have some kind of income. Nobody is going to be stupid enough to show up to a tour where you just play the same eight songs every time.."

    Danny: (I haven't heard bullshit this epic since that Trust Company album I produced..)

    Josh: Right, are we going to actually create something here, or can I go back to recording 13th Step with Billy?

    Random guy holding up bookcase: I snuck in here off the street an hour ago and they still have no idea I'm standing here..



    Josh: (to Trent) If we want to give people the impression that we're actually accomplishing something, shouldn't I at least pretend like I'm playing...?



    MJK: You know, in Tool, Adam can usually create an entire album around the same three or four riffs..

    Danny: (Control yourself...don't kill him...think of the money...)



    Trent: Huh, I guess albums really don't just write themselves..

    Atticus: (Had I known that 2nd "12 Rounds" album was going to get me this far up the asshole of debt, I'd have shopped it around a bit more..)



    Danny: Dear Diary, I'm becoming less defined, as days go by..



    Alan: No, Trent, I don't think inviting Billy Corgan to the Tapeworm project would be a hot idea..
    Last edited by Prettybrokenspiral; 12-16-2016 at 12:25 PM.

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    Atticus: Hi, honey. Yes, working late again. No, still nothing accomplished. Trent? We haven't seen him in weeks, tbh..

    Alan: And fuck, I thought recording MCIS was time-consuming..



    Trent: Welp, again nobody's shown up to the studio. Guess I'll just start hashing out that Fragile follow-up..

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    How aboot the Alternative Nation tour from earlier that year? Is there any info on that? (besides whats on the wiki, obviously.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    How aboot the Alternative Nation tour from earlier that year? Is there any info on that? (besides whats on the wiki, obviously.)
    There's a video of one of the shows available. IIRC, it was released on some volume of eatyourblud's Live Essentials DVDs

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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    There's a video of one of the shows available. IIRC, it was released on some volume of eatyourblud's Live Essentials DVDs
    Cant seem to find it on the youtube, does anybody have it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    Cant seem to find it on the youtube, does anybody have it?
    It was up on seven1963.org but the site has been down since october this year.

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    I lot of press on Tapeworm.... just sayin'. (Fingers crossed!)

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    Someone needs to do an oral history of Tapeworm already. Get everyone on the record, then post the damn thing and be done with it once and for all.

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    I dont know if a comprehensive history is even possible. Ive read varying accounts of who contributed what and I remember someone (Anselmo?) saying some of their work ended up on a Marilyn Manson album. If the project existed as nothing more than loops and ideas for almost a decade, doing a thorough autopsy of everything that was recorded for it and where any of that material may have surfaced or may not have, would be a Herculean task. If it was so great, wed have heard it. Maybe for the best it stays under wraps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRoswell View Post
    Someone needs to do an oral history of Tapeworm already. Get everyone on the record, then post the damn thing and be done with it once and for all.
    That’s one of the better ideas I’ve heard! It’s not that I’m not curious; it’s just that I don’t think this is the big deal everyone wants it to be. I’ve collaborated with people on things before. If I don’t find a way to use the results of things that fizzled, it’s because it’s largely only “precious” to me and usually very unfinished. I don’t think any of Tapeworm is a Woman in the Window situation.

    Just an article-length oral history. I don’t even care about hearing any “vault” music; I don’t need any of the participants to deprioritize current work and return to remastering 25-year-old half-assed demos. I’d just take an oral history and accompanying playlist of songs that descended from the project—“Vacant,” “Potions,” &c.

    Actually, what is the list of those songs? Including, I guess, “Starfuckers.”

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