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Thread: Marilyn Manson

  1. #1111
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    I honestly don't have an Opinion on either person, but would suggest not to jump to conclusions. It doesn't look good right now but people (male and female) do lie or can stretch the truth.

    Hope it's not true but if it is he needs to face the consequences of what was done.

  2. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_Nicholas View Post
    Oh, fuck. I am now officially a terrible person for liking Jeordie White as a musician and as part of my favorite NIN band lineup because he did something during Antichrist Superstar era that's considered unforgivable, especially when not accepting the accuser's word by itself as absolute proof that he committed rape is considered to be the same as supporting rape. Manson himself was never exactly a saint, especially not during that era, so I guess that this proves that being a Manson fan automatically makes you a bad person. I'm not saying that what he did was okay; I'm saying that I'm really getting sick of how many seemingly okay people turn out to be unforgivable monsters, and you have to completely change your views on every aspect of their existence or else you're also a monster. I'm probably going to be flamed for being hesitant to pull a complete u-turn on all things Manson because of this, given that Manson's songs have helped me get through life, but each revelation of someone committing rape/assault/abuse/etc really does hurt a little when I wasn't already fully aware of it.
    People still like Roman polanski movies, and he sexually assaulted a 13 year old.

  3. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    I just found that to be disturbing. Especially what he did to that woman when she was just talking to Trent as he was so possessive. If NIN ever gets inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame. I hope he's not part of that group and not thanked. Fuck Jeordie.
    Does innocent until proven guilty just not exist anymore?

  4. #1114
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    Marilyn Manson

    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    Does innocent until proven guilty just not exist anymore?
    Yes it does. But at the same time, why would someone like her, who has no career, come out of nowhere with this?

    I feel like that was a different person she was encountering than the one of today. But it still doesn’t excuse what he did.

  5. #1115
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    Im not saying it does, but nothing is set in stone yet.

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    Im not saying it does, but nothing is set in stone yet.
    I just don’t want people throwing this into the whole Weinstein thing. That dude was a serial rapist, jeordie sounds like an abusive partner with behavior disorders in her post.

  7. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian View Post
    why would someone like [this person], who has no career, come out of nowhere with this?
    You just answered your own question. Money is a big motive for any allegations.

    We have no idea what happened other than someone posting allegations of possible abuse/rape.

  8. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
    You just answered your own question. Money is a big motive for any allegations.

    We have no idea what happened other than someone posting allegations of possible abuse/rape.
    Manson had no prior knowledge and I 100% believe it based upon her story details

  9. #1119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian View Post
    People still like Roman polanski movies, and he sexually assaulted a 13 year old.
    Yeah but he admitted what he did. Tried to do what was asked by the state of California but a fame-hungry judge fucked it all up and that's why he hasn't been in the U.S. He's apologized a million times for what he did and the woman forgave him. Isn't that enough?

  10. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    Yeah but he admitted what he did. Tried to do what was asked by the state of California but a fame-hungry judge fucked it all up and that's why he hasn't been in the U.S. He's apologized a million times for what he did and the woman forgave him. Isn't that enough?
    My point was that he did some shit in the past and people still like his art

    Now, if twiggy came forward and apologized, would you give him the same forgiveness you give Polański?

  11. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conan The Barbarian View Post
    My point was that he did some shit in the past and people still like his art

    Now, if twiggy came forward and apologized, would you give him the same forgiveness you give Polański?
    If it's sincere. Yeah. He just needs to own up what he did.

  12. #1122
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    Yeah but he admitted what he did. Tried to do what was asked by the state of California but a fame-hungry judge fucked it all up and that's why he hasn't been in the U.S. He's apologized a million times for what he did and the woman forgave him. Isn't that enough?

    No because he still raped a young girl. Fuck Roman Polanski and if any of this stuff is true then fuck Jeordie White and anyone who has enabled him.

  13. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoid99 View Post
    Yeah but he admitted what he did. Tried to do what was asked by the state of California but a fame-hungry judge fucked it all up and that's why he hasn't been in the U.S. He's apologized a million times for what he did and the woman forgave him. Isn't that enough?
    No. He sexually assaulted a 13 year old. Holy shit.

  14. #1124
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    Don't write shit off or rationalize. Listen to and believe women.

  15. #1125
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    Oh yeah because a woman has never lied before about rape, ammirite?

    Look, if he did it, he's a fucking scumbag. But so many people are ready to lynch him despite no over evidence or people corroborating her view of the events (yet)
    Last edited by Disassociative; 10-22-2017 at 11:15 PM. Reason: I stand by what I said. Just clarified what I meant they lie about. Everyone lies anyway.

  16. #1126
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    People didn't already know that he was a fucking scumbag? Okay.

  17. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryalex12 View Post
    Does innocent until proven guilty just not exist anymore?
    It exists in a court of law, and I can guarantee that he'll never be criminally charged (or at most, convicted) of anything outlined here. Had she stepped forward the day after the alleged rape, he might have. But for reasons that should be obvious to everyone here, speaking out immediately is not that simple, as much as I wish it was.

    Outside the courts, people form opinions based on patterns. Virtually every woman in the world has been the victim of some form of sexual abuse or assault at least once in her life, even if it's something as relatively "minor" as being catcalled (and make no mistake about it, I don't personally consider any form of sexual harassment to be minor). And a lot of drunk, drugged-out rock stars have done pretty vile things. So when you look at the context of the story, it's not hard to find yourself believing one person over another.

    I'm not saying I believe he's guilty. I'm not saying I think she's lying. I have no physical evidence to go on. But gun to my head, pick a side? Let's just say I don't find her story hard to believe.

  18. #1128
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    I'm glad he came forward to support her. He was probably coked off his skull during those years.

  19. #1129
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    hi, sexual assault survivor, here.

    i was raped when i was 15, and no one believed me. the most common response i got was "how can a girl rape a boy?" (i hadn't come out as trans, yet, because i hadn't figured it out, yet). there was so much rejection and disbelief surrounding me for such a long time every time i reached out for help that my brain tried to convince me it hadn't actually happened. until 8 years later when i ran into my rapist on the train, and then heard from her on facebook, when she (sort of) apologized to me. i finally had confirmation that it happened. but did her apology do anything for me other than that? no. you can't just apologize for something like that. sexual assault is one of the worst things you can perpetrate against another person; it removes all of their agency. partly because of all of that, i ended up in an abusive relationship for 4 years where i was treated like shit almost the entire time. i somehow believed i deserved it. and i was terrified to speak out about it because i didn't think anyone would believe me.

    so, imagine how it must feel for a woman who has been raped and abused by someone she's in a relationship with, who is somewhat in a position of power. how scary it would be to want to come forward with that information. it's the same reason people stay in abusive relationships for so long, and the same reason that so many sexual assaults go unreported, and the same reason that rape culture is so rampant in our society.

    stop defending rapists. start believing women.

  20. #1130
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    This is going to be nothing other then a shitstorm. Have fun. And it's not a fucking matter of 'stop defending rapists', its a matter of innocent til proven guilty and yes it's a awful situation for the woman. Of course it's so hard to prove something like that happened, especially when you wait for so long but as Jessicka and others outlined - having the nerve to start trying to tell people what happened to you is impossibly daunting. But I am not a fan of people going "TAKE THE WOMANS WORD AS GOSPEL THIS ABSOLUTELY HAPPENED 100%"

    Anyway I'm sure I pissed some people off saying that, which I understand.

  21. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by eversonpoe View Post
    hi, sexual assault survivor, here.

    i was raped when i was 15, and no one believed me. the most common response i got was "how can a girl rape a boy?" (i hadn't come out as trans, yet, because i hadn't figured it out, yet). there was so much rejection and disbelief surrounding me for such a long time every time i reached out for help that my brain tried to convince me it hadn't actually happened. until 8 years later when i ran into my rapist on the train, and then heard from her on facebook, when she (sort of) apologized to me. i finally had confirmation that it happened. but did her apology do anything for me other than that? no. you can't just apologize for something like that. sexual assault is one of the worst things you can perpetrate against another person; it removes all of their agency. partly because of all of that, i ended up in an abusive relationship for 4 years where i was treated like shit almost the entire time. i somehow believed i deserved it. and i was terrified to speak out about it because i didn't think anyone would believe me.

    so, imagine how it must feel for a woman who has been raped and abused by someone she's in a relationship with, who is somewhat in a position of power. how scary it would be to want to come forward with that information. it's the same reason people stay in abusive relationships for so long, and the same reason that so many sexual assaults go unreported, and the same reason that rape culture is so rampant in our society.

    stop defending rapists. start believing women.
    I am truly disgusted and sorry to hear of your experience. But no, I will not just start believing women (or men for that matter) when they cry 'rape', simply as a matter of course. We have a legal and judicial system in place for that very reason.

    I have heard of some horrendous cases where men have been accused of rape by women. They have been ostracized by the community at large, lost their jobs, family and have been verbally and physically assaulted in the street on near enough a daily basis. It has destroyed their lives and at the end of it all the allegations have been proved to be false. There is not blanket rule that can be applied to these cases - every one of them has to be individually assessed and judged on its own merit.

  22. #1132
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    Quote Originally Posted by xfilian View Post
    I am truly disgusted and sorry to hear of your experience. But no, I will not just start believing women (or men for that matter) when they cry 'rape', simply as a matter of course. We have a legal and judicial system in place for that very reason.

    I have heard of some horrendous cases where men have been accused of rape by women. They have been ostracized by the community at large, lost their jobs, family and have been verbally and physically assaulted in the street on near enough a daily basis. It has destroyed their lives and at the end of it all the allegations have been proved to be false. There is not blanket rule that can be applied to these cases - every one of them has to be individually assessed and judged on its own merit.
    THIS. THANK YOU. You expressed my thoughts much more clearly than I could.

  23. #1133
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    AAAAAND the ets alt.right rears its ugly head again.

    Why would Jessicka lie about this, give me a break.

    Manson (the guy and the band) has always had a rapey reputation, doesn't Manson (the guy) brag about humiliating groupies backstage in his book? Am I misremembering this? I met Jeordie once and he was a dick, and a friend of mine had a similar experience. Not surprised at this at all.

    I interviewed Ogre back in 2000 and he was talking about how the purpose of darkness in art was about finding a way out of the darkness, not using it to be a dick, and I think he was referring to Manson's shitty backstage practices involving humiliating women. I think it's pretty widespread in the rock scene, and I have heard cringeworthy stories about some of our favorite rock heroes. Maynard for example: I've heard he shows gross porn to young women backstage to make them uncomfortable. When I was backstage with APC there was a long line of attractive girls lead into a private room, which I was not allowed into.

  24. #1134
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    It is scary how just words without any proof to back them up can tarnish entire person's reputation and legacy in a matter of days.

    I am not defending rapists with this statement, there is no proof for her's story to be real, yes, sometimes, these are real. But many times people love to report false rapes, I am sorry, it happens, you cannot deny that, therefore, it is always best to come into these situations with caution. Until perhaps more people speak up, let Twiggy speak up as well, each story has millions of versions.

    I am not calling her a liar outright, nor Twiggy 100% a rapist. But jumping into conclusions in situations like these is not good for anyone.

    Blindly believing any serious accusations such as these is not safe as it can SERIOUSLY harm one's reputation forever.

    ´´

  25. #1135
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    AAAAAND the ets alt.right rears its ugly head again.
    Not wanting to call seomeone a rapist over a single Facebook post and having some hesitation and second guesses about the situation is not being an alt-righter.

  26. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    AAAAAND the ets alt.right rears its ugly head again.

    Why would Jessicka lie about this, give me a break.
    Pretty much. Just like anything else the past year or so, the people who do awful things know that just by the news of it coming out, there's still a chance that both sides will undoubtedly start arguing endlessly...and that hopefully it'll just fade away. See: pretty much anything else in 2017.

  27. #1137
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    You guys know that false rape claims are a tiny percentage, right?
    According to wikipedia, 2-10%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
    So Jessicka's story is 98-90% likely to be true.

  28. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    You guys know that false rape claims are a tiny percentage, right?
    According to wikipedia, 2-10%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
    So Jessicka's story is 98-90% likely to be true.
    "Due to varying definitions of a "false accusation", the true percentage remains unknown"

  29. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by HWB View Post
    "Due to varying definitions of a "false accusation", the true percentage remains unknown"
    And they're stats from 1996/1997...

  30. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by icklekitty View Post
    I'm glad he came forward to support her. He was probably coked off his skull during those years.
    as opposed to now? lol

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