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Thread: Marilyn Manson

  1. #3361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post

    Out of curiosity, if you had to name the next most salvageable songs off of Grotesque, would they be the other straightforward electro-rock songs? "(m)OBSCENE," "Use Your Fist," and "(s)AINT"?
    Just looking at the tracklist quickly, the only other salvageable songs would be "Use your fist" and "(s)AINT". But I tried listening to slutgarden just now to check how that one went, and had to turn that rubbish off as fast as I could. The more I look at this tracklist, the more I despise this record, lol.

    However, with that said... I do really like the Sauerkraut remix a lot... This is Rammstein right? That would explain why, haha.
    I like this version better than the original.

    Last edited by ManBurning; 08-14-2020 at 01:54 AM.

  2. #3362
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    If I had to take all the best songs from GOAG to Heaven Upside down to make the ultimate Manson LP of those eras this is what I would pick:
    Let's go with 15 tracks, because that seems to be the theme with Manson here, so why not.

    In no particular order. These are my favorite Manson songs "Post Holywood" that would make one hell of an LP.

    1. Vodevil
    2. Mutilation is the most...
    3. You me and the Devil
    4. EMDM
    5. Wight spider
    6. Blank and white
    7. Running to the edge of the world
    8. Overneath the path...
    9. Flowers of evil
    10. Breaking the same old ground
    11. Third day of a 7 day...
    12. Mephistopheles of LA
    13. Cupid carries a Gun
    14. Odds of even
    15. Threats of romance
    Last edited by ManBurning; 08-14-2020 at 02:28 AM.

  3. #3363
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    GAOG is the album where I checked out. I'd found Holywood fun, if somewhat bland and unsatisfying, musically, and not nearly as thoughtful as it purported to be. But I respected the fact that the band, and Manson in particular, where trying to say something by way of response to their being unfairly associated with Columbine, and the live show was superb. But with GAOG I found the music even blander, and Manson's attempts at profundity even less convincing than they'd been on Holywood. For me, it crystallised my impression of him as a confused and shallow thinker, who obviously - and somewhat gratingly - believed otherwise. I still enjoy ACSS though, and maybe half of Portrait (which is mostly down to Daisy - I love the way he played). I loved MA at the time but it's aged badly for me. I guess Manson works best for me as a Nine Inch Nails side project.

  4. #3364
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    I don't think Manson was trying to be 'profound' on GAOG.

  5. #3365
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    Perhaps the wrong word to use then - it's so long since I played the album. But - as I recall, more from the interviews he gave around it - he seemed to be trying to say something.

    -edit-

    Thinking more about it, perhaps the best thing to say is that he seemed to be trying to produce a piece of clever art, and this is where it failed for me.
    Last edited by Tom; 08-14-2020 at 04:03 AM.

  6. #3366
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    I like this best/worst game:

    - Portrait Of An American Family: "Misery Machine" / "Sweet Tooth"
    - Antichrist Superstar: "Man that you Fear" / "Kinderfeld"
    - Mechanical Animals: "Coma White" / "I Want to Dissapear"
    - Holy Wood: Target Audience" / "Lamb of God"
    - The Golden Age Of Grotesque: "Spade" / "Slutgarden"
    - Eat Me, Drink Me: The whole album sucks
    - The High End Of Low: "We're from America" / "WOW"
    - Born Villain: "The Gardener" / "Disengaged"
    - The Pale Emperor: "The Devil Beneath my feet" / "Slave only dreams to be king"
    - Heaven Upside Down: "Saturnalia" / Tattooed in Reverse"

  7. #3367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    I think I read somewhere that a pre-Sneaker Pimps version of "Long Hard Road" was originally an Antichrist tune as well. I know the Sneaker Pimps had nothing to do with it.
    fwiw I don't think they had much to do with the final product, either? At least they wanted their name off it and each had disparaging things to say about one another after the fact.

    http://www.mtv.com/news/1431779/marilyn-manson-is-no-friend-of-the-sneaker-pimps/

    http://www.mtv.com/news/1431778/marilyn-manson-sneaker-pimps-very-confused-individuals/
    Last edited by halo eighteen; 08-14-2020 at 11:40 AM.

  8. #3368
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    Oh! best and worst

    Portrait of an American Family

    Best: Cyclops
    Worst: Sweet Tooth

    Antichrist Superstar
    Best: 1996
    Worst: The Beautiful People

    Mechanical Animals
    Best: Mechanical Animals
    Worst: Dissociative

    Holy Wood
    Best: President Dead
    Worst: Lamb of God

    The Golden Age of Grotesque
    Best:
    Worst: This Is the New Shit

    Eat Me, Drink Me
    Best: Putting Holes in Happiness
    Worst: You Me and the Devil Makes 3

    The High End of Low
    Best: Pretty as a Swastika
    Worst:
    Arma-goddamn-motherfuckin-geddon

    Born Villain
    Best: Hey, Cruel World...
    Worst: Pistol Whipped

    The Pale Emperor
    Best: Cupid Carries a Gun
    Worst: Deep Six

    Heaven Upside Down
    Best: Heaven Upside Down
    Worst: Jesus Crisis

  9. #3369
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryeatscereal View Post

    - Eat Me, Drink Me: The whole album sucks
    Oh shit, son!

    You just broke @Sesquipedalism 's #1 rule... He's gonna be laying the smack down on you tonight!

  10. #3370
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.parente View Post
    Mechanical Animals
    Best: Mechanical Animals
    Worst: Dissociative

    Holy Wood
    Best: President Dead
    Worst: Lamb of God

    The Golden Age of Grotesque
    Best: ♠
    Worst: This Is the New Shit
    you forgot the "ass" in "disassociative" and also you're an "ass" because that song is amazing, but i agree that mechanical animals is the best.

    president dead? yes plz. but lamb of god? that can't be worse than the bullshit ripoff of "reptile" that is "cruci-fiction in space" can it?

    100% agreed on both your picks for GOAG though.

  11. #3371
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    you forgot the "ass" in "disassociative" and also you're an "ass" because that song is amazing, but i agree that mechanical animals is the best.

    president dead? yes plz. but lamb of god? that can't be worse than the bullshit ripoff of "reptile" that is "cruci-fiction in space" can it?

    100% agreed on both your picks for GOAG though.
    To be fair I think MA is a masterpiece from start to finish and removing any track off that album should come with jail time lol

    And I love president dead so much.

  12. #3372
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    I agree, Dissociative has to go. It slows down the album too much. Fundamentally Loathsome is epic. A shame they never played it live.


    Anyone remember this?


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    I love Disassociative, it's definitely not the best song on the album or his best slow balad type track but something about the opening guitar part, the haunting lyrical imagery especially the "dead astronaut in spaaaaAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAACCCCEEEE" line gets me.

    Its better than Speed of Pain, even though I like that song for the somewhat try to hard to be a drugged out trippy love ballad that is is
    Last edited by AndItKeepsRepeating; 08-14-2020 at 04:34 PM.

  14. #3374
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    Oh shit, son!

    You just broke @Sesquipedalism's #1 rule... He's gonna be laying the smack down on you tonight!
    Sorry @Sesquipedalism , can't get into it, but...

    Last edited by henryeatscereal; 08-14-2020 at 04:48 PM.

  15. #3375
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    "Disassociative" is one of my favorite Manson songs. I'm shocked at it being considered the "worst" song on Mechanical Animals. Speaking of that album, I have it on now and as I look at the tracklist, I don't think there's a single song I dislike on this. A masterpiece indeed!

  16. #3376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    And for continuity and fun...

    Nah
    You & Me & the Devil Makes Three

    Heck, Yeah!
    Mutilation Is the Most Sincere form of Flattery
    Are You the Rabbit?
    If I Was Your Vampire
    Eat Me, Drink Me

    Yes, Please!
    They Said That Hell's Not Hot
    Just A Car Crash Away
    Heart-Shaped Glasses
    The Red Carpet Grave
    Putting Holes in Happiness
    Evidence
    I mean, at this point... this is not going to come to you as a shock, but your "Nah" and "Heck, Yeah"'s are the songs I gravitate to more on this record, while I'll pass on your "Yes Please's"
    and... how on earth do you like Heart shaped glasses? You seem like a pipe and robe, reading a book in front of the fire place, very sophisticated person... what in the world do you see in that song? lol.
    Almost seems a tad too immature/childish for you. You generally seem to like the more serious songs. Songs that make you think and have a deeper meaning that have a lot of lyrical genius to devour.

    Heart shaped glasses, for me, might very well be one of the worst songs he's ever written. It's definitely in the top 10.

    Now interestingly enough, regarding the "Alice in Wonderland" comparisons made, I have a very strange attraction to AIW for some reason. Especially American's Mcgee's twisted version of Alice.
    I am totally immersed in the world. Could be why I am drawn to the song "Eat Me, Drink Me" (Best song on the record! One of the best song's he's ever written. Absolutely fantastic way to end the record).
    Anyone remember when Manson was in the running to make a movie based on American Mcgee's Alice in the mid 2000s? I remember something about that... That project just kind of faded into oblivion. I think that project ended up becoming the live version of AIW with Depp that we ended up getting eventually... But I can't help but think if we got an actual twisted/gothic/dark version of Alice with Manson as the mad hatter, and how awesome that would have been.

    Between EMDM and GOAG, I would oddly enough choose EMDM, even though there are some real stinkers on here (Rabbit, car crash, glasses, hell is not hot), I do find the songs that I like more interesting on EMDM. Which is quite fascinating, since... I am more of an industrial guy. Never been much into gothic romance music. So, theoretically, it should be the other way around... earlier someone made a comparison to all Manson records.... MA was his Bowie record, Golden age is his KMFDM record etc... and, when you think about it... that's kind of correct. Golden age was heavily, and I mean, heavily influenced by electronic music. I am assuming that comes from picking up Skold at that point (Or was Skold not part of the writing process of that record?? I could google this, but I am lazy)

    I know Skold was heavily involved w/ the writing process of EMDM, and I am actually a HUGE fan of Skold's solo work, and his work in KMFDM. So, you would assume I would enjoy Golden age much more than Eat Me. But I don't, for whatever reason that is.
    Last edited by ManBurning; 08-15-2020 at 01:16 AM.

  17. #3377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    Yeah, this is unsurprising to a degree. Though I thought maybe Sköld's guitar work would save some of the A-side numbers for you.
    Actually, you aren't totally wrong with that. I do really enjoy his work on Red Carpet Grave and putting Holes in Happiness.
    You just add Manson's vocals and lyrics in the mix on this record, and I lose interest.

    Fun Fact: The Eat me, Drink Me instrumentals versions are on YouTube. Listening to them right now as I type this. The record becomes much more enjoyable with the absence of Manson.
    Which is funny, because normally his singing/lyrics are my favourite parts of his songs. But EMDM is much more tolerable as an instrument album, for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post

    Tim Sköld has a composer credit on almost every track on the album. Exceptions are "(m)OBSCENE," "Use Your Fist," "Golden Age," "Spade," and "Bright Young Things." Interestingly to me (because I did not know or expect this), John 5 is the primary composer of the record.
    This doesn't shock, or come to me in a surprise in any way. As the same thing happened with Mechanical Animals and Zim Zum. Zim was the primary songwriter through out most of the record, and then 5 stepped in and finished up some parts after they axed Zim. Which, was probably the biggest mistake Manson made. I don't hear a lot of praise for Zim Zum usually (It's usually Daisy, Twiggy or John 5), But to me: Zim Zum was the shit. I'm a huge ZZ fan, followed him after his departure in Manson, and he went on to make some amazing stuff (Pleistoscene, The Pop culture suicides), it's a real shame he gave up on music. His other projects never really took off, but I feel like pop culture suicides was way ahead of it's time. Very futuristic sounding harsh electro-thrash music. Zim is heavily, heavily influenced by classic glam rock bands and I have a feeling a lot of the direction on Mechanical Animals was his doing. Real shame he was never part of the MA tour lineup. Would have been neat to see Zim all glammed up like the rest of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post

    Sköld wasn't "heavily involved" in the writing process for this record, he was the writing process for this record. He wrote all of it; Manson added words. And it surprised me a little at the time as well because I love Sköld's solo work, I even like some of what he did with KMFDM (who I don't really care for). But this record sounds nothing like Sköld I'm familiar with. It's pretty impressive to me that he can work in such different idioms with equally pleasing results.
    This is probably why I can tolerate the record more without the words. I'm still listening to the instrumental versions as I type this, and I am on "car crash" and this song is BANGING without words. Like, it's really clicking now. But you throw Manson's words in there, and I lose interest. Interesting how much a song can change when you add or remove the words.

    You're right. The SKOLD you are familiar with is very electronic based. These songs are... I can't put a genre on them... goth rock? Tad bluesy? But you're right, far from what you would associate Skold with. But, not surprising. He has a lot of glam rock roots to him as well. He was in a band called "Shotgun Messiah" which is probably the strangest part of his resume when you think about what he's done. But, everyone needs to start somewhere, right Trent? (Slam Bamboo)

    EDIT: Interestingly enough, I just want to throw this out there... I'm finishing up the record "Instrumentally" and I am on "You, Me and the Devil Makes 3" and this song sounds like absolute TRASH without the lyrics. Very fascinating, because it's one of my favorite of the records in it's true form with the lyrics. Huh. Fascinating. I hate "Just a car crash away" with the lyrics, but found it more enjoyable musically, but have the opposite view with "Devil makes 3".
    Last edited by ManBurning; 08-15-2020 at 02:59 AM.

  18. #3378
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBurning View Post
    As the same thing happened with Mechanical Animals and Zim Zum. Zim was the primary songwriter through out most of the record, and then 5 stepped in and finished up some parts after they axed Zim. Which, was probably the biggest mistake Manson made. I don't hear a lot of praise for Zim Zum usually (It's usually Daisy, Twiggy or John 5), But to me: Zim Zum was the shit. I'm a huge ZZ fan, followed him after his departure in Manson, and he went on to make some amazing stuff (Pleistoscene, The Pop culture suicides), it's a real shame he gave up on music. His other projects never really took off, but I feel like pop culture suicides was way ahead of it's time. Very futuristic sounding harsh electro-thrash music. Zim is heavily, heavily influenced by classic glam rock bands and I have a feeling a lot of the direction on Mechanical Animals was his doing. Real shame he was never part of the MA tour lineup. Would have been neat to see Zim all glammed up like the rest of them.
    Correction: Twiggy was the primary songwriter, although yes, Zum also composed a lot. John 5 is not on that album, Twiggy himself played guitar on the rest. I remember Manson also being credited with guitar parts there but I also remember him saying he specifically asked Twiggy to teach him those parts.

  19. #3379
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillow View Post
    Correction: Twiggy was the primary songwriter, although yes, Zum also composed a lot. John 5 is not on that album, Twiggy himself played guitar on the rest. I remember Manson also being credited with guitar parts there but I also remember him saying he specifically asked Twiggy to teach him those parts.
    Yeah, just looking for the notes in the booklet now. You're right. No John 5 anywhere. My bad.
    Interestingly enough, Twiggy contributed to all songs except track 12, Fundementally Loathsome. Which was, Manson, Zim Zum and Gacy. But Zim still worked on 1, 3, 5, 6, 9, 11, 12 and 14. So, that's a good 8 songs. Little more than half.

  20. #3380
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    My YouTube video for my 2019.07.23 recording got struck down because it contained a small portion of the The End cover. I'm going to start using reddit to share my recordings, and I have decided this will be the first one.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/industrial_..._center_sioux/

    (Mega link is in the post, enjoy)

  21. #3381
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    Who in the world thought that a Vampire/SAY10 medley was a good idea?

  22. #3382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Who in the world thought that a Vampire/SAY10 medley was a good idea?
    Yeah if I wasn't taping it, that would have been the time for a bathroom break or to get a jumbo pretzel from concessions.

  23. #3383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Who in the world thought that a Vampire/SAY10 medley was a good idea?
    probably Brian

  24. #3384
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndItKeepsRepeating View Post
    probably Brian
    At least he is playing something written after GAOG, effort is there.

    I'd rather hear something like Warship my Wreck or Mestapholese of Los Angeles tho.

    Edit again: I'd even settle for something they HAVE played, like four rusted horses or deep six
    Last edited by SM Rollinger; 08-15-2020 at 04:41 PM.

  25. #3385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sesquipedalism View Post
    Why does he keep making the choice not to do this? Honest question. Is it laziness/drunkenness? Or do you think contemporary audiences would revolt?

    I haven't seen a Manson show in twenty years, so I don't know what the crowd is like now. I think a lot of a contemporary Nine Inch Nails crowd—though I guess I'm fucking seven years out on my assessment of "contemporary"—would be not only fine with the absence of "Head Like a Hole" and "The Hand That Feeds" and (maybe to a lesser extent) "Hurt," but possibly thrilled, especially if it meant there were more slots for other songs. Are Manson's current fans not like that? Bowie and Prince were pretty notorious for playing fan-indifferent shows and never failed to pack 'em in; on live recordings of shows by either of those which feature less than four minutes of old standards, you still hear people rabidly cheering them on.

    I guess what I'm getting at is: Is this an artistic decision, a required decision based on some sort of incapacity for performance, or a commercial decision? Has he ever said anything about it?
    Well, this show he was opening for Rob Zombie, so I understand only playing the hits. But it's like this at his solo shows too.

    Remember when he said he was going to do a run of shows with each night dedicated to a part of the tryptic? Yeah, that would require effort. I think we can chalk it up to laziness and alcohol addiction. Dude just phones it in every night.

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    I'd be fine just with the inclusion of "I Don't Like The Drugs". It was a single from arguably his biggest record and hasn't been performed since the tour for that record. And unlike his heavy material, I suspect he could still perform it pretty well.

  27. #3387
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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    At least he is playing something written after GAOG, effort is there.

    I'd rather hear something like Warship my Wreck or Mestapholese of Los Angeles tho.

    Edit again: I'd even settle for something they HAVE played, like four rusted horses or deep six
    This kind of reminds me of a point from earlier... someone said he never played fundamentally loathsome live ever and all the other tracks were played live and never understood why that one wasn't... that made me think about the song played to unplayed ratio on newer albums, and this kinda ties back to the comment you just made...

    Why does he not play songs from the new albums now that aren't singles? Like... a normal band, goes on tour to support a new record and will play a good chunk of the songs on the new record for that tour... I find it's complete opposite with Manson. They'll put the effort in to learn or play 2 songs, which are usually the singles from a new album... wtf?

    This is a trend I noticed, probably around born villain. The deep cuts on manson's records are probably some of his better songs. I wish his would play more newer songs on an album tour that aren't traditional singles.

  28. #3388
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    The start of every tour, seems like it's gonna be a fresh start, but quickly it becomes just the same old same old. Look at this setlist from the start of TPE tour, Slave and Mr Superstar only got played at this show


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    Yep! This decade most of the setlists have somewhere between 12-14 songs played. Also, to answer the question when did this trend of mostly playing hits and no deep cuts begin: it started after the Rape of the World tour. That's when the sets started to become shorter and he stuck with his most popular tracks and focused less on playing each new record save for a few songs here and there.
    Last edited by rampface; 08-15-2020 at 10:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SM Rollinger View Post
    The start of every tour, seems like it's gonna be a fresh start, but quickly it becomes just the same old same old. Look at this setlist from the start of TPE tour, Slave and Mr Superstar only got played at this show

    On paper, that seems like it would be a really great show!

    In reality, not so much.

    Still waiting for the day he plays the same song twice in 1 set, lol.
    Wonder if the crowd would notice...

    Quote Originally Posted by rampface View Post
    Yep! This decade most of the setlists have somewhere between 12-14 songs played. Also, to answer the question when did this trend of mostly playing hits and no deep cuts begin: it started after the Rape of the World tour. That's when the sets started to become shorter and he stuck with his most popular tracks and focused less on playing each new record save for a few songs here and there.
    Such a shame and a waste of talent in my eyes.
    Imagine if in an alternate universe, one where Manson got sober and took his craft serious and we got multi night "cold and black and infinite" tours with crazy setlists with albums played in full and deep cuts.
    Guy has so much potential and pissing it all away.

    Manson shows are like car crashes, you know you shouldn't be watching, but you have a strange, unexplained attraction to looking at them that you can't explain.
    Last edited by ManBurning; 08-16-2020 at 03:05 AM.

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