Marilyn Manson

[ManBurning]

[/I]

You know, I thought this was a weird statement when you made it before, because why bother trying to predict something like that. Then you said this and I was like, "Oh. Yeah. Absolutely, he'll do this."

Yeah, up until they made that counter-point about the "15" thing, I didn't think too much into it either. At first, I thought it was a random number just pulled out of thin air, and then it makes more sense now remembering it's his favorite number.

God, I'm bored. I'm talking about Marilyn Manson on a web forum at 2:16am. What year is this?

[Einzige]

His whole career has been foreshadowing that number. It was prominent on MA and again on THEOL. It'd kill his legacy if he didn't end his career on his fifteenth record. Antichrist Superstar came from the future, after all.

Now, knowing how lazy Manson can be, I recommend making one of them a double album. That would only require three more recording/touring sessions, and I'm sure he has that left in him. Fuck, I'm pretty sure he could get Trent on board with him for the finale if he went to him with the idea. I'm a strong advocate of the glammy Marilyn/clammy Manson double album as a career finale.

[eachpassingphase]

INCOMING HERETICAL OPINIONS ALERT

Manson did his best work- MA thru and including EMDM - without Trent. Manson by no means requires Trent to work.

What he does need is a musical right-hand man who he respects enough to keep him focused.

Mechanical Animals, for me, is Manson at his absolute best. I was in junior high and newly into rock music when it came out, so I was VERY skeptical of his new image and sound because I wanted to look like a little hardass all the time, but MA hooked me immediately anyway.

His lyrical wordplay is clever without being too cheesy and try-hard. The songs are catchy without sounding cheap or shallow. His voice sounds fantastic, and he manages to hit all the right emotional notes with it. There are no skips for me on that album. I love Trent's work on Antichrist, but I'm glad that he didn't end up producing MA. I wouldn't want anything on that album to change.

HW is fantastic, but too long IMO. GAOG is enjoyable, but it's also where the wheels start to fall off a little for me. I think it's the first time I realized that Manson can be very, very cheesy if left to his own devices, and that's a hard thing for me to overlook unless the music is just an absolute ten. So you are right, he needs somebody who has good taste, that he respects, who can push back on those impulses.

[ManBurning]

Mechanical Animals, for me, is Manson at his absolute best. I was in junior high and newly into rock music when it came out, so I was VERY skeptical of his new image and sound because I wanted to look like a little hardass all the time, but MA hooked me immediately anyway.

MA is my favourite record as well. My biggest regret is selling off my signed copy of that. Got it signed by the Holy-Wood lineup in 2000 at a Much Music meet and greet. flash forward a few years (around GOAG) I was going through an anti-Manson phase and sold all my stuff, including my signed copy of that record. Kind of regret that.

Also sold a t-shirt that John and Twiggy signed after walking into them on the side of the road.

Actually, here... I went out of my way to fish up the photo. This was from November 2000 during the Holy Wood release tour. Damn... this photo is just a couple months shy of being 20 years old. I feel old!

[SM Rollinger]

Kick ass @ManBurning , you look just like I did in 2000

[paul_guyet]

I've always wanted him to fully embrace the goth shit and get a violinist on-board for a record. He toured with Rasputina once; dark, medieval music isn't necessarily outside of his wheelhouse.

Always wanted a dark wave Manson album, too, ala.Ego Likeness or Blutengel. Hell, grab his good friend Billy Corgan, lock them in a room with the Adore record and see what develops from there.

If he cuts back on the alcohol, I'd suggest that he has a good decade of musical longevity left. I don't see a reason he can't become kind of a King Diamond-like figure, telling spooky fables through music.

Finally, I think his fifteenth record should be his last (WAC will be his eleventh LP). Marilyn Manson, a double album. The first half, Marilyn should be Mechanical Animals-esque, full of ballads, acoustic work, and synths, and should be produced by Billy Corgan. The second half, Manson, would be full of ACSS-style bangers and creepy noise interludes, and produced by Trent Reznor. Full circle. Maybe even close on the boat ride chant from Willy Wonka.

Hey, a boy can dream

Unless he makes some changes, Manson's not going to make it to a fifteenth album.

Also, since we're all doing it, here's my hot take.

Best to Worst
Antichrist Superstar
Portrait of an American Family
Mechanical Animals
Golden Age of Grotesque
Holy Wood
Heaven Upside Down
Smells Like Children
The High End of Low
Born Villain
The Pale Emperor
Eat Me, Drink Me

I reviewed music for a while and, after GOAG, starting with Eat Me, I began described my fandom of Manson as being in an abusive relationship. He releases some ridiculous hype about his new "world-changing/genre-redefining/earth-shattering" new album and tells us to "prepare/pray to our gods?lock up our daughters" and I think "dude made some good stuff once, so I know what he's capable...maybe THIS time...". Then: wet shit. A few years go by and the process repeats itself. I liked a lot of HUD. As for WAC, I think this is a new direction for him, at least for a lead single, and I'm looking forward and hoping for something interesting.

P.S. I saw Rasputina and Helmet open for Manson in 1997 in Florida. God damn.

[rampface]

Mechanical Animals
Antichrist Superstar
Holy Wood
Portrait of an American Family
Smells Like Children
Eat Me, Drink Me
The Golden Age of Grotesque
The Pale Emperor
The High End of Low
Heaven Upside Down

.................................................................................................... ...................................................................

born villain

[Einzige]

Holy Wood (In The Shadow Of The Valley Of Death)
Eat Me, Drink Me
Mechanical Animals
The Pale Emperor
Antichrist Superstar
Heaven Upside Down
Portrait Of An American Family
The Golden Age Of Grotesque
Born Villain
The High End Of Low

EMDM is massively underrated. The title track is one of the best things to come out of dark alternative/rock/"gothic"/whatever music altogether.

HW should merit Manson entry into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Best album of the 1990-2000 decade, imo. Yes, it's bloated, but it kind of needed to be to achieve its purpose.

[bobbie solo]

Surprised to see some negative opinions about "Portrait" around here...

consider the source.

[dlb]

@ManBurning : Love that photo! Great 90s vibes!

I can't really rank my Manson records and like many I can't really be bothered by him anymore, but something about Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood was so goddamn amazing to me and still is, that I still give a shit about that guy.

After not having seen a show of his in 8 years, I'd even be willing to do so again, if for once he can keep up the momentum. He's had a few good shows in recent memories, but what is it, that he can't keep it straight? Is really no one interested in him being healthy and delivering a solid show? It must be tedious for everyone involved, especially those who share the stage with him. But then again, it's the name that sells the tickets and not the performance these days...

[Krazy]

This was from November 2000 during the Holy Wood release tour. Damn... this photo is just a couple months shy of being 20 years old. I feel old!

2000/2020 during/current photo of ManBurning update needed.

[devils_voice] Do IT!!! [/devils_voice]

[ManBurning]

2000/2020 during/current photo of ManBurning update needed.

[devils_voice] Do IT!!! [/devils_voice]

Too bad I can't go knock on John5's door and be like "hey, we need to re-create this photo from 20 years ago"

[Einzige]

The writing and production on The High End Of Low is just awful. The production on Born Villain is even worse, but the writing is mostly better (except for "Slo-Mo-Tion". I hate that stupid studio applause breakdown. Also, "Breaking The Same Old Ground" is some cheesy sub-ICP shit. That record would have been much better if it just ended at the title track.)

But really, we're in the darkest Manson timeline. On the main space-time drag Manson released a heavily electronic 'Celebritarian'-themed record circa 2005, refrained from cheating on his wife, and retained (most of) his personal and artistic dignity before dying in a bus accident outside Ontario, Canada.

[thefragile_jake]

I always thought Marilyn Manson was okay. Like any Nine Inch Nails fan growing up, you're almost kind of accustomed to check out Manson's work in some form or fashion because of the connection to Trent ... but I never really got into his stuff. Out of everything, I know I like Mechanical Animals the best and have listened to Family, Holy Wood and Superstar from time to time. Honestly, if I think about it—I probably have listened to Lest We Forget the most out of anything he's released.

Anywho, this talk of a new album made me realize I haven't kept up with anything since Grotesque. Thought I'd catch up over the weekend and listen to GAOG for the first time in nearly 20 years and I had to turn it off after the fifth or sixth song. God damn is that album ass. Everything is so obvious, about face and for someone who is as into "art" as he is—it's just overly sleek sounding radio industrial butt rock.

Does anything get better post-GAOG? I feel like Pale Emperor is probably more up my alley based on my tastes, but based on some comments here ... seems like a lost cause.

[imail724]

I always thought Marilyn Manson was okay. Like any Nine Inch Nails fan growing up, you're almost kind of accustomed to check out Manson's work in some form or fashion because of the connection to Trent ... but I never really got into his stuff. Out of everything, I know I like Mechanical Animals the best and have listened to Family, Holy Wood and Superstar from time to time. Honestly, if I think about it—I probably have listened to Lest We Forget the most out of anything he's released.

Anywho, this talk of a new album made me realize I haven't kept up with anything since Grotesque. Thought I'd catch up over the weekend and listen to GAOG for the first time in nearly 20 years and I had to turn it off after the fifth or sixth song. God damn is that album ass. Everything is so obvious, about face and for someone who is as into "art" as he is—it's just overly sleek, sounding radio industrial butt rock.

Does anything get better post-GAOG? I feel like Pale Emperor is probably more up my alley based on my tastes, but based on some comments here ... seems like a lost cause.

Definitely give The Pale Emperor a shot. After that you've heard everything that'sreally ​worth hearing.

[Shadaloo]

I gotta see if I can extract the uncensored bit from the lo-fi version of Blank And White that's out there and splice it into a flac for optimal quality or something.

So a certain someone hereabouts was kind enough to point me towards the myspace grab that's been floating around out there forever - thank you!

I finally went ahead and did this since I had an afternoon to spare. For my first time putzing around with an actual song in Audacity, I think it went pretty damn well...dare I say, nearly perfect.

I exported a flac of my album rip to WAV, isolated the censoring sound effect over the "kill the president" line, removed it with a 1db loss, layered only the uncensored segment from the mp3 over, mixed the whole thing down to WAV, then to flac.

If anyone is interested, PM me. Don''t think it's against the rules since it counts as a fan mix? *cough*

This should be the most non-potato sounding quality uncensored version available unless someone can get ahold of the promo which apparently has it unmolested

[HWB]

I always thought Marilyn Manson was okay. Like any Nine Inch Nails fan growing up, you're almost kind of accustomed to check out Manson's work in some form or fashion because of the connection to Trent ... but I never really got into his stuff. Out of everything, I know I like Mechanical Animals the best and have listened to Family, Holy Wood and Superstar from time to time. Honestly, if I think about it—I probably have listened to Lest We Forget the most out of anything he's released.

Anywho, this talk of a new album made me realize I haven't kept up with anything since Grotesque. Thought I'd catch up over the weekend and listen to GAOG for the first time in nearly 20 years and I had to turn it off after the fifth or sixth song. God damn is that album ass. Everything is so obvious, about face and for someone who is as into "art" as he is—it's just overly sleek sounding radio industrial butt rock.

Does anything get better post-GAOG? I feel like Pale Emperor is probably more up my alley based on my tastes, but based on some comments here ... seems like a lost cause.

Ignoring Pale Emperor Golden Age Of Grotesque is one of his "better" albums post Holy Wood, hell, if you ignore Pale Emperor it's probably the best one...





Check out Pale Emperor indeed, amazing album, dunno how it happened.

[kaydraven]

I have no idea how I would rank Manson's albums, but I'm in the minority that likes EMDM and Born Villain even though they're not amazing. They're good for what they are, whereas I could never get into HEOL.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

"Sleek sounding radio industrial butt rock" is the best description I have heard of TGAOG...I always felt that was a boring mainstream Manson party album. Seemed like he was trying to recreate "Fight Song" on every track on that record

[firewlker]

"Sleek sounding radio industrial butt rock" is the best description I have heard of TGAOG...I always felt that was a boring mainstream Manson party album. Seemed like he was trying to recreate "Fight Song" on every track on that record

The vocals and guitars from TGAOG are the thin line that: without it would be a nice electronic album that I would love to hear in some european club at 2:30AM, but with it sounds like one of those average bands trying to emulate Marilyn Manson music.

[Jinsai]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyeurs_(album)

the problems with that album aren’t in production, it’s just dull songwriting

[Space Suicide]

the problems with that album aren’t in production, it’s just dull songwriting

Yeah, for having two such awesome musicians it falls dangerously flat. A real shame.

[think i'm a fire engine]

Ha! What a loaded question for this room. It's literally a topic of perpetual argument. But coming from outside the fandom, I think you might find some surprises. Pale Emperor, definitely. But the contentious pick that I think a relative layperson might be into is Eat Me, Drink Me. It's consistently the most hated album by fans and I think that fact has less to do with the LP itself and more to do with the expectations of the fandom. It's a more traditional rock record than it is Manson doing his schtick; actually, I'd say it's more like a Skold solo project with Manson on vocals. As long as you're not beholden to the Manson Cult of Personality, it's delightful and fun. Although the opening track is a little more on-the-nose-goth than is healthy. "Putting Holes in Happiness" through "Evidence" is pretty excellent rock, and the title track is wonderfully cinematic.

A person on the internet I agree with? That's so weird.

[ManBurning]

I don't know if anyone caught Anthony Fantano's (theneedledrop) review of the track from last Sunday's video. I actually quite enjoy him as a reviewer. If I recall his story correctly, he's actually a longtime fan who was about as disenchanted with post-Holy Wood as most old school heads have been. He gave Born Villain a 3/10, Pale Emperor a 6/10, and Heaven a 5/10, for context, and says a lot of positive things in the full-length review of each LP. But he sure didn't feel "We Are Chaos," and the less than five seconds it got in a nineteen-minute video made me chuckle.

"We have this new Marilyn Manson track, 'We Are Chaos'—which does not sound all that chaotic. It actually just kinda sounds like Marilyn Manson embracing some overblown, like, mid- to late-2000s-era indie rock aesthetics. I have no clue why. It does not fit him or complement him at all. Let's keep this moving."

Yeah, I was disappointed with his "review". I was really looking forward to his thoughts on that song, and he spent less than 30 seconds saying anything about it. *shrugs*
Hopefully he gives the album more time in the spotlight than he did the single.

[firewlker]

Yeah, I was disappointed with his "review". I was really looking forward to his thoughts on that song, and he spent less than 30 seconds saying anything about it. *shrugs*
Hopefully he gives the album more time in the spotlight than he did the single.

Well, considering that was a song whom: who loved has a lot to talk about and who hasn't enjoyed it doesn't have much to talk besides "not ok" (which was me and probably Fantano too).

[ManBurning]

Well, considering that was a song whom: who loved has a lot to talk about and who hasn't enjoyed it doesn't have much to talk besides "not ok" (which was me and probably Fantano too).

I donno, I personally think it's a really good track. It has a very unique sound for Manson. It really grew on me.

[Space Suicide]

Yeah, I was disappointed with his "review". I was really looking forward to his thoughts on that song, and he spent less than 30 seconds saying anything about it. *shrugs*
Hopefully he gives the album more time in the spotlight than he did the single.

I'm sure he'll give the LP a full-length. Even though his viewership has never exactly been clamoring for Manson, he's done full reviews since he got established. I was pretty amused when I saw what he'd said because, to be honest, by the time I saw he'd commented, I'd straight up forgotten there even was a new track. Guess I was right, at least as far as my own brain was concerned, about this one lacking any real sticking power.

Gotta review the 94th generic soundcloud rapper Lil ________________ instead.

[firewlker]

I donno, I personally think it's a really good track. It has a very unique sound for Manson. It really grew on me.

I don't know bro... It's not that I want MM to do another ACSS kind of stuff, I really love his slow paced stuff (The Speed Of Pain stills makes me cry a lot) but that released track wasn't for me, I really don't know. As I said, I hope the new album is really gonna be good but that single was awful at least to me.

[Shadaloo]

Does anything get better post-GAOG? I feel like Pale Emperor is probably more up my alley based on my tastes, but based on some comments here ... seems like a lost cause.

Might be an unpopular opinion, but in all honesty, with the passage of time, looking back I reeeeeeally think GOAG is one of the weaker efforts. A lot of people dropped off at Eat Me, Drink Me but I distinctly remember GOAG coming out and going "Huh...that was okay, I guess."

It was the first real red flag. I don't think anyone hated it at the time, but there was a definite common sentiment of "This isn't anywhere as good as the Manson releases always are." It definitely felt like a vision with no real concept, nothing beneath the surface of Weimar Mickey Mouse. For the first, time, it felt like the shock imagery had no thought behind it. No actual concept to speak of.

I might actually rate EMDM above it by a small margin these days. Hot Topic aesthetics aside, it was the personal album he needed to make.

And I'll defend most of THEOL to my last breath. That album is the actual requiem for Manson's world-challenging Antichrist/Tryptich persona as far as I'm concerned, and despite utter shite like Unkillable Monster, IMO that album hits higher highs than anything he'd done since Holy Wood or would until Pale Emperor.

I don't have much to say about Born Villain except
A) I think this is the one that was actually marred by drug and alcohol abuse as well as a general lack of interest from any party involved and
B) If anyone has an LP and is willing to part with it at a reasonable price, let me know because I feel an urge to get Manson LPs these days and it already seems to be fetching upwards of 70 bucks on Discogs and I'm not fucking paying that for that album, are you insane

[ManBurning]

Best/Worst
01. "Organ Grinder" / "Cyclops"
02. "Dried Up, Tied, & Dead to the World" / "Wormboy"
03. "Great Big White World"/ "I Want to Disappear"
04. "Count to Six & Die" / "Coma Black"
05. "Doll-Dagga Buzz-Buzz Ziggety-Zag" / "Better of Two Evils"
06. "Evidence" / "You & Me & the Devil Makes Three"
07. "15" / "Unkillable Monster"
08. "Born Villain" / "Pistol Whipped"
09. "Third Day of a Seven-Day Binge" / "Deep Six"
10. "Saturnalia" / "Je$us Cri$i$"

______________BEST_______________|____________WORS T_____________
POAAF - ________Lunchbox______________|___________My Monkey______________
ACSS - ______Mister Superstar___________|____________Wormboy_______________
MA - _______Mechanical Animals _________|___________User Friendly_____________
HW - __________Coma Black_____________|_______Count To six and Die___________
GAOG - _________Vodevil_______________ |______Golden age of Grotesque_________
EMDM - _____Eat Me, Drink Me___________|________ Are You the Rabbit?__________
THEOL - _______Blank & White___________|_____________ WOW_________________
BV -______Breaking the same old Ground___|____ Murderers are Getting blah blah blah
TPE - ____Mephistopheles of Los Angeles__ |______ Slave Only Dreams to be King____
HUD - _______Threats of Romance________|___________ Je$u$ Cri$i$______________


NOTES:
That was harder than it looks. I had to load up some of these albums on YouTube and listen to a few songs to make my final selections.
Some albums were easy and some were damn near impossible.

-For instance, picking a worst song off of Heaven Upside Down was hard Because there are like 7 of them that are horrible lol.
-I struggled w/ worst pick for EMDM because I hate 4 songs all equally on that record. (I even originally listed 3, but forgot the rules and I think I was breaking them by having a "tie")
-From this exercise I have realized his worst record is hands down Heaven Upside Down, with EMDM in a very close second. (In my opinion anyway)
-struggled w/ best pick for ACSS. It was a tie between 3 tracks.
-Born Villain actually has some decent stuff on it, it gets trashed on a lot and I don't understand why.
-Struggled with "best" pick for Pale Emperor. There are surprisingly a LOT of really solid tracks on there.
-The rest were pretty easy.

ALSO:

04. "Count to Six & Die" / "Coma Black"

That was a complete fluke... I didn't even fully read your picks before listing mine, lol. Hilarious though. We have our picks on that record reversed.